FB Recruiting Take it down: The case for cleansing the rafters

[UpstateNYCat]

Your ignorance is blinding UpState. You do realize The OP is a professional writer and one of Rivals leading site managers. Everybody else with an ounce of sense also understood his reference do "Providence to Lexington" had to do with his upgrade in college jobs not Pro.

And it's alright if you little NY types make fun of UK fans, cause we do the same with guys like you who couldn't be more predictable in their take and attitude. You couldn't have been a better example of just why most Kentuckians has to force themselves to tolerate Pitino even when he was winning here. Arrogance personified.

It was sloppy journalism and that wasn't the path he took to UK. Facts be damned apparently. He recognized his mistake.

Hate to disappoint you, but born and raised in Lexington. Only been in NY for 4 years, great people up here, very friendly and it's beautiful up this way. You should visit it sometime.

 

[UpstateNYCat]

There it is. You're a fan of Pitino. You're just ignorant to the rest of what he's said and done according to you. So your post is in of itself ignorant. Nothing else is important.

Fair enough. I don't read every tidbit about UK or UL. I've heard and read a lot about Pitino not embracing UK fans. My personal experience is far different than that.

 

[screwduke]

Only a crazy person would want that banner to stay up.

Take it down!

 

[DodgerDukie1985]

Good read. One line that caught my eye is he's more Louisville now than Kentucky (which is true given that he's been at UL longer and now has a UL tattoo). Reminds me of the line from Star Wars where Obi-Wan tells Luke that Darth Vader is "more machine than man" along with "twisted and evil." I doubt they'll take his banner down, but I wouldn't see it as a big deal if they did. In a way, Pitino will always be up in the rafters at Rupp Arena. The Final Four banner of 1993, National title banner of 1996 and NCAA Runner-Up banner of 1997 means his accomplishments as Kentucky's coach will always be honored.

Off-topic, but this Pitino topic me wonder if the Pro Football Hall of Fame should remove O.J. Simpson's name all his transgressions after his pro career.

 

[crawfords corner]

As the saying goes, What happens in Lexington stays in Lexington. Does this topic at least deserve some discussion? Yes, it does. In the end though, what he accomplished here he did so with respect, passion, and great recruiting. Not to mention assembling arguably the greatest team in college basketball history.

 

[BigBlueCatNation]

I'm beginning to think you are a fan of Pitino and him only. Are you all related or something? This program was great before Pitino was ever born. It was great before he got here, while he was here and since he left. He was lucky to get the job and dumb enough to leave it.

First and foremost, let it be known that I support Kentucky and whatever benefits it regardless.

While Kentucky was certainly great before he got here, its future at that time was VERY uncertain. MAJOR probation was looming, our winningest program of all time fell and we were even ineligible for the NCAAT his first 3 years. Put it this way, you're enjoying the success of the Kentucky brand today in large part because of Rick Pitino. To think otherwise is just asinine.

 

[BigBlueCatNation]

So is there nothing pitino could do to deserve it coming down? Serious question to those who want it to stay.

And I realize it would make us look petty but he's done petty things at our expense since he got to ul.

Honestly, yes. The reason that banner is up there is history and at this point, ancient history. In my opinion the only way that banner should come down is if the NCAA finds something during Pitino's tenure and wins, FF's or the '96 Championship is vacated. Other than that, that banner should stay. As someone said earlier, Pitino's accomplishments during that time were second only to Coach Rupp. Just because he's had several transgressions and now coaches at Louisville has absolutely no bearing on his time here in Lexington.

 

[gojvc]

So why did UK fans feel the need to even engage him? UK won, let him be. I'll tell you why, because a lot of UK fans are childish, can't get over themselves. As good and fantastic as UK fans can be, there's a whole lot that are just as pathetic. Disagree if you like, it's your right to.

You just described every fanbase in America. Are you dumb enough to think Cal doesn't hear things as bad as what Pitino heard and worse virtually everywhere UK plays, and especially at the Yum Center? Cal gets "engaged" everywhere we play but he doesn't make an ass out himself like old "15 seconds" does.

 

[nickhorvathsuxazz]

First and foremost, let it be known that I support Kentucky and whatever benefits it regardless.

While Kentucky was certainly great before he got here, its future at that time was VERY uncertain. MAJOR probation was looming, our winningest program of all time fell and we were even ineligible for the NCAAT his first 3 years. Put it this way, you're enjoying the success of the Kentucky brand today in large part because of Rick Pitino. To think otherwise is just asinine.

Minor point of contention: pRick's 3rd year @ UK ended in the Elite 8. 14-14 (no post season), 22-6 (no postseason), 29-7 (Elite 8 loss to dUKe)

On topic, I've got a question for the "banner stays because of magnitude of accomplishments" crowd: does character not enter the equation at all? If it was revealed that he had been running a Jerry Sandusky type of scenario at UL would you still say leave the banner up, it's UL Rick who's the pedophile, UK Rick was a saint?
I've personally reached my saturation point. (in all honesty this point was the moment he signed on w/UL) My wish is for fans to show up at some future game and the banner simply not be there...no fanfare, no ceremony, just an X-File type of disappearance.

 

[KyFaninNC]

Honestly, yes. The reason that banner is up there is history and at this point, ancient history. In my opinion the only way that banner should come down is if the NCAA finds something during Pitino's tenure and wins, FF's or the '96 Championship is vacated. Other than that, that banner should stay. As someone said earlier, Pitino's accomplishments during that time were second only to Coach Rupp. Just because he's had several transgressions and now coaches at Louisville has absolutely no bearing on his time here in Lexington.

This post says it all. If somebody can't get passed their own hate of Pitino, then they have the problem, not Pitino.

 

[BBUK]

I haven't read the article but I will. Taking Rick's banner down at this juncture is ludicrous. He has done some bad things. He hasn't done something (YET) that warrants removing a banner he earned. Who knows what the future holds for Ricky but at this time no way should his banner come down. His name is soiled badly (His family should be ashamed of him.) and he has soiled U of L more than it was but he hasn't soiled his UK banner,....yet.

 

[Sawnee Cat]

If it must stay up I say cover it with a black cloth. That way those who worship Pitino and what he did for UK can still say it is in our rafters and those of us who loathe him don't have to look at it. Win, Win.

 

[BBUK]

If it must stay up I say cover it with a black cloth. That way those who worship Pitino and what he did for UK can still say it is in our rafters and those of us who loathe him don't have to look at it. Win, Win.

No worship but working toward being fair and balanced. (In the interim, just turn your head....and cough.)(CC may show up shortly.)

 

[UpstateNYCat]

You just described every fanbase in America. Are you dumb enough to think Cal doesn't hear things as bad as what Pitino heard and worse virtually everywhere UK plays, and especially at the Yum Center? Cal gets "engaged" everywhere we play but he doesn't make an ass out himself like old "15 seconds" does.

I don't agree with any fanbase engaging, egging on the opposing coach. Don't see the point.

 

[kybassfan]

While I'm not in favor of removing the banner, I do believe the requirements for getting into the rafters should be amended.

I believe that the individual receiving that honor should have retired from the sport. I think there are examples of coaches where their body of work makes them unworthy of such an honor. While only Pitino falls into that category at Kentucky, a coach like Knight accomplishments on the court are eclipsed by his behavior and character off the court.

After a coach or player has finished their career, the school is in a better position to evaluate whether to make this kind of award.

In regards to the fans goading him into that action, no they shouldn't have done that. It's akin to getting banned in the Louisville forum cause it's cool. That is unbecoming behavior in a UK fan. That said, Pitino is paid handsomely to be a consummate professional 24 x 7. No matter what those fans did, he failed to maintain that standard. He has failed many times in that regard. If UL fails to apologize or if they fail to properly seek whatever remediation their contract with Pitino provides, then it seems to me that the University of Louisville stands behind that gesture.

That should play into the decision as to whether UL deserves the future opportunity to play the Cats or take their place beside Indiana.

 

[BigBlueCatNation]

Minor point of contention: pRick's 3rd year @ UK ended in the Elite 8. 14-14 (no post season), 22-6 (no postseason), 29-7 (Elite 8 loss to dUKe)

On topic, I've got a question for the "banner stays because of magnitude of accomplishments" crowd: does character not enter the equation at all? If it was revealed that he had been running a Jerry Sandusky type of scenario at UL would you still say leave the banner up, it's UL Rick who's the pedophile, UK Rick was a saint?
I've personally reached my saturation point. (in all honesty this point was the moment he signed on w/UL) My wish is for fans to show up at some future game and the banner simply not be there...no fanfare, no ceremony, just an X-File type of disappearance.

I see your point. Character while at UK is different than character after UK.

 

[Tannerdad]

I can't stand the guy. At all. Hope he never wins another game. I hope the whore, Sypher, abortion scandals follow him forever. Small minded? Ok. And I don't give a crap.

But the banner has to stay up. He earned it. Taking it down would only fuel his pompous ego and make UK look small.

And put one up for Tubby while we're at it.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

Keep it up.

If moral failures are the criteria for removing places of honor post-facto, a quarter of the founding fathers should have their monuments taken down. John Hancock knocked a woman up and had to settle with her out of court. Alexander Hamilton, himself having been an illegitimate child, had an affair with a married woman while he was married. Andrew Jackson married a woman who was simultaneously married to another man. Daniel Webster had a slew of mistresses while he was married. A quick study on the founding fathers finds many of them, including Franklin and Jefferson, to be less than noble when it came to issues of morality.

You could throw in Dr. King (multiple affairs), JFK (multiple affairs), FDR ( affair with Lucy Mercer) and many others as well. Do you think any of our former presidents/ civil war heroes paid for back alley abortions? Might as well scrap all their war memorials as well.

 

[.S&C.]

Ah, I forgot that. Doesn't change my opinion overall, but does weaken my case

I like the idea of putting banners up for any coach that coaches here and wins a title. That's why we play this game. incredibly important teams(pel/farmer), and npoy's/AA. after that, there should be a list of "also considered" for 4 year all conference players etc.

Taking banners down is bad PR. there's no point in it. We do however need to extend the rules as I suggested above.

 

[.S&C.]

So, JR, you weren't aware he coached the Knicks?

This is the problem. People today don't understand how huge getting Pitino was. Newton had no idea why he would even want the job. But Rick had the vision that was UK basketball when very few others did.

Taking his name down over personal incidences and his career moves is completely dumb. Just dumb.

 

[Ugoff]

Keep it up.

If moral failures are the criteria for removing places of honor post-facto, a quarter of the founding fathers should have their monuments taken down. John Hancock knocked a woman up and had to settle with her out of court. Alexander Hamilton, himself having been an illegitimate child, had an affair with a married woman while he was married. Andrew Jackson married a woman who was simultaneously married to another man. Daniel Webster had a slew of mistresses, almost all black women - while he was married. A quick study on the founding fathers finds many of them, including Franklin and Jefferson, to be less than noble when it came to issues of morality.

You could throw in Dr. King (multiple affairs), JFK (multiple affairs), FDR ( affair with Lucy Mercer) and many others as well. Do you think any of our former presidents/ civil war heroes paid for back alley abortions? Might as well scrap all their war memorials as well.

Did any of those people run a prostitution ring for minors out of a school dorm? Is there still a Jo Pa statue at Penn state?

 

[UKWildcatT]

You just described every fanbase in America. Are you dumb enough to think Cal doesn't hear things as bad as what Pitino heard and worse virtually everywhere UK plays, and especially at the Yum Center? Cal gets "engaged" everywhere we play but he doesn't make an ass out himself like old "15 seconds" does.

Him saying horrible things were said to him by UK fans seemed fishy and this seems to totally refute that. Take his Elfing banner down.

THIS

THIS


AND THIS AGAIN

I heard ol UofL fan with the "vulgar" excuse. Please, you think they're throwing flowers down in the aisle for Cal at the Chicken Bucket? Please...

 

[ukalum]

Did any of those people run a prostitution ring for minors out of a school dorm? Is there still a Jo Pa statue at Penn state?

Joe Paterno was fired in disgrace by the school that erected the statue for bringing dishonor to Penn State. Pitino did nothing, while employed by UK, to bring dishonor to the school.

Removing the banner would clearly be unprofessional and petty. That's the reason it has to stay up.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

Did any of those people run a prostitution ring for minors out of a school dorm? Is there still a Jo Pa statue at Penn state?

Pitino was proven to run that ring? If so, that's certainly something to consider in this argument.

That said, Ben Franklin was a member of a society that exploited all sorts of sexual deviancy, including prostitution. Do you advocate his removal form the $100 bill? Also, it's well known Jefferson slept with one of his slaves. Should we take down his monuments and erase his name from the Declaration of Independence?

You'd have to remove a large portion of all honorary monuments this country has sanctioned if you're serious about following this route of retroactively determining whether monuments remain based on what would be perceived as an arbitrary standard of morality.

 

[Ugoff]

Pitino was proven to run that ring? If so, that's certainly something to consider in this argument.

That said, Ben Franklin was a member of a society that exploited all sorts of sexual deviancy, including prostitution. Do you advocate his removal form the $100 bill? Also, it's well known Jefferson slept with one of his slaves. Should we take down his monuments and erase his name from the Declaration of Independence?

You'd have to remove a large portion of all honorary monuments this country has sanctioned if you're serious about following this route of retroactively determining whether monuments remain based on what would be perceived as an arbitrary standard of morality.

Paterno claimed not to know; the statue is still gone. If it's proven that UL indeed ran prostitution in the dorm, I'm in favor of taking it down. I don't care who is on the $100 bill.

 

[bluescat92]

Every time Coach Hall looks up to his banner he has to cringe seeing Dicktino's next to his.

Fifteen second Pitino has been gone from UK going on 18 years. He is the second longest tenured coach in Louisville history. He is a U of L man through and through. Period. His loyalty to UK is long gone never to return.

His accomplishments at UK are history and for any Pitino lovers it will be there to read about when ever your heart desires. But his time in the rafters should be over and the sooner the better.

He is not and will never ever be a UK man. He is now deeply imbedded as the coach of our rival. That alone is reason enough to take it down.

Take it down, take it down, take it down........

 

[St.PatterSoN-54-]

To borrow a few lines from My Cousin Vinny:

That is a lucid, intelligent, well thought-out objection.
Thank you, Your Honor.
Overruled.

 

[UpstateNYCat]

Paterno claimed not to know; the statue is still gone. If it's proven that UL indeed ran prostitution in the dorm, I'm in favor of taking it down. I don't care who is on the $100 bill.

Whatever indiscretions that may have occurred at UL under Pitino is UL's problem. Has nothing to do with his time at UK. And I'm sure he wasn't a complete Saint while at UK, winning covers a lot of flaws. See IU under Knight for further proof.

IMO, the only way his banner comes down is if it's found later that NCAA rules were broken under his watch.

 

[Ugoff]

Whatever indiscretions that may have occurred at UL under Pitino is UL's problem. Has nothing to do with his time at UK. And I'm sure he wasn't a complete Saint while at UK, winning covers a lot of flaws. See IU under Knight for further proof.

IMO, the only way his banner comes down is if it's found later that NCAA rules were broken under his watch.

So in your mind is there ANYTHING outside of hsi time at UK that would bring that banner down in your opinion? What if they found out he was the Zodiac killer, would that do it?

 

[WhiteCityCat1]

START THE PETITION , I'LL SIGN.

 

[.S&C.]

Having read the entire article, there's not much wrong with it I guess.

However it's a non issue, as the jersey is going to hang regardless. Under proper polling methods I'd wager heavy odds the vast majority want it to remain. His personal life have nothing at all to do with it. I would say the same if it happened to Cal or anyone else. His jersey hangs because he meant that much to UK. In some ways he's as important as Rupp. We were headed for obscurity. He's a massive part of this program whether we like it or not. I don't understand why this must be an issue of this magnitude. Ricks issues are louisvilles problem, not UK.

A better article would be the distinction between UK Rick and UL Rick; or maybe an article on implementing proper standards for UK jersey retiring.

Take down, take away, remove, destroy (cleansing) and on and on. It never ends in 2015. Everything is negative, everyone wants to harp on the bad. It's ridiculous.

 

[UpstateNYCat]

So in your mind is there ANYTHING outside of hsi time at UK that would bring that banner down in your opinion? What if they found out he was the Zodiac killer, would that do it?

Only if it's found he was involved with 9/11. You know, killed his own BIL so as to monopolize on it years later.

 

[bluescat92]

Having read the entire article, there's not much wrong with it I guess.

However it's a non issue, as the jersey is going to hang regardless. Under proper polling methods I'd wager heavy odds the vast majority want it to remain. His personal life have nothing at all to do with it. I would say the same if it happened to Cal or anyone else. His jersey hangs because he meant that much to UK. In some ways he's as important as Rupp. We were headed for obscurity. He's a massive part of this program whether we like it or not. I don't understand why this must be an issue of this magnitude. Ricks issues are louisvilles problem, not UK.

A better article would be the distinction between UK Rick and UL Rick; or maybe an article on implementing proper standards for UK jersey retiring.

Take down, take away, remove, destroy (cleansing) and on and on. It never ends in 2015. Everything is negative, everyone wants to harp on the bad. It's ridiculous.

Pitino will never be as important THAN Rupp. Period. Wow. That was ridiculous.

 

[.S&C.]

So in your mind is there ANYTHING outside of hsi time at UK that would bring that banner down in your opinion? What if they found out he was the Zodiac killer, would that do it?

Honest question.

What exactly are we removing the banner for?

 

[.S&C.]

Pitino will never be as important then Rupp. Period. Wow. That was ridiculous.

It's than.

Come back to me when your reading comprehension improves.

"In some ways."

 

[bluescat92]

It's than.

Come back to me when your reading comprehension improves. "In some ways."

"Some"

Dicktino will NEVER be as important THAN Rupp in any way. PERIOD. Wow. YOUR ridiculous.

Happy now !!!!

 

[.S&C.]

Dicktino will NEVER be as important THAN Rupp in any way. PERIOD. Wow. YOUR ridiculous.

Happy now !!!!

Almost.

You're.

 

[ymmot31]

If only more people understood the concept of "taking the high road" I really think the world would be a better place...

What if the "high road" is disassociating ourselves from a despicable human being? What if we say we don't want our name associated with a known liar, adulterer, and cheat? By leaving his name up there we tacitly accept his behavior simply because at one time he was kind of one of us.

He has taken every opportunity afforded him to take shots at UK fans. During his eulogy for Bill Keightly he did nothing but talk of himself and what HE did for Bill. To think he is the sole reason we came back from adversity is asinine due to our history. Any competent coach would have brought us back, it just happened to be Rick.

 

[m080470]

It would be a PR nightmare removing his name from the Rafters and make us appear as mean, small, petty people much like the Memphis people treatment of Cal. I don't like Pitino, I think we have coach now who is a far, far better man than Pitino. Pitino's taking the UofL job and some of his actions completely colored how I look at '89-'97 and I don't enjoy the memories as much as I do others. BUT... short of an extremely heinous criminal act, I would never support bringing it down, it would be a gigantic embarrassment for UK to do anything like that. In fact, I'll go further and say that when he does retire, UK should do something magnanimous to wish him well.

 

[ymmot31]

Some would say providing skanky whores to underage recruits for the purpose of luring them to his program of ill repute would be a heinous criminal act. Guess you didn't grow up in the same environment I did.