Schlarman OL Comment

[Levibooty]

Gran is the upgrade Stoops wanted to have here all along and it's easy to see why. People seem to have a case of hero worship though. They ignore the years of work that Schlarman put in recruiting and developing an OL so as to heap all praise on their one selection. Gran has shown why Stoops wanted him from the start, but Schlarman is the coach that has been here with Stoops all along building the OL. How many times have we read the discussions on this board and others about developing a good OL takes years and patience? How many times have we heard about "Sr laden" OL that other good teams are blessed with? Or fifth year Sr. that lead the OL's of teams that are enjoying success. Are we suppose to ignore all of that now?

Gran looks to be a home run hire at OC but that doesn't mean he deserves recognition and credit for Schlarman's work also. It is a pretty narrow mind that looks at a OL that has developed over the years into a good cohesive unit and ignore the coach that has been there from the start and is responsible for developing that line. Gran deserves his props but so does Schlarman. I say this and was one of those that thought Stoops should have kept Summers. Schlarman has done a great job and should be recognized for his efforts succeeding over the long haul rather than have his years of work credited to someone else.

 

[Poetax]

Gran is the upgrade Stoops wanted to have here all along and it's easy to see why. People seem to have a case of hero worship though. They ignore the years of work that Schlarman put in recruiting and developing an OL so as to heap all praise on their one selection. Gran has shown why Stoops wanted him from the start, but Schlarman is the coach that has been here with Stoops all along building the OL. How many times have we read the discussions on this board and others about developing a good OL takes years and patience? How many times have we heard about "Sr laden" OL that other good teams are blessed with? Or fifth year Sr. that lead the OL's of teams that are enjoying success. Are we suppose to ignore all of that now?

Gran looks to be a home run hire at OC but that doesn't mean he deserves recognition and credit for Schlarman's work also. It is a pretty narrow mind that looks at a OL that has developed over the years into a good cohesive unit and ignore the coach that has been there from the start and is responsible for developing that line. Gran deserves his props but so does Schlarman. I say this and was one of those that thought Stoops should have kept Summers. Schlarman has done a great job and should be recognized for his efforts succeeding over the long haul rather than have his years of work credited to someone else.

I agree that John doesn't need to be left out when it comes to praising the oline improvement but to Gran's credit and to John's delight, Gran played his offense to fit the strengths of the offensive line. That has not been the case since Stoops has been here. As John gets the type of linemen he needs, and he is getting there, I'm sure he will have them pass blocking as well as they run block, in this year.

 

[WeepNoMore]

No I said considering the dumpster fire Stoops inherited back to back 5 win seasons is a good season. I know how bad the roster was. You can argue all you want we will not agree. I take into account Joker had the worst roster in p5 football waiting for Stoops.

And I suppose Coach Brooks inherited a roster full of 4-and-5-stars?

Once the seniors finished their eligibility after his first year, Coach Brooks' roster was just as bare as Coach Stoops' first year. And Coach Brooks still managed to rebuild the program without the multitude of advantages that have helped Coach Stoops.

 

[EKCAT4YRS]

Have been told by several parents of OLmen that the kids have much love and respect for Coach John, jfwiw!

 

[zcats]

Is what it is. He was in a tough situation. He performed world's beyond anyone's expectations. Doesn't mean he doesn't have pretty severe physical limitations.

He's not tall. Moderate zip on the ball. Struggles seeing the middle of the field, probably due to height. Struggles completing balls to the middle of the field, probably same reason. Moderate speed. Severely undersized. Shockingly weak with the football - was almost a guaranteed strip if he didn't just slide.

His best physical gifts are his decent speed and really good/great deep ball accuracy. The rest are intangibles, which help him make up for the physical limitations.

Intangibles are what make a QB if you also mean vision, timing, and decision making ability. A lot of guys have physical attributes and can throw the ball a mile but they cannot play QB in college. Go back and look at the top rated QB recruits and how low the yield is for them. We had a couple just recently who had it all physically but were less than successful in college. A lot of great QB's are 6 feet or under. Drew Brees is one example. Johnson isn't Brees but he can play the game better than anyone we had in a long time.

 

[zcats]

And I suppose Coach Brooks inherited a roster full of 4-and-5-stars?

Once the seniors finished their eligibility after his first year, Coach Brooks' roster was just as bare as Coach Stoops' first year. And Coach Brooks still managed to rebuild the program without the multitude of advantages that have helped Coach Stoops.

I disagree, Brooks inherited much more talent. I really like both Stoops and Brooks but Stoops had much less to work with at the start.

 

[Deeeefense]

A lot of great QB's are 6 feet or under.

Johnson is 6' 2". Arron Rogers, Andy Dalton, Teddy Bridgewater and a few others are 6' 2". Russell Wilson is 5' 11".

 

[Poetax]

And I suppose Coach Brooks inherited a roster full of 4-and-5-stars?

Once the seniors finished their eligibility after his first year, Coach Brooks' roster was just as bare as Coach Stoops' first year. And Coach Brooks still managed to rebuild the program without the multitude of advantages that have helped Coach Stoops.

Yes the loss of scholarships did hurt Brooks in 2004 and 2005, but he had plenty of talent to make a bowl game with the group he inherited. If Gran would have been there, he would have had a field day with that group. Plus Brooks was an experienced HC, this wasn't his first rodeo. He managed to get a couple of very talented classes that he rode to the end of his coaching job here but there's the problem. His coaches were at a point in their careers that recruiting had passed them by and it showed when Joker took over. No one will deny that Stoops was having to learn on the job as a HC, and it wasn't always pretty but his recruiting out grades Brooks by a bunch even without the records that Brooks later had. Explain why Brooks's good records didn't turn into great recruiting classes? I don't have an answer for that except it had to be his coaching staff.

 

[WeepNoMore]

Yes the loss of scholarships did hurt Brooks in 2004 and 2005, but he had plenty of talent to make a bowl game with the group he inherited. If Gran would have been there, he would have had a field day with that group. Plus Brooks was an experienced HC, this wasn't his first rodeo. He managed to get a couple of very talented classes that he rode to the end of his coaching job here but there's the problem. His coaches were at a point in their careers that recruiting had passed them by and it showed when Joker took over. No one will deny that Stoops was having to learn on the job as a HC, and it wasn't always pretty but his recruiting out grades Brooks by a bunch even without the records that Brooks later had. Explain why Brooks's good records didn't turn into great recruiting classes? I don't have an answer for that except it had to be his coaching staff.

Simple answer to your question posed in your last sentence: Brooks had (1) little to no support from his AD and University administration, (2) antiquated recruiting room and training facilities, and (3) a stadium badly in need of renovation! In all likelihood very few out-of-state 4-and-5-star players, or even high 3-stars, would bother to listen to UK coaches. And, if we were fortunate enough to get them to visit, they were treated to a makeshift recruiting room and training facilities long past their prime.

 

[Poetax]

Simple answer to your question posed in your last sentence: Brooks had (1) little to no support from his AD and University administration, (2) antiquated recruiting room and training facilities, and (3) a stadium badly in need of renovation! In all likelihood very few out-of-state 4-and-5-star players, or even high 3-stars, would bother to listen to UK coaches. And, if we were fortunate enough to get them to visit, they were treated to a makeshift recruiting room and training facilities long past their prime.

I won't take up for any past administrations, they have done a terrible job I agree but him and Mitch were close friends so I'm not sure why he didn't give him more help.

 

[WeepNoMore]

I won't take up for any past administrations, they have done a terrible job I agree but him and Mitch were close friends so I'm not sure why he didn't give him more help.

IMHO, Barnhart bought "hook, line and sinker" into Todd's Olympic sports agenda and his assessment that UK FB fans would continue to buy tickets and attend games no matter what. This strategy worked fine for Barnhart, even after Todd retired, until a significant number of lifelong fans said "Enough is enough!" and season ticket sales plummeted. Joker Phillips was simply Barnhart's scapegoat or sacrificial lamb.

 

[Poetax]

IMHO, Barnhart bought "hook, line and sinker" into Todd's Olympic sports agenda and his assessment that UK FB fans would continue to buy tickets and attend games no matter what. This strategy worked fine for Barnhart, even after Todd retired, until a significant number of lifelong fans said "Enough is enough!" and season ticket sales plummeted. Joker Phillips was simply Barnhart's scapegoat or sacrificial lamb.

Well there are a lot that think like you.

 

[bigblueinsanity]

Intangibles are what make a QB if you also mean vision, timing, and decision making ability. A lot of guys have physical attributes and can throw the ball a mile but they cannot play QB in college. Go back and look at the top rated QB recruits and how low the yield is for them. We had a couple just recently who had it all physically but were less than successful in college. A lot of great QB's are 6 feet or under. Drew Brees is one example. Johnson isn't Brees but he can play the game better than anyone we had in a long time.

I said physical limitations. You think you're disagreeing with me but you actually just bolstered my argument

 

[3kidsandme]

And I suppose Coach Brooks inherited a roster full of 4-and-5-stars?

Once the seniors finished their eligibility after his first year, Coach Brooks' roster was just as bare as Coach Stoops' first year. And Coach Brooks still managed to rebuild the program without the multitude of advantages that have helped Coach Stoops.

Your right and Brooks struggled until year 4 and was like 68 years old. My argument is not if Brooks did a good job it's the fact his age did not inspire financial support.

 

[zcats]

I said physical limitations. You think you're disagreeing with me but you actually just bolstered my argument

I don't think you read my post carefully but this is going no where.

 

[jauk11]

I won't take up for any past administrations, they have done a terrible job I agree but him and Mitch were close friends so I'm not sure why he didn't give him more help.

It could be one of those situations where with friends like that you don't need any enemies.

 

[Levibooty]

Intangibles are what make a QB if you also mean vision, timing, and decision making ability. A lot of guys have physical attributes and can throw the ball a mile but they cannot play QB in college. Go back and look at the top rated QB recruits and how low the yield is for them. We had a couple just recently who had it all physically but were less than successful in college. A lot of great QB's are 6 feet or under. Drew Brees is one example. Johnson isn't Brees but he can play the game better than anyone we had in a long time.

If you are including Barker in this then I think you are rushing to judgement about his abilities. I will hold my judgement about him. I still say that our running backs and our OL are the two biggest reasons for our success last year. I think everybody remembers the UL game and think that is how SJ played all year which is not true. I'm not dismissing what SJ accomplished last year, he did well, but he spent a lot of his time spread out in the wildcat. This is where Gran's coaching and schemes showed out more than SJ play at QB IMO. Barker never got that luxury so far at Kentucky. He only played a minimal number of games under Gran and Hinshaw, one game against UF with one of the strongest defenses in the country, and who knows for sure when he injured his back.
Those are the reasons I withhold my judgement.

 

[jauk11]

Simple answer to your question posed in your last sentence: Brooks had (1) little to no support from his AD and University administration, (2) antiquated recruiting room and training facilities, and (3) a stadium badly in need of renovation! In all likelihood very few out-of-state 4-and-5-star players, or even high 3-stars, would bother to listen to UK coaches. And, if we were fortunate enough to get them to visit, they were treated to a makeshift recruiting room and training facilities long past their prime.

Quit taking all the easy questions!!

In the 2002 class when probation hit us I think we were limited to 15 commits, and while Yancy was a four star I don't know what happened to his career. We also only had ONE three star IIRC, and that was a JC transfer. I tried to look up that class but Rivals cut the list off at 65 and I am sure we were way below that. They also cut the SEC list off at 10, which left off UK and Vandy, interesting to note however that Ole Miss in tenth place still had a five star and 8 four stars, and scarier yet Thug U led the SEC and they only had double our three stars, two, but that was because because they had FIVE five stars and SIXTEEN four stars, only room for two two stars so we ran all over them there with the 13 two stars we had out of 15 in the class.

 

[bigblueinsanity]

I don't think you read my post carefully but this is going no where.

I originally posted he had some pretty severe physical limitations and that his intangibles made him effective.

You disagreed and started laying the reasons hes effective. They were all intangibles.

 

[zcats]

If you are including Barker in this then I think you are rushing to judgement about his abilities. I will hold my judgement about him. I still say that our running backs and our OL are the two biggest reasons for our success last year. I think everybody remembers the UL game and think that is how SJ played all year which is not true. I'm not dismissing what SJ accomplished last year, he did well, but he spent a lot of his time spread out in the wildcat. This is where Gran's coaching and schemes showed out more than SJ play at QB IMO. Barker never got that luxury so far at Kentucky. He only played a minimal number of games under Gran and Hinshaw, one game against UF with one of the strongest defenses in the country, and who knows for sure when he injured his back.
Those are the reasons I withhold my judgement.

I wasn't including Barker, he isn't finished.

 

[zcats]

Your right and Brooks struggled until year 4 and was like 68 years old. My argument is not if Brooks did a good job it's the fact his age did not inspire financial support.

His age had nothing to do with it. Brooks is the most accomplished football coach at UK since Bear Bryant. UK didn't support any football coach adequately from Fran Curci until Mark Stoops. In between it has all been on the cheap. Joker was a "young" coach and UK didn't give him anything to work with.

 

[zcats]

I originally posted he had some pretty severe physical limitations and that his intangibles made him effective.

You disagreed and started laying the reasons hes effective. They were all intangibles.

I disagreed that he has severe physical limitations. You make it sound like he is in a wheelchair. Within reason physical characteristics like a cannon for an arm, height, weight and strength are helpful but certainly not necessary to be a successful college QB. Those physical attributes alone don't make you effective at this level. If that was the case then Newton and Towles would have been dynamite. Johnson's arm is strong enough, he is tall enough, he is skinny but he is also an elusive runner and being light probably helps his quickness and speed. He could be stronger but you can't have everything. He can play the game and he is just a very good college QB. I don't know why some people can't just see that without adding a lot of disclaimers.

 

[Levibooty]

SJ fumbles far too easily and is poor on his intermediate throws. He does have the calm demeanor that is a great trait. The UL game most definitely put a glossy shine on his resume. We are going to miss Boom Williams a lot more than some think, he was our home run threat from anywheres on the field and SJ will have to step up his play to compensate I believe. I hope he has gain strength in the off-season.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

We are hearing SJ is getting stronger. If so, he could be a better runner and should be able to protect the ball better. Reports say his understanding of the offense has greatly improved, giving Gran more to work with and his intermediate passes have improved dramatically. He should be a much better QB this year than he was as a spring admit Juco.

 

[3kidsandme]

His age had nothing to do with it. Brooks is the most accomplished football coach at UK since Bear Bryant. UK didn't support any football coach adequately from Fran Curci until Mark Stoops. In between it has all been on the cheap. Joker was a "young" coach and UK didn't give him anything to work with.

I agree in the past football was neglected no doubt about it. Barnhart has come threw it took him a while but he had to jump threw hoops to get it is all I'm saying.

 

[jauk11]

His age had nothing to do with it. Brooks is the most accomplished football coach at UK since Bear Bryant. UK didn't support any football coach adequately from Fran Curci until Mark Stoops. In between it has all been on the cheap. Joker was a "young" coach and UK didn't give him anything to work with.

Well said.

 

[jauk11]

I agree in the past football was neglected no doubt about it. Barnhart has come threw it took him a while but he had to jump threw hoops to get it is all I'm saying.

More than a decade, and then under duress. Do you realize how much money the money cow was throwing away for a while, and a lot of those fans will never be season ticket holders again.

Of course the athletics department has money to burn now, and a lot of it is due to the other SEC teams recognizing what the money cow was, UK was freeloading for quite a while, a shame when you realize UK fans filled CW to capacity in 07 (and I am talking about the 69,000 capacity) with a team that finished with a losing record in the SEC.