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- Thread starter Smashcat
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I was wondering that myself. Kinda weird to hate someone that you don’t know and have only seen on tv.
They lost to Orlando, in part, because Horace Grant dominated them.
They added Rodman, for Will Perdue, in one of the most lop-sided trades in NBA history, to counteract Orlando's post strength.
If Jordan doesn't retire, perhaps Grant stays, and gets old in a Bulls uniform. Maybe he peters out by, say, 1995-6, himself.
Maybe a fresh Hakeem destroys a fatigued Bulls team in 1994.
Maybe they never steal Steve Kerr off the waiver wire.
There's a reason why teams don't win 3-4 straight titles.
To pretend like a Bulls team, with a strong New York nemesis, would have won endless championships, when nobody else had been doing that for decades before, nor in decades since, is ridiculous.
Well, I mean, the Bulls did this TWICE...(3 titles)..Did it with Horace...W/O Horace....With Rodman....Without Rodman....With Kerr....Without Kerr....
Yet you think its "ridiculous" to think a team led by that dude Jordan, could've won 6, 7+ titles, in a row?
Ok..
The Bulls did this twice.....in 7 years. You are right, though. There is a reason teams don't win 3-4 straight. Here's that reason:
Didn't have this dude...
I seriously doubt that. The 94 Bulls quite likely would've been the best of all those Bull teams if Jordan had come back.
Not only would they have had all the key parts back from the teams that had won three straight, but they also added improvements like Toni Kukoc, who was quite possibly the best sixth man in the entire league that season. And also added Steve Kerr and Bill Wennington to upgrade their depth in both the backcourt and frontcourt.
Plus BJ Armstrong, Pippen and Grant all hit their apex and had career seasons that year, and Jordan also would've been at his apex.
The 94 Bulls would've been a friggin juggernaut if Jordan had returned.
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According to Matt Jones the average player is far superior today compared to past players. He went as far as to compare Anthony Davis to Bill Lambier to make his point. Are you freaking kidding me? That would be like comparing Karl Malone to Myles Plumlee. One is at the top of their game and one of the elite in the league and the other is an average player. At least compare apples to apples Matt.
And that's fine. But the real point is whether or not they win 8, 9, 10 straight.
There's a reason why Jordan walked away.
At some point, it would catch up with him. Because he walked away, people like to pretend he was super-man and would never have lost a championship in an 82 game season + play-offs again.
It's make believe.
We have talked many times about how guys blow money and end up with nothing after their playing days are over. I guess Rodman is one of those guys. After making over 27 million dollars in salary he has a net worth of 500K. I also found it interesting that Pippen made 16 million more in NBA salary than Michael did. Of course Mike was getting bank from Nike, Gatorade and other endorsement deals. It is reported that Nike has paid Jordan roughly 1.3 billion since his first deal with them.
The Bulls did this twice.....in 7 years. You are right, though. There is a reason teams don't win 3-4 straight. Here's that reason:
Didn't have this dude...
I know they won 3. They didn't win 4.
I should have said 4-5.
Yes. Ridiculous.
But I'm sure it's fun for you to sit at home at night and polish your fake Bulls rings from '94, '95, and '99.
It’s not a video game and you’ve seen through the documentary that winning those first of 3 titles wore Jordan out mentally. There was the quote that the last title he won he almost looked relieved. And that was before the death of his father. While physically, if Jordan had played I think it’s fair to say the Bulls could have won 4 or even 5 straight but could have he endured it mentally. Stayed healthy? I think that’s where the what if’s end and why you don’t see teams win that many in a row. I can’t even fathom the toll one championship season takes on you, more or less 3
Steve Kerr, OTOH, didn't say it would be ridiculous for the Bulls to keep winning.
He said it is "preposterous".
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/...bulls-rockets-nba-finals-we-never-got-to-see/
"Sometimes people say to me, 'If Michael had stayed, you guys would've won eight in a row.' That's the most preposterous thing I have ever heard. People have no idea how emotionally draining it is for a team to keep winning," Kerr told David Aldridge and Michael Lee of the Athletic.
He said it is "preposterous".
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/...bulls-rockets-nba-finals-we-never-got-to-see/
"Sometimes people say to me, 'If Michael had stayed, you guys would've won eight in a row.' That's the most preposterous thing I have ever heard. People have no idea how emotionally draining it is for a team to keep winning," Kerr told David Aldridge and Michael Lee of the Athletic.
Wouldn't matter. YOu do realize they won 3 straight----twice, right? From 1990-1999, the Bulls won 6 titles. You think its ridiculous to think had MJ not retired, they would have also won in 94 , 95 and 99?
Why?
![[laughing]](http://l.yimg.com/j/assets/img/emoticons/classic/laugh.r191677.gif "Laughing [laughing]")
......Been a Pacers fan my entire life. But I grew up in the era of Jordan. That dude was a killer. He won. To say its ridiculous is undermining just how good the dude was.BTW, what NBA team from Kentucky do you root for?
![[winking]](http://l.yimg.com/j/assets/img/emoticons/classic/wink.r191677.gif "Winking [winking]")
I don't think this would have been THE issue. If any at all. WE have all seen how mentally tough the guy was. Hell its as much of his legacy, than his dunking. He stayed healthy through the beating the Pistons gave him...So I don't see that as a huge issue either; though, getting older does change things. TBH, no one will ever know. BUT...I sure as hell wouldn't bet against the guy.
You keep saying things everyone knows as if it proves a point.
The reason I said that that "I should have said 4-5" instead of "3-4" is because trolls like you lack the ability to understand subtlety and nuance.
For example, instead of saying, "It's been 3 decades since IU won a title," I have to be specific and say, "It's been 33 years 1 month, and 2 weeks since IU won a title."
Because I know if I mentioned "30 years", you'd be quick to come in and point out exactly how long it had been, because certainly, no Kentucky fan would be as smart as you.
Go polish your sweet 16 ring.
Sure..... Sure there buddy.No you should have said 4 or 5 because it was the better answer. Don't lay blame at someone else's feet for your stupidity..
I understand things just fine there fella. I understand that from 1990-1999, Jordan and the Bulls won 6 NBA titles. Two of three times they didn't win it---Jordan wasn't a Bull. Albeit he did come back late, playing 18 games. But I think you get my drift.
Look, dude, your opinion is no more validated than mine. I mean what makes your statement absolute? I mean do you know for FACT that had MJ not retired, the Bulls would not have won 7 or 8 straight? Because if you do not---which you don't, then your opinion is no more dumber than mine....Right?
Also, its cute. The SW 16 thingy. I mean---damn, ain't head that one before...
Michael Jordan was incredible. Combination of physical ability, competitive drive, and marketability at the dawn of athlete marketability. That's a combo that will never be topped. Honestly the only person that has a chance to be close is Zion, and that's only because he entered the league with a giant social media following. Something never before done. But pretty clear he lacks all other areas.
Kobe was the closest thing to Michael. But there can only be one first.
LeBron is probably the most physically gifted basketball player ever. If he has half the spirit of Jordan, he'd win the title every year.
As a player only, Jordan was incredible but not the goat. Chamberlain is clearly better. Kareem and bird probably better. Jordan fell into that perfect timing where he was the last dynasty and all the others aged out. But just before the new era free agent mercenary market where teams don't stay together long enough for synergy.
Kobe was the closest thing to Michael. But there can only be one first.
LeBron is probably the most physically gifted basketball player ever. If he has half the spirit of Jordan, he'd win the title every year.
As a player only, Jordan was incredible but not the goat. Chamberlain is clearly better. Kareem and bird probably better. Jordan fell into that perfect timing where he was the last dynasty and all the others aged out. But just before the new era free agent mercenary market where teams don't stay together long enough for synergy.
Matt Jones says a lot of stupid stuff. I mean a LOT. The amount of dumb takes and misinformation he spews is dizzying.
It is all hypothetical but to say it couldn't or wouldn't have happened is just as ridiculous.
Jordan walked away at 30 years old. He was essentially out two seasons in the prime of his career...not to mention Pippen was like 28 at the time. They were coming off a 3 peat already.
There is no reason to say they wouldn't have done it either.
The Wilt over Jordan thing is a tired argument and Bird/Kareem is no better.
Look at the stats. Outside of rebounding Jordan beats Wilt in almost every stat, including titles by 3X. This is with a very similar longevity.
Stats are not everything in totality. LeBron has already played 200 more games than Jordan for example...but it is easy to compare Wilt and Jordan as they played almost the exact length of time.
Michael Jordan is the most complete basketball player ever. Forgetting his offensive prowess and titles the guy was 9X First Team Defensive All NBA and one time POY.
https://www.landofbasketball.com/player_comparison/wilt_chamberlain_vs_michael_jordan.htm
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He went on a rant Friday saying people from Jordan's era couldn't even get on the floor today and that the Warriors team from a couple of years ago would absolutely beat those Bulls teams because they shoot so many 3's that there would be no way for the Bulls to slow them down.
Wilt Chamberlain might have something to say about that. He was 7'1" with a 48" vertical jump. He ran a 4.6 40 yard dash and bench pressed 500 lbs. He dominated the game to the point that everyone discredits his accomplishments, many records of which still stand today, by saying "He couldn't do that in todays game".
And scoring. And assists. And blocks. I didn't bother checking steals. His stats are the most dominant of any in nba history by far.
That's a fair point. I got tunnel vision in the physical comparison between Jordan and LeBron
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I would never say it "couldn't" have happened.
But just looking at what actually happens in sports, what actually happened in this situation, and even what Kerr (who is the head coach of the most recent team to dominate the NBA) has said on the topic, it make the most sense to say, "you know what, these guys didn't win 8 straight titles, and they wouldn't have won 8 straight titles".
Listen to Jordan himself. Listen to his reasoning for retiring. He was done in '93. He, himself, had lost the motivation to play.
To pretend like that wouldn't have been a factor going forward is naïve.
NBA Championships and Seasons
NBA Championships
Wilt Chamberlain 2
Michael Jordan 6
NBA Seasons
Wilt Chamberlain 14
Michael Jordan 15
Playoffs Played
Wilt Chamberlain 13
Michael Jordan 13
All-Star Games
Wilt Chamberlain 13
Michael Jordan 14
Honors and Awards
Season MVP
Wilt Chamberlain 4
Michael Jordan 5
Finals MVP
Wilt Chamberlain 1
Michael Jordan 6
All-NBA First Team
Wilt Chamberlain 7
Michael Jordan 10
All-NBA Teams (Total Selections)
Wilt Chamberlain 10
Michael Jordan 11
All-Defensive 1st Team
Wilt Chamberlain 2
Michael Jordan 9
All-Defensive Teams (Total Selections)
Wilt Chamberlain 2
Michael Jordan 9
Defensive Player of The Year
Wilt Chamberlain 0
Michael Jordan 1
Scoring Leader
Wilt Chamberlain 7
Michael Jordan 10
Rebounds Leader
Wilt Chamberlain 11
Michael Jordan 0
Assists Leader
Wilt Chamberlain 1
Michael Jordan 0
Steals Leader
Wilt Chamberlain 0
Michael Jordan 3
Rookie of The Year
Wilt Chamberlain 1
Michael Jordan 1
Stats Per Game
Points Per Game
Wilt Chamberlain 30.1
Michael Jordan 30.1
Rebounds Per Game
Wilt Chamberlain 22.9
Michael Jordan 6.2
Assists Per Game
Wilt Chamberlain 4.4
Michael Jordan 5.3
Steals Per Game
Wilt Chamberlain - n/a
Michael Jordan 2.3
Wilt Chamberlain -n/a
Michael Jordan 0.8
Totals Stats
Total Points
Wilt Chamberlain 31,419
Michael Jordan 32,292
Total Rebounds
Wilt Chamberlain 23,924
Michael Jordan 6,672
Total Assists
Wilt Chamberlain 4,643
Michael Jordan 5,633
Total Steals
Wilt Chamberlain - n/a
Michael Jordan 2,514
Total Blocks
Wilt Chamberlain - n/a
Michael Jordan 893
Total Games
Wilt Chamberlain 1,045
Michael Jordan 1,072
His annual take from them even now is mind blowing. Estimated at $130 million in 2019.
If you go by championships, then Russell is better. So is Horry. And dilfer is better than Marino. We both know that isn't a good measure.
Wilts statistics are mind-blowing. He led the league one season in assists. Still the only center to do so.
100 point game. Btw he averaged over 50ppg that season.
In the history of the NBA there are only 74 games with a player scoring 60+ times. Wilt has 32 of those himself. Jordan has 5.
Blocks and steals weren't recorded back then. But based on archive video footage, the games available for viewing show Wilt averaged 8.1 blocks per game.
You can read more about his ridiculous stats here among other places.
Statistically it just isn't even a comparison.
Totally different game in those days. No 3 point line and Wilt was a solid 3-5" taller than most guys he was going up against.
Greatest Center ever, yes. Most complete and best player, no.
Jordan carried his teams to titles. He had a great sidekick and good role players but so did Wilt. He played with West, Baylor among others. Jordan made his team champions.
You do realize he played in the golden era of centers? He wasn't just taller than everyone. He played against bill Russel and Kareem. Two others in the mix for greatest of all time. This isn't the Kareem that played till he couldn't even go down the court on some offensive possessions.
Having a 3 or line would've helped wilt by creating more spacing.
How is Jordan more well rounded? The only thing he could do better is shoot from the perimeter and dribble. Everything else is in wilts favor.
Scottie pippen is a top 50 all time player. Jordan didn't win anything until pippen arrived. And even then required high level power forwards before they were championship quality.
I'm not taking anything away from Jordan. But he just isn't the greatest ever
Wilt averaged 46 minutes per game over the course of his career, and in 1962, Wilt only sat out EIGHT MINUTES of the ENTIRE SEASON. He was ejected with two technicals with eight minutes to go in one game, but played every minute (including overtimes) of each of the other 79 games that season. As a result of playing more minutes of overtime than he sat out during regulation, Wilt averaged 48.5 minutes per game that year, even though a regulation game is only 48 minutes.
To be so statistically dominant, Wilt sure didn’t do a lot of winning. You would think if he were so dominant it would translate to winning. That’s all to say stats don’t tell the whole story.
All Wilt has is his statistical achievements, like the 50 points a game season. But go back and look at who won MVP for that very season. Hint, it wasn’t Wilt. And that is when it was voted on by the players, not the writers.
All Wilt has is his statistical achievements, like the 50 points a game season. But go back and look at who won MVP for that very season. Hint, it wasn’t Wilt. And that is when it was voted on by the players, not the writers.
Comparing Jordan to Lebron is one thing but comparing him to Wilt is the most apples to oranges debate I can imagine as far as basketball players. Different positions, different eras, different teams. It’s impossible to know how either would have fared in the other’s shoes.
I can comfortably say that Jordan is the best I’ve seen in my opinion. But to unequivocally put one guy at the #1 spot and say “your differing opinion is wrong” is just silly and arbitrary.
I can comfortably say that Jordan is the best I’ve seen in my opinion. But to unequivocally put one guy at the #1 spot and say “your differing opinion is wrong” is just silly and arbitrary.
People need to look at Wilt total stats . The guy was playing damn near 48 minutes a game in a few of those seasons . It’s safe to say he’s not doing that in today’s game . He would still be very good but not those insane numbers
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