Refs for Game Today

[mj2k10]

Everyone is going to have problems with specific calls, or how specific games are called. And I agree that SEC ref homerism seems blatantly bad at times. That's not really what I'm addressing here. I'm addressing the very commonly expressed attitude that "the refs should just let the players play". What that really translates into, as has been proven in college basketball and in the NBA, is that the players CAN'T play, because they're getting mugged by defenders anywhere they go on the court. The ONLY way to stop that is to call more fouls, and hopefully, as teams adjust over time, you find a happy medium.

I'd equate it to pass interference rules in football. A lot of those calls can seem subjective and inconsistent. But if you don't make those calls, and just "let the players play", then no one is going to be able to throw the ball, because almost all the advantage goes to the defender. Which (often) makes for a crappy, less entertaining game.

 

[brianpoe]

Everyone is going to have problems with specific calls, or how specific games are called. And I agree that SEC ref homerism seems blatantly bad at times. That's not really what I'm addressing here. I'm addressing the very commonly expressed attitude that "the refs should just let the players play". What that really translates into, as has been proven in college basketball and in the NBA, is that the players CAN'T play, because they're getting mugged by defenders anywhere they go on the court. The ONLY way to stop that is to call more fouls, and hopefully, as teams adjust over time, you find a happy medium.

I'd equate it to pass interference rules in football. A lot of those calls can seem subjective and inconsistent. But if you don't make those calls, and just "let the players play", then no one is going to be able to throw the ball, because almost all the advantage goes to the defender. Which (often) makes for a crappy, less entertaining game.

I get the clamp down for freedom of movement.

But it stopped being called this way since week 3.

Every now and then they will call the hand check.


The consistency and quality have been very poor this year.

 

[mj2k10]

I get the clamp down for freedom of movement.

But it stopped being called this way since week 3.

Every now and then they will call the hand check.


The consistency and quality have been very poor this year.

No different than any other year.

It just looks that way to you because they're calling more fouls. Which, if they're going to err (and, being human, they always will), is the direction they need to err. They erred the other way for 20 years, and the quality of the game went down the toilet.

 

[musrat59]

That's damn scary!

 

[musrat59]

I have to assume that John Higgins is related to Tim Higgins who was also a sorry official.

 

[Bill - Shy Cat]

The Jayhawks and GameCocks loved the games against us. The referees were blowing fouls.

 

[musrat59]

Said it will be enforced at the Tenn game Thu by allowing the Vols to shoot tech free throws to open the game.

Just for good measure, he has already ejected Briscoe for that game.

 

[musrat59]

Have you ever ejected a coach from a game, Lou.

 

[howercat]

and another for good measure, forcing Cal to sit out another game

 

[trinity45]

Yes, referees are calling more fouls this year. And that is a very, very good thing. Unless you're a fan of 53-41 national title games, or classic 2000's Big East-style wrestling matches where the teams might combine to hit 40 FG's total (if they're lucky).

I've got news for all the "refs need to stay out of it" people: The level of fouls being called now is NOT the aberration. The aberration was what was going on for over a decade before, when fouls called per game were at an all-time low. Want an example? UK was averaging 21 fouls per game prior to today, and UK's opponents were averaging 20.3. This is the first time since 1997 that UK is being called for over 20 fouls per game. But if you go back, UK averaged over 20 fouls per game 8 years in a row from 72-73 through 80-81, and then every season that Pitino coached.

More fouls called generally comes from the game being played at a faster pace- something the VAST majority of basketball fans enjoy watching. It may come off as ticky-tack and inconsistent right now, and some of it certainly is, but unless you enjoy basketball as a wrestling match, it's very much a necessary corrective for the way the game got away from the refs for 10-20 years, and turned into "football on the hardwood".

Not sure what this post has to do with the horrible officiating, bad calls like what I witnessed in the 1st half made all officials sick. When ESPN announcers start to make fun of the calls you now something stinks. According to your premise there should have been a lot more fouls called on USC because they played very physical trying to get back into the game.

 

[Aike]

Everyone is going to have problems with specific calls, or how specific games are called. And I agree that SEC ref homerism seems blatantly bad at times. That's not really what I'm addressing here. I'm addressing the very commonly expressed attitude that "the refs should just let the players play". What that really translates into, as has been proven in college basketball and in the NBA, is that the players CAN'T play, because they're getting mugged by defenders anywhere they go on the court. The ONLY way to stop that is to call more fouls, and hopefully, as teams adjust over time, you find a happy medium.

I'd equate it to pass interference rules in football. A lot of those calls can seem subjective and inconsistent. But if you don't make those calls, and just "let the players play", then no one is going to be able to throw the ball, because almost all the advantage goes to the defender. Which (often) makes for a crappy, less entertaining game.

You're discussing a diferent topic than everyone else. Did they merge threads?

 

[kycatw\claws]

We aren't really asking the right question. The question is who is assigning these refs to our games over and over? That person or those people know damn-well what they will get, and therein lies the issue.

 

[bigbluelou]

Have you ever ejected a coach from a game, Lou.

Only once. He was sending in goons and someone was gonna get hurt. I warned him and he started mouthing off, so I TEE'd him up. When I went to the scorer's table to administer the T, he came up and started yelling again. I warned him to stop and the next word out of his mouth toward me was going to be another T. He paused for a second...I could see he was thinking about it...then started in again. I TEE'd him up again and threw him out. I think he thought it was funny and knew they were going to lose (down by 20+ with less than two minutes left.) Was just a young middle school coach who was trying to get attention. Well, he got it. His school administrators called me at work Monday to find out what happened. I gave them the story and they said he was skating on thin ice and would not be coaching again next year if he kept it up. I guess he had quite a history in his short tenure. (Was Vincennes Lincoln school system - Indiana of course.)

 

[brianpoe]

Only once. He was sending in goons and someone was gonna get hurt. I warned him and he started mouthing off, so I TEE'd him up. When I went to the scorer's table to administer the T, he came up and started yelling again. I warned him to stop and the next word out of his mouth toward me was going to be another T. He paused for a second...I could see he was thinking about it...then started in again. I TEE'd him up again and threw him out. I think he thought it was funny and knew they were going to lose (down by 20+ with less than two minutes left.) Was just a young middle school coach who was trying to get attention. Well, he got it. His school administrators called me at work Monday to find out what happened. I gave them the story and they said he was skating on thin ice and would not be coaching again next year if he kept it up. I guess he had quite a history in his short tenure. (Was Vincennes Lincoln school system - Indiana of course.)

I tossed Sean Woods out, after a billion chances.

Also tossed out an entire crowd - well i didnt but the league and the police did, so we could finish the game.

I never tossed anyone in a high school game.

I enjoyed high school coaches, very emotional but could also be very important.

 

[the nail at the foul line]

Higgins is the ref that called Darius Miller for the UConn flop in 2011. He mad numerous bad calls against Wisconsin. We get him and we lose.

 

[bigbluelou]

I tossed Sean Woods out, after a billion chances.

Also tossed out an entire crowd - well i didnt but the league and the police did, so we could finish the game.

I never tossed anyone in a high school game.

I enjoyed high school coaches, very emotional but could also be very important.

Yeah I found h.s. coaches generally to be the most reasonable. Middle School and JV coaches are often trying to climb the coaching ladder and get a little carried away.

 

[mj2k10]

You're discussing a diferent topic than everyone else. Did they merge threads?

Yep.

And the last thing I'll say about this topic is this: The people who think the officials are worse this year are the exact same ones who thought the officials were terrible last year, 5 years ago, 10 years ago, 20 years ago, 50 years ago. They thought the officials were terrible/out to get UK in 11-12, when UK was called for 157 fewer fouls than opponents. What a shock that, in a season when foul calls are up nationwide, those same people think the referees have hit a new low.

I didn't like the level of aggressiveness that SC got away with yesterday, but I actually don't think the refs were all that inconsistent. A lot of the fouls that UK was getting dinged for in the lane came when UK big guys were chasing blocks, bringing their hands forward at the ball. SC was initiating the contact on a lot of those plays, but as soon as the UK defender brought his hands forward, I knew he was screwed. Disagree with how the refs were handling that all you want, but it wasn't actually inconsistent. I could hear the whistle coming as soon as I saw a UK big leaning forward.

 

[Aike]

Yep.

And the last thing I'll say about this topic is this: The people who think the officials are worse this year are the exact same ones who thought the officials were terrible last year, 5 years ago, 10 years ago, 20 years ago, 50 years ago. They thought the officials were terrible/out to get UK in 11-12, when UK was called for 157 fewer fouls than opponents. What a shock that, in a season when foul calls are up nationwide, those same people think the referees have hit a new low.

I didn't like the level of aggressiveness that SC got away with yesterday, but I actually don't think the refs were all that inconsistent. A lot of the fouls that UK was getting dinged for in the lane came when UK big guys were chasing blocks, bringing their hands forward at the ball. SC was initiating the contact on a lot of those plays, but as soon as the UK defender brought his hands forward, I knew he was screwed. Disagree with how the refs were handling that all you want, but it wasn't actually inconsistent. I could hear the whistle coming as soon as I saw a UK big leaning forward.

I've thought college basketball refs were terrible for a long time.

 

[ulismyman]

Officials need to have press conference...you dont just throw out a coach and call 4 techs then just take a shower and go home. No accountability

 

[Bill - Shy Cat]

I feel your pain, Ulisman. However, this just wouldn't be feasible

 

[Katwatcher]

Officials need to have press conference...you dont just throw out a coach and call 4 techs then just take a shower and go home. No accountability

What questions would you want asked?

 

[JFCats22]

Never.going.to.happen

 

[Ugoff]

You're assuming Sirmons showers on the regular.

 

[ulismyman]

What was your reasoning for tossing UK coach 2 mins into the game?? What could have been said that made you do that?? Do you two have a history that prevents you from calling a UK game objectively??? Are you on a power trip? Thats enough to get started

 

[Katwatcher]

What was your reasoning for tossing UK coach 2 mins into the game?? What could have been said that made you do that?? Do you two have a history that prevents you from calling a UK game objectively??? Are you on a power trip? Thats enough to get started

First of all it was Cals reaction on the side line, there was not much doubt that he was trying to get 2 technicals

 

[kats23]

What questions would you want asked?

After seeing the play where Murray got tackled and rolled up on, do you understand the head coach's reaction?
Buzz Peterson called you out publicly and said you are known for a short fuse. You're reaction to that?
In games where teams are considered physical, do you go into the game wanting to make a statement?

 

[Blueaz]

First of all it was Cals reaction on the side line, there was not much doubt that he was trying to get 2 technicals

So you are saying, he got tossed on purpose in the first couple of minutes of a very important road game.
Is that correct? Maybe I am misreading

 

[crazyqx83]

It's my understanding that refs have to file a form for every tech they call. I wonder how often those forms are even looked at by their superiors.

 

[SilentsAreGolden]

I don't think they need to have press conferences, but I do think an assessment needs to be done by the governing body, which I think it is after each game, and the results made public.

 

[anon_9qtxg60vqzy0y]

I would ask Sirmons why he sprinted all the way from the other side of the court when he wasn't involved in the first place.

 

[jedwar]

No on pressers for the refs. Just gives them more opportunity to be bigger than they should be.

The best refs are ones that are not known by name for the wrong reasons.

Leagues should be more proactive in not assigning problem refs to certain games. There are plenty of games for them to ref in.

Leagues must do better at true assessments of the grading systems for refs.

 

[jedwar]

I would ask Sirmons why he sprinted all the way from the other side of the court when he wasn't involved in the first place.

View embedded media

Noticed that. He was chomping at the bit to get things rolling.

 

[The_Answer1313]

First of all it was Cals reaction on the side line, there was not much doubt that he was trying to get 2 technicals

One? Maybe.

But trying to get 2 to get thrown outta the game? I highly doubt Cal was trying to do that.

 

[bigbluelou]

You're assuming Sirmons showers on the regular.

You win the internet today.

 

[jedwar]

Once Sirmons swooped in to trump the other ref involved and issued the first, it was over. Cal was done.

 

[Cawood86]

As I have said before, anyone that thinks these guys don't have agendas are just being willingly ignorant. Also, they know they can get away with it.

 

[bigbluelou]

I would ask this: "Would you like me to swell both your eyes shut or break your jaw? In other words, would you like not to be able to see for a few days or eat through a straw?"

 

[Rhavicc]

Press conferences would be a step in the right direction, but I think all conferences (or the NCAA itself) should hire staffers for the sole purpose of reviewing the performance of officials in every game. If an official makes a bad call, give him a mark, if the official collects so many marks in a game (we'll say, 3 bad calls), reprimand/pay reduction/suspension, if it continues, remove the official from the game and post a new job opening.
If officials knew that their job relied on their performance night in and night out, then their calls will probably become consistent night in and night out as well, and it would favor basketball as a whole.
Will it ever happen? Probably not, but I think that's the answer.

 

[IL Wildcat]

I do appreciate the sentiment, ulismyman. I don't think it's feasible for them to do a press conference after every game, but I would like to see officials held accountable and for some kind of public report given.

 

[Katwatcher]

So you are saying, he got tossed on purpose in the first couple of minutes of a very important road game.
Is that correct? Maybe I am misreading

It appeared that way to me, from his actions on the side lines. He said something to the ref and received 1st tech and then had to be restrained while hollering at ref. You just don't do that and not get a tech.

He was sure upset over something.