Taylor Swift - Would we have even heard of her if she existed in the 70's?

[DrH. Lecter]

I initially thought this was going to devolve into another political thread but, thankfully, it has not.

Are we really saying her music is too "simple". My brother, you listed Shinedown as one of your 3 favorite bands. Pop is inherently simplified because it appeals to a mass audience. It's the reason metalheads like myself loathed it forever until we realized it wasn't for us and to stay in our lane.

In the same way, Shinedown is just a pop version of hard rock. Compared to someone like SOAD (who isn't terribly difficult themselves with their drop tunings, but still infinitely more musical) Shinedown is hard rock Taylor Swift, with about 1/1000 of the following. Then you have a band like Metallica that inspired 100 million guitar players in their wake. There's just levels to every genre of music.

You compared TS to Pink Floyd, you can't compare anyone to Pink Floyd. They are 1 of 1 in an era full of bands we thought were unique. TS is packaged to be sold to everyone. Pink Floyd did that in spite of being as inaccessible to anyone not on acid.

TS is equal parts marketing and song writing. It's not for me, and I do not enjoy it. My 6 year old daughter does and, honestly, I'd prefer that over someone who is either A.) much more vulgar and constantly showing 98.9% of their body or B.) A horrible influence generally (drug addled, etc.).

There were a ton of shitty "good" bands in the 70's (and 80's, 90's, aughts, today etc.) and, in spite of the internet making music much easier to get to the masses, I'd argue it's even harder to break through now because of that ability to choose nearly anything else. It's why I'm convinced that many of the big stars are manufactured (you can't tell me the Chappell Roan artist isn't a plant). The main difference now is that social media is taking the place of radio for reaching listeners and may be the only "organic" growth of an artist we see now.

But music is wildly subjective. Always has been and will be. It's frustrating that your favorite band is underground (I love you Closure in Moscow) or barely made it above water (you too Mars Volta), but you gotta take that and enjoy what you can from it and do so not at the expense of popular artists. Like, why did Jennifer Lopez sell 80 million records. By nearly any metric you can muster, she is a horrible singer who used connections in the industry to "sell" her "music". Yet, there she is, 80 million records sold.

My musical taste is across the board. I play guitar, E Standard tuned. I am not generally a drop tuned fan although it is what you are going to get with metal. I am more Major than Minor key in my taste. That is why I was less inclined to be a Pink Floyd fan. I do however listen to their stuff in amazement. David Gilmour...wow.

I like Serj Tankian who I think is underrated, and I like ABBA so sue me.

 

[Irish Beck]

My musical taste is across the board. I play guitar, E Standard tuned. I am not generally a drop tuned fan although it is what you are going to get with metal. I am more Major than Minor key in my taste. That is why I was less inclined to be a Pink Floyd fan. I do however listen to their stuff in amazement. David Gilmour...wow.

I like Serj Tankian who I think is underrated, and I like ABBA so sue me.

Abba is amazing, it helps that they have a ton of natural talent. Serj is a unique vocalist, for sure, and Daron only makes their music more unique. I love SOAD, in small portions.

My only argument was that most any popular music, regardless of genre, is going to inherently be "simple" and that shouldn't be used as a detriment to any popular artist.

 

[christophero]

She would have been a star in the 70's I think. If the Carpenters or John Denver (who I both like now that I am older) can be two of the biggest selling acts of the decade so could TS.

 

[UKWildcats1987]

Hard to say as it was a different era. I think she still would have been successful but not to the level she is today. The internet and social media era make her way more popular than she would have been 50 years ago IMO.

I agree as well that she doesn't really have any peers to compete with. I mean beonce was there for a while but she's doing random country albums now so I think she's not as popular as she used to be (still she is still very popular though).

I see KL is performing at the Super Bowl 2nite. Dude has 22 grammies and I can't even be sure I know any of his songs. Ironically the one song I do know him from is TS Bad Blood from years ago. Just speaks to how old and out of touch I am.

Usher and Luda and Eminem and 50 cent and snoop and Dre, etc from some of the halftime n the last few years were more for me though.

 

[WayneDougan]

Debbie Boone was not popular in the 70s. Her father was famous so she was fed a song. A one hit wonder. The song was embraced by religious radio and top 40. It's longevity on the pop chart has nothing to do with it.

How many #1 singles did Pink Floyd have? So Debbie Boone was their equal?

Again, your stupid f’ing question was “Would we have even heard of her if she existed in the 70's?”

 

[cole854]

My only argument was that most any popular music, regardless of genre, is going to inherently be "simple"

That couldn't be further from the truth. Perhaps your definition of simple are See Spot Run lyrics with a teenage fan base who was sold a bill of goods by an outstanding marketing program.

Obvious by many of these comments, that my superior tastes in multiple genres dwarf most. Admitted, every successful artist has their simplistic material but not an entire catalog that is pushed down your throat by mainstream radio.

 

[DrH. Lecter]

Again, your stupid f’ing question was “Would we have even heard of her if she existed in the 70's?”

To the degree we've heard of Disco Duck and a Pet Rock....I suppose you are correct we may have heard of her.

 

[WayneDougan]

To the degree we've heard of Disco Duck and a Pet Rock....I suppose you are correct we may have heard of her.

Taylor Swift is as prolific a music writer as any woman has ever been.

 

[Dore95]

One thing I know is that we would have never heard of f’ing Shinedown in the 70s.

 

[AmericanDragon]

The disco era the golden era of music?

L
O
L

 

[AmericanDragon]

Good lord it’s okay to say that she makes good music. I promise you it isn’t going to prevent you from being masculine. It doesn’t make you automatically gay to say she’s good at what she does. I will never understand why that chicks fame makes these old ass dudes so insecure.

Because it reminds them of how mediocre they are

 

[Mash 2.4]

Yeah. Most of us only listen to classic rock. There was a shit ton of garbage on the radio in the 70’s and 80’s as well. I respect Taylor Swifts business acumen and work ethic even if i don’t listen to her. However the song she did with Bon Iver is a really good song and holds up with about any ballad from my generation.

 

[DrH. Lecter]

However the song she did with Bon Iver is a really good song and holds up with about any ballad from my generation.

Oh really. LOL. So sad to hear that.

 

[DrH. Lecter]

The disco era the golden era of music?

L
O
L

A sentence said by no one ever

 

[DrH. Lecter]

Taylor Swift is as prolific a music writer as any woman has ever been.

In the same way that wild hogs are prolific in the southwest.

 

[Irish Beck]

Alright, we get it, you don't like her or her music.

Just don't conflate that with some lack of talent or business acumen somehow meaning she would be irrelevant in other eras. This is about as foolish a comparison as saying Larry Bird couldn't play in the modern NBA (along with the modern sports science, youth scene, etc.) or Lebron (who is basically a TE) couldn't play in the physical era of the 80's and 90's.

All of these examples include people that are the results of their era and have achieved greatness, greatness is often universal.

 

[WayneDougan]

In the same way that wild hogs are prolific in the southwest.

There’s a reason only criminals and weirdos love heavy metal.

 

[kyeric]

I always love music threads and this is no exception.

So many people with such certain beliefs about such a subjective topic as good vs bad music.

I think she sucks...for my taste. It ends there.

 

[bigbluedon]

The disco era the golden era of music?

L
O
L

The Disco era occurred during the golden era of music. That’s what should have been said. Not sure where your statement above came from but I thought I would state how it should have been said.

 

[DrH. Lecter]

There’s a reason only criminals and weirdos love heavy metal.

Good point.

Wear a hat and nobody will notice.

 

[Jeff Drummond]

If you don’t listen to her you won’t know her songs. She has plenty of famous songs.

You missed my point. There are many artists I don't actively go out of my way to listen to. Of the biggest, I STILL know a handful of songs. I've never heard anything from her besides the Shake It Off song that I can name. I've probably heard a few others and didn't realize it, but none of them are memorable enough to know by name. My wife reminds me as I type this of a song that says something about never taking you back. So maybe there's 2.

I'm not knocking her. Just saying I don't totally understand the phenomenon.

 

[cole854]

Taylor Swift is as prolific a music writer as any woman has ever been.

Oh lord. SMH.

 

[berniecarbo]

Rough Night for KC: Taylor Swift Looks Confused as She's Booed at Super Bowl (VIDEO) | The Gateway Pundit | by Jordan Conradson

In a surprising turn of events at the Super Bowl, Taylor Swift faced unexpected boos from the crowd, raising questions about celebrity influence in sports. The incident has sparked widespread debate and commentary.

www.thegatewaypundit.com

 

[ryanbruner]

Oh lord. SMH.

Dope analysis. Mindblowing really. Way to break it down.

 

[WayneDougan]

Most No. 1 Hits by a female artist.

1. Mariah Carey - 19
2. Rihanna - 14
3. Madonna, Taylor Swift, The Supremes - 12
4. Whitney Houston - 11
5. Janet Jackson - 10
6. Katy Perry, Ariana Grande, Beyoncé - 9

Yeah, no one would have heard of her had she been competing against bangers like this that went #1 in the 70's.

 

[cole854]

Most No. 1 Hits by a female artist.

1. Mariah Carey - 19
2. Rihanna - 14
3. Madonna, Taylor Swift, The Supremes - 12
4. Whitney Houston - 11
5. Janet Jackson - 10
6. Katy Perry, Ariana Grande, Beyoncé - 9

Yeah, no one would have heard of her had she been competing against bangers like this that went #1 in the 70's.

View embedded media

You told on yourself immediately by listing how may # 1 hits an artist has. You may as well go on and confess that Beyonce deserved the country grammy this year.

You better stick to bubble gum pop and not try to bring actual musicianship to the table.

 

[WayneDougan]

You told on yourself immediately by listing how may # 1 hits an artist has. You may as well go on and confess that Beyonce deserved the country grammy this year.

You better stick to bubble gum pop and not try to bring actual musicianship to the table.

Another dimwitted post by UKO. Not surprised. No. 1 hit status reflect the popularity of a song. All of the female artists listed had extended runs of popularity of more than 10 years. To think that any of them wouldn't be "known" in the 70's is just foolish. If I ranked the voices of all the women on that list, TS has the worst. But for song writing, she is the best.

 

[CaptainBoogerBuns]

The problem with radio today is that they play the same songs over and over again. Put on any classic rock station for example. If someone were trying to get into, say, Zeppelin, then all they will hear are their "hits". I put that in quotes because somewhere down the line someone decided to only play Kashmir, Black Dog, and Stairway to Heaven. It's gotten to the point where I can't stand those songs anymore even though they are my favorite band of all time. Radio is shit today. Streaming music services and youtube has allowed me to find many artists and songs I never would've known about because they don't get airplay. And don't get me started on radio country music. It's complete garbage.

The problem with radio today is deregulation allowing for multiple ownerships in the same markets.

 

[DrH. Lecter]

Another dimwitted post by UKO. Not surprised. No. 1 hit status reflect the popularity of a song. All of the female artists listed had extended runs of popularity of more than 10 years. To think that any of them wouldn't be "known" in the 70's is just foolish. If I ranked the voices of all the women on that list, TS has the worst. But for song writing, she is the best.

Swifty, #1 reflects broad appeal across a wide range of listeners. Exposure. Although quite subjective, many call BoRhap the greatest rock song ever produced....yet....it didnt reach #1 in the US. It is certainly one of the most well known across all age groups 50 years later.
Queens best selling single in the US and its first #1 was "Another One Bites the Dust." How is that possible? Because it also got picked up on Black Radio stations. It crossed over to other genres as well so its broader appeal lifted it to #1.

So your Brand New Key post is just silly.

 

[WayneDougan]

Swifty, #1 reflects broad appeal across a wide range of listeners. Exposure. Although quite subjective, many call BoRhap the greatest rock song ever produced....yet....it didnt reach #1 in the US. It is certainly one of the most well known across all age groups 50 years later.
Queens best selling single in the US and its first #1 was "Another One Bites the Dust." How is that possible? Because it also got picked up on Black Radio stations. It crossed over to other genres as well so its broader appeal lifted it to #1.

So your Brand New Key post is just silly.

Again, your post was would we know who TS was if she was in the 70's. I have provided ample evidence that we would. I don't even know what you are talking about re: your other points.

 

[Irish Beck]

What metric are we allowed to use to show an artist would be popular in an era?

I swear you guys want to argue the subjective when the objective is staring you right in the face. And I'm not entirely convinced telling us Bruce Springsteen and Shinedown are some of your favorite bands will do much to convince us that your subjective taste is good.

 

[DrH. Lecter]

What metric are we allowed to use to show an artist would be popular in an era?

I swear you guys want to argue the subjective when the objective is staring you right in the face. And I'm not entirely convinced telling us Bruce Springsteen and Shinedown are some of your favorite bands will do much to convince us that your subjective taste is good.

Who said Springsteen and Shinedown are some of "your" favorites?

 

[DrH. Lecter]

Again, your post was would we know who TS was if she was in the 70's. I have provided ample evidence that we would. I don't even know what you are talking about re: your other points.

My guy, YOU posted a video from a one hit wonder as proof that TS would be relevant in the 70s. Melanie ('71) had a novelty song that garnered attention due to the double entendre. Nothing more. Disco Duck etc.... Not surprising that I could obliterate your point by posting the BoRhap video that most have seen while observing that it was not a #1 hit in the US. You posted a data point that doesn't add heft to your point.

 

[Irish Beck]

Who said Springsteen and Shinedown are some of "your" favorites?

You listed Shinedown as the first band of who you listen to. We argued with Cole for 10 pages about how Bruce Springsteen is OK but cole seems to think he's the Einstein of music, GOAT and no contest to it.

Objectively speaking, Taylor Swift is one of the most popular artists of her time. The point Wayne is making, that you can't seem to grasp, is that if those awful one hit wonders can be "known" in that era, surely the most popular artist of modern times stands a chance.

But you aren't thinking about it that way, you want to argue the merits of her music and whether she would be this big in the 70s which isn't at all what you originally asked.

 

[hmt5000]

Wasn't Terry Meiners on WQMF? I think he has said that before.

Yep. Uncle Rons asylum. I used to listen to that show while my mom was getting ready for work.... until she heard one of their skits and banned me from listening to that show. I can't believe they got away with some of the stuff they did back then. They put out a best of around '90. it was an eye opener about what 5yo me was listening to. LOL

 

[DrH. Lecter]

You listed Shinedown as the first band of who you listen to. We argued with Cole for 10 pages about how Bruce Springsteen is OK but cole seems to think he's the Einstein of music, GOAT and no contest to it.

Objectively speaking, Taylor Swift is one of the most popular artists of her time. The point Wayne is making, that you can't seem to grasp, is that if those awful one hit wonders can be "known" in that era, surely the most popular artist of modern times stands a chance.

But you aren't thinking about it that way, you want to argue the merits of her music and whether she would be this big in the 70s which isn't at all what you originally asked.

I suppose you missed Metallica and SOAD which preceded Shinedown etc... in a list of several bands of a common era that I enjoy....

You seem to recoil at the mention of Shinedown for some reason. They would seem to fit the metrics of the popularity aspect of this thread, no?

From Wiki:Shinedown has the most number one singles on the Billboard Mainstream Rock charts with 19, and all of their released singles have reached the top five on the chart. Additionally, on June 3, 2021, Shinedown was ranked number one by Billboard on the Greatest of All Time Mainstreams Rock Artists chart released to celebrate the Mainstream Rock chart's 40th anniversary.[1] To date, the band has sold more than 10 million records worldwide.[2][3]

 

[Irish Beck]

I suppose you missed Metallica and SOAD which preceded Shinedown etc... in a list of several bands of a common era that I enjoy....

You seem to recoil at the mention of Shinedown for some reason. They would seem to fit the metrics of the popularity aspect of this thread, no?

From Wiki:Shinedown has the most number one singles on the Billboard Mainstream Rock charts with 19, and all of their released singles have reached the top five on the chart. Additionally, on June 3, 2021, Shinedown was ranked number one by Billboard on the Greatest of All Time Mainstreams Rock Artists chart released to celebrate the Mainstream Rock chart's 40th anniversary.[1] To date, the band has sold more than 10 million records worldwide.[2][3]

Had I started a thread asking if Shinedown would be relevant in the 70s, I suppose that would matter. Given that I haven't, it seems irrelevant to tell me about their historical popularity.

I'd also argue they were only popular because of a cover they made and the fact that the lead singer was married to the daughter of a lynyrd skynyrd band member who helped get them off their feet. Outside of that, their discography is a bit lacking. But we aren't arguing the validity of Shinedown as a band.

I was mostly just ragging on that particular selection as I find Shinedown derivative.

All that said, you still haven't explained how Taylor Swift would be irrelevant in a different era given the overwhelming evidence presented in this thread that she's not only popular but that it didn't take much to be known in the 70s.

What is funny is that I don't particularly like Taylor Swift either. I find her music a bit whiny and overly focused on her personal relationships that ultimately end because she always spills the tea. That being said, Shinedown and Taylor Swift are both proof that popular doesn't always mean good.

 

[DrH. Lecter]

Had I started a thread asking if Shinedown would be relevant in the 70s, I suppose that would matter. Given that I haven't, it seems irrelevant to tell me about their historical popularity.

I'd also argue they were only popular because of a cover they made and the fact that the lead singer was married to the daughter of a lynyrd skynyrd band member who helped get them off their feet. Outside of that, their discography is a bit lacking. But we aren't arguing the validity of Shinedown as a band.

I was mostly just ragging on that particular selection as I find Shinedown derivative.

All that said, you still haven't explained how Taylor Swift would be irrelevant in a different era given the overwhelming evidence presented in this thread that she's not only popular but that it didn't take much to be known in the 70s.

What is funny is that I don't particularly like Taylor Swift either. I find her music a bit whiny and overly focused on her personal relationships that ultimately end because she always spills the tea. That being said, Shinedown and Taylor Swift are both proof that popular doesn't always mean good.

I have no emotional investment in Shinedown, etc.... They were just the first band that came to mind after Metallica and SOAD based on the era. I like the Strokes, Okay Go, QOTSA. In fact I like QOTSA and Wolfmother much more than Shinedown actually. Don't get hung up as you seem to do on Shinedown. In fact, edit my comment to remove Shinedown and replace them with QOTSA. Does that make you happy?

 

[DrH. Lecter]

Had I started a thread asking if Shinedown would be relevant in the 70s, I suppose that would matter. Given that I haven't, it seems irrelevant to tell me about their historical popularity.

I'd also argue they were only popular because of a cover they made and the fact that the lead singer was married to the daughter of a lynyrd skynyrd band member who helped get them off their feet. Outside of that, their discography is a bit lacking. But we aren't arguing the validity of Shinedown as a band.

I was mostly just ragging on that particular selection as I find Shinedown derivative.

All that said, you still haven't explained how Taylor Swift would be irrelevant in a different era given the overwhelming evidence presented in this thread that she's not only popular but that it didn't take much to be known in the 70s.

What is funny is that I don't particularly like Taylor Swift either. I find her music a bit whiny and overly focused on her personal relationships that ultimately end because she always spills the tea. That being said, Shinedown and Taylor Swift are both proof that popular doesn't always mean good.

/2 I still do not believe that she would be relevant in the 70's. Prove me wrong. MTV didnt exist and the radio required a good voice and more than a 3 chord progression for more than 1 hit wonder status. I think the Superdome audience response to her was fairly clear. Her support is early teen females and they were not at the game. The video of her singing with Stevie Nicks was disturbing to say the least. She is very average and SN should not have been subjected to TS's bad karaoke

 

[Irish Beck]

Queens of the Stone Age are a all timer band for me. Love those guys and their current drummer is one of my favorites all time.

You mention 3 chord structure not working in the 70s as if she wouldn't cater her music to what is popular at the time. This is why this is so fool hardy.

Would "Bad Blood" be a hit in 1974? Probably not. Most people would listen to a song like that and wonder how some of those sounds are possible.

The top song of 1974, according to Google, was The Way We Were by Streisand which featured an Orchestra. Would Taylor swift have used an Orchestra back then? Maybe? I bet she would also implement more complex chord structures like you find in another top hit of 1974, John Denvers Annie's Song.

All that said, the whole thread just reads like sour grapes. The woman is wildly popular and has a gigantic fan base. Something she is doing resonates with her fans.

Also, Philadelphia was heavily in the house last night at the super bowl. Those animals booed Santa Claus and have a statue of rocky balboa. I'm not taking their opinion on anything seriously.