The Last Dance on at 9 pm ET

[UK90]

Seems like from the doc Krause was kind of picked on for the way he looked . Maybe that pissed him off some .

Honestly, I think this may have a lot to do with it. He was a short fat dumpy Jewish nerdy dude constantly surrounded by uber jocks who'd won the genetic lottery.

And even though he was the one who discovered guys like Phil Jackson and Pippen and built the team, he was still treated with disdain and nobody would give him credit because ...well, who wants to give sports credit to the little dumpy nerd who never actually played the game?

I suspect his insecurities over those issues have plenty to do with his dumbassed 98 moves profiled in this doc.

 

[ULisnotmyman]

If you’re complaining about this or refusing to watch during these times, you’re not very bright and really are missing out.

Oh, and Jordan > anybody you want to put here

 

[Ronwasourlastchance]

If you’re complaining about this or refusing to watch during these times, you’re not very bright and really are missing out.

Oh, and Jordan > anybody you want to put here

Couldn't agree more. The first 3 parts were great. The part 4 was a bit of a letdown for me.

 

[MoneyMuntz]

I mean, has to be. No one can be that stupid. GOAT, still going strong, tells you---"I will not play for another coach". And look, this ain't just some coach. Dude at this point has won 5 titles. He has convinced MJ that playing within a concept, is what is best----Yeah. He convicned the greatest---he didn't need to be the greatest. And it worked to the tune of 5 titles, and 2, 3-peats.

Just has to be more. Had Phil returned, so does Mike...so does Pippen...Probably Rodman...I mean, that team wins a 4th straight. Who knows after that.

I mean, who knows if they would’ve won in ‘99, but it’s a damn travesty that we never got to witness what Jordan could’ve done for another season. For as great and as decorated as Jordan is, there will always be a “what-if” element in the history books. At some point his age and determination would have given out, but unlike all of the other greats, his career ended prematurely while he was still the best in the league.

 

[Cawood86]

If you were MJ---what type of ego would you have? All greats have them some ego, brother. I look at him like this:

He sacrificed his game, for the betterment of the team. THink about that...If he doesn't buy in to the triangle, and Phils system, well, this documentary doesn't exist.

All of the greats do have some ego, his is beyond ego, it's narcissism to the enth degree. It's never enough. 10 episodes to stroke his ego? Gimme a break.
How many times does he need reassured of his place in history? Being good at basketball doesn't excuse someone of being bad at being a human being in most other aspects.
Every great player that wants to win makes sacrifices for the team. Magic did. Bird did. Why is this so amazing that Jordan did?

 

[Ronwasourlastchance]

All of the greats do have some ego, his is beyond ego, it's narcissism to the enth degree. It's never enough. 10 episodes to stroke his ego? Gimme a break.
How many times does he need reassured of his place in history? Being good at basketball doesn't excuse someone of being bad at being a human being in most other aspects.
Every great player that wants to win makes sacrifices for the team. Magic did. Bird did. Why is this so amazing that Jordan did?

His competitiveness has to be appreciated. I don't know how you can watch the episode where he broke his foot and not at least respect the guy. "Depends how bad the f'n headache is"

 

[Cawood86]

His competitiveness has to be appreciated. I don't know how you can watch the episode where he broke his foot and not at least respect the guy. "Depends how bad the f'n headache is"

His will and desire to win is never in question as far as I'm concerned. I am not questioning his ability or his competitiveness. Anyone with a correctly functioning brain can see how great of a player Jordan was. That can never be denied.

 

[IUfanBorden]

All of the greats do have some ego, his is beyond ego, it's narcissism to the enth degree. It's never enough. 10 episodes to stroke his ego? Gimme a break.
How many times does he need reassured of his place in history? Being good at basketball doesn't excuse someone of being bad at being a human being in most other aspects.
Every great player that wants to win makes sacrifices for the team. Magic did. Bird did. Why is this so amazing that Jordan did?

I take it you dislike Jordan? I mean, ESPN ASKED to do this...Its not like Jordan said, hey, ESPN, wanna follow us around? I doubt he needs reassured....He won more titles than Magic, and Bird. Also, what did Bird give up, or Magic, to make the Celts/Lakers better? Did they adhere to a totally different offensive scheme, that basically in some sense, "took the ball at out of their hands"? If they did---thats news to me.

Bad human being? Does this sound like a bad human being:

http://www.nba.com/article/2019/02/15/jordan-week-michael-jordan-philanthropy

 

[IUfanBorden]

I mean, who knows if they would’ve won in ‘99, but it’s a damn travesty that we never got to witness what Jordan could’ve done for another season. For as great and as decorated as Jordan is, there will always be a “what-if” element in the history books. At some point his age and determination would have given out, but unlike all of the other greats, his career ended prematurely while he was still the best in the league.

True....I mean the "what-if's" are endless....Say he never retires...I mean one could agrue the Bulls could have won 8, 9 or 10 straight titles. I'd certainly say 6 straight was attainable.

 

[IUfanBorden]

His competitiveness has to be appreciated. I don't know how you can watch the episode where he broke his foot and not at least respect the guy. "Depends how bad the f'n headache is"

That quote was awesome...."If you had a headache and I gave you a bnottle with 10 pills in it, and told you that 9 would work, but one would kill you. Would you take it'?
Jordan: "depends on how bad the $%%$ headache is".

 

[IUfanBorden]

Here's the dislike with Jordan....Dude won. People don't like that. TBH, its why people don't like the UK's, Dukes, etc, etc....If UK and Duke were the "Charles Barkley's" of the NBA, everyone would love them.

Winning creates a problem with a guy like Jordan. It leaves nothing else to argue...

1. Sure he was a great scorer, but.........


2. Sure he was a great competitor, but.........

3. Sure he was this or that, but........

He didn't win.

Then he did.

Now what?

Oh, yeah---He's a shitty person, with a big ego...

 

[MoneyMuntz]

I take it you dislike Jordan? I mean, ESPN ASKED to do this...Its not like Jordan said, hey, ESPN, wanna follow us around? I doubt he needs reassured....He won more titles than Magic, and Bird. Also, what did Bird give up, or Magic, to make the Celts/Lakers better? Did they adhere to a totally different offensive scheme, that basically in some sense, "took the ball at out of their hands"? If they did---thats news to me.

Bad human being? Does this sound like a bad human being:

http://www.nba.com/article/2019/02/15/jordan-week-michael-jordan-philanthropy

Yeah, this “bad human being” nonsense is always propagated by Jordan haters as some way to diminish his greatness. I’m not sure what the baseline is to call someone a bad person but I wouldn’t put someone with no criminal history on that list. Maybe he isn’t the most accommodating to fans or kind to his teammates, but that doesn’t make someone a bad person. By virtually any measure, Donald Trump would be considered a much worse human being, and he was elected president. Sounds like people just want to invoke it when it benefits their opinion.

 

[Ed323232]

Things I’ve always known:

Jordan’s body control is beyond comparison
Rodman just wanted to be loved. He needed a strong coach.
The pistons were bitches. Especially Laimbeer and Thomas.
Phil Jackson was a genius.

Those 80-90’s teams would physically kill team today. Could you see curry take the ball to the hole against the bulls or pistons.

Rodman asking to take a vacation mid season. Dude was crazy. Didn’t realized he studied rebounding as much as he did.

 

[IUfanBorden]

Yeah, this “bad human being” nonsense is always propagated by Jordan haters as some way to diminish his greatness. I’m not sure what the baseline is to call someone a bad person but I wouldn’t put someone with no criminal history on that list. Maybe he isn’t the most accommodating to fans or kind to his teammates, but that doesn’t make someone a bad person. By virtually any measure, Donald Trump would be considered a much worse human being, and he was elected president. Sounds like people just want to invoke it when it benefits their opinion.

Jordan has given millions upon millions, and facilitated millions more, for charities. But look, people always expect people of his financial status to do more....Why?

Yeah he was a dick....But he wanted to win. Most of the guys who played along side him, were thankful they did. SHit look at the props he gave Rodman---Called him one of the smartest players he EVER played with. I mean he said, EVER. Rodman.

Maybe not as accommodating to fans as some feel he should have been. BUT, I mean, put yourself in his shoes. His celebrity status...I mean, how accommodating would you be after years of this?

Here's someting told about MJ that I loved:

When asked about why he played so hard, every game....

"because there is probably someone in the stands who's never seen me play. I didn't want them walking away disappointed....Saying, yeah---I saw him play and he only scored 12 points...

Or on why he dressed so nice...

"because I knew someone in a lobby was going to see me for the first and maybe only time...I wanted to leave a good impression."

Dude cared what his fans thought...

Yeah, bad person indeed.

 

[kybloo92]

She still looked good for 48 and a lot of work done..

 

[UKBrassowTipIN]

Lol the ref just drags him off the court




Reminds me of Rex's post

 

[UKBrassowTipIN]

I mean, who knows if they would’ve won in ‘99, but it’s a damn travesty that we never got to witness what Jordan could’ve done for another season. For as great and as decorated as Jordan is, there will always be a “what-if” element in the history books. At some point his age and determination would have given out, but unlike all of the other greats, his career ended prematurely while he was still the best in the league.

Yeah, who knows, but the following season was a damn mess. That's when they had the lock out, which was owner induced, and Jordan didn't announce his retirement until January of 99. The lockout occurred sometime in the summer right after the 98 finals and lasted all the way up until Feb. But he's said as much that he wasn't mentally into it anymore. His comeback for the wizards wasn't to win titles, obviously, it was just to prove to himself he could still play.

@IUfanBorden as far as if Phil came back, Jordan said as much it wouldn't have made a difference
From WaPo in 99:
Jordan stressed that even if Phil Jackson were still coaching the Bulls, he wouldn't be playing.

"I retired the first time when Phil was coach," he said. "Even with Phil as coach I would have had a hard time finding the challenges."

 

[BigBlue1992]

I still don’t quite get the Jerry Krause and Phil Jackson shit .

I wish Krause was alive to tell his side . There has to be something they aren’t telling us .

They’ve already been over this. It wasn’t necessarily just Phil Jackson. The man was picked on and embarrassed in front of the whole team by Jordan and Pippen.

Someone with that much power is eventually gonna let his ego get the best of him even if it means having to break it up and start new again.

No telling what they were doing to him that we’ll never know about. He’s not here to tell his side.

 

[Seth_C]

I mean, who knows if they would’ve won in ‘99, but it’s a damn travesty that we never got to witness what Jordan could’ve done for another season. For as great and as decorated as Jordan is, there will always be a “what-if” element in the history books. At some point his age and determination would have given out, but unlike all of the other greats, his career ended prematurely while he was still the best in the league.

I mean, the guy came back at age 38 after taking 3 years off from professional basketball and was statistically still about 70% as good as before. Had he not retired, twice, he could have had a ring for every finger.

 

[Cawood86]

I take it you dislike Jordan? I mean, ESPN ASKED to do this...Its not like Jordan said, hey, ESPN, wanna follow us around? I doubt he needs reassured....He won more titles than Magic, and Bird. Also, what did Bird give up, or Magic, to make the Celts/Lakers better? Did they adhere to a totally different offensive scheme, that basically in some sense, "took the ball at out of their hands"? If they did---thats news to me.

Bad human being? Does this sound like a bad human being:

http://www.nba.com/article/2019/02/15/jordan-week-michael-jordan-philanthropy

I see you're a little defensive of your hero and know nothing about Bird or Magic.
Have a nice day.

 

[Smashcat]

She still looked good for 48 and a lot of work done..

She was always a big turn-on for me but that filler in her face isn't a good look.

 

[AlbanyWildCat]

Funny thing is, Jordan would be considered a good owner if he had someone like Jerry Krause as a GM on his Bobcats....As we have it now, Jordan's greatness on the court has not translated well at all with being a NBA owner.

 

[SpamburgerHamburger]

This doc has been just freaking great so far.

 

[Cowtown Cat]

Honestly, I think this may have a lot to do with it. He was a short fat dumpy Jewish nerdy dude constantly surrounded by uber jocks who'd won the genetic lottery.

And even though he was the one who discovered guys like Phil Jackson and Pippen and built the team, he was still treated with disdain and nobody would give him credit because ...well, who wants to give sports credit to the short dumpy fat nerd who never actually played the game?

I suspect his insecurities over those issues have plenty to do with his dumbassed 98 moves profiled in this doc.

This is exactly what it was. The dude suffered from “little man syndrome” to the utmost. He thought he deserved recognition, more than he actually received. Broke up arguably the best NBA team of all time because he was butt hurt. What a DUMBASS!

 

[Cowtown Cat]

She was always a big turn-on for me but that filler in her face isn't a good look.

She’s one FINE woman! Good Lord!

 

[Cowtown Cat]

Things I’ve always known:

Jordan’s body control is beyond comparison
Rodman just wanted to be loved. He needed a strong coach.
The pistons were bitches. Especially Laimbeer and Thomas.
Phil Jackson was a genius.

Those 80-90’s teams would physically kill team today. Could you see curry take the ball to the hole against the bulls or pistons.

Rodman asking to take a vacation mid season. Dude was crazy. Didn’t realized he studied rebounding as much as he did.

From the time Rodman signed with the Spurs, he was my favorite player in the league, from that point on. Played HARD every possession, was willing to do all the dirty work to win, great teammate and was nuttier than squirrel shit. He did not give a ****.

 

[Smashcat]

 

[Smashcat]

She’s one FINE woman! Good Lord!

Not bad for a Cincinnati girl.

 

[AlbanyWildCat]

This is exactly what it was. The dude suffered from “little man syndrome” to the utmost. He thought he deserved recognition, more than he actually received. Broke up arguably the best NBA team of all time because he was butt hurt. What a DUMBASS!

Reinsdorf deserves criticism just as much. If he didn't like the way his employee was doing his work, then he should have replaced him. I think Krause is an easy target, but he is far from the only reason. Krause continued to be the GM of the Bulls long after Jordan left.

 

[UKWildcats#8]

The 80s and 90s were definitely great eras for the NBA. Unfortunately for me I only remember the last few years of Jordan's run with the Bulls due to my age.

People like to rag on the current NBA but we have had some epic series and champions over the years. The 2011 Mavs beating the super team Heat was epic, as was the 2019 Raptors beating the Warriors and who can forget the 2016 Cavs upsetting the 73 win Warriors after falling behind 3 games to 1 (winning 2 of the 3 straight on the road in GS!).

I do think the 2000s decade was a bit underwhelming as the Lakers and Spurs pretty much ran that show with the Lakers winning in 2000, 2001, 2002, 2009, 2010 with Spurs winning in 2003, 2005, 2007. We did have the upset of the Pistons over Lakers "Dream Team" in 2004, and the 2005 Pistons vs. Spurs was an epic series. Otherwise we had just the Heat in 2006 and Celtics in 2008 that were not named Lakers or Spurs NBA Champs for 8/11 seasons.

 

[Baller Cal]

Great series when it's not about Jordan. Lots of other stuff going on that's not about MJ. Every time they talk to Jordan, all he can say is F this and F that. Hate the guy, love the series.

 

[Cowtown Cat]

Not bad for a Cincinnati girl.

Oh that’s right! Good call!

 

[UK90]

Every time they talk to Jordan, all he can say is F this and F that.

I've noticed that too. Not only has ESPN broken the F-word barrier for this doc, but it almost seems like they're going out of their way to get in as many F-bombs as possible.

I get the impression that they must be telling these guys before the interviews "It's OK to say f*ck for this one, so please say f*ck as many times as you want..."

 

[Cawood86]

Great series when it's not about Jordan. Lots of other stuff going on that's not about MJ. Every time they talk to Jordan, all he can say is F this and F that. Hate the guy, love the series.

If it ain't about him, he's not interested. I may watch it one day. I've seen bits and pieces. I just can't take his ego. Me, me ,me.

 

[Cowtown Cat]

The 80s and 90s were definitely great eras for the NBA. Unfortunately for me I only remember the last few years of Jordan's run with the Bulls due to my age.

People like to rag on the current NBA but we have had some epic series and champions over the years. The 2011 Mavs beating the super team Heat was epic, as was the 2019 Raptors beating the Warriors and who can forget the 2016 Cavs upsetting the 73 win Warriors after falling behind 3 games to 1 (winning 2 of the 3 straight on the road in GS!).

I do think the 2000s decade was a bit underwhelming as the Lakers and Spurs pretty much ran that show with the Lakers winning in 2000, 2001, 2002, 2009, 2010 with Spurs winning in 2003, 2005, 2007. We did have the upset of the Pistons over Lakers "Dream Team" in 2004, and the 2005 Pistons vs. Spurs was an epic series. Otherwise we had just the Heat in 2006 and Celtics in 2008 that were not named Lakers or Spurs NBA Champs for 8/11 seasons.

That 2004 Pistons team was a great team. I loved that team. Prince was the defensive catalyst for them. He was assigned the best scorer in each series they played in. They don’t sniff a title without Tayshaun, period.

That team probably had the most chemistry of any team since at least 2000. Unreal how connected they were. Larry Brown did a hell of a coaching job with that team. They beat a Lakers team that featured four HOFers. After Game 1, they beat them four straight too. Love it!

 

[Baller Cal]

I've noticed that too. Not only has ESPN broken the F-word barrier for this doc, but it almost seems like they're going out of their way to get in as many F-bombs as possible.

I kinda get the impression that they must be telling these guys before the interviews "It's OK to say f*ck for this one, so please say f*ck as many times as you want..."

It's bizarre. I'm still looking around saying "how is ESPN getting away with this on regular cable???"

 

[Cawood86]

I've noticed that too. Not only has ESPN broken the F-word barrier for this doc, but it almost seems like they're going out of their way to get in as many F-bombs as possible.

I kinda get the impression that they must be telling these guys before the interviews "It's OK to say f*ck for this one, so please say f*ck as much as you want..."

ESPN used to be something worth watching.

 

[Cawood86]

It's bizarre. I'm still looking around saying "how is ESPN getting away with this on regular cable???"

To me, someone who constantly talks like that and can't say a sentence without vulgar profanity lacks intelligence.
You aren't able to express yourself and make your point without many, many F bombs. You're lacking.

 

[UK90]

ESPN used to be something worth watching.

Well, this is worth watching. The documentary has been quite entertaining.

But its gratuitous use of the F-word has been strange. I'd never heard that word used on ESPN before this doc, but now suddenly its being said constantly in every interview.

 

[Cawood86]

Well, this is worth watching. The documentary has been quite entertaining.

But its gratuitous use of the F-word has been strange. I'd never heard that word used on ESPN before this doc, but now suddenly its being said constantly in every interview.

To each his own