The Ukraine war. (Yes, we'll mind our manners)
- Thread starter BigBlueFanGA
- Start date
I think you are a hypocrite. You don't think for yourself you just think what you need to think to justify the next thought. It's why so many of us laff at you in this thread. None of your thoughts make sense with your other thoughts. Like your whole thing of trying to say you understand non aggression and you think spending is too high yet you are all for sending unlimited money to Ukraine in a war that doesn't affect us. Those are conflicting thoughts and you espouse both.
You have no argument. You just espouse russian talking points. And say the war ''doesnt effect us''. Then when shown facts and historical presedence. You call it ''cia propaganda''. What I mean when I said most of Trump's supporters are idiots.
Got to love a libertarian that doesn't think the cia uses propaganda on us. And I had a good argument on the fact you complain about spending but would send any amount of money to Ukraine when we don't have a single national interest in that region.
I wish the CIA was 1/3rd as based as you think they are. We do have a national interest in the region. When did I complain about spending? I said Ukraine was one percent of our GDP. In a good way. Because you act like it's like 30%.
Its back, back again.
The Russian disinformation nonsense is really ramping up now because well....there is nothing much logically left to stand on. Its circular inconsistent arguments.
Russia is stupid and incompetent but also evil and capable of world domination. Ukraine repelled a Russian advance into kyiv all the way back to their border, but also is a weak and helpless victim without our endless billions.
Then when those obviously competing positions get pointed out, it's Russian disinformation.
Which is a good example of Trump not being the "isolationist" your media/MIC narrative says he is.
Trump's foreign policy was/is FAFO, not isolationist. And he's right, we never would've been here: hundreds of thousand$ of Ukrainian$ wouldn't be needlessly dying, countless other lives ruined.
No interest worth risking WW3... europe should fund and/or fight their war with russia themselves.
We send both, cash and military equipment. Those who are making munitions benefit, agreed, and contractors who will support the Ukraine likewise benefit. Between January 2022 and January 2023, the U.S. committed more than $26 billion to Ukraine in financial assistance. In Feb 2024, we committed billions more. One article informs over $45 billion has been sent.
He said he would end the war. Selective listening is unproductive. Most demands at the initiation of negotiations are unacceptable. Hence, … negotiations.
Here's the libertarian stance, or is Dave smith actually extreme maga too? Yet again, amazingly, every disagreement, or "everything I don't like" is Russian propaganda, you say. Which i must say, I'm Very impressed that everything has been done perfectly with full plans in place, no mistakes, and has been well thought out. Makes sense with our countries precedent in things like the war in Afghanistan, Vietnam, etc. So no doubt all of this is running smoothly...of course don't question it...disinformation campaigns and all
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Love that Richie can only do laugh emoji when he can't respond.
He claims he's a libertarian so I just posted someone who's part of the Mises Caucus (which Richie isn't familiar with bc he actually isn't libertarian) and their thoughts on it...yet he's so warped he can't accept anything but narrative, groupthink, and dogma..which I'm guessing he didn't even watch the video for for that very reason
He claims he's a libertarian so I just posted someone who's part of the Mises Caucus (which Richie isn't familiar with bc he actually isn't libertarian) and their thoughts on it...yet he's so warped he can't accept anything but narrative, groupthink, and dogma..which I'm guessing he didn't even watch the video for for that very reason
Mises Caucus is a paleolibertarianism party. You know they're typically shit on, in libertarian circles for being republicans in masks, right?
"The prevailing press narrative is that nearly all Republicans are isolationists who want to withdraw from the world and leave a beleaguered Ukraine to fend for itself. Yet candidates running hard against U.S. support for Ukraine are getting thumped in GOP primaries."
"A recent poll from the Reagan Presidential Foundation and Institute showed 75% of Americans think a Ukrainian victory is important to the U.S."
I wonder if the anti-Ukraine support clique here; i.e., isolationists, knows who this Reagan person was.
"A recent poll from the Reagan Presidential Foundation and Institute showed 75% of Americans think a Ukrainian victory is important to the U.S."
I wonder if the anti-Ukraine support clique here; i.e., isolationists, knows who this Reagan person was.
How exactly would he end it? He said he doesn't support Ukraine ceding any land to the Russians. Russia isn't walking away from Ukraine without taking some land.
Great, so then we should be able to stop and focus on our own problems.
Problem solved.
A poll is not how such things are determined.
The only people who think such are those profiting from it and their useful idiots.
He wants to end the war and stressed how devastating this has been in the terms of deaths and destruction. So, ask him. But, he is not puffing the rhetoric of more war. That is a good thing.
I like how you use the useful idiots moniker. It makes you seem smart, above it all. A intelluctal. Yet you openly do the bidding of a political party (GOP). The irony is not lost on you, I'm sure.
Is anyone saying the war hasn't been devastating? Putin can end the war anytime. He just has to pull out of Ukraine. Why hasn't he?
They’re are lots of Republicans who are all in on funding Ukraine till the last one of them is dead.
The MAGA wing is really a party within a party. I guess I should have said MAGA. But it fits under the GOP umbrella.
Competent diplomacy is not isolationism.
What they've done has only served to destroy Ukraine and line some pockets. It's worked. That's what's worked. And that's all that's worked.
.Thhat's not why I use it. I use it in the technical sensse, and have from the start, because it's true and precise. I said from the begining that there is a seductive and skillfully crafted media narrative used to manufacture consent; of course they'll poll 75% agreement.
Tha'ts an integral part of it. I'ts narrative, not reality.
And the Rs are just as pro-war as the Ds.
1. Trump has said he doesn't support Ukraine ceding land to Russia. 2. So has Biden 3. A few days ago Russian publicy said they would not accept any peace plans, that deal with ceding land back to Ukraine.
So what ''Competent diplomacy'' are you talking about?
Yeah yeah, we've heard it all. Muh media. It's only brainwashing when it's the other side. Not your side.
What other authoritarian platform will you gravitate to. If Trump loses this year? Or, when his 2nd term is up? Who's the next guy up?
So you don’t think Democrats have committed many Authoritarian actions? Some even might say, sending a seemingly endless supply of tax payer funded weaponry to a foreign nation. To fight a war a large percentage of those tax payers don’t care about is pretty authoritarian.
Why do you keep going back to democrats? I don't like either one of them. Republicans say they want limited government, until they get into power. Then it's big government for your own good. Democrats claim to love free speech and personal liberty. Until it's used to stop them, from enroaching on your liberty. Then it's an issue.
I wish we didn't have to use taxpayers to send weapons to Ukraine. But that's a whole other issue. One that can't be fixed at the moment.
You claim to want limited government intervention in our lives. How does that jive with supporting sending Billions of dollars to corrupt governments? Where do you think that money is coming from? Ukraine is losing some of their land. You, Trump and anybody else who believes they’re not are fooling yourselves. Some of us want serious discussions held to end this waste of lives and resources as painlessly for the Ukrainian people as possible. To my knowledge that hasn’t come close to happening since the beginning of the war. Is the US a world leader or not? Bring these people to the table instead of enriching the weapons manufacturers over and over again.
I wish we didn't have to tax people. But like I said, there's not a way to fix that at this moment.
It hasn't come close to happening, because of Russia's refusal to accept any peace plan. That deals with them ceding land. Ukraine has also said they aren't giving up land. NATO is trying to bleed Russia dry. Of men, armor, etc. And to weaken their economy so they can't try this again and to hopefully get them to the peace table. Where Ukraine has leverage.
VD Hanson on how the war can/should/will end:
"...formalization of the 2014 Russian absorption of Crimea and Donbass.
Russia would then agree to withdraw all its forces to its pre-2022 borders. Ukraine would be fully armed but without NATO membership.
Both sides would agree to a demilitarized zone on both sides of the Russian-Ukrainian border. Russia would brag that it prevented its former province from joining NATO while finally institutionalizing its prior incorporation of the Donbass and Crimea.
Ukraine would be proud that, like heroic 1940 Finland, it miraculously stopped Russian aggression. It would remain far better armed than at any time in its history and soon enjoy a status similar to that of non-NATO Austria or Switzerland."
"...formalization of the 2014 Russian absorption of Crimea and Donbass.
Russia would then agree to withdraw all its forces to its pre-2022 borders. Ukraine would be fully armed but without NATO membership.
Both sides would agree to a demilitarized zone on both sides of the Russian-Ukrainian border. Russia would brag that it prevented its former province from joining NATO while finally institutionalizing its prior incorporation of the Donbass and Crimea.
Ukraine would be proud that, like heroic 1940 Finland, it miraculously stopped Russian aggression. It would remain far better armed than at any time in its history and soon enjoy a status similar to that of non-NATO Austria or Switzerland."
This sounds fantastic and that whoever this is actually put thought into it. But is anybody in power on either side going to wanna stop sending the commoners into the meat grinder?
If Putin thinks his millitary can get him some more land, he won't. That's why it's important to bleed em dry.
Trump is not puffing the rhetoric of more war. He is talking about ending the war. These are the things we don’t hear much. Rather, we hear what you say below, as if you are willing to continue to stack Ukrainians in a burial heap so you can have your way.
The MUGA wing fits under both parties and those getting rich off of war.
