Give Woody a trial run during the bowl game.
Rich Scangarello Out
- Thread starter UKCATS8
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As far as hiring bad OC's, iirc Lincoln Riley was set to be our next OC when Gran ended up with the position. We were set to introduce him and then brother Bob swooped in at the last minute and stole him. So it's not like he hasn't had an eye for coaching talent. Neal Brown was not his decision, he was part of a package deal to placate fans by Mitch. Dawson was supposed to be another branch of air raid and give continuity to the Brown era but the whole Holgerson side is terrible. Gran wasn't a bad hire and really the one Stoops made without outside pressure and Coen was good. Scangarello is really the only failure at OC where it's all on Stoops.
Absolutely - Coen proved what he can do in the SEC in a single season - if we had a 30+ppg offense like we had when he was here we would win 9 games easy, but likely 10 and the season is dramatically different.
Our Red-zone offense was MONEY when Coen was here. He was a perfect fit for us and worked great with Stoops - most effective and balanced offense BY FAR of the Stoops era.
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Thoughts on Michigan last year and this year? Harbaugh reverted to his roots. 24-2 and a playoff spot secured.
You have to be able to take that (encylopedia of football knowledge) and condense it to teach/develope 18-22 year olds on how to execute it! This isn't the NFL.
Its a good question but i think the answer is not everyone has a good offense all the time, they go in spurts as well and its a combination of having the right players and play callers together. We thought we had that set up this year but the Oline struggles seemed to derail all of that. Then our OC struggles to adjust to handling pressure that came relentlessly.
But I do think our HC affects it some with his preference to just play slower. The one thing is universally proven for any offense is the faster you play the more yards and points you put up. Its just built into the DNA of any offense that when you line up quicker, snap it quicker, play with fire and rhythm and leaning forward you move the ball better. That's why even the worst offenses move the ball better in two minute drills. UT was the perfect illustratino of what happens when you have the right players, with the right play caller, playing fast.
So I do think Stoops has to allow his new OC to use tempo as part of their attack and stop worrying about a few quick three and outs fatiguing his defense. The upside will outweight that and we finally have the skill players to pull it off.
In the first game of his tenure at Kentucky, his QB threw for 300+ yards in the first half of a game against Southern Mississippi, then was injured in the second half, leading to his diagnosis of a fracture following his exit in the third game, wherein Snell and journeyman QB Stephen Johnson emerged. The rest is history, as with good run blocking and a future NFL back, Kentucky found the formula to win at least 7 games a year.
Gran never recruited a good QB, in part because his offenses were stymied by losing the one QB that might have shown in a passing offense.
I agree.
For the first time in memory, we're starting to look like a SEC FB program re: staff management.
- A new OC was called in and he didn't measure up in year one.
- HC did an assessment and didn't see things getting better with the OC.
- OC was discharged.
Nice work by CMS having the OC on a short leash and pulling the rip cord, so we can get a better performer on the staff.
GBB!
Yet the Pac 12 and Big 12 have yet to win it all. You have to be balanced in my opinion. I look for Bama to fire their DC this year. It is important to score points and be efficient on Offense but you have to be stout on Defense.
He had a decent start and I'll never forget how giddy he was after the Florida game. He basically said he was having more fun than he'd evey had coaching. Feel for the guy a little as it wasnt all on him.
Coen averaged 30+ vs sec competition? I think you better look again. I remember LSU, UT, and maybe vandy where we looked good. Rest of the sec games we looked awful.
I loved coen too but there's a lot of revisionist history from former pirate fans. I guess they all took down the mike leach poster on their bedroom wall and put up one of Liam coen
My issue isn’t that we fired Rich. It needed to be done. My issue is that it needed to be done and we seem to keep having these issues with our coordinators. We’ve had 2 offenses under Stoops ranked in the top 70 in the country. We’ve had 6 ranked in the 100’s (4 if you take away his first 2 years). That’s my frustration. A new OC isn’t going to fix the issue as I see it.
Yep. We really needed him to work out. He would've stayed his full time, been a huge pull for a transfer QB, and been one more example of another success story when we went back to the NFL oc well again.
I can't imagine we wait to long to make the hire. We have to keep players here and look like an attractive destination for a QB in the portal. We need to make a big splash with this hire.
I hope we stay away from NFL coaches. Most just want to get right back to the NFL. I'd rather have a coach that wants to work his way up to college head coach. I also want us to run a more uptempo offense (if Stoops would allow it). Seems to be a big equalizer against better teams.
I hope we stay away from NFL coaches. Most just want to get right back to the NFL. I'd rather have a coach that wants to work his way up to college head coach. I also want us to run a more uptempo offense (if Stoops would allow it). Seems to be a big equalizer against better teams.
30 second internet search and I came up with this little nugget written when Coen left last year.
"Third and long used to be a death sentence. The Wildcats converted just 36.6% of the time, ranking 95th nationally in 2020. This year Kentucky moved the chains on 50% of its third downs, the fifth-best mark in the country. The improvement was even more drastic in the red zone. Kentucky jumped from No. 106 in red zone touchdown percentage (51.5%) to No. 8 overall (72.2%) under Coen’s watchful eye."
Don't let facts get in the way of a good story ; -)
Scoring Defensive rankings to date: Georgia No. 1; Michigan No. 3; Ohio State No. 10; Bama No. 13.
Defense is big.
If we can ever grow an offense to match our annual Top 20 defense, look out! (Kentucky currently 12th scoring defense).
I liked Coen and would take him back, but our offense was ranked 37th in total yards per game under him. Not terrible and definitely respectable.
Maybe the most critical hire for UK football going forward. Key, Brown, TE group, etc are maybe the best skilled position group has had at one. This hire is gonna be very, very important.
Stoops needs to hit a homerun here.
Stoops needs to hit a homerun here.
Boys, bring back Tim Couch as offensive coordinator and see if Belichick will take over the defense and hire the guy Mark Wahlberg played in the movie Invincible for special teams.
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I'm guessing you and I disagree about what is best football philosophy for UK. (That's okay, and one of the things about internet boards. We're all armchair coaches ; -) You always seem civil, so I'll give my take on OC's. I'm just ranking them 1-5.
Neil Brown - Good OC. (I give him a 4.) Left to become a head coach. We didn't win many games, but ... we were starting Whitlow at QB. Our talent level was OVC level.
Shannon Dawson - Weak OC (I give him a 2.) Talent level was still low, but he didn't do anything here or at other schools.
Eddie Gran - Good OC (I give Eddie a 4.) Here's only reason I grade Eddie a 4. Gran built his offense around his available talent. They threw it all over the field at UC. He came to UK and QB looks like 2nd coming of Tim Couch. QB literally breaks his back, and we suddenly become a power running team with Benny, Boom, and Johnson. I do knock Eddie for not being able to recruit/develop a QB. We ended up with 3 QB's his last year and he still got Bowden to lead us to a bowl victory. Adapting the plan on the fly to fit talent and injury is sign of a very good coach to me. Yes, we got labeled as ground and pound, and it hurt recruiting. I understand making the change. The fact he's still around the program is a sign of how much respect Stoops has for Gran. (Well deserved in my opinion.)
Coen - Very good OC. (I give him a 5.) He left for his dream job in the NFL. (Super Bowl Champs Previous Year!) He had a quality QB, and did a very good job mixing in the deep pass off of play action. I think he would have mixed in the intermediate routes with this year's receiving talent while still maintaining strong running game.
Scang - Mediocre OC (I give him a 3, just because I think he's better than Dawson.) Scang inherited some top playmakers at QB, RB, and WR. Levis was injured and took away many things he did well last year. I don't know who to blame for OL, but that was a disaster for much of the season.
Here's bottom line for me. UK would have never paid out $2 million in the past to get rid of a mediocre coordinator. Yes, football is the cash-cow. But, it appears that UK is giving Stoops what he needs to try and get UK to next level.
I like complimentary offensive football (50/50 run-pass). I like being able to run the ball when we're up 10 or more in 4th qtr and the opposing team being able to do little to stop it. Its easy to criticize Stoops for offense, but outside of Dawson, I see little to complain about related to offensive hires and on field calls.
We have stats flying all over the place incorrectly. I prefer scoring offense more than total offense (I don't care a ton for yards vs pts).
As you can see below
- Brown was not a failed OC under Stoops. His first year w/Towles at QB was a very good build and was trending great. Then he gets the Troy HC job....but those labeling Brown a bust have no basis.
- As we can see with Coen....best year by a mile under Stoops
So the fairest argument is Dawson was a bad hire and Scang was a bad hire. Gran ended up poorly but last year but he was not terrible.
I get Stoops struggles with offense but Stoops puts some solid D on the year in and year out. And Stoops desires for strong run game does at least control the clock and good in trenches. If Stoops fails on another OC..>I get not giving him more chances. But so far he's had 5 OCs. Brown was fine, Coen was exceptional, Gran was mediocre to me and Scang/Dawson were terrible. The narrative they all stink under Stoops is not reality.
Scoring offense
2022 - 22pts a game 105th (Scang)
2021 - 32 pts a game 38th (Coen)
2020 - 21 pts a game 107th (Gran)
2019 - 27pts a game 76th (Gran)
2018 - 26pts a game 84th (Gran)
2017 - 25pts a game 87th (Gran)
2016 - 25pts a game 95th (Dawson)
2015 - 29pts a game 60th (Brown)
2014 - 20pts a game 107th (Brown)
As you can see below
- Brown was not a failed OC under Stoops. His first year w/Towles at QB was a very good build and was trending great. Then he gets the Troy HC job....but those labeling Brown a bust have no basis.
- As we can see with Coen....best year by a mile under Stoops
So the fairest argument is Dawson was a bad hire and Scang was a bad hire. Gran ended up poorly but last year but he was not terrible.
I get Stoops struggles with offense but Stoops puts some solid D on the year in and year out. And Stoops desires for strong run game does at least control the clock and good in trenches. If Stoops fails on another OC..>I get not giving him more chances. But so far he's had 5 OCs. Brown was fine, Coen was exceptional, Gran was mediocre to me and Scang/Dawson were terrible. The narrative they all stink under Stoops is not reality.
Scoring offense
2022 - 22pts a game 105th (Scang)
2021 - 32 pts a game 38th (Coen)
2020 - 21 pts a game 107th (Gran)
2019 - 27pts a game 76th (Gran)
2018 - 26pts a game 84th (Gran)
2017 - 25pts a game 87th (Gran)
2016 - 25pts a game 95th (Dawson)
2015 - 29pts a game 60th (Brown)
2014 - 20pts a game 107th (Brown)
Lol. He's on staff and has the gravitas to make his opinion/knowledge known.
And I doubt he would want OC, at this stage.
Fair enough. There’s definitely a philosophical argument to be made. I don’t think a new OC is going to drastically change how we play. Maybe Stoops changes his approach, but I don’t see that happening. His style can win 7 games a year with the occasional 9 when the stars align. I think if we got more aggressive offensively, we could win 9 more often. Especially with how the division has been lately.
Even looking at points per game, those years still average at 84. That’s not very good. 4 offenses ranked above 80. Only 1 in the top 40. That’s bad.
I’ll eat my hat if it’s Coen.
So would I, but gladly. Just can't see it. He will be an nfl head coach this season or next
If you took a j
If you took a job that your wife wouldn’t even leave California to come be with you at do you think you’d be in a hurry to take it back? Assuming you don’t hate your wife?
If Saban makes a move at DC, if I were him, I'd make a bee line to Lexington, Kentucky.
Brad White may well be the best in the business.
For sure Stoops isn't going to usually be a top 20 offense...and I think that is what separates him from top tier SEC coaches like Smart, Saban, Kiffen and Huepel. And he might be in a poslition to being passed by Beamer, Freeze is coming on board, etc...
But to be fair, he's going to run the ball and that will burn clock and that holds down scores. He's not likely to ever have a top 10 offense. BUt I agree we need to start having a floor of 60's and more in the 40's and 30's to show progress. I tend to feel we'd have had an offense in the 40's at worst if Coen had stayed.....which is why I'm on board with firing Scang and not killing Stoops a ton on it
Bring Bob Stoops in and let him run the offense! That way all 3 brothers are on staff. He’ll tell Mark where to go if he tries to handcuff his offense!
Bob is also defensive oriented. He brought in OC's at Oklahoma to handle that side of the ball.
I think he could be scary good with that kind of talent. He really wouldn’t have anyone he had to scheme to protect on that team. That’s not always the case here. I personally think he is too loyal to Stoops to make that move, NFL I could see that or a HC gig, not someone on our schedule next year.
TN's OC is a figurhead, Chumlee's his own OC. SCAR's OC is likely headed to Nebraska, he has a history with their new coach.
