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^ If you think getting 2-3 KY kids in '19 is more important than 6+ each from FL & OH, then yea.
Let's deal with modern reality. When Stoops got here in 2013, there were 17 scholarship Kentuckians returning from the 2012 roster, including 4 Kentuckians from the 2012 recruiting class. That team went 2-10. That's what Stoops inherited. At that time, UK fans were widely complaining that Joker Phillips had not recruited the state of Ohio hard enough. Stoops was hired to rebuild UK's football roster and get our program back to bowl games. In those objectives, Stoops has been successful. You can't name another UK football coach who recruited as well as Stoops has. And it would be misleading to suggest Stoops hasn't tried to sign Kentuckians. Young, Jackson, Middleton are starting. Kash Daniel will start in 2018. Stoops has offered scholarships to a number of Kentuckians. Some signed with UK, others didn't. You can recruit them, but you can't force them to sign. This happens in every program. I'm sure all of us want to see as many top players as possible signing with UK, regardless of where they were born. At the end of the day, coming off a 7-6 season with another promising season lying ahead beats the hell out of 2-10.I will also follow up that it is very disheartening and disappointing that more than five years into the Stoops era, huge upgrade in facilities, and two consecutive bowl games, we can't even expect to sign more than one or two, if that, of the top 7 kids in Kentucky. And I honestly don't know why that is. Lack of NFL draft picks?
No. There are plenty of coaches. Kentucky is John Schlarman's designated territory, and Schlarman gets help from other UK coaches. At some point, a light must come on, and high-information fans just have to realize that Stoops offers scholarships to players all over the eastern half of the country. Josh Allen, an all SEC player, is from New Jersey. Juice Johnson is from Florida. Terry Wilson is from Oklahoma. We need the best players we can get. Quibbling over where they were born is a false argument.Has this staff spent too much time on out of state prospects to be able to reel in even 2 or 3 of the top prospects in Ky. in 2019 ???
I realize that we get many good players from other states, but with back to back 7 win bowl seasons, to have what 7 of the Top 10 ranked Ky. players apparantly headed out of state is not good for the program.No. There are plenty of coaches. Kentucky is John Schlarman's designated territory, and Schlarman gets help from other UK coaches. At some point, a light must come on, and high-information fans just have to realize that Stoops offers scholarships to players all over the eastern half of the country. Josh Allen, an all SEC player, is from New Jersey. Juice Johnson is from Florida. Terry Wilson is from Oklahoma. We need the best players we can get. Quibbling over where they were born is a false argument.
Compare the records of those three schools over the last 10 years vs. UK's & you'll understand why. Flip those records around & UK would have the pick of KY kids.Ohio kids WANT to play for Ohio St. Alabama and LSU kids for the most part WANT to play for their home state school. Kentucky evidently does not have that WANT to among the top kids in state. You have several kids that don't have SEC talent that WANT to play at UK but you can't take those kids and be competitive in the SEC.
TT: 1. Those years are ancient history & relative state talent levels likely have changed & not in favor of KY. 2. When has UK recruited better, though not great, overall than the last five years? 3. I don't think we didn't get Sindelar/Harris/ Wills for lack of trying.Sorry, but strongly disagree. Best teams Kentucky has had have always included homegrown stars: Off the top of my head:
1984 - Ransdell, Logan, Dawson, Higgs, Calhoun, Jerry Reese
1997-98 - Couch, Yeast, Schlarman, Derek Homer, Johnson brothers
2002 - Lorenzon, Pinner, Caudill
2006-07 - Micah and Christian Johnson, Garry Williams, Tamme, Burton, Woodson
Point being is that no UK coaching staff is good enough to get the 2nd and 3rd best from other states and do without the top stars from instate, history alone says that is not possible. When we recruit as good as this staff has done in Ohio and other places PLUS pick up the top kids from in state, THEN we will have 8, 9 and 10 win seasons. What do you think our offense would look like next year if we had Sindelar at QB, Harris and Snell in the backfield, and Jedrick Wills on the O line?
George Adams played on the 1984 team, I think.Sorry, but strongly disagree. Best teams Kentucky has had have always included homegrown stars: Off the top of my head:
1984 - Ransdell, Logan, Dawson, Higgs, Calhoun, Jerry Reese
1997-98 - Couch, Yeast, Schlarman, Derek Homer, Johnson brothers
2002 - Lorenzon, Pinner, Caudill
2006-07 - Micah and Christian Johnson, Garry Williams, Tamme, Burton, Woodson
Point being is that no UK coaching staff is good enough to get the 2nd and 3rd best from other states and do without the top stars from instate, history alone says that is not possible. When we recruit as good as this staff has done in Ohio and other places PLUS pick up the top kids from in state, THEN we will have 8, 9 and 10 win seasons. What do you think our offense would look like next year if we had Sindelar at QB, Harris and Snell in the backfield, and Jedrick Wills on the O line?
The basis of this sentiment is understandable, but it is a false argument. All programs miss on instate recruits. The coach's job is to recruit the best roster he can recruit. Where each player was born is a collateral issue. You can find a lot of programs based in smaller states that depend on out of state recruiting as the foundation of their rosters. And why does UL, despite representing our state's largest city, have fewer Kentuckians on scholarship than UK does? Answer is that they sign better players out of south Florida.The Good/Great teams lock up home state talent pretty much most all the time !
Getting a signature win would be helpful...U6 last year was the closest we've had...this season , not so much.1st - Not all recruits who are higher rated are worthy of the rating
2nd - Not all recruits fit your team.....even if they are higher rated.
3rd - Assuming all other aspects are equal, is a similarly rated recruit out of Florida "more likely" to be a better bet than one from Kentucky? Probably. Certainly, certainly not an absolute, but.....
4th - If UL feels the effects of Jurich's dismissal.....and should the scandals, etc, spill over to affect football, then this could really help UK with in-state guys.
5th - Winning. Right now, Stoops' records have an upward trend throughout his time here. If this trend continues, then more of the in-state guys will take notice......and more will stay home.
I will also follow up that it is very disheartening and disappointing that more than five years into the Stoops era, huge upgrade in facilities, and two consecutive bowl games, we can't even expect to sign more than one or two, if that, of the top 7 kids in Kentucky. And I honestly don't know why that is. Lack of NFL draft picks?
Getting a signature win would be helpful...U6 last year was the closest we've had...this season , not so much.
It's about priorities. We have shifted our focus to Ohio and Florida, which should be where we get the most of our talent. Those two states are loaded with talent. However, in most years Kentucky will have 3-5 SEC quality players that we could sign and it's a shame that we can't get them. But again, it's about priorities. This staff has 3 stud recruiters (Gran, Marrow, Clinkscale - I think they were responsible for probably 95% of this class). Schlarman is assigned to Ky and he hasn't given us a whole lot in recruiting since coming on (I know he got Bunchy and Landon Young off the top of my head but can't think of many more). Hood is a great teacher but isn't known as a recruiter but he found Duffy, who I'm very excited about. Our state had three 4 star players last year and we weren't seriously considered by any of them. It remains to be seen how good they are but we really needed some talent infusion at WR and Moore would've been huge. We complain about lack of talent at DL and we had a 4 star, Tajh Rice, in state and we never even offered. The kid had a slew of Power 5 offers including USC and Virginia Tech. Instead, we signed Qua Mahone from Ga, who only had one other Power 5 offer. We don't know who will be better in 4-5 years but it will be interesting to see how it turns out.I will also follow up that it is very disheartening and disappointing that more than five years into the Stoops era, huge upgrade in facilities, and two consecutive bowl games, we can't even expect to sign more than one or two, if that, of the top 7 kids in Kentucky. And I honestly don't know why that is. Lack of NFL draft picks?
It's about priorities. We have shifted our focus to Ohio and Florida, which should be where we get the most of our talent. Those two states are loaded with talent. However, in most years Kentucky will have 3-5 SEC quality players that we could sign and it's a shame that we can't get them. But again, it's about priorities.
Schlarman is assigned to Ky and he hasn't given us a whole lot in recruiting since coming on.
Our state had three 4 star players last year and we weren't seriously considered by any of them. It remains to be seen how good they are but we really needed some talent infusion at WR and Moore would've been huge. We complain about lack of talent at DL and we had a 4 star, Tajh Rice, in state and we never even offered. The kid had a slew of Power 5 offers including USC and Virginia Tech.
As to our other assistants, House is pretty much useless as a teacher and recruiter.
I thought Hinshaw would be a good recruiter but that hasn't been the case
That's just terrible. None are from KY.Coach Hinshaw recruited Stephen Johnson, Terry Wilson, Gunnar Hoak. He is currently recruiting a list of 2019 quarterbacks.
I don't know the specifics of this, but it's worthwhile mentioning. Thanks.There is some talent out there every year, but the problem with instate kids is that they arent as developed in high school as a lot of other states making it more difficult to spot who could contribute down the road at an SEC level.
I knew you would be the first to reply and I like how you didn't finish some of my sentences since you quoted me. I admitted that Schlarman got Young and Bunchy. Kash and Drake were coming here regardless. So was Dotson and he didn't have one other Power 5 offer so he didn't beat anybody out. They were UK all the way. Meadows was recruited by Stoops and Marrow primarily not Schlarman.UK's coaches go where the best available pools of talent are. Josh Allen is from New Jersey. Jordan Griffin, Yusuf Corker - Georgia. Isaiah Epps, Terry Wilson - Oklahoma. Quinton Bohanna - Tennessee. Logan Stenberg, Kavosiey Smoke - Alabama. Marquan McCall, DeAndre Square - Michigan. Max Duffy is from Australia.
Coach Schlarman recruited Landon Young, Drake Jackson, Kash Daniel, Kyle Meadows, Logan Stenberg, Austin Dotson. He helped with Nick Lewis and Kenneth Horsey. Young was a 5 star prospect.
How do you explain the fact that UK has more scholarship football players from the state of Kentucky than UL does? After all, UL represents our state's largest city, where most of our state's top talent is. Obviously, all these players you mentioned chose to expend their official visits elsewhere. This is their free choice. How would you propose to sign players who prefer to attend another college?
Coach House recruited TJ Carter, Yusuf Corker, Jamin Davis, Jerquavion Mahone. He is our defensive coordinator. He formerly coached in the NFL for the Carolina Panthers and St. Louis Rams.
Coach Hinshaw recruited Stephen Johnson, Terry Wilson, Gunnar Hoak. He is currently recruiting a list of 2019 quarterbacks.
I know your mind will not be changed. I think the point is, some of your conclusions are based on demonstrably inaccurate beliefs. As already discussed.I knew you would be the first to reply and I like how you didn't finish some of my sentences since you quoted me. I admitted that Schlarman got Young and Bunchy. Kash and Drake were coming here regardless. They were UK all the way.
I also mentioned that Hinshaw is a fine QB coach but he hasn't killed it on the recruiting trail. Marrow recruited Hoak not Hinshaw. Hinshaw did find SJ and Wilson and those are good finds.
House was not the primary recruiter for Corker, Clink was. Carter has been a weak link on the DL and was not heavily recruited. Mahone was not heavily recruited either. They may turn out to be fine players but let's not act like House beat out some big boys for these guys (I know UT offered Mahone but they were desperate for bodies to fill out their class and UT is not a power anymore). I am high on Jamin Davis so he was a good sign. Yes House was in the NFL but was a Quality Control assistant at one stop. The other stop was for one year. He was DC at Pitt but when their HC left for Wisconsin he didn't invite House to go with him. I don't know how you can look at our defense and say he's a good DC. We were as bad this year as we were under Mike Major and we have much better talent now and play keep away on offense.
Every school loses home state recruits but we are getting waxed. We didn't sign anybody this year and it's not looking good for next year and there are some highly sought after players in next years crop. That is called a trend. I don't know how they change that other than make them more of a priority and use your better recruiters.
Inaccurate in your mind not mine.I think the point is, some of your conclusions are based on demonstrably inaccurate beliefs. As already discussed. I know your mind will not be changed.
There were 3 KY natives drafted in last years NFL draft, I have no idea who they were but I know none of them played at UK and I know it doesnt include the kid from Kentucky Wesleyan who made an impact on the Jaguars as a WR. There is some talent out there every year, but the problem with instate kids is that they arent as developed in high school as a lot of other states making it more difficult to spot who could contribute down the road at an SEC level. Historically 2-3 draft picks a year is what they state averages, which is equivalent to a 4-star prospect on these recruiting services problem is the 4-star kids never seem to pan out and its the ones that end up at EKU/WKU type schools that seem to develop.
http://usatodayhss.com/2017/nfl-draft-state-by-state-florida-texas-georgia
Yes, as I said before, that's what you believe, and it's demonstrably inaccurate. John Schlarman recruited 2 of our starting offensive linemen, including the only 5 star signed here by Stoops. Schlarman recruited our 2018 starting Mike linebacker. But you said Schlarman "hasn't given us a whole lot in recruiting". So that's demonstrably false. You said Coach House is "pretty much useless". That's demonstrably false. You said Coach Hinshaw hasn't been a good recruiter, but that's demonstrably false. You said Stoops' recruiting priority has "shifted" to Ohio and Florida. Half of UK's 2018 recruiting class is from states other than Ohio and Florida. And, actually, UK's most current recruiting "shift" is toward Michigan and Louisiana. In any case, you said Stoops has prioritized Ohio and Florida ahead of instate recruiting. That is also demonstrably false, as Stoops has already offered scholarships to at least 9 football prospects in the 2019 instate class. Stoops himself has publicly stated numerous times that he is prioritizing instate recruiting. And, again, I know you won't change your mind. But when you repeatedly post statements about our program and our coaches that are known to be demonstrably false based on publicly available information, that negative propaganda should be challenged here.Inaccurate in your mind not mine.
When has Kentucky ever been filled with football talent?
Each school you mentioned is basically after 1 instate player. But let's stipulate that this could be the best instate class in at least several years. Let's agree on that. With that being the case, are Michigan, Ohio State, and Notre Dame prioritizing Kentucky over Ohio? No.Michigan, Ohio State and Notre Dame seem to think Kentucky kids are pretty good this year
As for development of KY kids, I have always heard for the past 20+ years, it is due that there is a restriction on spring practices. Anyone else remember, or think this is the root cause?
And as I stated Young and Kash were coming to UK regardless. They were lifelong UK fans. He recruited Jackson also but he was a big UK fan too. Schlarman did find Bunchy but that doesn't make him a good recruiter. How is House not useless? You never answered that. I have my opinion and you have yours except mine are backed up by terrible defensive stats. And 14 of our 24 signees are from Ohio and Florida. That is more than half. Stoops may offer these in state kids but that doesn't mean that they prioritize them like they do kids from Ohio and Florida. If he did he would put one of our better recruiters on them like Marrow. I know most of his connections are in Ohio but he has gone into other states and signed kids. So no, my statements are not demonstrably false. They are backed up by cold, hard stats. Sorry if the truth hurts.Yes, as I said before, that's what you believe, and it's demonstrably inaccurate. John Schlarman recruited 2 of our starting offensive linemen, including the only 5 star signed here by Stoops. Schlarman recruited our 2018 starting Mike linebacker. But you said Schlarman "hasn't given us a whole lot in recruiting". So that's demonstrably false. You said Coach House is "pretty much useless". That's demonstrably false. You said Coach Hinshaw hasn't been a good recruiter, but that's demonstrably false. You said Stoops' recruiting priority has "shifted" to Ohio and Florida. Half of UK's 2018 recruiting class is from states other than Ohio and Florida. And, actually, UK's most current recruiting "shift" is toward Michigan and Louisiana. In any case, you said Stoops has prioritized Ohio and Florida ahead of instate recruiting. That is also demonstrably false, as Stoops has already offered scholarships to at least 9 football prospects in the 2019 instate class. Stoops himself has publicly stated numerous times that he is prioritizing instate recruiting. And, again, I know you won't change your mind. But when you repeatedly post statements about our program and our coaches that are known to be demonstrably false based on publicly available information, that negative propaganda should be challenged here.
Has this staff spent too much time on out of state prospects to be able to reel in even 2 or 3 of the top prospects in Ky. in 2019 ???