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Should Student Loans Be Forgiven or Enforced?

Disagree. Debt forgiveness is considered income. Also the primary beneficiaries of this forgiveness are above average earners who could afford to repay the debt in time. By not having to make these payments, the beneficiaries have more disposable income to spend.
To an extent. It's not like everyone who had their loans forgiven was paying them before the pause anyway. And the vast majority of people haven't been paying the past two years anyway. No money is being created to forgive this debt, the Federal Government will just stop collecting money that had already been given to the universities. Sure, there will be a trickle of new found spendable money entering into the economy over the next few years, but this isn't going to be some huge new cause for inflation.

It's a little more than $300 billion spread out over a long time. Terms on these loans were decades long. Someone getting $10,000 forgiven on a loan of 20 years gets like $40 extra a month to spend. That $40 may well already have being spent anyway and now that person gets to go into $40 less debt each month. In the grand scheme of the economy it's literal drops in a bucket.
 
So those who did have sense enough to avoid this debt or actually paid their loans off as agreed should now share in paying for your defaulted loans. In reality the cost to the benefactors of this bailout will be much greater in the end as well.
Ehh, that’s what being a part of society entails. You don’t get to pick and choose what your tax dollars are spent on and a lot of times you’re paying for something for someone else and see no direct personal benefit.
 
No idea how it is today in public school but during my time, many teachers looked down on trade work and would suggest you do your schoolwork to not become a plumber or electrician.
That was my experience as well. As far as my high school was concerned, if you didn’t go to college afterwards you were a failure. They wanted the good statistics that showed their graduates went on to college, so that’s basically the only option the guidance counselors gave you. The question wasn’t if you were going to college, it was where you were going.

For all intents and purposes I had no choice but to go to college. I was incredibly fortunate my parents had saved a college fund, but the truth is 18 year old me was going to college no matter what. I was ignorant of any other option out there.
 
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I agree with the first part.

I don't agree that most student loans were destined to be written off. Borrowers that went to decent schools (State U or better) and got good jobs would have eventually paid off their loans. I know a lot of friends from grad school at UK who had sizable loans and all paid them off. These are people across many disciplines (business, law, medical, engineering, etc.). 56% of student loans belong to households with graduate degrees.

Certainly, there were a lot of bad loans related to "Colleges" that gave out virtually worthless degrees. A lot of those loans had already been forgiven though through court settlements and previous rounds of Biden administration forgiveness.


How many are over 35? Those people probably have reasonable balances plus are in a stage in their careers where they are paying. That's why I limited my position to anyone under 30.

Let's start the 56% in grad degrees. Not all grad degrees are made the same. In terms of ability to earn and repay, a grad degree in art isn't the same as an architect.

Let's also consider most states require teachers to get some sort of grad degree, so that's sizable portion as well. Many of those are forgiven anyway if they teach in the right community. So those are a wash.

Other grad degrees don't pay nearly as much as people think, ie lawyers, dentists, and gps; yet incur astronomical costs. Many of these might make payments but will never fully satisfy the loan and many will constantly be behind.

The amount of people under 30 who consistently pay on their loans is probably such a small amount, they won't even miss this money. In fact that's probably why they won't tell us the numbers because they're afraid it's so bad it will encourage everyone to stop. Either way, 10k to that group is a drop in a bucket.

If this issue was a cause of inflation, we would've saw it just after the pause. Will the sliver of lost revenue hurt? Yes to an extent but it's peanuts in the grand scheme of things
 
My cousin is barely literate but is a freak of nature when it comes to plumbing. Does basic to complex plumbing work, owns his company and employees 4 other people. Did not want the headaches of a larger company and is living a very comfortable life. Guys like him had/have no business in college but there is a world of opportunities out there for them to fill trades that are desperately needed. Guarantee he is doing much better than some know it all Masters student who is 6 figures in debt to be a professional student or gender studies professor.

I have a plumber buddy like this. We were in school together and it's somewhat miraculous either of us graduated. He is making more than the rest of us by a lot. His wife has a high-up position at Coke and now does his books. He struggles to find good labor.
 
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This topic (student loan forgiveness) in some cases is just like Abortion. Go Have the experience, if things don’t work out like you planned, let the government take care of your problem.
 
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So glad I paid my $120k college loans for a degree that’s actually worthwhile, only to now help pay for others who spent 4 years trying to figure out what a man and woman are. Our society is effing stupid now.

If you supported the crushing lockdowns, chances are extremely high you support this welfare project. It’s not a coincidence these people get every single thing wrong.
 
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It's funny. I bet the majority of the people that are big mad about student loan debt being cancelled practice a faith whose entirety is built upon a debt you couldn't pay that someone stepped in and paid for you.
 
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No I wouldn't. The majority of the people upset with this are people that practice Christianity and that Jesus paid our debt for salvation is the foundation of those religious beliefs.
How can you possibly know that?

Let’s assume that’s true for arguments sake, those are the exact people FAR more likely to VOLUNTARILY give to help others as opposed to forcing someone else through taxation.

Not only that, but helping people who actually need help, not government spoiled idiots incapable of making semi smart decisions.
 
How can you possibly know that?

Let’s assume that’s true for arguments sake, those are the exact people FAR more likely to VOLUNTARILY give to help others as opposed to forcing someone else through taxation.
Its quite simple. The vast majority of those opposed to this are Republicans. Not all are Republicans but the majority are. Republicans also claim to be overwhelmingly Christian.

The vast majority of Christians do nothing help others in need. Look at the way they treat gay, trans, non-christian etc. The vast majority of Christians are the reason why Christianity has the reputation it does today. They don't live by the word that they try to preach to others. The ones more likely to help others are the ones who need help themselves. The people with nothing tend to give others their last dime while "Christians" will do it for a photo op. Not all Christians are bad but a lot of them certainly don't practice what they preach.
 
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Its quite simple. The vast majority of those opposed to this are Republicans. Not all are Republicans but the majority are. Republicans also claim to be overwhelmingly Christian.

The vast majority of Christians do nothing help others in need. Look at the way they treat gay, trans, non-christian etc. The vast majority of Christians are the reason why Christianity has the reputation it does today. They don't live by the word that they try to preach to others. The ones more likely to help others are the ones who need help themselves. The people with nothing tend to give others their last dime while "Christians" will do it for a photo op. Not all Christians are bad but a lot of them certainly don't practice what they preach.

No wonder you are who you are. You quite literally live in an alternate universe that doesn’t touch reality. Charitable donations are OVERWHELMINGLY coming from Christians. Now that’s not to say they are perfect people, of course they aren’t. They are however FAR more charitable than the alternative and it’s not close. To say otherwise is just ridiculous.

As far as the gay/trans, you have an argument. Not all Christians fall into that category and I’d wager it’s fewer than you believe. We only hear the loudest though.

You clearly have an axe to grind with religious people for whatever reason. Just ask yourself if you’re truly better than them if you hate them the same way you believe they hate other certain groups? You’re painting with a broad brush and a narrow and sad outlook not based on reality.
 
No wonder you are who you are. You quite literally live in an alternate universe that doesn’t touch reality. Charitable donations are OVERWHELMINGLY coming from Christians. Now that’s not to say they are perfect people, of course they aren’t. They are however FAR more charitable than the alternative and it’s not close. To say otherwise is just ridiculous.

As far as the gay/trans, you have an argument. Not all Christians fall into that category and I’d wager it’s fewer than you believe. We only hear the loudest though.

You clearly have an axe to grind with religious people for whatever reason. Just ask yourself if you’re truly better than them if you hate them the same way you believe they hate other certain groups? You’re painting with a broad brush and a narrow and sad outlook not based on reality.
Not at all. My uncle was a member of the clergy before he died. I have no problem with religious people. I have a problem with fake people and many Christians are that.
 
That was my experience as well. As far as my high school was concerned, if you didn’t go to college afterwards you were a failure. They wanted the good statistics that showed their graduates went on to college, so that’s basically the only option the guidance counselors gave you. The question wasn’t if you were going to college, it was where you were going.

For all intents and purposes I had no choice but to go to college. I was incredibly fortunate my parents had saved a college fund for, but the truth is 18 year old me was going to college no matter what. I was ignorant if any other option out there.
Same. I remember when kids who decided to take a year off to work before going to college were considered disappointments, as if they were delaying success. I really wish I could have thought critically back then.
 
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Same. I remember when kids who decided to take a year off to work before going to college were considered disappointments, as if they were delaying success. I really wish I could have thought critically back then.

We as a society NEED to change the expectation that college is necessary for everyone. The truth is it is not necessary for the huge majority of people and professions. We also need to end gov’t sponsored loans and make banks actually analyze the worth of a student going into a specific field. It’s criminal these loans are handed out for kids to get an absolutely worthless, do nothing degree. It would be criminally wreckless if not for the gov’t backing and banks would never consider it.
 
No, I think you're a lunatic because you can't debate in good faith and with facts and every time I've unfortunately read your shit-posting, it comes off a opinions of people that live in boxes and collect rocks to paint.

Not even the WaPo can gaslight this shit deal up. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...t-loan-forgiveness-plan-worsen-college-costs/
Yawn...I pointed out a fact. Debts come in many forms. many opposing this had other debts paid that they couldn't pay. You don't want to read my stuff. There is a pretty easy solution. I've ready your shit posting and I choose not to respond because quite honestly you aren't worth the time and effort with your ridiculous takes. The only reason I responded to this was because you responded to me directly.

I never said anything about college costs. That's a completely different argument.
 
Blah blah blah opinions of the LCD blah blah blah.

Enjoy your gov't hand-out and thank a contributing member of society.
 
JFC - continue to make my point about Christianity for me. I don’t care what you believe.

You realize you don’t have to keep responding, right?
 
Yawn...I pointed out a fact. Debts come in many forms. many opposing this had other debts paid that they couldn't pay. You don't want to read my stuff. There is a pretty easy solution. I've ready your shit posting and I choose not to respond because quite honestly you aren't worth the time and effort with your ridiculous takes. The only reason I responded to this was because you responded to me directly.

I never said anything about college costs. That's a completely different argument.
Not that I care much either way, but I will point out that Jesus voluntarily paying our sins is hardly similar to the government forcing people to pay other's debt. One was voluntary and one was forced on people by a government. I know you think you have a point, but the two are like comparing apples and oranges.
 
I see the left is coming up with some fun talking points. Let's recap









My favorite tho is the progressives who supposedly hate billionaires and want them to pay their fair share, somehow can't look over at universities who have billions on top of billions in endowments they aren't paying taxes on and can't say...hey you greedy asses did this, gravy train is over, you pay for it.
 
Not that I care much either way, but I will point out that Jesus voluntarily paying our sins is hardly similar to the government forcing people to pay other's debt. One was voluntary and one was forced on people by a government. I know you think you have a point, but the two are like comparing apples and oranges.
And you miss the point entirely.
 
And you miss the point entirely.
I don’t think I did. You said the people who are complaining received the benefit of having something paid for them. Yes they did. The implication is it’s hypocritical to oppose one while receiving the other. But it’s not because it isn’t the same thing. Many of the people you are criticizing voluntarily help others who are having a hard time, through donations and/or their time. It’s not inconsistent to be offended at having your free will to help others taken away and being forced to provide charity to someone.
 
I don’t think I did. You said the people who are complaining received the benefit of having something paid for them. Yes they did. The implication is it’s hypocritical to oppose one while receiving the other. But it’s not because it isn’t the same thing. Many of the people you are criticizing voluntarily help others who are having a hard time, through donations and/or their time. It’s not inconsistent to be offended at having your free will to help others taken away and being forced to provide charity to someone.
Still missing the point.
 
Presumably to be an internet troll.
False. Of the two of us, you are the one that has namecalled in this thread but I’m the troll. Got it. No wonder UK fans have the reputation they do with other fans. Fans like you are the reason why.
 
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No I wouldn't. The majority of the people upset with this are people that practice Christianity and that Jesus paid our debt for salvation is the foundation of those religious beliefs.
Christianity does teach that, but it also teaches that :

Proverbs 10:4 Lazy hands make for poverty, but diligent hands bring wealth

Proverbs 12:11 Those who work the land will have abundant food, those who chase fantasies have no sense

2 Thessalonians if a man will not work, he shall not eat

2 Corinthians 9:6-8. Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously. Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.
 
Christianity does teach that, but it also teaches that :

Proverbs 10:4 Lazy hands make for poverty, but diligent hands bring wealth

Proverbs 12:11 Those who work the land will have abundant food, those who chase fantasies have no sense

2 Thessalonians if a man will not work, he shall not eat

2 Corinthians 9:6-8. Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously. Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

While I’m not a religious person, I raise my children that way at my wife’s request due to the values it teaches. It has been an extremely positive influence on them and they give more in the community than I would have ever imagined.

You can always find the extremes within a group to demonize them, but the group as a whole does many great things to help others. Saying otherwise just displays ignorance.
 
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All they really needed to do was fix the interest rates. The remainder of my debt is getting wiped out but considering the thousands I've paid in interest to the government I figure we're all square on the amount I originally borrowed.
What we need to do is get the federal completely out of the business of guaranteeing student loans. If there was no federal guarantee and student loans were dischargeable in bankruptcy, the entire landscape of higher education would change almost overnight. Prices would plummet and entire departments of useless people would disappear.

Banks hire actuaries and analysts to determine whether someone is a good bet for a loan. Without a federal guarantee that the loan will be repaid and the assurance that the loan can't be bankrupted, would any bank loan someone $100+k to get an undergrad degree in gender studies or whatever? The answer to that is a flat "hell no". But our government policy makes it happen every day... and the notion that this is just the first step to a full forgiveness is only going to cause many more problems. Incentivizing poor behavior is incredibly dangerous, as is getting people accustomed to sucking on the government tit.

I'd actually be fine with a much larger loan forgiveness program if the federal government simultaneously announced that it is completely winding down the student loan guarantees over the next year... and this was done by a vote of Congress, not an executive order from a president who is, at best, barely sentient.

I'm doubtful that Biden has the authority to do this by executive order -- even Pelosi said a while back that the president does not have the authority to forgive student loans (not that she is an esteemed legal scholar). The problem will be whether this issue can get to the Supreme Court to have it thrown out because finding a plaintiff with standing might be difficult.

In other news, The Babylon Bee is absolutely killing it on this issue.



 
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Christianity does teach that, but it also teaches that :

Proverbs 10:4 Lazy hands make for poverty, but diligent hands bring wealth

Proverbs 12:11 Those who work the land will have abundant food, those who chase fantasies have no sense

2 Thessalonians if a man will not work, he shall not eat

2 Corinthians 9:6-8. Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously. Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.
Instead of typing all these, the Bible also speaks about forgiving debts.

 
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