Tubby vs. Cal - updated

[hotelblue]

cal will have a team without a small forward, then recruit several of them, trading off depth at positions that were adequate. so the one or two things you COULD count on the year before that didn’t need addressing goes absent as a trade off - filling holes while creating new ones almost unnecessarily.

it’s like he hears people say “we need this or that type-player” and makes an overstated point to fix it, always being at the expense of something else. like this year, after years of saying we need more shooting, he says “ok, here’s a great shooting class, but i’m then done coaching defense and you’ll see how even when you’re right you’re wrong”.

it’s strange to even notice it. i realize there was an exception with oscar, but man, do you see this? where he seems dancing around trying to put a complete team together.

 

[G-PIP]

Tubby was a lot better Coach but he just couldn’t recruit. It sucks we got someone that can recruit but can’t Coach.

Of course, I know what you mean, true blue1, and you’re right. Calipari is the best at convincing high school players that are the most highly ranked by recruiting services to sign on. But in the age of the transfer portal, being able to retain more upperclassmen and get more mature & experienced due to NIL, and an increasing need for high level 3pt. scorers and at least competent 3pt. shooting from 4 out of 5 positions, is Calipari really recruiting well? Should how many 5-stars a coach signs be the measuring stick? I mean, it’s not like football where you can stack #1 ranked recruiting classes and those recruits mostly won’t play until they’re upperclassmen. In CBB, the 5-stars UK brings in are largely one-and-done, right?

Maybe the coach deemed the best recruiter should be the guy that can identify and bring in guys who will develop into winning great to solid college players (even All-American & All-Conference types) as upperclassmen, and whose roster management keeps his team as one of the top teams capable of competing for championships year-in-and-year-out – instead of just adding up stars. If that were how it was measured, Calipari wouldn't even be in contention would he?

 

[bthaunert]

I made this post 6 years ago (March 23, 2018) when I first thought we were trending in the wrong direction and we have been trending that way ever since:

It's going to be interesting in how the next couple of years shake out. This is Cal's worst 3 year run in post season since 02/03 - 04/05 at Memphis. He spoiled the hell out of us in his first 6 years here, there is no doubt about that.

If we have a similar season next year to this year, he would be not far off from Tubby's last four years here.
Tubby was 99-36 / 45-19 with a trip to the Elite Eight.
Cal would be 111-37 / 49-23 with a trip to the Elite Eight.

 

[CatPhight]

 

[seccats04]

Post season is what matters at UK. Through 10 seasons Cal had 4 final fours and Tubby had 1. Tubby was smart enough to leave. Cal is an arrogant price and should have taken the ucla job.

He would be remembered fondly here if he just done that. Same way Tubby seems to be getting a revisionist history from some despite just the 1 final four.

Regular season SEC titles, SECT titles and all time wins matter too. I don’t want to just enjoy a two week run in March. It all matters. That’s what makes us different than every other program.

 

[CatPhight]

Regular season SEC titles, SECT titles and all time wins matter too. I don’t want to just enjoy a two week run in March. It all matters. That’s what makes us different than every other program.

SEC Tournament was the annual Kentucky Invitational before Clyde and Cal...

 

[wldktz8]

H

Tubby Smith would have this team at top 5 in the country. With 3 maybe 4 losses.

He wouldn’t have recruited this team.

 

[true blue1]

That’s unacceptable.

 

[chevyman 50]

Tubby did not have the 5 stars that Cal has.

 

[65pacecar]

One of them tries to compare Calipari to Rupp the other day. After I mentioned that only 8 teams made the ncaa tournament for the first 11 years and asked how many times Cal would have missed the tournament if it was like that today he shut up pretty quick. How anyone would even try to compare Cal to Rupp is mind boggling anyway.

Rupp’s remains, in their current state, could out-coach Cal.

 

[Cold Stout Beer]

We’ll know it’s officially over when Cal says “I thought 20 wins was a good season??? ” like Tubby shamelessly said near the end.

 

[seccats04]

We’ll know it’s officially over when Cal says “I thought 20 wins was a good season??? ” like Tubby shamelessly said near the end.

Or when Joker said "call me when we're 2-10."

 

[K_TIME]

We ran Tubby off for producing much better results. Why is Cal so immune for underperforming?

See the contract

 

[Johanngambolputty]

Tubby did not have the 5 stars that Cal has.

No college coach has come close to the level of talent and depth of talent he has had at Kentucky. Not remotely close.

 

[Cold Stout Beer]

Tubby did not have the 5 stars that Cal has.

That’s because Tubby was a lazy car salesman that quiet quit. His recruiting was horrific. The dirt bag started his own son at UK for pete’s sake. No excuse at all for Cal but Tubby was disgraceful after winning a title as has been Cal on the coaching side of things.

 

[UKAlum84]

Historically, Tubby had our teams tops in the conference.

Calipari is not doing so well in the conf. this year.

In fact, south carolina was picked to be last, pre-season............and look at them, they have worked hard.

 

[CatPhight]

That’s because Tubby was a lazy car salesman that quiet quit. His recruiting was horrific. The dirt bag started his own son at UK for pete’s sake. No excuse at all for Cal but Tubby was disgraceful after winning a title as has been Cal on the coaching side of things.

And yet, OTS could clearly out coach, runs laps in game prep and in-game adjustments and never missed a single tournament. He was infinity more likeable and never had a back handed compliment for the fan base to elevate his own shallow ego.

According to basic math and your contract citations, he will also wind up with a higher winning percentage, when the narcissistic imposter is finally forced to hang up his program crushing NBA foot washing philanthropy.

 

[Cold Stout Beer]

And yet, OTS could clearly out coach, runs laps in game prep and in-game adjustments and never missed a single tournament. He was infinity more likeable and never had a back handed compliment for the fan base to elevate his own shallow ego.

According to basic math and your contract citations, he will also wind up with a higher winning percentage, when the narcissistic imposter is finally forced to hang up his program crushing NBA foot washing philanthropy.

Won’t debate anything you said Just hate laziness and Sherray Thomas, Bobby Perry, Saul at PG etc. was his time elapsing as well.

 

[L.O.D.]

This guy says he’s in his 80s and making that comparison. Some people love Cal more than the program… crazy fact for about 5 percent of our fans or less.

I don't know how many % wise but pretty sure I know one. Dude I have talked UK with over 20 years who hated Tubby fierce defends Cal to this moment like he was Ellen . I think over time he became more a Cal fan than a UK fan sad but I don't got another explanation.

 

[Woodrow_Call_1998]

I don't know how many % wise but pretty sure I know one. Dude I have talked UK with over 20 years who hated Tubby fierce defends Cal to this moment like he was Ellen . I think over time he became more a Cal fan than a UK fan sad but I don't got another explanation.

If someone wants to like Cal, I’m fine with it if that’s what they want to do. It just sucks when they get on here lying and insulting people to do it.

 

[CatPhight]

Won’t debate anything you said Just hate laziness and Sherray Thomas, Bobby Perry, Saul at PG etc. was his time elapsing as well.

Tubby coached up that 2 and 3 star talent and made it to the NCAA Tournament every single year, while Cal compiles double digit losses in seasons loaded with with 4 and 5 star talent.

If Tubby had Cal's rosters during his tenure here, he'd have hung multiple banners.

If Cal had Tubby's rosters during his time here, we'd have missed more NCAA tourneys, than NCAA wins.

 

[katwest]

Won’t debate anything you said Just hate laziness and Sherray Thomas, Bobby Perry, Saul at PG etc. was his time elapsing as well.

Laziness, wow, Tubby was a good coach at Kentucky who never got his due and was not accepted by some, ever. some coaches are better recruiters than others. Some coaches are better coaches than others. I would rather have the best coach, and Tubby was a better coach with the players he had. Bobby Perry was a forrmer Mr. basketball in North Carolina and Sheray Thomas was offered by several big-time programs, as for Saul, I would say he was better than Brad, wouldn't you?
Tubby Smith By the Numbers
• 30 seasons as Division I head coach-631-355 (.640) overall record
• 3x National Coach of the Year
• AP College Coach of the Year (2003)
• Naismith College Coach of the Year (2003)
• NABC Coach of the Year (2003)
• Henry Iba Award (2003)
• Basketball Times Coach of the Year (2003)
• Jim Phelan Award (2005)
• Sporting News National Coach of the Year (2016)
• 6x Conference Coach of the Year
• 2× MVC Coach of the Year (1994, 1995)
• 3× SEC Coach of the Year (1998, 2003, 2005)
• Big 12 Coach of the Year (2016)
• John R. Wooden Legends of Coaching Award (2016)
• 1998 NCAA Championship with Kentucky
• 3 NCAA Elite Eight appearances
• 9 NCAA Sweet Sixteen appearances
• 18 NCAA Tournament appearances
• 20 postseason tournament appearances
• 7x Conference Regular Season Championships
• 5x SEC regular season titles (1998, 2000, 2001, 2003, 2005)
• 2x MVC regular season titles (1994, 1995)
• 5x SEC Tournament Championships (1998, 1999, 2001, 2003, 2004)

Kentucky was never in trouble or investigated when he was here.

 

[Cold Stout Beer]

Laziness, wow, Tubby was a good coach at Kentucky who never got his due and was not accepted by some, ever. some coaches are better recruiters than others. Some coaches are better coaches than others. I would rather have the best coach, and Tubby was a better coach with the players he had. Bobby Perry was a forrmer Mr. basketball in North Carolina and Sheray Thomas was offered by several big-time programs, as for Saul, I would say he was better than Brad, wouldn't you?
Tubby Smith By the Numbers
• 30 seasons as Division I head coach-631-355 (.640) overall record
• 3x National Coach of the Year
• AP College Coach of the Year (2003)
• Naismith College Coach of the Year (2003)
• NABC Coach of the Year (2003)
• Henry Iba Award (2003)
• Basketball Times Coach of the Year (2003)
• Jim Phelan Award (2005)
• Sporting News National Coach of the Year (2016)
• 6x Conference Coach of the Year
• 2× MVC Coach of the Year (1994, 1995)
• 3× SEC Coach of the Year (1998, 2003, 2005)
• Big 12 Coach of the Year (2016)
• John R. Wooden Legends of Coaching Award (2016)
• 1998 NCAA Championship with Kentucky
• 3 NCAA Elite Eight appearances
• 9 NCAA Sweet Sixteen appearances
• 18 NCAA Tournament appearances
• 20 postseason tournament appearances
• 7x Conference Regular Season Championships
• 5x SEC regular season titles (1998, 2000, 2001, 2003, 2005)
• 2x MVC regular season titles (1994, 1995)
• 5x SEC Tournament Championships (1998, 1999, 2001, 2003, 2004)

Kentucky was never in trouble or investigated when he was here.

He was a lazy a$$ recruiter at the end. Anyone that debates that is clueless. Just putrid recruits, but what can you expect from a guy that slid out the back door to Minessotta in the middle of the night. Why did he go there? He was allowed to hire family there. Don't blame him, family comes first. Those saying Cal puts other things before UK and but Tubby didn't aren't serious people.

 

[katwest]

I see you are one of those who don't or won't accept the fact he was a good coach while here, we are not talking about Minnesota or anywhere else. Lazy recruiter. We are talking about him and his record here, not attacking him personally. Brad played here and was on Cals staff, Tubby didn't send his assistants out after embarrassing losses, you can't argue with the facts.

 

[Cold Stout Beer]

He was a lazy a$$ recruiter at the end. Anyone that debates that is clueless. Just putrid recruits, but what can you expect from a guy that slid out the back door to Minessotta in the middle of the night. Why did he go there? He was allowed to hire family there. Don't blame him, family comes first. Those saying Cal puts other things before UK and but Tubby didn't aren't serious people.

The other reason he fled to Minnesotta was because Barnhart told him he was a good representative of UK and they just wanted him hire better assisants than guys like Reggie Hanson but he wouldn't do it and slid out the side door instead.

Much more likeable than Calipari, but was a joke at the end.

 

[Cold Stout Beer]

I see you are one of those who don't or won't accept the fact he was a good coach while here, we are not talking about Minnesota or anywhere else. Lazy recruiter. We are talking about him and his record here, not attacking him personally. Brad played here and was on Cals staff, Tubby didn't send his assistants out after embarrassing losses, you can't argue with the facts.

He was a great coach while here, and a pathetic recruiter AT THE END OF HIS TENURE as I've said gosh 3 times.

 

[Cold Stout Beer]

I see you are one of those who don't or won't accept the fact he was a good coach while here, we are not talking about Minnesota or anywhere else. Lazy recruiter. We are talking about him and his record here, not attacking him personally. Brad played here and was on Cals staff, Tubby didn't send his assistants out after embarrassing losses, you can't argue with the facts.

lmao. Was Brad installed as the STARTING POINT GUARD.?? Absurd comparison. Easily the most self-serving BS in UK history was letting Saul freaking Smith run the team. The media LOVED it because a joke Kentucky was exactly what they wanted.....and got.

 

[katwest]

He was a great coach while here, and a pathetic recruiter AT THE END OF HIS TENURE as I've said gosh 3 times.

So you would rather have a pathetic coach that's a great recruiter, well you got one. By your analogy, what he did even means more considering he couldn't recruit, but still had good records while coaching here, averaging over 26 wins in 10 seasons at Kentucky, not bad for a lazy recruiter.

 

[Cold Stout Beer]

So you would rather have a pathetic coach that's a great recruiter, well you got one. By your analogy, what he did even means more considering he couldn't recruit, but still had good records while coaching here, averaging over 26 wins in 10 seasons at Kentucky, not bad for a lazy recruiter.

Nope. I've said they both were bad at the end. I don't want Calipari. If someone doesn't agree with some of you completely, it turns into: , "he's a Cal lover! Right here! We got him!" Circle around!! Give me a break.

Both of them are self serving in their own ways and got lazy in the end in their own ways. I'll leave it at that (for the 4th time).

 

[katwest]

I don't think Tubby was ever the recruiter Cal is, but it wasn't because he was lazy, he would have never gotten any college job if he were. Cal said when he first came here, this was about a 10-year job max. He is not getting the job done with great recruiting, the last 5 years he's been the worst coach of the previous 6 as far as winning percentage and NCAA tournament wins, with the exception of Billy Clyde. Tubby isn't judged the same way Cal is, that's what the perception is and why people are defending Tubby. Yes, the last few years Tubby did not sign a top 100 recruit and it cost him, but he knew when to get out while still maintaining a clean program and good record. I never said or thought you were a Cal lover.

 

[KYCAT78]

No one "ran Tubby off". The facts tell the story. OTS flirted with Virginia, USCjr and finally Minnesota, all while still holding the position of UK's head coach. He also failed to tell his team he was leaving. Was he on the hot seat? Yes. Were fans howling for him to be replaced? Yes. But, no one ran him off. He was making good money as head coach (for that time period) and he chose to leave.

Give me a break, Tubby was called 10 loss Tubby for years and the fanbase was screaming for him to leave because he could not recruit. Public opinion forced Tubby to look for another job. It will not work on Cal because due to the negativity towards him he is now out to destroy our Program and tradition.

 

[FirewithFire]

We ran Tubby off for producing much better results. Why is Cal so immune for underperforming?

A massive lifetime contract. It's almost like Mitch made sure the Tubby thing couldn't happen twice.

 

[wccat2969]

We ran Tubby off for producing much better results. Why is Cal so immune for underperforming?

$$$$$$

And Cal has much greater talent. He can recruit but can't coach.

 

[chevyman 50]

That’s because Tubby was a lazy car salesman that quiet quit. His recruiting was horrific. The dirt bag started his own son at UK for pete’s sake. No excuse at all for Cal but Tubby was disgraceful after winning a title as has been Cal on the coaching side of things.

At least Tubby teams knew how to play D talking about lazy Cal cannot teach players to do anything.

 

[chevyman 50]

No college coach has come close to the level of talent and depth of talent he has had at Kentucky. Not remotely close.

So you are saying that Tubby had the same amount of 5 stars that Cal has Tubby never had a No. one recruiting class while Cal has one every year.

 

[Myotis]

So you are saying that Tubby had the same amount of 5 stars that Cal has Tubby never had a No. one recruiting class while Cal has one every year.

Not true. The 2004 class (Rondo, Crawford, Morris, Bradley, and eventually, Sparks) was ranked #1

The 2005 team was one uncalled foul from a final four, too. Sparks was fouled on the three that tied the game as time ran out. Had that foul been called, the Cats win. Sparks didn't miss free throws in that situation.

 

[Blueworld_3.0]

Give me a break, Tubby was called 10 loss Tubby for years and the fanbase was screaming for him to leave because he could not recruit. Public opinion forced Tubby to look for another job. It will not work on Cal because due to the negativity towards him he is now out to destroy our Program and tradition.

Good grief.
So, public opinion forced him to negotiate with THREE different schools during his tenure at UK? Public opinion forced him to bail on his team without saying goodbye?

The reason Calipari doesn't have to leave is $8.6 million per year over the next 5 years GUARANTEED by a ridiculous contract.

 

[BlueSince92]

like this year, after years of saying we need more shooting, he says “ok, here’s a great shooting class, but i’m then done coaching defense and you’ll see how even when you’re right you’re wrong”.

Outrageous thought. But man doesn’t it just *exactly* fit the data? 😱

 

[KYCAT78]

Good grief.
So, public opinion forced him to negotiate with THREE different schools during his tenure at UK? Public opinion forced him to bail on his team without saying goodbye?

The reason Calipari doesn't have to leave is $8.6 million per year over the next 5 years GUARANTEED by a ridiculous contract.
Nothing says you cannot make Cal team Manager. Nothing days he cannot be removed as Coach. Barney and him along with women's basketball Coach should all be out of their position.