So Much Like 2010-2011 it's Scary

[brianpoe]

Harrelson shot 61%
Lee shoots 65%

Harrelson was better from the free throw line but neither of them shoot enough for it to matter.

Lee rebounds better than Harrelson, but not by much

Lee blocks significantly better than Harrelson

I think you need to disclose your age in order to avoid some personal attacks.


Lee would not rebound with Jorts or Jones in the paint, both bodied up very well.


@CELTICAT is absolutely correct.

You obviously did not watch the 2011 team.


And @UKnCincy is dead on. Had you watched 2011 you would see many 12 to 15' shots by Harrellson off the pick and pop. He could pull his man away from the basket for Terrance.

Lee is not even guarded outside the no-charge circle.


Your theory on FG% is so easily debunked:

Did you know?

That Lee has a better FG% than:

Tyler
Murray
Booker
KAT
Julius Randle
Bledsoe
Knight
Lamb
Anthony Davis
John Wall
Demarcus Cousins
Kyle Macy
Kevin Durant
Kobe Bryant
Michael Jordan
Larry Bird
Hakeem Olajuwan
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Wilt Chamberlain
Shaquille O'neal
Lebron James
Stephen Curry

Hmmm.............................................................................................

 

[HoptownCat93]

2011 has a lineup/rotation of by the end of the year
1.Knight
2. Lamb
3. Liggins/Miller
4. Jones
5. Harrellson


Now remember one key fact, THE NEW HAND CHECK AND FREEDOM of MOVEMENT RULES WERE NOT IN EFFECT.

Now just think of that team if they had these new foul rules called against them...
You can say Jorts/Jones is better than the starters we have now..but what if they played today and got in foul trouble? Eloy Vargas was our only sub in a big man role. I'll take the combo of Poy/Willis/Lee/Skal over having Jorts/Jones with their only depth being Eloy. Jorts and Jones are better players no doubt and a better combo, but Eloy was not a good backup.

I remember a game down at Florida where UK was in foul trouble in the first half, and a sophomore Polson came into the game and could not connect on two breakaway drives.

People really forget that UK that year did not have good depth after Enes was ruled ineligible, and if they had to play with today's rules...they would struggle because of depth.

 

[UK90]

Harrelson shot 61%
Lee shoots 65%

Please tell me you're not foolish enough to think this means he was a better shooter than Jorts. Lee has that FG % because he can only make layups and dunks, and thus mostly only attempts layups and dunks. The defense doesn't even bother coming out on him half the time, which lets them cheat inside to take away our driving lanes and double our scorers.

Jorts, on the other hand, could actually make a jumpshot. Defenders had to cover jorts like an actual shooter, which opened up space and opportunities for his teammates.

 

[brianpoe]

You know what I remember about that 2011 team...I remember this place was still the Cats Pause and I remember the fans.

I remember everyone being deflated and looking for someone to blame after the John Wall team's disappointment. I remember the "This one and done crap won't work" "Cal needs talent to win and these guys do not have it" I remember that ROUGH conference stretch where they were good at home, but struggled on the road. I remember the night at Alabama where Cal called out Terrence Jones for being selfish and how he disappeared after his strong start to the year, remember the F'n selfish video all over ESPN. I remember people posting about Darius being soft and how the fans overrate him because he's a hometown boy. I remember the fan questioning whether CAL should be the coach at UK..I remember that team playing a TOUGH Florida team on the road and coming up just short..(like last Saturday). Seems like a lot of things said about that team was similar to this...

But I remember myself telling everyone that this team was "young, inexperienced, and still learning" and that teams like that have more room to grow than other teams.

It's funny how we remember things, what if we ignored the 2010-11 team's finish and compared them to this year. We remember that team highly because of the way they finished...ending the final four drought after having to go through one of the toughest series of games. You could say the same exact thing about 2013-14.

If we went back on these forums 5 years to 2011, we'd be reading the same exact things about that team. It's easy to compare teams in retrospect..especially after that team went to a Final 4 and we ignore their struggles. I really imagine what would people say if Nerlens had not gone down and that team had made the tournament and this sky is falling mentality would not exist. Tournament time is where it is at, Cal is 22-4 and I trust he will do a good job getting this team ready.

I disagree with this premise and you are definitely not the first one to make it.

The frustration of the losses and ineptness of the teams were very much the same at times.

However, that team played much better basketball and you could see the parts were there:

2011
Did not have anyone who couldnt shoot free throws.
Made outside shots.
Had a consistent shooter at the 2.
3 upperclassmen who could lead.
Had a very good post man in Jones.
Had a true big who didnt give up space with good hands in Jorts.


It wasnt until Cal changed up the pick and pop with Knight and Jorts did they really get going.
Also their play on the road was head-scratching, however, the talent was there.


This team lacks talent, not cohesiveness.

We have a 2 guard who kills us in tight games and is zero threat from 3.
We have a big with zero offensive game and is foul prone.
We have a 7 footer who cannot rebound.
We have a beast that only comes out once every 4 or 5 games.
We have no upperclass leadership.
Our best shooter is extremely streaky and consistently bad on defense.

As to being at the least a very solid basketball player:

2011:
Knight
Lamb
Miller
Liggins
Jones
Jorts

2014
Tyler
Murray - assuming his defense doesnt detract too much from his all around game.


Every 2011 player played in the NBA, not on hype or potential but on merit and skill.

2014 has one kid in Tyler who fits that bill but most likely wont even be a 1st rounder.
Murray will be drafted higher on his offense with many other flaws.
Skal will be drafted, and because I am obviously dumb, I dont know why...

2011 has a lineup/rotation of by the end of the year

People really forget that UK that year did not have good depth after Enes was ruled ineligible, and if they had to play with today's rules...they would struggle because of depth.

This is a very good point.

Of course this year's squad only goes 7 deep and these 7 have less talent than 2011's 6.

 

[tmuck]

Not even close. That team could fill it up from the outside with Lamb, Knight, and Miller. Had the interior scoring, rebounding, and toughness with Jorts and Jones. Had a lockdown defender in Liggins. Probably will have similar records, but that's where the comparisons should stop. That teams ceiling was much much higher than this teams. Just a much better roster top to bottom, with a better basketball IQ.

 

[brianpoe]

Not even close. That team could fill it up from the outside with Lamb, Knight, and Miller. Had the interior scoring, rebounding, and toughness with Jorts and Jones. Had a lockdown defender in Liggins. Probably will have similar records, but that's where the comparisons should stop. That teams ceiling was much much higher than this teams. Just a much better roster top to bottom, with a better basketball IQ.

Liggins also hit around 40% on over 90 attempts.

 

[JonathanW]

Before the season I was comparing this team to the 10-11 team. But for that to happen, Skal has to be much more impactful, maybe not at the level Jones was, but we need at least 20mpg w/ 8-10 pts, 4-5 reb, and 1-2 blks from him each night. And that assumes we can get just a little bit more (than present) from Lee &/or Poythress.

That team was a much better shooting team (almost 40% from 3), & it had a little more balance (inside/outside).

 

[UK90]

Lot of good points being made here. This is just one of those cases where the numbers lie. The two teams might've had similar records to this point, but they're NOT similar teams. 2011 was plainly a better outside shooting team, a better defensive team, a better rebounding team, a more balanced team, just a lot better all around.

Honestly, in retrospect, I don't know how the 2011 team had that many losses. But with this year's team I understand it completely.

 

[tmuck]

Liggins also hit around 40% on over 90 attempts.

Didn't realize that. I remember the huge 3 he hit that sealed it against UNC in the Elite 8.

 

[UKWildcats#8]

Lot of good points being made here. This is just one of those cases where the numbers lie. The two teams might've had similar records to this point, but they're NOT similar teams. 2011 was plainly a better outside shooting team, a better defensive team, a better rebounding team, a more balanced team, just a lot better all around.

Honestly, in retrospect, I don't know how the 2011 team had that many losses. But with this year's team I understand it completely.

No one remembers they had that many losses because of the run to the de facto national title game against UCONN in the Final Four. If this team goes on a similar run no one will remember or care (except that one loser in anther thread bitching about Cal potentially having 10+ losses in 3 of the last 4 seasons, even when he made it to the national title game one year and to the semifinals in 2011 with 9 losses overall. You would think Cal was 10 loss Tubby the way he was acting!). I digress.

 

[Eight_Banners]

@Eight_Banners

Do you not remember Jorts vs UL?? 23 points and 14 rebounds?

Sullinger would have hurt Lee's feelings, instead he still has a Spalding emblem on his chest.

Lee only wished he could hit that jumper or block out like Jorts, and Marcus could never pick and pop, hell Marcus cant pick without fouling.

Jorts was not athletic but had a feel for the game, had good hands - I hate slamming Lee but your view is far off base...

You really used one game (UL) from 2010-11, and a saving the ball from out-of-bounds to support Harrelson over Lee?

Lee shoots a higher FG%...and before you chalk it up to lobs he's on a relatively same trajectory in FG taken as Harrelson.

http://www.bigbluehistory.net/bb/Statistics/Players/Harrellson_Josh.html
http://www.bigbluehistory.net/bb/Statistics/Players/Lee_Marcus.html

Their stats are almost identical if you break them down minute by minute.

Maybe Harrelson has the intangibles, but I would take Lee at this exact point in the season over Harrelson.


I think too many people love on Josh Harrelson for a couple of moments in 2010-2011 and the fact that that team made a Final Four run. I am a fan of almost every player that puts on the UK uniform, but lets not let moments cloud the entire body of work.

They are relatively the same statistically, but Harrelson was on a team that had a better story.

 

[Eight_Banners]

I'm sorry, but outside of record and jersey color, I see no resemblance whatsoever between this team and the '10-'11 team. That team's issue was they just needed to learn how to close out games.

And that's not this team's problem?



You're telling me if we win at Kansas and won at Tennessee you wouldn't be all about this team right now?


The fact is they have had bad games, but they have also started playing better. If they would have kept the pedal down against UT we could have won by 30+, but they let up.

The problem with our fans is they demoralize everything.

Had we won against Kansas and lost against UT we would be living in the UT loss more than the Kansas win.

Fact is, we were seconds away, a few calls our way, or a 3-point bucket in the 2nd half away from beating Kansas at AFH. Tell me that wouldn't have you talking differently about them before the UT collapse.

 

[Eight_Banners]

JH was an excellent rebounder.

Marcus Lee is better.

Look it up.

http://www.bigbluehistory.net/bb/Statistics/Players/Harrellson_Josh.html
http://www.bigbluehistory.net/bb/Statistics/Players/Lee_Marcus.html

 

[Eight_Banners]

I know you're getting push back, OP, but I tend to agree with you. A lot of similarities between '11 and '16. (Occasionally someone will compare this year to '14, and I can't see that at all.) Yeah, Jorts was better than what we've got right now on a typical night - but let's not make Josh into something more than he was, which was 8.8 boards and 6.4 points per night (I would have thought those higher, honestly). But the combo of Skal+Lee+Poythress can reasonably hope to give us enough - they just have to play more consistently.

The real positives we have? 1. April is guard time, and we have an excellent back court. 2. Our coach is 22-4 in the NCAAT, he builds teams for the tournament. 3. It's a down year in college hoops, no teams to really fear. Kinda like '11 in that regard, when the Final Four teams were 3,4,8 and 11 seeds, IIRC.......

If I could quote this a thousand times I would.

 

[brianpoe]

You really used one game (UL) from 2010-11, and a saving the ball from out-of-bounds to support Harrelson over Lee?

Lee shoots a higher FG%...and before you chalk it up to lobs he's on a relatively same trajectory in FG taken as Harrelson.

http://www.bigbluehistory.net/bb/Statistics/Players/Harrellson_Josh.html
http://www.bigbluehistory.net/bb/Statistics/Players/Lee_Marcus.html

Their stats are almost identical if you break them down minute by minute.

Maybe Harrelson has the intangibles, but I would take Lee at this exact point in the season over Harrelson.


I think too many people love on Josh Harrelson for a couple of moments in 2010-2011 and the fact that that team made a Final Four run. I am a fan of almost every player that puts on the UK uniform, but lets not let moments cloud the entire body of work.

They are relatively the same statistically, but Harrelson was on a team that had a better story.

I want to remain cordial, but Lee is not a basketball player, he is an athlete playing basketball - he lacks every single basketball skill set - shooting, catching, passing, dribbling, positioning, etc

He can jump higher than Jorts.

That's it. Jorts could play the game and he did in the NBA.

I totally disproved your FG% stats above.

According to your perspective, Lee is better than every big man that ever played the game not to mention Jordan, James and Bird.


Lee provides zero on the offensive end other than a putback or lob.

Jorts was a threat, could pass and catch. How many dimes has Lee muffled from Tyler?


Entire body of work?

Tell us one jumpshot Lee has ever made?

Tell us one time he took more than 3 dribbles?

You see athleticism only - zero proven skill evidence.

According to you Floreal should be starting too.

There is a reason why no one supports your opinion, it is simply wrong.

 

[Eight_Banners]

Where do people get that statistically they are the same?

Am i missing something here.

Lee is averaging 6.8 and 6.2
Josh averaged 7.6 and 8.7

If you do a minute by minute breakdown...


Harrelson played more minutes so naturally he would have higher stats...

But minute per minute Lee and him are virtually identical.

 

[wcc31]

Pretty funny how everyone here was so cool, calm and collected during the 2011's team's struggles in January/February. This board was optimistic and everyone knew Harrellson and company would get it together in March. I remember being in awe of how confident UK fans continued to be despite struggles in '11 (and again in '14)...

Except the opposite. It's easy to say this in hindsight, but at the time everyone was freaking the hell out just like they are now. Knight was a ball hog who turned the ball over too much. Jones was found out and exposed by scouting. You couldn't count on Liggins to show up. Josh Harrellson? LOL He had 4 points and 3 rebounds in a loss at Florida on February 5!

I know it's hard to be optimistic when bitching and moaning is so much fun, considering we've already had two examples of young teams struggling under Calipari only to get it together in March and turn it on, maybe, just maybe have a little faith in your coach.

 

[brianpoe]

And that's not this team's problem?



You're telling me if we win at Kansas and won at Tennessee you wouldn't be all about this team right now?


The fact is they have had bad games, but they have also started playing better. If they would have kept the pedal down against UT we could have won by 30+, but they let up.

The problem with our fans is they demoralize everything.

Had we won against Kansas and lost against UT we would be living in the UT loss more than the Kansas win.

Fact is, we were seconds away, a few calls our way, or a 3-point bucket in the 2nd half away from beating Kansas at AFH. Tell me that wouldn't have you talking differently about them before the UT collapse.

Again this is where you are wrong, and a 30,000 foot level fan.


We should have won at UT, played great at KU.


This still doesn't change the facts we could have won both games even though:

Lee still didn't provide any offense or defense.

Skal still hasnt rebounded.

Briscoe still cant make 3's or FT's.



Just because Tyler played out of his mind, or Alex showed up, or Murray got hot doesnt change the fact that those other have proven themselves one bit.


Wiltjer won a title with us, does that mean he plays good defense all of a sudden?

No.

I have said the same thing all season.


This team can win games due to the following:

Down bball season overall.
We have Cal.
We have Tyler.
Murray has shown he can be very good.
Alex has shown he can be very good.
Derek has show he can be good.

The others have not shown what we need.

Doesnt mean they cant be serviceable and help the team but their skills are what they are until we see otherwise.

 

[brianpoe]

Pretty funny how everyone here was so cool, calm and collected during the 2011's team's struggles in January/February. This board was optimistic and everyone knew Harrellson and company would get it together in March. I remember being in awe of how confident UK fans continued to be despite struggles in '11 (and again in '14)...

Except the opposite. It's easy to say this in hindsight, but at the time everyone was freaking the hell out just like they are now. Knight was a ball hog who turned the ball over too much. Jones was found out and exposed by scouting. You couldn't count on Liggins to show up. Josh Harrellson? LOL He had 4 points and 3 rebounds in a loss at Florida on February 5!

I know it's hard to be optimistic when bitching and moaning is so much fun, considering we've already had two examples of young teams struggling under Calipari only to get it together in March and turn it on, maybe, just maybe have a little faith in your coach.

Again Chad, you are missing the point.

Has nothing to do with the frustration level of the fans.

You are correct in that assessment.

Fact is the 2011 had much more potential due to a higher talent level, higher bball IQ, consistent post presence, better shooters, and upperclassmen who actually showed up.


Has nothing to do with faith in Cal, we would love to see a run, but again if you want to make your own premise here and change the narrative start a new thread.

No one is saying it is impossible, just that this team and 2011 are not that similar in terms of personnel.

 

[Eight_Banners]

No one remembers they had that many losses because of the run to the de facto national title game against UCONN in the Final Four. If this team goes on a similar run no one will remember or care (except that one loser in anther thread bitching about Cal potentially having 10+ losses in 3 of the last 4 seasons, even when he made it to the national title game one year and to the semifinals in 2011 with 9 losses overall. You would think Cal was 10 loss Tubby the way he was acting!). I digress.

That's the thing about the 2010-2011 team...no one cares about their regular season because they won 4 games in March.

Amazing how winning removes everything else.

 

[wcc31]

Again Chad, you are missing the point.

Has nothing to do with the frustration level of the fans.

You are correct in that assessment.

Fact is the 2011 had much more potential due to a higher talent level, higher bball IQ, and upperclassmen who actually showed up.

I'm not missing any point. All this hindsight BS is just that- BS. On February 5 of 2011, NOBODY was saying, "well this team has great potential and basketball IQ." I was on the board. People were freaking out. They were bitching about Harrellson's huge 4&3 effort, Lamb's 5-point effort and Liggins 4-point effort in a loss to Florida. Same with 2014. Of course, the teams aren't mirror images, but we have the same coach and he figured it out both years. I'm not sure he wouldn't have figured it out in '13 either if Noel didn't go down (not a F4, but winning a couple games).

Is it that big of leap that by tourney time, Murray figures it out, Willis continues to improve, Briscoe continues to improve, Poythress/Lee play like the best versions of themselves and Skal becomes a solid bench big? All this with Ulis orchestrating things?

Have a little faith in your coach.

 

[Eight_Banners]

I totally disproved your FG% stats above.


.

FG%....

61% Josh Harrelson
65% Marcus Lee

 

[HoptownCat93]

I just do not see how you can compare teams who one finished their season and the other has not.

After finishing the season 22-8, they entered the NCAA Tourney 25-8

If they lose to Princeton, they would have ended the year 25-9 in the first game of the NCAAT

Perspective is everything, one shot by Knight changed an outlook on the season. IF Princeton wins, we do not think of that season the same at all..

Let this team finish the season. Trust in CAL, GO BIG BLUE!

 

[brianpoe]

I'm not missing any point. All this hindsight BS is just that- BS. On February 5 of 2011, NOBODY was saying, "well this team has great potential and basketball IQ." I was on the board. People were freaking out. They were bitching about Harrellson's huge 4&3 effort, Lamb's 5-point effort and Liggins 4-point effort in a loss to Florida. Same with 2014. Of course, the teams aren't mirror images, but we have the same coach and he figured it out both years. I'm not sure he wouldn't have figured it out in '13 either if Noel didn't go down (not a F4, but winning a couple games).

Is it that big of leap that by tourney time, Murray figures it out, Willis continues to improve, Briscoe continues to improve, Poythress/Lee play like the best versions of themselves and Skal becomes a solid bench big? All this with Ulis orchestrating things?

Have a little faith in your coach.

You come across so stupid sometimes...?

Faith in Cal? No sign of anyone lacking faith.


You and the simple minded one above seem to think that the mid-70% FT and 40% 3 pointer stats all occurred in the last few games...


You and this guy seem to think that Jones and Alex were on par as to consistency in the paint?

You and this guy seem to think Lee > Jorts who could shoot, rebound, pass and dribble?

2011 players had off games as well. But some 2016 players are having an off season.

This debate is not about the path of these teams nor is about what the final outcome may be.


WHY IS THIS SO HARD FOR YOU TO COMPREHEND?


This is simply a discussion of those comparing the talents of 2011 to this years squad.

2011 did not have a starting guard who could not shoot.
2011 did not have a 2 guard who was inconsistent and couldnt play defense.
2011 was not soft in the middle.
2011 had a post game.
2011 had veterans to help lead the team.

2011 had better talent and better skils.

No one is saying it wasnt frustration at times and yes people on here freaked out.

But 2011's talents finally came together and we witnessed glimpses from these players throughout the year.


You are betting on Murray figuring out shot selection and how to play defense - ok

Willis continuing to get better - ok

Alex play his best version - ok


What is Lee's best version? Put backs and dont foul out?

Skal all of a sudden become a solid big?

Briscoe all of a sudden learn to shoot?


In 2011 we would be upset that a player wasnt performing on certain nights when we had seen that they had already proved they could.


This year we are wishing and hoping that players who havent ever shown the skills we hope for all season, or in 3 years for some, will magically appear in the next 9 games...

 

[brianpoe]

That's the thing about the 2010-2011 team...no one cares about their regular season because they won 4 games in March.

Amazing how winning removes everything else.

I just do not see how you can compare teams who one finished their season and the other has not.

After finishing the season 22-8, they entered the NCAA Tourney 25-8

If they lose to Princeton, they would have ended the year 25-9 in the first game of the NCAAT

Perspective is everything, one shot by Knight changed an outlook on the season. IF Princeton wins, we do not think of that season the same at all..

Let this team finish the season. Trust in CAL, GO BIG BLUE!

I hate it when posters change course of the discussion.

This has nothing to do with 2011's finish, this was in regards to the thought that 2011 roster and this one was similar, which isnt true.

Has nothing to do with our hope of a run this year or faith in Cal.


Jeez do you guys need a tutor or cliff notes?

 

[brianpoe]

FG%....

61% Josh Harrelson
65% Marcus Lee

Yes I proved that FG% is the most childish stat to use when comparing basketball players.


So in your mind:

Lee is better than:

Tyler
Murray
Booker
KAT
Julius Randle
Bledsoe
Knight
Lamb
Anthony Davis
John Wall
Demarcus Cousins
Kyle Macy
Kevin Durant
Kobe Bryant
Michael Jordan
Larry Bird
Hakeem Olajuwan
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Wilt Chamberlain
Shaquille O'neal
Lebron James
Stephen Curry


Playing basketball is more than just put backs and lobs. Kids these days...

 

[.S&C.]

Without reading through the thread, Lots of Cals teams perform terribly on the road in SEC play. It's funny to an extent to me because I used to tell my Memphis buddies how his Memphis teams only win like they were in conference because the CUSA sucked. They finally believe it seeing how hard he struggles in the SEC on the road.

I said before conference play started we were going to lose a lot on the road this year. It's Cals trademark.

 

[HoptownCat93]

I hate it when posters change course of the discussion.

This has nothing to do with 2011's finish, this was in regards to the thought that 2011 roster and this one was similar, which isnt true.

has nothing to do with our hope of a run this year or faith in Cal.


Jeez do you guys need a tutor or cliff notes?

That team also was paper thin with depth. Like I said earlier, what happens if that team plays with the current freedom of movement rules? Jones or Jorts one get in foul trouble...ELOY VARGAS. We had basically Liggins or Miller one off the bench.

The 2011 UK team was better...yes. That team along with the 03 Bogans team are my two favorites. But I'm just pointing out that in 2011 this fanbase was in meltdown mode after all of the road losses, and I had a confidence that the team would turn it around.

You are right, they are way different talent wise. But, the rules are different and if the touch fouls were called as much, I believe Lee would not be on the bench as much with foul trouble and he'd be a different player..heck first 2 months of the year this board was in love with Marcus and now that he hit a rough patch everyone piles on him.

The KEY for UK is their one senior Alex Poythress. I think he's finally 100% and now has the just regain the confidence he had before the injury. I think a big part of the 2014 run was Alex stepping up his game in the tourney, he's done it before and hopefully we can get it again!

 

[Eight_Banners]

I'm not missing any point. All this hindsight BS is just that- BS. On February 5 of 2011, NOBODY was saying, "well this team has great potential and basketball IQ." I was on the board. People were freaking out.

That was the point of my thread.

At THIS POINT in the season I would take this team over that team.


Sure they figured out the pick and pop with Jorts and Knight, but that wasn't until later in the season.

There's still a chance Cal figures out something that really works, and then watch out.

Even if he doesn't make any huge changes I still like our team to make a run in March.

Seems like they play up to the moment...coming into Kansas they played really well (probably better than Kansas, but without home-court advantage)

And then coming off of the Kansas game maybe played their best 15 minutes of the season (obviously debatable)

This team could be a tournament moment kind of team.

 

[brianpoe]

Without reading through the thread, Lots of Cals teams perform terribly on the road in SEC play. It's funny to an extent to me because I used to tell my Memphis buddies how his Memphis teams only win like they were in conference because the CUSA sucked. They finally believe it seeing how hard he struggles in the SEC on the road.

I said before conference play started we were going to lose a lot on the road this year. It's Cals trademark.

3 season with 6 losses.
1 season with 2 losses.
2 seasons with 0 losses.

3 first place finishes.
3 second place finishes.

Not bad.

Can we keep it under 6 losses this year?

 

[.S&C.]

3 season with 6 losses.
1 season with 2 losses.
2 seasons with 0 losses.

3 first place finishes.
3 second place finishes.

Not bad.

Can we keep it under 6 losses this year?

Probably. But if he was in the traditional CUSA with these teams, he'd still be undefeated in conference play. The sec is nowhere near a bad league at all. It should provide plenty of proof. Cal couldn't be beat in the CUSA on the road. He has lots of trouble on the road in sec play.

 

[Eight_Banners]

I think you need to disclose your age in order to avoid some personal attacks.

I'm 32.

Been watching UK my whole life.

I don't really care about personal attacks, because I'm not a child. I've voiced an opinion on a message board and people respond. It doesn't get much less personal than that.

 

[Eight_Banners]

Your theory on FG% is so easily debunked:

Did you know?

That Lee has a better FG% than:

Tyler
Murray
Booker
KAT
Julius Randle
Bledsoe
Knight
Lamb
Anthony Davis
John Wall
Demarcus Cousins
Kyle Macy
Kevin Durant
Kobe Bryant
Michael Jordan
Larry Bird
Hakeem Olajuwan
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Wilt Chamberlain
Shaquille O'neal
Lebron James
Stephen Curry

Hmmm.............................................................................................

I'm not comparing Lee to a person who played guard/shooting guard/small forward, and was consistently asked to shoot the ball.

I'm comparing him to someone who played a similar role (Center) and shot the same amount of shots from the position, and hit with a higher amount of consistency than the other person.

 

[wcc31]

I'm 32.

Been watching UK my whole life.

I don't really care about personal attacks, because I'm not a child. I've voiced an opinion on a message board and people respond. It doesn't get much less personal than that.

I guess we're both stupid, because we're not staying in the lane Poe wants us to be in.

Threads evolve and obviously, it's cool to look at the bigger idea.

 

[brianpoe]

That was the point of my thread.

At THIS POINT in the season I would take this team over that team.


Sure they figured out the pick and pop with Jorts and Knight, but that wasn't until later in the season.

There's still a chance Cal figures out something that really works, and then watch out.

Even if he doesn't make any huge changes I still like our team to make a run in March.

Seems like they play up to the moment...coming into Kansas they played really well (probably better than Kansas, but without home-court advantage)

And then coming off of the Kansas game maybe played their best 15 minutes of the season (obviously debatable)

This team could be a tournament moment kind of team.

This team could make a run, we do not know, we all hope so.

At this point this team is no where near as good as 2011 individually.

Not one player on this squad is substantially better than their counterpart on 2011.

Your argument on FG% by an individual is awful.

How about team FG% or FT% or 3 pt % those are better numbers.

Again, the team has played some great games, but none of those great games were because certain players overcame their season long issues:

Murray stepped up, Tyler stepped up, Willis stepped up, Alex stepped up. These guys had shown they could previously.

Briscoe did well - still didnt shoot.
Lee did well - still provided zero offense, still couldnt shoot or dribble.
Skal did well - still has no post game or rebounds.


2016 does not have the margin of error that 2011 did.

Lamb was not going to go 1-10
Jones was not going to disappear for 5 straight games (he did vs IU the following year)
Jorts was not going to be manhandled.
Jones and Jorts were not going to be continually fouling out.
Miller and Liggins could both provide a 3 pointer.

Any of these guys could have a poor game but their were others with solid bball talent.


We must have Tyler not only play 40 minutes but he must be very good the entire game.

Alex must show up.

Willis must contribute.

Murray must play defense and hit a decent percentage.



This would be a fantastic run if we went far in the tourney.

We have Cal and Tyler and bball is down this year.

 

[brianpoe]

I guess we're both stupid, because we're not staying in the lane Poe wants us to be in.

Threads evolve and obviously, it's cool to look at the bigger idea.

Stay in the damn lane Chad.

 

[UK90]

That team also was paper thin with depth.

This is the one and only area where I think you can make a case that this year's team is better. As you might recall, for much of that year we were essentially playing a 6 man rotation (or 7 if you count Vargas), with Liggins being the only bench player giving us real contribution. Depth was a serious problem on that team.

But, of course, the reason we play more guys this year is NOT necessarily because we're deeper, instead it's because we can't figure out who should be playing amongst all the incompetence. Cal keeps shuffling in and out four different bigs because NONE of them have truly shown they're up to the task. In 2011, we DEFINITELY at least knew who our best 6 were, this year that's not even clear. The only certainty on this team is Tyler Ulis, and probably also Murray, with the rest of these guys it's hard to figure out who should and shouldn't be playing.

Even with the depth issues, there's NO DOUBT which team I think is better. If they played a best of 7 series, I don't think it would go past 5 games.

 

[wcc31]

Stay in the damn lane Chad.

I color outside the lines, bruh.

FTR, I welcome all personal attacks. That's how I know we're really talking. So, feel free to call me whatever you want. Goes for everyone.

 

[brianpoe]

I'm not comparing Lee to a person who played guard/shooting guard/small forward, and was consistently asked to shoot the ball.

I'm comparing him to someone who played a similar role (Center) and shot the same amount of shots from the position, and hit with a higher amount of consistency than the other person.

Same amount of shots does not equal same shots.

Put backs and lobs does not come close to comparing actually shooting the ball.

Lee is greater than every center that ever played according to your rules.

Lee doesnt dribble, doesnt shoot from outside 3 feet, is not a good passer, lacks a feel for the game.

We love him and he is a good athlete. But after 3 years he still gets lost on offense and defense.

It is not that Jorts was so great.

Assuming comparable playing time - Lee is probably the worst F/C we have had since Cal arrived.

He is not a good basketball player. He is a good energy guy with athleticism.

 

[yoshukai]

Statistically it's true. And honestly, if I am picking between the two I'm taking Marcus Lee.

What argument do you have in favor of Harrelson?

Doesn't matter if you are taking Lee . He can't stay on the damn floor !