2003 Frosh PG McNamara Syracuse
2012 Teague
2015 Tyus Jones Duke
Ok, 3 out of the last 30, about what I figured. I’m good with an upperclassman PG then lol
2003 Frosh PG McNamara Syracuse
2012 Teague
2015 Tyus Jones Duke
Freshmen became eligible in 1975; it may be 3 in 49 years. I cannot recall any frosh PG champs before 2003.Ok, 3 out of the last 30, about what I figured. I’m good with an upperclassman PG then lol
Bibby in 97 for Zona.Freshmen became eligible in 1975; it may be 3 in 49 years. I cannot recall any frosh PG champs before 2003.
Yes and most of them were surrounded by veterans.Frosh Bibby led Arizona to the title in 1997; so 4 frosh PGs in 49 years have titles
Saul, Butler as a senior is way better than Ulis as a freshman. Ulis had a tremendous supporting cast which made him better. Butler is a heck of a player. His supporting cast is very good and I would say he has a better coach supporting him. We shall see. We both want the best for the cats. So glad the imposter is gone.I respect your view but I disagree with you on this one. Our elite freshmen point guard/combo guards have been light year's better than our veterans. Wall, Knight, Fox, SGA, Maxey, Murray, etc. vs. veterans like Hagans, Harrow, Wheeler, and Mintz. Even a freshman, backup point guard Ulis is better than anything we'll have this year with Butler and Kriisa.
Give me the elite freshman point guards any day over anything the portal can provide. Peterson is a future top 10 pick for a reason.
I think the argument isn't simply a matter of how many freshmen point guards have led their teams to a national title.Put an asterisk beside Jones because much of the time Cook had the ball running the Point.
I haven't made the argument that you construct a roster out of only freshmen. I'm making the argument that it's sensible to take a guy like Derrick Rose (if you can) and surround him with veteran players.Yes and most of them were surrounded by veterans.
Bibby had Simon and Terry in the backcourt with him.
Jones had Cook.
Teague bad Lanb and Miller. And a transcendent player in AD.
McNamara had a transcendent player in Carmelo Anthony. Warrick was a veteran.
Find a Wayne Turner clone. In that I mean a player that can score from his position when needed but prides himself in distributing the ball with great passes. Quite thinking of anything traditional as pg guards going inside to find big men for layups. UK will be shooting 3 from every position and running teams into mistakes. 15 years of dribble drive was a waste. With Pope that scheme goes away.I respect your view but I disagree with you on this one. Our elite freshmen point guard/combo guards have been light year's better than our veterans. Wall, Knight, Fox, SGA, Maxey, Murray, etc. vs. veterans like Hagans, Harrow, Wheeler, and Mintz. Even a freshman, backup point guard Ulis is better than anything we'll have this year with Butler and Kriisa.
Give me the elite freshman point guards any day over anything the portal can provide. Peterson is a future top 10 pick for a reason.
Would you pass on a guy with Wall or Rose freshmen-level talent? How about a De'Aron level talent?Ok, 3 out of the last 30, about what I figured. I’m good with an upperclassman PG then lol
If he is the right fit for the system, you take him.Would you pass on a guy with Wall or Rose freshmen-level talent? How about a De'Aron level talent?
The reality is that many freshmen are simply not good enough to compete at a Final Four level, but some are. I don't think it's smart to throw the baby out with the bathwater when it comes to how to construct a team. Yes, having an all-freshmen centered team is a bad idea, but surrounding a De'Aaron Fox-level point guard with veterans isn't the worst idea in the world.
Would you pass on a guy with Wall or Rose freshmen-level talent? How about a De'Aron level talent?
The reality is that many freshmen are simply not good enough to compete at a Final Four level, but some are. I don't think it's smart to throw the baby out with the bathwater when it comes to how to construct a team. Yes, having an all-freshmen centered team is a bad idea, but surrounding a De'Aaron Fox-level point guard with veterans isn't the worst idea in the world.
2003 Frosh PG McNamara Syracuse
2012 Teague
2015 Tyus Jones Duke
So we now have Bibby, El Amin, Jones, Teague, and McNamara since 1997.El-Amin
Why 97?So we now have Bibby, El Amin, Jones, Teague, and McNamara since 1997.
That's 5/27, or 19% of the time. When spread out over four years worth of point guards, freshmen starters winning it almost 20% of the time isn't really as horrific as some have made it sound.
Plus Rose was a rainbow three away. That would have been 6/27. That would have been a 22% success rate. A few others have been close: Jalen Suggs, Brandon Knight, Andrew Harrison, etc.
You'd think it wasn't possible based on how people have made it sound.
So we now have Bibby, El Amin, Jones, Teague, and McNamara since 1997.
That's 5/27, or 19% of the time. When spread out over four years worth of point guards, freshmen starters winning it almost 20% of the time isn't really as horrific as some have made it sound.
Plus Rose was a rainbow three away. That would have been 6/27. That would have been a 22% success rate. A few others have been close: Jalen Suggs, Brandon Knight, Andrew Harrison, etc.
You'd think it wasn't possible based on how people have made it sound.
It doesn't matter if a kid is a freshman, sophomore, or 5th year senior, you try to fill every spot with the best, most talented players that you possibly can. RunninRichie said it best about there not being a science to it. I don't care if it comes from recruiting, the portal, or kids returning, we need the best of the best.How many starting freshmen point guards have won a national championship in the last 30 years? And I’m not trying to be a smartass im genuinely curious. Obviously I know of Teague but who else? If it’s a low number and Pope has already been open about wanting to win a championship then my guess is it won’t be Popes strategy, and I’m good with that.
It doesn't matter if a kid is a freshman, sophomore, or 5th year senior, you try to fill every spot with the best, most talented players that you possibly can. RunninRichie said it best about there not being a science to it. I don't care if it comes from recruiting, the portal, or kids returning, we need the best of the best.
I will say these numbers will be scewed due to a far great number of "non-freshmen" actually starting at the PG position than actual freshmen. There are far more upperclassmen such as sophomores, juniors, and seniors that start at the collegiate level. So of course the numbers will be heavily tilted in their favor. Therefore, people should not go off these ratios when theorizing age and class to National Championships.We’re not splitting the atom here guys, it’s not this complex life saving equation. Simply put, 45 out of 50 national championships have been won by upperclassmen PGs. A PG is like the quarterback, the head of the offense. All things being equal I’d prefer someone with more experience. It’s not really this off the wall concept. No shit I’d take a John Wall, but how often do those guys come around? I’d prefer an experienced center as well, even though AD was a freshman.
And Teague was no world-beater as a freshman. By the end he was enough to get the job done, but half-way through the season I thought he would be the anchor that might sink the ship. Calipari should have at least had a backup plan there. But it worked out, so....Ok, 3 out of the last 30, about what I figured. I’m good with an upperclassman PG then lol
Are we not including Stephon Castle ? He was the PG at UCONN last year.So we now have Bibby, El Amin, Jones, Teague, and McNamara since 1997.
That's 5/27, or 19% of the time. When spread out over four years worth of point guards, freshmen starters winning it almost 20% of the time isn't really as horrific as some have made it sound.
Plus Rose was a rainbow three away. That would have been 6/27. That would have been a 22% success rate. A few others have been close: Jalen Suggs, Brandon Knight, Andrew Harrison, etc.
You'd think it wasn't possible based on how people have made it sound.
Tristen Newton was UConn's PG. He was a 2nd year portal addition and senior. Despite where he was drafted (generally not relevant to college impact or production) Castle was a role player at SF for UConn.Are we not including Stephon Castle ? He was the PG at UCONN last year.
Well, we've all been around long enough to know how freshmen were looked at prior to the Fab 5. How many freshmen point guards even started for title contending programs prior to the Fab 5? It's an apples to oranges argument. We might as well mention that very few freshmen shooting guards, small forwards, power forwards, and centers won titles as freshmen as well. It still doesn't change the fact that you do everything you can to recruit them. Even our 1996 team relied on Mercer to put us over the top against Syracuse.Why 97?
It’s 5 out of 49 (since Freshmen gained eligibility).
Don’t cherry pick. You’re better than that. LOL!
But haven't they been a lot more common lately? I mean, in the Cal era alone (Memphis and UK), he landed a bunch of them: Rose, Knight, Wall, Fox, Teague, Maxey, Murray, Harrison. All those dudes balled out. I can't really rely on the thought that the ones from that group who didn't win a title were somehow inferior to guys like El Amin, or even guys like Lamont Butler or even Tristen Newton.I certainly wouldn’t pass on someone like that - but a guy like that comes along once every ten years, like an AD or MKG. Outside of a world class generational talent I’d prefer upperclassmen is all I was saying. It’s also really tricky to figure out who those guys are or if they’re going to be a bust.
Wall, knight, and Murray all panicked and shot like shit in their last game. Teague was one of the only freshmen PGs under Cal to play his best in the tournament and I give him mad props for that. Maxey never played in a tournament and Harrison played well. I’m not saying I wouldn’t take them, but it’s also not like your rattling off champion after champion. Can’t I just name ten upperclassmen PGs that have won a championship lately and ask if you would rather have them? I kinda don’t really know what we’re arguing anymore either tbh 😂. I was just saying I’d prefer experienced PGs IN GENERAL, not that I would never take a top 5 star freshmen.But haven't they been a lot more common lately? I mean, in the Cal era alone (Memphis and UK), he landed a bunch of them: Rose, Knight, Wall, Fox, Teague, Maxey, Murray, Harrison. All those dudes balled out. I can't really rely on the thought that the ones from that group who didn't win a title were somehow inferior to guys like El Amin, or even guys like Lamont Butler or even Tristen Newton.
Agreed.Wall, knight, and Murray all panicked and shot like shit in their last game. Teague was one of the only freshmen PGs under Cal to play his best in the tournament and I give him mad props for that. Maxey never played in a tournament and Harrison played well. I’m not saying I wouldn’t take them, but it’s also not like your rattling off champion after champion. Can’t I just name ten upperclassmen PGs that have won a championship lately and ask if you would rather have them? I kinda don’t really know what we’re arguing anymore either tbh 😂. I was just saying I’d prefer experienced PGs IN GENERAL, not that I would never take a top 5 star freshmen.