Should Student Loans Be Forgiven or Enforced?
- Thread starter College#19
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Agreed, but not by force. Which is what you are supporting. The Bible always refers to giving of free will or of good conscience. I struggle to see where the government picking winners and losers fits that mold. I have two in college as I type this and do not support loan forgiveness in any way shape or form.Instead of typing all these, the Bible also speaks about forgiving debts.
8 Bible verses about Cancelling Debts
A topical Bible which shows the most relevant Bible verse for each topicbible.knowing-jesus.com
And mocking religion in an incredibly misguided way.
Bad analogy by you.
No matter how much we try, we could never pay our debt for salvation, because we are not perfect. So Jesus paying it for us was the only solution.
But dead beat student loan owers do have the possibility to pay their SL debt. Maybe it will take them awhile, maybe they will have to accept job they don’t want, but they can do it.
But also, if you want to go with that analogy. Jesus volunteered to pay that debt for us. Very few taxpayers are volunteering to pay off SLs of others.
This is vote buying, plain and simple. And both sides of the aisle do it. But that doesn’t make it right.
I'm not a religious guy but over the years have realized the value religion brings to a society. If nothing else, it gives people searching to belong to something a place to go and congregate.
That's why I don't put a lot into some lunatic trying to drive that square peg in a round hole. The LCD usually looks to deflect and project their problems onto others because no one taught them how to be a decent, responsible adult.
People without kids are forced to pay taxes for public schools. People who don’t drive are forced to pay taxes for roads. People who didn’t get PPP loans were forced to pay for those loans but this is what you have a problem with?
That is probably true but the fact is many people are forced to pay taxes for things that they don't use or need. No one complains about those taxes so it is just funny to see much uproar with being "forced" to pay this. I will also point out that nowhere has that actually been proven to be true yet.
This. This so many times over. It's just like the affordable housing laws that mandated lowering underwriting standards and led to the Great Recession, but NO ONE is calling attention to it. Same thing, making loans with no consideration for the borrower's ability to repay.
Were you anywhere near as vocal about opposing PPP's as you are about opposing student loan debt forgiveness?
HELL YES I was opposed to PPPs. Businesses should not have been forcefully and illegally shut down in the first place and PPP would never have existed. Just one bad idea after the next…
When it comes to charitable giving, that is something me and my wife have had to reduce because of the ridiculous amount of taxes we pay every year now. It's incredibly frustrating paying what we pay in taxes only to see it be wasted on most of what government gets its hands on. Our schools are deteriorating yet gets more money thrown at it every year and infrastructure is a joke. Potholes every where. Illegals are pouring in and we are expected to foot their bills along with the rest of the deadbeat world governments. American taxpayers of both parties are being robbed blind. The ones who do not mind are the ones not paying much (if any) taxes which is at least half the country.
Me and my wife both came from poor homes. Nothing was given to us. We both put ourselves through school. We both went to college and accrued student debt that we have paid back. We got degrees in something that actually is useful and pays well and knew full well what we were getting into when we took out the loans with a plan to pay them back. It's not just conservatives or religious folks pissed off about this. That is non-sense. People of all races, sides of the aisle, religion, etc. who did the right thing and paid their debt have a serious problem with this. We can get into the other entitlements that need to be taken away from millions of undeserving people, but that is not the issue we are discussing here.
Me and my wife both came from poor homes. Nothing was given to us. We both put ourselves through school. We both went to college and accrued student debt that we have paid back. We got degrees in something that actually is useful and pays well and knew full well what we were getting into when we took out the loans with a plan to pay them back. It's not just conservatives or religious folks pissed off about this. That is non-sense. People of all races, sides of the aisle, religion, etc. who did the right thing and paid their debt have a serious problem with this. We can get into the other entitlements that need to be taken away from millions of undeserving people, but that is not the issue we are discussing here.
Take away that bankruptcy protection and they'll get out of the business altogether. Theyd have to. Just like the government had to get out of whatever business it tried to be in at various points in the past. With only one exception, government can never do anything as well as the private sector.
Bankruptcy makes loans get scrutiny. Scrutiny means no blank checks for useless degrees or to useless schools. That would both drive down costs and cause schools to once again educate young people to prepare them for work.
The whole problem would fix itself in 5 years or less. Would probably be less overall loan avoidance than this plan and, more importantly, would correct the ridiculous price of higher education.
I think making the comparison to PPPs and student loan forgiveness is a ridiculous red herring. The government compelled most businesses to shut down -- that's functionally a taking that should require just compensation.
No one compelled anyone to get student debt.
Plus one of the terms of the ppp loans was the forgiveness mechanism.
Trying to equate them is an incredibly disingenuous argument.
No one compelled people like MTG and Matt Gaetz to get PPP loans who then donated the proceeds to their campaigns.
An argument can be made that people are compelled to get student debt based on the opinions toward people who don't go to college and the fact that tuition has increased to such levels that those who should be going to college have no choice but to get loans. That doesn't even take into consideration the enormous costs of graduate programs, law schools, med schools etc. Even lawyers and doctors have financial hardships in paying back their enormous loans. We would all agree that those are frivolous degrees and are needed occupations in society.
Doesn't look like she abided by the forgiveness mechanism yet her loan was forgiven.
Self-funding QAnon candidate gave own campaign $450,000 after getting PPP loan
Watchdog group, along with Marjorie Taylor Greene's former GOP opponent, call on her to give the money back
Doesn't look like she abided by the forgiveness mechanism yet her loan was forgiven.
Self-funding QAnon candidate gave own campaign $450,000 after getting PPP loan
Watchdog group, along with Marjorie Taylor Greene's former GOP opponent, call on her to give the money backnews.yahoo.com
If she committed fraud, then she'll be prosecuted. That's for sure. So if she isn't prosecuted, then she didn't commit fraud and she was entitled to forgiveness.
This isn't difficult at all for anyone that's intellectually honest.
Bonus points for having a search history/algorithm that pushed a Q headline to the top of your search or news results.
It's actually bothering me that colleges aren't taking more heat from this. Harvard went full remote and charged full boat to the students for half the college experience.
But, those GD Americans that paid their bills or WHATABOUT PPP LOANS steals the show.
Lunacy.
But, those GD Americans that paid their bills or WHATABOUT PPP LOANS steals the show.
Lunacy.
I searched MTG PPP campaign donation. Plenty of results came back. That’s the beauty of Google. If you get specific, your results aren’t based on search history since that is the first time I searched for that information.
Sounds like we’re all in agreement that government handouts and loan forgiveness can be easily abused and manipulated and seems to result in an overall detriment to the majority of working Americans.
Yet those griping about a forgiveness program to help the working class didn’t gripe about a forgiveness program that benefitted the financial elite.
Your Google search results aren't influenced by search history?
Yes please tell me more.
10 k for student loans helps the working class as much as PPP loans helped struggling small businesses keep their doors open.
They weren't in this case since I had never searched for that information. It is also possible to turn off those personalized recommendations.
From this link: "After comparing the personalized and generic results of 25 searches of various types, I found only a handful of the top-10 results changed for most searches, and for several search terms there was no change in the top-10 results with and without personalization."
Five ways to depersonalize Google search results
You can prevent Google from customizing results based on your location, Web history, and other personal info one search at a time or universally, whether you're signed in or not.
www.cnet.com
The amount shouldn't mean anything. The argument is you signed for the loan. You should pay it back.
I agree, but those of us that have loans...are we supposed to just tell them no and pay off the full amount? I discovered I had a pell grant rewarded back n the day as well so guess this means I get the 20k. Again, I was gonna repay them over 25 years but if I can do it in 10 years or less owing 10k instead of 30k I'm gonna take the charity. The government has screwed me over so many times so I'll take the win. I'm not voting for the democrats either due to this. Of course the guy who has all the loans who parley3d the degrees to 6 figures annual salary isn't whose votes they want anyways. They want the person making 30k with 80k in debt for their journalism degree.
Seems like you are inventing a reality and then arguing against it. Plenty of people criticized the so called "forgiveness program that benefited the financial elite". None of what the government has done since the bailouts starting at the end of the Bush administration have been justified or financially prudent. The government handing out money to correct poor financial decisions is a bad idea. Period. People and companies who make poor financial decisions should suffer the consequences of those decisions.
In your posts about Christianity and PPP loans and basically complete and total whataboutism have you even addressed this actual issue we’re talking about.
Yep, no one was infuriated the government was shuttering businesses as a response to the pandemic.
In fact, I remember how many business owners were elated to find out they were no longer going to be able to make a living!
Can anyone in favor of student loan forgiveness put forth an actual argument without all the nonsense of whataboutisms or invoking entirely unrelated matters into the debate? Anyone?
In fact, I remember how many business owners were elated to find out they were no longer going to be able to make a living!
Can anyone in favor of student loan forgiveness put forth an actual argument without all the nonsense of whataboutisms or invoking entirely unrelated matters into the debate? Anyone?
The sales pitch of PPP money from the very beginning was that it would be forgiven so long as the money would be used to keep businesses afloat. Businesses had to file compliance to show that the terms were met before the "loans" were forgiven.
That is categorically different from student loans that were taken by people who knew they couldn't bankrupt it and were expected to pay the money back.
I really don't understand how, other than personal benefit, anyone would support this. I say this as someone who got PPP money, had it forgiven, and paid a helluva more in taxes in 2020 and 2021 than I received from the government. It felt icky, tbh, but so does paying quarterly taxes.
I fully support anyone who takes advantage of this. The fact that I find the government policy to be braindead stupid does not mean that I feel any animus toward the people taking advantage of the program. Get all the money you legally can from the government, imo. It is the government's problem if they make stupid decisions.
That is categorically different from student loans that were taken by people who knew they couldn't bankrupt it and were expected to pay the money back.
I really don't understand how, other than personal benefit, anyone would support this. I say this as someone who got PPP money, had it forgiven, and paid a helluva more in taxes in 2020 and 2021 than I received from the government. It felt icky, tbh, but so does paying quarterly taxes.
I fully support anyone who takes advantage of this. The fact that I find the government policy to be braindead stupid does not mean that I feel any animus toward the people taking advantage of the program. Get all the money you legally can from the government, imo. It is the government's problem if they make stupid decisions.
Yes, easily.
The entire student loan process is criminal. You're targeting the most uneducated, vulnerable, unsophisticated borrowers possible, and ruining their lives by allowing literal *children* to borrow hundreds of thousands of dollars of unbankruptable debt that can survive their death and/or their disability. The underwriting process requires no income verification, no assets, no job history, no credit check, no parental support, and doesn't take into account future earnings, future potential, field of study, or whether the recipient will even graduate or not. It's destroying the lives and the futures of the graduating students who are supposed to be the future of the country. An entire generation is buried in this shit and won't have the ability to start businesses, buy cars, homes, etc. It's an enormous drag on our economy.
If this program were targeting the elderly, or those with disabilities, you'd have thousands of people put in jail over this scam. Instead, it's become a criminally predatory, $2 trillion scam to line the pockets of schools and their administrations at the expense of children.
So yeah, I'm in favor of cutting some slack to the borrowers who were preyed upon by their government and by their respective schools. My biggest problem with the news this week, though, is that it doesn't go far enough. Most of this debt was fake, and would never be repaid anyways. So if you ask me, you should eliminate even more of it, but MOST IMPORTANTLY, you scrap this entire, ridiculous, insanely predatory scam and start over from scratch.
Criminal or just a bad deal for the borrower? What is the chargeable offense for a student taking out a loan for a largely useless degree or to the lender that offered it with the parameters in place? Did they go to a school because it has a bigger name, better football team and walk right past the more affordable community college offering the same degree? I hope you can see this isn't as easy as laying the blame on the university or lender as this takes 3 parties to all agree upon in order to get here.
Criminal is a stretch but definitely agree it's a terrible deal for the borrower.
18 years old is legally an adult in the US. I understand that a lot of 18 year old's are dumbasses, as I most definitely was one of them. But, with adulthood does come responsibility. Both can be true that it's a bad deal that they knowingly and actively agreed to it. They weren't forced to sign anything. They weren't even forced to go to college.
We're not talking about the elderly. That's conjecture and irrelevant.
Do you agree in cutting them slack with nothing in return or just wholesale forgiving the loan with no questions asked? I would ask if the latter, how do we repair it if none of the parties are held accountable for their part of it?
Overall, I do agree this should be going further if we're going down this road. Just forgiving of the loans puts us a step back and as a society. It's basically asking the people that paid their own way or paid off their debts to accept the same shitty deal the student did when signing their loan papers.
