Travis Branham has removed his crystal ball predicting DJ Wagner to Arkansas

[LineSkiCat14]

I was reminded during the NBA playoffs just how many great players have come through our program during Cal’s tenure. It’s also painfully evident that he should have won more with all that talent.
Not winning at least a couple of more titles in 15 seasons when the half the NBA all-stars are your former players is coaching malpractice.

No guarantees in the tournament. Yes, those Villanova Knick's guys won the title in 2016... but they returned Hart, Brunson, Divenchenzo, Mikal Bridges and Kris Jenkins (4 of which are in the NBA now) the following season... annnddd they lost in the 2nd round. Now some will say "Who cares, some of them then won the title the next year!". But I'd argue a 2nd round loss for a championship team is quite the letdown, especially from a supposed top3 coach out there, Jay Wright. FOUR NBA guys wouldn't get past 8-seeded Wisconsin.. a team that had Nigel Hayes, Ethan Happ, and Bronsin Koenig.. not exactly a team with a ton of talent at all.

Elite talent doesn't always mean you're going to win the title. Coach K couldn't often do it, neither could Cal.

 

[BBNinSC]

No guarantees in the tournament. Yes, those Villanova Knick's guys won the title in 2016... but they returned Hart, Brunson, Divenchenzo, Mikal Bridges and Kris Jenkins (4 of which are in the NBA now) the following season... annnddd they lost in the 2nd round. Now some will say "Who cares, some of them then won the title the next year!". But I'd argue a 2nd round loss for a championship team is quite the letdown, especially from a supposed top3 coach out there, Jay Wright. FOUR NBA guys wouldn't get past 8-seeded Wisconsin.. a team that had Nigel Hayes, Ethan Happ, and Bronsin Koenig.. not exactly a team with a ton of talent at all.

Elite talent doesn't always mean you're going to win the title. Coach K couldn't often do it, neither could Cal.

Kentucky enjoyed an unprecedented talent advantage during most of Cal’s time here. The only comparison is Saban at Alabama, who won 6 titles in 17 seasons.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

Kentucky enjoyed an unprecedented talent advantage during most of Cal’s time here. The only comparison is Saban at Alabama, who won 6 titles in 17 seasons.

It's short sighted to say that only Saban was comparable to Cal.. what about Coach K from 2016 to 2022? His recruiting classes during that time generally edged ours, yet I think they only had just one single final 4 in that time frame.

I also really get tired of hearing comparisons to Saban, no offense. It's an entirely different sport where teams are configured and built drastically different. Saban not only had elite talent, but he then got to keep that talent for 3-4 years. You can't do that in basketball. In basketball, if you want the elite talent, then there's the inherent drawback that your teams will be young, and then leave early. We can't compare college basketball to football in that way.

 

[JFCats22]

I was reminded during the NBA playoffs just how many great players have come through our program during Cal’s tenure. It’s also painfully evident that he should have won more with all that talent.
Not winning at least a couple of more titles in 15 seasons when the half the NBA all-stars are your former players is coaching malpractice.

100% agree....but to say (like the other poster did) that Cal doesn't/didn't develop these guys into NBA players is nonsense.

 

[BBNinSC]

It's short sighted to say that only Saban was comparable to Cal.. what about Coach K from 2016 to 2022? His recruiting classes during that time generally edged ours, yet I think they only had just one single final 4 in that time frame.

I also really get tired of hearing comparisons to Saban, no offense. It's an entirely different sport where teams are configured and built drastically different. Saban not only had elite talent, but he then got to keep that talent for 3-4 years. You can't do that in basketball. In basketball, if you want the elite talent, then there's the inherent drawback that your teams will be young, and then leave early. We can't compare college basketball to football in that way.

Not even Nick Saban enjoyed the talent advantage that Cal had in basketball. There are 26 former Kentucky players in the NBA right now, no other program comes close.
UK had the best roster in the country just last season.
Cal has put 3 times the percentage of his players into the NBA than Saban has to the NFL

 

[LineSkiCat14]

Not even Nick Saban enjoyed the talent advantage that Cal had in basketball. There are 26 former Kentucky players in the NBA right now, no other program comes close.
You could argue that Cal had an unprecedented talent advantage, regardless of sport.

And so did Coach K from 2016 to 2022 lol. I ask this over and over and no one can answer: What is Coach K's excuse? At least Cal got several final4's early on with the talent (2011, 2014, 2015). All coach K got was one extra Final4 after his 2015 title.

Giles, Tatum, Jackson, Bolden, Bagley, Carter, Duval, Gary Trent, RJ, Zion, Cam, Tre Jones, Carey, Hurt, Johnson, Roach, Banchero.. All these guys from 2016 to 2021, when Duke was the #1 recruiting program, not UK. So I ask again, with just one final4 in there, what is Coach K's excuse, and how is THAT collection of talent any worse than what Cal got at any point in time over his year at UK?

 

[BBNinSC]

And so did Coach K from 2016 to 2022 lol. I ask this over and over and no one can answer: What is Coach K's excuse? At least Cal got several final4's early on with the talent (2011, 2014, 2015). All coach K got was one extra Final4 after his 2015 title.

Giles, Tatum, Jackson, Bolden, Bagley, Carter, Duval, Gary Trent, RJ, Zion, Cam, Tre Jones, Carey, Hurt, Johnson, Roach, Banchero.. All these guys from 2016 to 2021, when Duke was the #1 recruiting program, not UK. So I ask again, with just one final4 in there, what is Coach K's excuse, and how is THAT collection of talent any worse than what Cal got at any point in time over his year at UK?

I’m not arguing for Coach K. He’s got his own demons.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

I’m not arguing for Coach K. He’s got his own demons.

But my problem is, this board continues to just sort of "forget" (either accidentally or on purpose) that Coach K tried his hand at what Cal does, and he also "failed".. and I'd say he failed to an even bigger degree.. and this is supposed to be the GOAT coach of all time.

So is it that Cal failed miserably with all this talent? Or.. is it that elite-but-young talent isnt like it is in Football, and it doesn't just mean your team is better because of it, in a game where experience and skill still matters?

 

[LineSkiCat14]

The mere fact that fans here and across the sport are weary on if they want 1AD talent in basketball.. but would NEVER balk at a top25 football recruiting coming to them.. tells you everything you need to know about the differences.

 

[BBNinSC]

The mere fact that fans here and across the sport are weary on if they want 1AD talent in basketball.. but would NEVER balk at a top25 football recruiting coming to them.. tells you everything you need to know about the differences.

and it makes you think that if we could just keep basketball players for 3 years, but then we don’t get the best talent every year.
Give me 5 guesses right now and I can probably pick the 2025 college football champion. I believe college basketball will become a dozen dominant teams

 

[MrHotDice]

The mere fact that fans here and across the sport are weary on if they want 1AD talent in basketball.. but would NEVER balk at a top25 football recruiting coming to them.. tells you everything you need to know about the differences.

Football would be like basketball if everyone had to play both offense and defense like it used to be. No need for 85 man teams. That would not allow a few teams to bank all the good players. 3 deep=33 players.😁

 

[LineSkiCat14]

and it makes you think that if we could just keep basketball players for 3 years, but then we don’t get the best talent every year.
Give me 5 guesses right now and I can probably pick the 2025 college football champion. I believe college basketball will become a dozen dominant teams

But THAT'S the difference, right? You can't keep talent in college, they are able to leave after just 1 year. An elite coach in football not only gets to have elite recruiting, but they then get to keep that elite recruiting for 3-4 years. Can't do that in college basketball. You basically have to take your pick: super talented but young.. or less talented but experienced. And that lines up perfectly with your point about football predictions, and the fact that there's really only 2-3 real contenders.

Not to mention: you get to stack the talent in college football and fill in the gaps every year. Saban could take a class one year with great D-line guys, and then maybe next year, he gets a class with great D-backs. Elite football coaches then rarely have holes in their system. But in basketball, you better hope your elite recruiting is getting you all 5 positions, or else you might be in trouble. Can't bank on those centers to come back next year, so you need to get an elite center every single year.

 

[know1]

This is dumb and just being a hater. What about Herro, Booker, Reed and about 10 other guys?

I mean, if Cal doesn’t develop NBA players then who does?

Most of them developed into good NBA players AFTER they left here. Cal did almost nothing for them except protect their draft stock - i.e. let them sit a lot and not risk injury.

 

[JFCats22]

Most of them developed into good NBA players AFTER they left here. Cal did almost nothing for them except protect their draft stock - i.e. let them sit a lot and not risk injury.

This is completely ridiculous. Go look at the guys that got drafted and see if they got picked higher or lower than they were projected before they got to UK. To say Cal doesn't develop players is just being silly.

 

[king of cali]

Most of them developed into good NBA players AFTER they left here. Cal did almost nothing for them except protect their draft stock - i.e. let them sit a lot and not risk injury.

Just stupid

 

[FurdTerguson]

This is completely ridiculous. Go look at the guys that got drafted and see if they got picked higher or lower than they were projected before they got to UK. To say Cal doesn't develop players is just being silly.

About half his top 20 recruits went on to successful NBA careers. But you also have to acknowledge the ones whose careers never got off the ground. The Harrisons, James Young, Briscoe, etc. And a bunch whose careers were meh. Poythress. Teague. Guys like that.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

About half his top 20 recruits went on to successful NBA careers. But you also have to acknowledge the ones whose careers never got off the ground. The Harrisons, James Young, Briscoe, etc. And a bunch whose careers were meh. Poythress. Teague. Guys like that.

I think his numbers are pretty strong, comparing to other coaches. Cal seems to have a pretty good nose for sniffing out not only true NBA talent, but also guys who work hard and get after it. We've had almost no real egos or character issues on his teams, save for 1 or 2 guys. No one really entitled when they came in.

Id think we'd all agree that getting John Wall into the NBA wasnt some tough task.. but I think getting guys like Herro, Booker, Reed and SGA is what separates him. He was able to get like 4 or 5 guys drafted off of a platoon team where everyone's stats got slashed due to minutes

And not to bring it back to Coach K.. but all those high recruits that he got? A heck of a lot of them couldn't hack it in the NBA. Bill selfs top recruits? Meh. Any other coach? I'd bet their results are mixed as well.

So maybe Cal doesn't develop these guys (I dont fully buy this, although I see the argument), but at the very least, he sure seems to know how to find them.

 

[anonymous_2011]

Hope DJ gets away from Cal.

He was in a no win situation here last year being hurt, not as good as advertised, and starting over two studs.

 

[Bluegrassking]

This is completely ridiculous. Go look at the guys that got drafted and see if they got picked higher or lower than they were projected before they got to UK. To say Cal doesn't develop players is just being silly.

Even if it wasn't the argument is DOA.

Way too deep in now to change the most key minds that will say to tell that story walking aka NBA General Managers, players, parents, and handlers.

One may as well be trying to sell that the sky is purple and that communism is a viable economic system into the common wisdom at this stage in the game.

It is well beyond tough to gather the exact molecules of water that passed under a bridge years ago.

 

[Cleatortoises]

Come on back young man. Players get better when they are still young. Hence all of our non champion all stars in the league. Bench players are needed, unless you prove you're not one.
Even though the hall of famer didn't see it that way.

 

[cats2010]

This is completely ridiculous. Go look at the guys that got drafted and see if they got picked higher or lower than they were projected before they got to UK. To say Cal doesn't develop players is just being silly.

Cal had a lot of players get drafted well beyond were they were projected. He had 3 high projected picks this year. Edwards was a top 5 pick and might get picked by end of first due to good combine showing but DJ and Bradshaw also projected lottery picks (If I recall correctly) and neither even got a sniff at this years draft. And it is not incorrect to say those players got immensely better once into the league, as you would expect them too since they left UK as young as they did.

 

[BlueSince92]

View embedded media

He took his ball and went home.

 

[Blue_2_the_bone]

This is completely ridiculous. Go look at the guys that got drafted and see if they got picked higher or lower than they were projected before they got to UK. To say Cal doesn't develop players is just being silly.

What did Cal do to develop Reed, Herro, or SGA? Outside of Wall, AD, & Cousins who came developed, they didn’t develop until a few years into the NBA. 2 of these guys didn’t even start for him the full year. What Cal had was recruiters who had an eye for talent, the ability to seal the deal with families, and connections that made NBA guys take a chance on them. Thats not development. How many 5 stars never developed under him?

 

[FurdTerguson]

What did Cal do to develop Reed, Herro, or SGA? Outside of Wall, AD, & Cousins who came developed, they didn’t develop until a few years into the NBA. 2 of these guys didn’t even start for him the full year. What Cal had was recruiters who had an eye for talent, the ability to seal the deal with families, and connections that made NBA guys take a chance on them. Thats not development. How many 5 stars never developed under him?

Or transferred and developed elsewhere

 

[know1]

This is completely ridiculous. Go look at the guys that got drafted and see if they got picked higher or lower than they were projected before they got to UK. To say Cal doesn't develop players is just being silly.

They got older. Also, the draft projections are fluid and the player's draft spot doesn't just happen in a vacuum. There are tons of other factors.

 

[sambowieshin]

But my problem is, this board continues to just sort of "forget" (either accidentally or on purpose) that Coach K tried his hand at what Cal does, and he also "failed".. and I'd say he failed to an even bigger degree.. and this is supposed to be the GOAT coach of all time.

So is it that Cal failed miserably with all this talent? Or.. is it that elite-but-young talent isnt like it is in Football, and it doesn't just mean your team is better because of it, in a game where experience and skill still matters?

Cal's 2012 title was fool's gold for the belief that young One and Done talent can get you lots of titles. K fell for it as well at the end. Then once you are in that recruiting mode...it is tough to break out of it as you lose half or more of your team every year to the NBA or G league.

 

[GLStarrBrand]

It's short sighted to say that only Saban was comparable to Cal.. what about Coach K from 2016 to 2022? His recruiting classes during that time generally edged ours, yet I think they only had just one single final 4 in that time frame.

I also really get tired of hearing comparisons to Saban, no offense. It's an entirely different sport where teams are configured and built drastically different. Saban not only had elite talent, but he then got to keep that talent for 3-4 years. You can't do that in basketball. In basketball, if you want the elite talent, then there's the inherent drawback that your teams will be young, and then leave early. We can't compare college basketball to football in that way.

You are moving the goalposts. Coach K won a title in 2015 with his 3 best players being freshman, that was a OAD team as much as the 2012 UK team was, both sprinkled in vets. Coach K also won titles with experienced players.

The formula to winning is get the best talent and keep the best talent in school. And Coach K did that for 30+ years minus a few hiccups here and there.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

You are moving the goalposts. Coach K won a title in 2015 with his 3 best players being freshman, that was a OAD team as much as the 2012 UK team was, both sprinkled in vets. Coach K also won titles with experienced players.

The formula to winning is get the best talent and keep the best talent in school. And Coach K did that for 30+ years minus a few hiccups here and there.

No one is moving the goal posts lmfao. I'm not including the 2012 UK title nor the 2015 Duke title, and never did for this argument. We can if you want.. but that still leaves Duke well short of "succeeding" with 1AD talent, as we're now including classes going back to 2011.

And fwiw, that Duke team wasn't just freshman.. it was largely guys like Quinn Cook, Jefferson, Matt Jones, etc. They were more experienced than the 2012 UK team.

No one is talking about your Duke titles from the 90s lol.. We're talking about how hard it is win when you have predominantly freshman teams. Duke had just as many #1 recruiting classes, several would-be NBA recruits every year, and they didn't do much with it.

 

[FurdTerguson]

That Zion-Barrett team should have crushed everybody.

 

[HeelVol]

I personally think Wagner was grossly overrated because of the Calipari tie to DJ's Dad. Most outsiders would see Calipari recruiting any high schooler, that kid must be like all of Calipari's players...a OAD possibility. But one with the last name and pedigree of Wagner? that kid must be a number 1 overall type of player. The reality is DJ Wagner was never a top 3 overall recruit type.

When you all got his commitment, and I watched his highlight videos, I honestly thought to myself that he's a high effort, intense player with merely okay athleticism, no real wiggle, no real talent. He is a Division 1 athlete for sure but there was and is nothing that screams or whispers NBA talent. He went left to finish layups but not elevate for dunks or electric finishes. Solid, not great.

OTOH, the other 2 guards, Dillingham and Sheppard, I was and remain highly impressed with. Rewind the "tape" and I've said on your forum that Sheppard reminds me of John Stockton and that was before Sheppard started to have those 20 point games. And Dillingham...that kid is crazy talented, a natural athletic scorer. He's an unbridled talent. When it gets tamed (a little more discipline), watch out. Really good players who should've started early.

DJ Wagner is a good college player. I'd see him as a fit for a program like Houston where DJ's aggressive side can be fit in. I can't see him in the NBA. If RJ Davis had DJ's size, that would be a 1st round pick.

 

[Hopmix]

I personally think Wagner was grossly overrated because of the Calipari tie to DJ's Dad. Most outsiders would see Calipari recruiting any high schooler, that kid must be like all of Calipari's players...a OAD possibility. But one with the last name and pedigree of Wagner? that kid must be a number 1 overall type of player. The reality is DJ Wagner was never a top 3 overall recruit type.

When you all got his commitment, and I watched his highlight videos, I honestly thought to myself that he's a high effort, intense player with merely okay athleticism, no real wiggle, no real talent. He is a Division 1 athlete for sure but there was and is nothing that screams or whispers NBA talent. He went left to finish layups but not elevate for dunks or electric finishes. Solid, not great.

OTOH, the other 2 guards, Dillingham and Sheppard, I was and remain highly impressed with. Rewind the "tape" and I've said on your forum that Sheppard reminds me of John Stockton and that was before Sheppard started to have those 20 point games. And Dillingham...that kid is crazy talented, a natural athletic scorer. He's an unbridled talent. When it gets tamed (a little more discipline), watch out. Really good players who should've started early.

DJ Wagner is a good college player. I'd see him as a fit for a program like Houston where DJ's aggressive side can be fit in. I can't see him in the NBA. If RJ Davis had DJ's size, that would be a 1st round pick.

youre smoking that blue grass buddy...
hes a 6'4 guard with a 3.7 GPA that averaged 23-3-3-1 in high school and won his states player of the year award plus max preps POY. He missed 7 games his senior year but its obvious he doesnt do well with injuries. But overhyped.. Nah

 

[HeelVol]

youre smoking that blue grass buddy...
hes a 6'4 guard with a 3.7 GPA that averaged 23-3-3-1 in high school and won his states player of the year award plus max preps POY. He missed 7 games his senior year but its obvious he doesnt do well with injuries. But overhyped.. Nah

He's got great numbers that you stated above. I just think he physically matured faster than most high school players. His ceiling may have already been reached. He doesn't (yet) show natural scoring ability that we all see from true top ranked guards like Kyrie, DRose EDIT: add Fox, Anthony Edwards.... And even his athleticism is good but not great.

Dillingham possesses those qualities. Sheppard has better athleticism and shooting than Wagner, too.

Do you not see what I saw against college competition?

I saw his highlights and he definitely played hard and physical going to the rim but he never elevated above the rim like a 5 star guard usually does.

He's not even a Jalen Brunson below the rim type of player. Brunson is strong but not fast or super quick but he's shifty, crafty, with a knack to score. Wagner shows none of that quality.

If his name was not Wagner and being recruited by Calipari who coached his Dad to being a 1st round draft pick...DJ Wagner would be a top 50 ranked player if being recruited by Rick Barnes.

Even Jaden Springer passed the eye test better than DJ Wagner. Springer had better athleticism (hops, burst) and could shoot.

(i have zero against DJ Wagner...just playing the Simon Cowell role of giving an honest assessment)

 

[Elliott Tim]

Yeah, if I'm guessing, I say it's probably a combination of issues. I guarantee Calipari wants a one and done in his first season at Arkansas. And who is the most obvious choice? Boogie Fland is really his best possibility to be one and done. What are the chances Fland comes off the bench?

I think...
1. Fland has already been promised the starting job.
2. DJ wants assurances he will start before he signs.
3. DJ may also want to get paid, significantly, for his services.
4. Cal has already spent way too much money to get Aidoo to sign on. He may not be able to afford DJ's asking price.
5. DJ and Fland starting together doesn't make much sense. DJ's shot is broken and Cal knows it. Fland is a better shooter, but not good enough to start at the 2.

I don't think Cal is nearly as gung-ho about DJ as he was last season. We all watched DJ start nearly every game while 2 lottery picks sat the bench. DJ had his shot. What are the chances Cal is gonna repeat the same thing? Sit the better player because of a promise made off the books? I bet Cal refused to promise DJ the starting job and DJ knows he could likely start elsewhere. I wouldn't be shocked if he doesn't choose the Hogs. No way he returns to UK, either. So, it's likely a name school that needs a pg badly.

A real possibility.

 

[fatguy87]

That Zion-Barrett team should have crushed everybody.

Thankfully Cam Reddish saved us all by tricking everyone into thinking he was a good player.

 

[BigBlueTrue75]

A real possibility.

Sounds about right to me

 

[Elliott Tim]

Sounds about right to me

Ditto.

 

[TankedCat]

100% agree....but to say (like the other poster did) that Cal doesn't/didn't develop these guys into NBA players is nonsense.

the problem is he didn't develop them into college players

 

[BigBlueManSouthCentralKY]

Just read five landing spots for Wagner. AR, UL, Rutgers, Seton Hall and forgot the fifth one.

 

[MegaBlue05]

Just read five landing spots for Wagner. AR, UL, Rutgers, Seton Hall and forgot the fifth one.

Is it USC? I’ve heard his lady friend goes there.

 

[Montana81]

Good god…even when they’re sort of right(Cal did do a good job preparing kids for the league) it will never stop being maddening to see the same group of brain dead supposed UK fans immediately come running to the defense of John Calipari even after he spent years tanking the program because he stopped prioritizing winning over draft picks.

He made 9 million a year to win basketball games. And then dippped(thankfully) for a conference rival when our AD finally grew some balls and wouldn’t let him hire his way under qualified son.

Dude never gave a shit about or had any loyalty towards the long term success of UK basketball. For ****s sake stop defending him already.