Should NC State receive the same punishment UK got in 1989?

[FactCheckerUSA]

In the details of the FBI investigation that came out yesterday, we learned a NC State coach delivered $40,000 to one of the parents of Dennis Smith Jr to keep him from decommitting. NC State fans seem to think it's no big deal because the former coaching staff has been fired.

But I was in Lexington when the NCAA hammered UK for an assistant coach paying far less money for two recruits. It didn't matter that the former coaching staff was gone. The NCAA saw a coach paid players, and they tried to destroy the program. So to me, I find it offensive that any other program might receive far less in punishments for committing the same damn violation. I remember the daze we were all in when those sanctions were announced, not being able to watch the team for a year, and the struggle to get the program back to where it belonged.

So I just wanted to ask the rest of BBM what they think.

 

[EliteBlue]

Yes.

But until UNC** is punished for the biggest scandal in history on top of wheels for heels etc, then I hope they tell the NCAA to F off and cause as big of a headache as possible.

 

[Smashcat]

NC State fans seem to think it's no big deal because the former coaching staff has been fired.

Okaaaay.

 

[FactCheckerUSA]

Okaaaay.

I'm not joking. The consensus amongst their fans is that firing the staff absolves the program of any wrongdoing, and the worst case scenario is just vacating the wins Dennis Smith Jr played in.

I think that is BS. Getting rid of Eddie Sutton's staff didn't magically prevent the NCAA from dropping postseason bans and scholarship reductions on UK. Why should UK be the only program to get hammered for the same damn violation?

 

[littlecreek]

In the details of the FBI investigation that came out yesterday, we learned a NC State coach delivered $40,000 to one of the parents of Dennis Smith Jr to keep him from decommitting. NC State fans seem to think it's no big deal because the former coaching staff has been fired.

But I was in Lexington when the NCAA hammered UK for an assistant coach paying far less money for two recruits. It didn't matter that the former coaching staff was gone. The NCAA saw a coach paid players, and they tried to destroy the program. So to me, I find it offensive that any other program might receive far less in punishments for committing the same damn violation. I remember the daze we were all in when those sanctions were announced, not being able to watch the team for a year, and the struggle to get the program back to where it belonged.

So I just wanted to ask the rest of BBM what they think.

Any other school that supposedly broke rules should tell UNCAA they will serve their punishment when UNC*** gets their’s. UK’s president didn’t try to fight the NCAA and just accepted the ruling even though there was no clear evidence UK committed the crimes. Best I remember is UK’s president was a Duke graduate.

 

[UK90]

Wolfpack fans are gonna lose their friggin minds when they end up being the one the NCAA crushes after it let UNC off scot-free for the worst academic fraud scandal in college sports history.

 

[littlecreek]

Wolfpack fans are gonna lose their friggin minds when they end up being the one the NCAA crushes after letting UNC off scot-free for the worst academic fraud scandal in college sports history.

If it happens I hope they make a huge issue of it and the school president and AD publicly talk about it

 

[DrH. Lecter]

Academic scandals should be dealt with by academics. Penn St. By the police. The NCAA shoild not regulate everything we don't like that are not athletics related.

NCSt did their best to blow up UNC and got nothing. They certainly will be pissed.

 

[Xception]

What the NCAA did to UK was out of spite, but F them we won two titles in under a decade afterwards.

 

[morgousky]

Academic scandals should be dealt with by academics. Penn St. By the police. The NCAA shoild not regulate everything we don't like that are not athletics related.

NCSt did their best to blow up UNC and got nothing. They certainly will be pissed.

I have said for years. Academics should not be over athletics, athletes should have anything to do with academics, and Penn State was purely a legal matter. The problems persist when these groups melt together.

 

[wildcatcorner]

In the details of the FBI investigation that came out yesterday, we learned a NC State coach delivered $40,000 to one of the parents of Dennis Smith Jr to keep him from decommitting. NC State fans seem to think it's no big deal because the former coaching staff has been fired.

But I was in Lexington when the NCAA hammered UK for an assistant coach paying far less money for two recruits. It didn't matter that the former coaching staff was gone. The NCAA saw a coach paid players, and they tried to destroy the program. So to me, I find it offensive that any other program might receive far less in punishments for committing the same damn violation. I remember the daze we were all in when those sanctions were announced, not being able to watch the team for a year, and the struggle to get the program back to where it belonged.

So I just wanted to ask the rest of BBM what they think.

***allegedly***

 

[cats2010]

Doubt you ever see anyone receive what we got in 89 ever again or at least as long as the TV money is what it is. Most you will see is a one year post season ban and reduction of scholarships over a 3 year period or so.

 

[billoliver40]

Kentucky was already on probation.

Let's not forget that the pay for play was iceberg tip. Eric Manuel with Sean Sutton in the same room for tseting.....AFTER Sean had already taken the test and cleared.

Bad enough.

 

[ZZBlueComet]

After the UNC** farce, no program should ever be scrutinized by the NCAA, IMO, except U6 of course.

 

[YouKay]

Wolfpack fans are gonna lose their friggin minds when they end up being the one the NCAA crushes after letting UNC off scot-free for the worst academic fraud scandal in college sports history.

Well they should not have put up with hiring a sleazebag coach in the first place. You lie down with dogs, you wake up with fleas.

 

[*Bleedingblue*]

In the details of the FBI investigation that came out yesterday, we learned a NC State coach delivered $40,000 to one of the parents of Dennis Smith Jr to keep him from decommitting. NC State fans seem to think it's no big deal because the former coaching staff has been fired.

But I was in Lexington when the NCAA hammered UK for an assistant coach paying far less money for two recruits. It didn't matter that the former coaching staff was gone. The NCAA saw a coach paid players, and they tried to destroy the program. So to me, I find it offensive that any other program might receive far less in punishments for committing the same damn violation. I remember the daze we were all in when those sanctions were announced, not being able to watch the team for a year, and the struggle to get the program back to where it belonged.

So I just wanted to ask the rest of BBM what they think.

The NCAA never saw any money exchange hands only went by an allegation from a rival fan. NCAA threantened us with the death penalty so we had to go along with what they were accusing us of doing.

I haven't seen a case like that again in basketball and the clear double standard the NCAA puts forth for their member institutions.

 

[martinsm30]

I have said for years. Academics should not be over athletics, athletes should have anything to do with academics, and Penn State was purely a legal matter. The problems persist when these groups melt together.

The farce that these are student athletes should disappear.

 

[cmallory4121]

The NCAA will sweep this fbi thing under the rug and move on. Like baseball did with steroids 15 years ago. Too big of a problem to deal with.

 

[FatCatwithBlueHat]

I'm not joking. The consensus amongst their fans is that firing the staff absolves the program of any wrongdoing, and the worst case scenario is just vacating the wins Dennis Smith Jr played in.

I think that is BS. Getting rid of Eddie Sutton's staff didn't magically prevent the NCAA from dropping postseason bans and scholarship reductions on UK. Why should UK be the only program to get hammered for the same damn violation?

Not trying to start a fight, but how do you know the consensus of their fans? An internet board? That only gives you the consensus of a very small part of a fan base.

 

[morgousky]

The farce that these are student athletes should disappear.

I think the tradeoff is fine. If a player doesn't want to play he can take one of many options. I also believe in reform. The ncaa needs to clean it up, and Emmert shouldn't be making 2 million dollars per year.

 

[CATSrock]

Academic scandals should be dealt with by academics. Penn St. By the police. The NCAA shoild not regulate everything we don't like that are not athletics related.

NCSt did their best to blow up UNC and got nothing. They certainly will be pissed.

Fine, but the academic scandal allowed NCAA athletes to get unfair advantages and THAT'S why UNC should be punished. It's all a bunch of spin by attorneys trying to separate this by saying, 'yeah, but OTHER students took the fake courses too'...

 

[Smashcat]

 

[the stat man]

After the UNC** farce, no program should ever be scrutinized by the NCAA, IMO, except U6 of course.

I have to agree,if I were NC State I would
Either use the Rat Face defense and refuse to talk about it or I would say yes we will accept out punishment right after you issue punishment to UNCheat !!

 

[Ryan Lemonds Diary]

Getting rid of the coaching staff will make little difference. Now if they get rid of the "State" from the university name then they should be golden with the NCAA.

 

[KySpringCat]

Words that do not go together,

NCAA, student-athlete, consistency, fairness, equality.

 

[Ukcatz92]

We need to show some support to State..they hate and despise the tar heels more than anyone on the planet!

 

[Perrin75]

There is no possible way to separate Athletics from Academics at the Collegiate level. The sole reason that any of those players were at UNC was because they were given a scholarship that covered the cost of attendance to the University. They are all enrolled as students and they have academic requirements for eligibility. There are very strict guidelines for what it takes to maintain that eligibility and it includes restrictions on Class time and GPA. The UNC ruling basically told the rest of the world that those standards no longer matter and you now have the right as an institution to run completely fraudulent academic courses in order to maintain eligibility so that your athletes are allowed to compete. It most certainly gave UNC an advantage over other programs because their student athletes were not having to maintain any sort of Academic/Athletic balance and they never had to worry about classroom performance when it came to eligibility.

 

[DrH. Lecter]

Fine, but the academic scandal allowed NCAA athletes to get unfair advantages and THAT'S why UNC should be punished. It's all a bunch of spin by attorneys trying to separate this by saying, 'yeah, but OTHER students took the fake courses too'...

There is a difference between spin and fact. UNC allowed "justice warrior" leftists to create a world in which minority studies programs set their own rules. Done so in order to keep students of color on the graduation track...not just athletes but athletes of color benefited. That was not because they were athletes. That is why the program pushed through and gave worthless grades to more non athletes than athletes. Ive said before...UK has similar meaningless worthless classes such as Floral Decorating. Do we want the NCAA ruling athletes who take these meaningless classes...made not to keep athletes eligible but to keep professors employed etc... do we really want the NCAA ruling on the merit of what class goes with your GPA? The UNC issue is a case where the school offered a class in a program that shouldnt exist but does at every university in the USA. UNC academic guilt allowed it to be even more ridiculous and worthless.

 

[Jkwo]

There is a difference between spin and fact. UNC allowed "justice warrior" leftists to create a world in which minority studies programs set their own rules. Done so in order to keep students of color on the graduation track...not just athletes but athletes of color benefited. That was not because they were athletes. That is why the program pushed through and gave worthless grades to more non athletes than athletes. Ive said before...UK has similar meaningless worthless classes such as Floral Decorating. Do we want the NCAA ruling athletes who take these meaningless classes...made not to keep athletes eligible but to keep professors employed etc... do we really want the NCAA ruling on the merit of what class goes with your GPA? The UNC issue is a case where the school offered a class in a program that shouldnt exist but does at every university in the USA. UNC academic guilt allowed it to be even more ridiculous and worthless.

A couple snoozers is not the same as an entire curriculum that is completely fraudulent, though you're right that sjw departments " ________ studies " are fraudulent everywhere in the country. There's nothing falsifiable in the entire curriculum; you don't see administrators tucking away the athletes in math/science/etc.

 

[DrH. Lecter]

A couple snoozers is not the same as an entire curriculum that is completely fraudulent, though you're right that sjw departments " ________ studies " are fraudulent everywhere in the country. There's nothing falsifiable in the entire curriculum; you don't see administrators tucking away the athletes in math/science/etc.

That is because as we see with 1nD they are in school to bide time until they van go to the NBA. They don't care about the school part anyway.

 

[Jkwo]

That is because as we see with 1nD they are in school to bide time until they van go to the NBA. They don't care about the school part anyway.

Not always. Wall is getting his degree. You have guys like Knight Towns MKG etc who put in a lot of effort.

 

[DrH. Lecter]

Not always. Wall is getting his degree. You have guys like Knight Towns MKG etc who put in a lot of effort.

Certainly. I was not talking about our 1nD student athletes. Don't forget whatshisface from ClarksvilleTN.

 

[FactCheckerUSA]

Seems like the poll is pretty lopsided

 

[Pickle_Rick]

..., and Penn State was purely a legal matter.

In the strictest sense, yes it was. Now ask if justice was served by punishing a school culture that if not condoning, at least turned a blind eye to children being raped. If they had fire bombed the entire school, I wouldn't have shed a tear.

 

[JohnBlue_]

Academic scandals should be dealt with by academics. Penn St. By the police. The NCAA shoild not regulate everything we don't like that are not athletics related.

NCSt did their best to blow up UNC and got nothing. They certainly will be pissed.

Penn St involved athletics. That happened, was allowed to happen by the coaching staff, and the AD. The athletic dept paid the expenses for it to happen by providing travel for both the rapist, and his victims. The athletic dept hosted the crimes and worked to keep them secret from the police and everyone else. IMO that covered everything from athletics to criminal charges, to the institution itself failing to provide a safe place. Just imagine how many people over the years knew of what was going on and didn't say anything either to protect the athletics, or from fear from them. That program should have gotten shut down completely, forever.

 

[bestshadofblue]

Penn St involved athletics. That happened, was allowed to happen by the coaching staff, and the AD. The athletic dept paid the expenses for it to happen by providing travel for both the rapist, and his victims. The athletic dept hosted the crimes and worked to keep them secret from the police and everyone else. IMO that covered everything from athletics to criminal charges, to the institution itself failing to provide a safe place. Just imagine how many people over the years knew of what was going on and didn't say anything either to protect the athletics, or from fear from them. That program should have gotten shut down completely, forever.

.

Playing devil’s advocate here, what ncaa rule(s) did they violate?

In order to punish someone don’t they need to have first broken a rule? If so, which rule was it?

 

[JohnBlue_]

.

Playing devil’s advocate here, what ncaa rule(s) did they violate?

In order to punish someone don’t they need to have first broken a rule? If so, which rule was it?

Pretty sure you are to provide a safe environment. You can't even allow fans to rush the floor, or field without a fine anymore.

 

[JPScott]

.

Playing devil’s advocate here, what ncaa rule(s) did they violate?

In order to punish someone don’t they need to have first broken a rule? If so, which rule was it?

Dont' be daft.

North Carolina willingly and repeatedly broke and flaunted the very core principles of the NCAA organization. (related to education, honesty among many others etc.)

Link to NCAA Principles

A couple of points:

1.) When a school breaks the very core principles of the NCAA, I dispute the idea that there must be a specific bylaw that was broken. If anything UNC should simply be kicked out of the organization.

If you decide to join an organization and agree to act with honesty, integrity and trustworthiness, after you've been found guilty of grand larceny do you admit you failed the organization or do you argue that the oath that you agreed to didn't specify grand larceny?

Completely ridiculous.

2.) Having said that, there are plenty of by-laws that UNC potentially broke. As an example, one specific requirement in the NCAA manual is that on a yearly basis the school is supposed to certify with the NCAA that each of their athletes are academically eligible.

When UNC officials knowingly certify these athletes knowing that they only did so via fraudulent classes, then that in itself is fraud. Mary Willingham herself has admitted that she helped submit such paperwork knowing that the athletes hadn't completed sufficient academic work.

3.) Never forget that the paper classes was just the tip of the iceberg. There were numerous other potential infractions which took place which the NCAA never adequately investigated (if they did so at all.)

BTW, the whole argument about there not being a particular by-law broken etc. is one which to me reveals the complete hypocrisy of someone like Jay Bilas. For much of his career he's complained about the NCAA rulebook being too large etc., but now he argues that it's not specific enough? Again ridiculous.

 

[ruppcat]

I'm not joking. The consensus amongst their fans is that firing the staff absolves the program of any wrongdoing, and the worst case scenario is just vacating the wins Dennis Smith Jr played in.

I think that is BS. Getting rid of Eddie Sutton's staff didn't magically prevent the NCAA from dropping postseason bans and scholarship reductions on UK. Why should UK be the only program to get hammered for the same damn violation?

Because we are UK.

 

[bestshadofblue]

Pretty sure you are to provide a safe environment. You can't even allow fans to rush the floor, or field without a fine anymore.

Pretty sure that’s not a bylaw.