Rich Scangarello Out

[3632]

Coen has to be option 1-4 and throw your bank at him. He’s the only known commodity we have that can work within the constraints of how stoops wants to play and have a functional offense while targeting having 55 snaps a game…frankly in this age of football very few coaches can coach that way because nobody does. So there isnt much to pull from. I mean it took Coen half a season to figure out how to do it so anybody else along the same lines would have a learning curve. If he says no then I guess we offer Brian ferentz or jimbo fisher. Not a fan either of anybody nfl that hasn’t coached in college in a while

 

[JBHolmesfan]

This post is as goofy as JB Holmes golf swing. The difference is he was successful with that swing. You aren't with this post.

Of the 4 on your list, Dawson is the only one who there were issues with prior to Rich (Maybe Gran at the end of his tenure but they weren't really issues). Brown's teams won 2 games and then 4 games but that was due to talent. His QB was Jaylin Whitlow for goodness sake. There were issues with Dawson. Gran was very successful here. He won a lot of games. That can be true while also being true that it was time for a change. Scan was behind the 8 ball a lot this year. Much of it was his fault but some wasn't such as Levis being hurt most of the year. We saw a different Levis at the end of the year when he was feeling a little better. It's hard to be successful when you lose a chunk of playbook due to injuries.

Since 2015, we’ve had as many offenses ranked in the 100’s (4) as we’ve had in the top 80. This issue isn’t singularly with 1 coordinator not being good. After 10 years of having terrible offense after terrible offense, the blame has to be on Stoops. Either he cannot hire OC’s or he’s handcuffing them and not letting them do what they want.

Dawson and Gran both came to UK having a lot of success at other schools. They came here and flopped. We had some decent offenses under Gran, but nothing great. Gran had very good offenses at UC. We haven’t had a single top 30 offense in Stoops’ tenure. That speaks to something being an issue with Stoops and if we want to take the next step that has to change. 5 OC’s in 11 years is an issue. Especially since most have been fired.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

As you probably recall from our debates, I thought we could do better than scang when he was hired. As I watched his offense in action, I was actually encouraged and thought he was as good as we could hope for until woody was ready.

I thought scang did a good job but he wasn't as charismatic as coen so fans didn't like him. I also think it made it tougher for him to connect with players.

My biggest concern is continuity. We just can't have a different oc every season and expect to progress. Do we turn it over to woody now and hope he's ready? Go back to the NFL after ruining the career of a perceived smart football guy? Or change gears and schemes altogether?

I hope it's woody or another rams guy. We just can't continue to change schemes every year if we want over the hump

Is Woody ready? His players seem to love him and he appears a good recruiter. Can he teach and call Coen’s offense?

 

[HagginHall1999]

You may recall Stoops had his eye on a young guy, 37 or so I think but whose name escapes me, also with the 49ers, when he came across Scang while vetting the other guy. Anybody recall who that guy was?

Not sure if this is who you are referring to but Rob Calabrese almost got the job iirc. I think Rich came in last second and took it from him. Calabrese is with Jets...

Official Site of the New York Jets

www.newyorkjets.com

 

[CatCall]

Knowing and doing are always two separate things.

Scang was just too rigid. He was all about the system and he didn't stray at all from the system. At the college level, you either adapt on the fly, or you end up getting fired. Scang simply failed to play to the strengths of the guys he had.

Agree. I also wonder if he just lacks the motivational fire and connection to the guys. That is a huge part of being a "coach" and it seems it was lacking this year.

 

[JBHolmesfan]

Just because you’re tired of hearing about it doesn’t mean it isn’t important when talking about where we stand as a program. So he hasn’t been perfect with OCs, he’s at least trying to fix the issue instead of being content with going 7-5. Your post is the perfect example of why the pre Stoops days matter. 10 years ago we would be celebrating 7 wins and a bowl game. We are now firing coordinators because we won 7 games and didn’t live up to expectations.

We have a coach that’s proven more than once he can win double digit games in the SEC. We’ve had multiple chances the last few years to play in the SEC title game if a game goes our way that didn’t. If you are asking for more than this at this point, you’re just not being realistic.

I disagree he’s trying to fix the issue. We’ve been cycling through OC’s and our offenses have largely looked the same. We are a ground and pound team that isn’t interested in scoring a lot of points or having effective offenses. That’s the issue. It doesn’t matter how many OC’s we fire.

Stoops’ average offensive ranking in his tenure is 88. That’s horrendous. I’m sorry, but asking for better than that is not unrealistic. Especially if we’re willing to pay Stoops top 10 money and his assistants big money.

The pre Stoops days don’t matter to me because we’re largely a vastly different program. Stoops deserves credit for that. The support for the program for Stoops is nowhere near what it was for Brooks or Joker. There’s no disputing that. The standards of success need to change. 7 wins is the bare minimum and I’d argue 8 in most years lately given the state of the SEC east.

Putting everything our administration has into the program and still calling bowl eligibility a success is embarrassing in my opinion. I’m not saying we need to be 11-1 every year, but celebrating going to a bowl when our coaches are very handsomely paid and the facilities are incredible, is what is unrealistic to me.

 

[mrschwump]

Is Woody ready? His players seem to love him and he appears a good recruiter. Can he teach and call Coen’s offense?

Thought about him too, Coen brought Woodward here did he not? Imagine he'll be an OC, maybe HC in time. Seems I recall Coen saying Woodward was his "eyes in the sky(stayed in the press box IIRC)." Doubt he's ready but you never know.

 

[TucsonCat]

As you probably recall from our debates, I thought we could do better than scang when he was hired. As I watched his offense in action, I was actually encouraged and thought he was as good as we could hope for until woody was ready.

I thought scang did a good job but he wasn't as charismatic as coen so fans didn't like him. I also think it made it tougher for him to connect with players.

My biggest concern is continuity. We just can't have a different oc every season and expect to progress. Do we turn it over to woody now and hope he's ready? Go back to the NFL after ruining the career of a perceived smart football guy? Or change gears and schemes altogether?

I hope it's woody or another rams guy. We just can't continue to change schemes every year if we want over the hump

Yes. it wasn't that we averaged 32 points last season and 22 points this season. Why, how much more alike could two seasons go? No, I didn't like Scang because he wasn't as funny during the press conference. Poor old nerdy Scang just didn't get a fair shake.

Also, we didn't ruin his career. Journeyman position coach who never led an offense will go right back to jobs like he left. If he wants another shot but starting in the not best conference like everyone else, he can.

 

[fabcat]

Scang was a savant, according to all of the reports out of UK. He was an encyclopedia of football knowledge. White praised him. Stoops praised him. What the hell happened?

You can be a brilliant football mind but that doesn’t necessarily translate to being a good play caller. Some guys have it and some don’t. Believe Scang knows football as well as anyone, but he just didn’t have a feel for calling a game. Wasn’t good at stacking plays. And our red zone and what’s considered scoring zone 35 yard line and in he was just not very good.

 

[mrschwump]

Not sure if this is who you are referring to but Rob Calabrese almost got the job iirc. I think Rich came in last second and took it from him. Calabrese is with Jets...

Official Site of the New York Jets

www.newyorkjets.com

THANKS! That's who I was thinking of.

 

[3632]

Since 2015, we’ve had as many offenses ranked in the 100’s (4) as we’ve had in the top 80. This issue isn’t singularly with 1 coordinator not being good. After 10 years of having terrible offense after terrible offense, the blame has to be on Stoops. Either he cannot hire OC’s or he’s handcuffing them and not letting them do what they want.

Dawson and Gran both came to UK having a lot of success at other schools. They came here and flopped. We had some decent offenses under Gran, but nothing great. Gran had very good offenses at UC. We haven’t had a single top 30 offense in Stoops’ tenure. That speaks to something being an issue with Stoops and if we want to take the next step that has to change. 5 OC’s in 11 years is an issue. Especially since most have been fired.

People forget Gran had different style offenses in cincy.

 

[JBHolmesfan]

People forget Gran had different style offenses in cincy.

The question is why is that? Did Eddie change his mind or did Stoops tell him to run a different offense?

 

[BigBlueManSouthCentralKY]

Some opinions about the Rams offense being ranked 31st this year?

 

[The_Catfather]

Ultimately the protection issues couldn't be overcome this season and there's only so much Scangarello could do when the O-line is a turnstile. Add to that, we had a first-year center, new O-line coach with a new scheme, and Levis still has issues with checking down and his decision-making. That's a recipe for disaster. I wouldn't have been too upset if we kept Scang for another year because of all that.

There'd been rumors of a disconnect between him and some of the WRs (Robinson?). Not sure if that was true but it could be. If keeping some of the playmakers content this offseason meant Scang had to go, then he had to go.

 

[TOMCATS1990]

Scang was a savant, according to all of the reports out of UK. He was an encyclopedia of football knowledge. White praised him. Stoops praised him. What the hell happened?

Doesn’t translate to implementing a offense and then calling plays during the games. Whether it was the O-L Scang or a combination of both we struggled to move the ball and score points. UT has an offensive coordinator in name only that I’d look at if Coen is not available.

 

[The_Catfather]

Some opinions about the Rams offense being ranked 31st this year?

Stafford's career is running on fumes, they have terrible RBs and one good receiver who's now out for the season. Besides, from what I can gather, McVay still calls the plays.

 

[Crankdatmustard]

Some opinions about the Rams offense being ranked 31st this year?

Coen has already proved he can succeed in the SEC (took Kentucky from high 90's to ranked #36 in one season in total offense)

 

[Bluegrass79]

I here tell that if Kentucky had scored 25 points a game instead of 22 points a game they would have only lost to Tennessee. They went from 72% chance of scoring in the Red zone last year to 53% chance this year. Number 8 last year .
If we just had our offense from last year we could have been playing in the national ****ing championship tournament. We scored 30 points a game last year.

The offensive line should rebound some next year. We need to get this coordinator quickly. December 4th or 5th is when the transfer market opens up. We have got to try to get Cade McNamara from Michigan as a quarterback here.
We need to find biggest meanest toughest power
running back there is out there.

 

[Seakat311]

The offense runs thru the HC.

And thus the real problem

 

[Dontworryboutit23]

Some opinions about the Rams offense being ranked 31st this year?

Stafford has been hurt a lot of the year, and the rams rely on kupp way to much, they should definitely be better than 31st but they have had injuries and other problems

 

[lazydave841]

Some opinions about the Rams offense being ranked 31st this year?

Still not enough to get Coen back to UK. Talk about a pipe dream.

 

[ryanbruner]

Stafford has been hurt a lot of the year, and the rams rely on kupp way to much, they should definitely be better than 31st but they have had injuries and other problems

Coen also isn't calling the plays there.

 

[GGCAT]

If Liam is being scapegoated in LA as the reason for the Rams demise thats just ridiculous. If you watch him on the sidelines he obviously doesnt call plays when you work for control freak Sean McVay , doesnt even seem to wear and headset or earpiece to communicate with the coaches upstairs

Maybe he builds out the play book, but cant really see what role he plays....at least on game day


Truth is Rams got real old, real fast, have no plan B, and a HC whos pining to hit the trap door be a TV star.

So think he might be more than willing to listen

 

[IFerg1969]

I'm not sure it really matters that much. I still don't believe Stoops will ever fully trust any OC. "Complementary football" will always be king with Stoops.

Exactly! So, either Stoops does indeed hire new coordinators and then gives them a very tiny box from which to operate OR he actually does "turn them loose" but is just terrible at hiring offensive coordinators.

 

[Dontworryboutit23]

Coen also isn't calling the plays there.

I was going to point that out as well, I’m pretty sure Mcvay is still calling the plays

 

[IFerg1969]

Look, I guess I'd be happy if they were able to lure Coen back to UK. But, he worked with Kinnard, Fortner and Rosenthal. An All-American and 2 All-SEC guys. Having to replace those guys had a lot to do with UKs OL woes this year. Now, we all thought there was still talent there and that they would eventually gel and turn into a solid group. That didn't really happen until it was too late. I'm sure Coen would have been better this year than Scang, but I'm not sure he would have been light years better, especially when you factor in Levis' injuries and CROD being out the first 4 games.

 

[FltDoc]

Good call by Stoops... as this was a very hard decision. Less than mediocrity cannot be accepted going forward... especially, when those involved easily failed the "eye test"; i.e. game day -- t.v. time.

By all accounts he is loyal to those around him.

Even saying this is Entertainment to us, but real life issues (work) for the coaches.

So, kudos to him for having the cajones to move on....

Next up the OL coach: Watching their technique, how and who they blocked, etc. was a train wreck -- time to move on from here, too. Maybe, it's already been communicated and Stoops will let the next OC have a say in hiring? (I can only hope this is the plan).

Go CATS!

Edit: better send our DL coach to some NFL training camps, too... some work to be done, here, as well.

 

[BigBlueManSouthCentralKY]

Thanks to all for the input. I don't watch the Rams closely.

 

[Soupbean]

Scang was a savant, according to all of the reports out of UK. He was an encyclopedia of football knowledge. White praised him. Stoops praised him. What the hell happened?

I think 90% of it you can chock up to not being able to handle the rush. I think it even caught Scan off guard as he was more optimistic than most in the preseason about the Oline. And when we couldnt block he couldnt ever really apply the offense he had in mind (the one we saw in the first couple games).

I use this analogy alot but its like golf. You set a ball out on the fairway in a fluffy lie and even hackers like me will knock 7 out of ten of them on the green from 100 yds in. But if you step on that same ball and drive it halfway in the ground and then ask me to hit it, it aint moving. Resistance changes everything and thats what he found out. Can run plays that take longer than 3 seconds when the rush is on you like that.

His big downfall was not being able to adjust better than we should have to that problem IMO

 

[yoshukai]

As you probably recall from our debates, I thought we could do better than scang when he was hired. As I watched his offense in action, I was actually encouraged and thought he was as good as we could hope for until woody was ready.

I thought scang did a good job but he wasn't as charismatic as coen so fans didn't like him. I also think it made it tougher for him to connect with players.

My biggest concern is continuity. We just can't have a different oc every season and expect to progress. Do we turn it over to woody now and hope he's ready? Go back to the NFL after ruining the career of a perceived smart football guy? Or change gears and schemes altogether?

I hope it's woody or another rams guy. We just can't continue to change schemes every year if we want over the hump

It’ll b interesting to see if Stoops is ready to hand the reigns over to Scott Woodward. You and I know that was the destination plan once Coen left . It would provide continuity and the players love him . He was eventually going to be a “first year “ play caller here anyway. Maybe Stoops wants to go ahead and start the “on job training “ now . Kind of a risky move though.
Stoops has had one on one meetings with the players. I’m wondering if he asked their opinions on both Scang and Woody . Will this month and the bowl game be an audition for Woodward? Can we wait that long to make the decision?

 

[K_TIME]

Because we’ve had issues with 4 OC’s now. Brown, Dawson, Gran and now Rich have all been fired or we had issues with. This is a problem that’s squarely on Stoops.

I’m tired of hearing about the pre Stoops days as an excuse for why we can’t have a functioning offense more than once every 3/4 years. Prior to Stoops, we never had the investment we do now. Rich Brooks retired because Mitch wouldn’t give him a tenth of what he’s given Stoops in terms of support for the program. It’s a lazy argument to accept horrible offenses under Stoops despite being in the top 20 highest paid coaches because we sucked with Joker.

Brown was never fired....he left UK (and had a good 2nd year offense progression at UK) and went to Troy as HC.

 

[Creed Bratton]

Some of you people amaze me. You grip about our offense being horrible and then complain that he fired the OC.

 

[sieken]

It’ll b interesting to see if Stoops is ready to hand the reigns over to Scott Woodward. You and I know that was the destination plan once Coen left . It would provide continuity and the players love him . He was eventually going to be a “first year “ play caller here anyway. Maybe Stoops wants to go ahead and start the “on job training “ now . Kind of a risky move though.
Stoops has had one on one meetings with the players. I’m wondering if he asked their opinions on both Scang and Woody . Will this month and the bowl game be an audition for Woodward? Can we wait that long to make the decision?

The caveat to this is EG is there to help bring him along, if that’s the direction they go. EG can run an offense when he has a qb capable of consistently delivering the ball.

 

[Soupbean]

Agreed, praying he doesn’t hire another journeyman washed up coach. Give me a younger guy who wants to prove himself.

Agree.
Proven guys already have good jobs and are really just looking to move up to HC themselves.
Journeyman guys are not guarantee hires and without a connection here and if successful their first year will be hard to keep around too.
Got to find the young brilliant hot shot that wants to put a couple of years in here to prove himself before moving on. The problem with that is none of these types will registere with recruits right off.
Its a tough spot for Stoops. We all thought he found the formula pre-season with the NFL pipeline and pro offense guys coming in . . . now we're starting over.

 

[The-Hack]

Scang was a savant, according to all of the reports out of UK. He was an encyclopedia of football knowledge. White praised him. Stoops praised him. What the hell happened?

The million dollar question, literally.

Sometimes the "savant" who can impress fellow adults cannot communicate with the young folks. There are many human qualities that lead to great coaching, and few of them can be measured scientifically.

 

[IFerg1969]

Agree.
Proven guys already have good jobs and are really just looking to move up to HC themselves.
Journeyman guys are not guarantee hires and without a connection here and if successful their first year will be hard to keep around too.
Got to find the young brilliant hot shot that wants to put a couple of years in here to prove himself before moving on. The problem with that is none of these types will registere with recruits right off.
Its a tough spot for Stoops. We all thought he found the formula pre-season with the NFL pipeline and pro offense guys coming in . . . now we're starting over.

I don't disagree with anything you say here. My only observation is that there are great offenses all over the country and in the SEC. Clearly it's not impossible to have an excellent offense. So, why is it that everyone else (teams that actually emphasize having a great offense) seems to be able to do it but not UK?

 

[bigblueinsanity]

Hopefully they have a grand slam hire locked up, because that's lots of money.

Is Woody ready? His players seem to love him and he appears a good recruiter. Can he teach and call Coen’s offense?

Good question and I think we're about to find out. He isn't going anywhere and is the key to retaining all that young talent. Just can't see us forcing him and apparently yenser on a second oc.

Ya I would love coen back too but it just isn't plausible. He's going to be an NFL HC this year or next. He isn't coming back to call plays

 

[brian.mikeson]

Stoops is a defense-minded HC.

Stoops wants "complementary football.'

To him, that means the offense and special teams should be complementary TO the defense.
* offense based on "EFFICIENCY" (3-4yds on 1st Down...3-4yds on 2nd Down...get what's needed on 3rd). It's a 'move-the-chains' style that possesses the ball on long drives giving defense time to rest.
* special teams must be great on punt/kickoff COVERAGE (need ball in endzone every KO) and nearly 100% on Field Goals. Since offense is EFFICIENT instead of EXPLOSIVE, there won't be many TDs on long plays...so settling for FG's is part of the equation...FG unit must be nearly 100%.

FOOTBALL TODAY (outside most of the Big 10)...
* offense is about getting EXPLOSIVES -- plays over 15yds. Fewer plays per drive to score. More scores (runs or passes) that begin outside the Red Zone than in an Efficient offense.
* Defense and Special Teams should be complementary to the OFFENSE.
* Defense takes some risks and holds the other team enough not to get out-scored.
* Field Goals aren't as important since more points are being scored via TDs.

PARALLEL TO MODERN BASKETBALL:
* The Efficient approach leads to more FGs--worth 3pts. The Explosive to more TD's--eventually usually worth 7pts. That's 1.3x greater result on a TD than FG.
* The NBA has figured out that even though there is greater risk in shooting 3's, it makes sense to do it more since there'll be a 1.5x greater result on a made 3.
* While there is more risk in trying to execute Explosive plays than gaining 4yds on a run play in terms of turnovers, dropped passes, etc., modern analytics have proven that the reward is worth the risk.

Even Nick Saban who was maybe the best ever at Complementary Football ("Efficient" offense plus conservative, sound defense) realized several years ago that he'd need to evolve or go the way of the Dodo.

 

[TankedCat]

People loved Scran in the NFL.

What I know about football couldn't fill up a thimble but I've read more than once from self identified football analysts that the offensive schemes at Kentucky this year were too complex, especially with young WRs.

Regardless, the writing was on the wall after Ole Miss. It was in bright neon after Vanderbilt.

 

[qwesley]

Stafford's career is running on fumes, they have terrible RBs and one good receiver who's now out for the season. Besides, from what I can gather, McVay still calls the plays.

Last week only one of their starting OL was on a roster at the beginning of the year. MdVey does call the plays. Still, lots of griping about Coen in the fanbase.