Comparing the number of free throws when one team is obviously being more aggressive on defense is laughable.
Roger Ayers
- Thread starter Wonky
- Start date
I didn't see anything out of the usual other than the typical home team friendly whistle. Clemson was allowed to play more aggressively. As will every other team we play on the road this year, and as we will be allowed to in Rupp. It's human nature. We were probably better than Clemson last night. But they had the home court advantage, which typically includes the benefit of the doubt on every call
1. We could/should have won if we had cleaned up some stuff. Even being modestly ok at the FT line would have captured a W.
2. Entirely separate from the fact we could/should have won anyway is the fact that stats do not lie when it comes to Roger Ayres and UK’s record, particularly on the road. When I saw he was calling this game, I already assumed it was a long shot to win. This isn’t a case of paranoia about the refs. It’s simply recognizing that UK was going to be at a huge statistical disadvantage in this particular game.
Say what you will, but the stats don’t lie. Frankly I was pleased we were able to overcome our own silly mistakes AND the presence Ayers on the whistle to still have a chance to pull out the win at the end.
2. Entirely separate from the fact we could/should have won anyway is the fact that stats do not lie when it comes to Roger Ayres and UK’s record, particularly on the road. When I saw he was calling this game, I already assumed it was a long shot to win. This isn’t a case of paranoia about the refs. It’s simply recognizing that UK was going to be at a huge statistical disadvantage in this particular game.
Say what you will, but the stats don’t lie. Frankly I was pleased we were able to overcome our own silly mistakes AND the presence Ayers on the whistle to still have a chance to pull out the win at the end.
Back in the day coaches were able to “blackball” certain referees from calling their games but I don’t think that’s an option now .
You mentioned 4 losses , 1 in which we had 4 players foul out , what about the other 5 ?
Oh man, I remember those two 2014 losses. I remember turning the tv off for the unc game and going to bed pissed after the ark game lol.
Just post the link to his business I’ve got a nice review already typed up
You either didn't watch the game or you have other motives in this argument. Listing the stats alone are totally misleading and short-sided. Anybody who watched the game would recognize that Clemson was FAR more physical than UK was, and yet the fouls were fairly even. Take that sh*t argument somewhere else.
Ayers pooped in my chimney after Higgins was done.
I don't care for the guy, but there were 2 other officials on the floor as well. Make shots-Win games.
Agree... but one, shall we say "motivated," official can dramatically impact a game in many, sometimes subtle, ways. Stats don't lie, and Ayers is a statistical outlier.
This type of argument is so flawed it is laughable. You act like refs aren’t smart enough to keep things looking reasonable. The issue is not necessarily the calls but the non calls. The game was heavily officiated one way for Clemson on D and another way for UK on D. If Clemson were treated the same way on D as UK and didn’t adjust, UK would have and should have way more free throws.
But hey it looks even so it must have been officiated properly.
Oh boy, Mr. Simple here.
You know that refs influence the outcome of games WAY more than what you see in the FT disparity.
Did you know that when refs don't call fouls or rules violations that there are no free throws? Did you know that these no-calls directly influence the game?
Did you know that a ref can concentrate fouls on one or two key players well before either team is in the bonus, or not in the act of shooting? From this, did you know that free throw numbers don't change because no one is shooting free throws on fouls that aren't committed in the act of shooting or for 7+ team fouls (e.g., "bonus" or "bonus+")?
Funny how this rarely to never translates to Rupp in a big game...odd in fact...
This assumes the refs wouldn't have done a little more to make sure those "modestly OK" FTs or a couple more threes. Your assumption is that all calls / no calls that occurred would have not changed or been increased had we scored more points. Definitely no way to speculate that we would have won when the topic is that the refs or a single ref were in on the fix to make sure we didn't win. They'd have just found a couple more ways to shaft us in no calls or critical calls against critical players to put them on the bench or lessen their aggressiveness.
One reason Schneffel or whatever his name was was so aggressive and "energetic" - he had no fouls and after some time knew the refs weren't going to call any on him. Hell, if I knew I had a free pass to shove and push to get rebounds all game, I'd be the most electric lunatic on the court!
No calls are HUGE in creating issues for the opposing team in that it enables players who are benefitting from the no calls to play much more loosely. Just look at it when a kid has 3 or even 4 fouls - they play totally differently on both the defense and offensive ends of the court.
One of them I've seen a few times at Rupp games and he's also questionable. The younger dude with perfect hair and trimmed eyebrows that looks like some wax figurine.
But Ayers was likely the crew chief, and I'm guessing they drive the tone of how the crew is going to call the game - both before and during the action where they adjust to the physicality or attitudes of players/coaches.
I mentioned 5 losses. The fourth bullet referenced two losses.
But it looks like our record under Ayres is as follows:
- 3-1 at Rupp
- 7-3 at neutral site
- 3-9 on the road
If you play a quality opponent in their gym, there’s a good chance you could lose, even if you’re a good team. That’s why our record in games reffed by Ayre’s looks the way it does.
But thanks to Jon Scott’s herculean efforts to compile UK data, it’s pretty easy for folks to look into this stuff before jumping to a conclusion.
Who was the lead official? They set the rules for the game and the others follow or else. I don't know for sure, but Ayers is almost always the lead based upon his seniority.
In today's game refs are not there to enforce rules violations. They are there to manage the game and make sure that the game is entertaining for the TV crowd, and to make sure Vegas is happy.
I'm not suggesting the refs necessarily fixed or rigged the game. I'm simply stating UK is statistically far more likely to lose than usual when Ayres is on the whistle, and that is unlikely to be an anomaly. For whatever reason, UK opponents tend to benefit if he is calling the game.
Precisely. It is unlikely to be an anomaly based on the sample size.
Missed free throws are what really lost the game. However, I noticed on what was the last basket that Clemson made their player drove to the basket rather than jump straight up or even into Kentucky's player he jumped away from him like he got hit and fell sprawling to the floor. This is something Duke and UNC used to do. I remember seeing Hansboro or Zeller running down the floor next to an opponent and then flinging their arms and body away from them like they got hit. If a ref isn't watching closely but sees it from a distance or from the corner of their eye it looks like a foul.
I don't think Ayers (or any other referee) is truly out to get Kentucky...but college basketball refs, in general, are by far the worst at getting influenced by home crowds. You generally have to be 8-10 points better to win on the road. We will lose at least 4-5 similar games on the road in the SEC.
Was the only thing cal ever said that was actually useful imo.
That said, refs killed us. That clear foul where butler lost the ball completely reversed momentum was a giant play. Not to mention all the other fouls that kept us from getting to spots or out in transition.
Those two unc games were horeshit. They shot 40 free throws in that first one. And we weren’t allowed to breathe on Zeller. We had like 3 or 4 guys foul out. And i’ll never forget Bryce Johnson or w/e his name was two arms in the back shoving andrew harrison to the ground in the middle of the court late in the 2014 game to get a steal and game clinching dunk. Blatant.
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Your post reminded me of an article I read a few years ago when the NBA ref got caught cheating. The article had several anonyous ref quotes and one of them was about foul disparity. He said they pay attention and if they see a big foul dispartiy they try to equalize it before the game is over. Is it just me that thinks it, or does that give an edge to the team that plays more physical?
Are they out to get UK? Maybe not but are they out to influence games based on sports gambling? I think the answer to that is an emphatic yes.
The average number of fouls in a CBB game is around 18. There were 35 called last night. Regardless of who got the calls (20 on us). A fast, run and gun offense needs to develop a flow, a rhythm. Hard to do with constant whistles.
Especially free throws. Missed enough to win the game.
Two things can be true, you can be paranoid, and someone can actually be out to get you. We have a 13-13 record with a certain official? I don't think that's just a weird outlier.
Heck, take away that horible end-of-the-shot clock banked in 3 and all we needed was 2 free throws.
So are we saying refs are crooked towards UK, or they USED TO BE crooked towards Calipari?
I can buy one of those, but not both.
I can buy one of those, but not both.
They played ultra physical the whole game with no real foul trouble. Makes it hard. Butler and Oweh out early really hurt. We wasn't the same after all those first half calls.
School should be able to block several officials. They are human and can be biased like anyone. This would stop these crazy stats.
They were ACC refs and were at risk of going 0-10 last night. It was definitely a screw job and we shot as bad as we could shoot and still almost won
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