Ray Davis MIGHT Play in Gator Bowl

[optimus-blue]

I think they ( meaning the colleges and players )are making the stuff up as they go. When you see someone like Sanky running around Washington asking congress to do something you know its really bad . NFL has salary cap and a governing body . College football have unlimited cash in the hands of mega donors , no rules and no governing body who can control it . This is on the system that for years looked the other way on cheating and a bunch of sanctimonious fan bases who feel entitled to win at all costs . Now the pirates are in charge of the bank lol let it burn lol most teams never had a chance anyway .
Its not the best coaches and administrators who will win its who spends most money on NIL .The schools need to cut athletic director and coaches pay take their revenues from alcohol and gambling commercials and make legitimate efforts to satisfy their fanbases . This is all tongue in cheek but in reality college football is professional wrestling fans go for the show but the outcome was decided long before kickoff .

 

[Fox2monk]

Your employer asks you to work an extra shift without compensation and you say “Sure”? I’d say pay me I don’t work for free.

I bet his contract was just through regular season.

Depends on if your salary or not. He’s basically salary, he’s not paid by the game and a bowl is part of the deal. It’s obvious if your team is successful enough.

 

[SkyPrince1]

If there is an actual written contract between players and NIL entities, I'm surprised a copy of one hadn't been leaked to the media.

 

[UKnCincy]

Depends on if your salary or not. He’s basically salary, he’s not paid by the game and a bowl is part of the deal. It’s obvious if your team is successful enough.

He’s not salary.

NIL deals are gig work, with pay tied to completion of a specified set of activities (for example, a set number of public appearances). The student athlete is paid under 1099 and is then also on the hook for all of the taxes (e.g., collectives aren’t responsible for the employer share of FICA).

 

[YaketySax]

Depends on if your salary or not. He’s basically salary, he’s not paid by the game and a bowl is part of the deal. It’s obvious if your team is successful enough.

He's not "basically" anything. He has a contract and if the contract is poorly written it's within bounds for either side to maximize their leverage. And you'd do the same in his shoes just like all of us.

 

[YaketySax]

What kind of fool would negotiate a contract for a player to only play the regular season but not include the bowl game (or playoffs for other teams not named UK)?

That's what I'm wondering. I imagine there's contract ambiguity that wouldn't happen this time next year as everyone gets more knowledgeable.

To be clear, I honestly have no idea if this is the case, but to me it seems plausible this is what's happened. I wish I'd been even more explicit/clear in my OP.

 

[YaketySax]

A bowl game is part of the season. It isn't like someone caught the players by surprise and just told the players they have another game to play. They knew it was a major goal for the entire season and team.

A bowl game is not part of the season. If it was the portal wouldn't open until January. Instead it opens at the end of November.

 

[UKWildcats1987]

A bowl game is not part of the season. If it was the portal wouldn't open until January. Instead it opens at the end of November.

Basically proves they are meaningless exhibitions.

The issue is for a school like UK what is the goal at the start of the season if not a solid bowl?

Realistically its not the sec or playoff and until Stoops can go 10 and 2 we won't see a playoff berth at UK IMO. He came close in 2018 and 2021 but had some stinkers like the loss to UT at home in 2021 that prevented finishing in top 12 rankings.

 

[Fox2monk]

He's not "basically" anything. He has a contract and if the contract is poorly written it's within bounds for either side to maximize their leverage. And you'd do the same in his shoes just like all of us.

He has no contract

 

[Fox2monk]

He’s not salary.

NIL deals are gig work, with pay tied to completion of a specified set of activities (for example, a set number of public appearances). The student athlete is paid under 1099 and is then also on the hook for all of the taxes (e.g., collectives aren’t responsible for the employer share of FICA).

Good he should then play in the bowl, he got his money for the set number of gigs. Finish out the season.

 

[UKnCincy]

Good he should then play in the bowl, he got his money for the set number of gigs. Finish out the season.

He’s honored his end of the bargain, otherwise he’d be sued for breach of contract.

 

[Fox2monk]

He’s honored his end of the bargain, otherwise he’d be sued for breach of contract.

No he wouldn’t, there is no contract. It’s basically just pay for play right now. The people paying would have no standing legally. They wouldn’t even want to do it if they could because it would scare off potential recruits.

 

[UKnCincy]

No he wouldn’t, there is no contract. It’s basically just pay for play right now. The people paying would have no standing legally. They wouldn’t even want to do it if they could because it would scare off potential recruits.

There are contracts, and every one of those contracts are on file with the Athletics Compliance Office.

 

[UKBlueBlood]

There is no contract… at least not one the university is involved with. I suppose Joe Blow Auto Dealer could offer an NIL deal with language requiring participation through bowl games, and the player can choose whether or not they will accept such a deal. But the university is a separate party in the matter (at least they’re SUPPOSED to be, nod nod, wink wink).

So as I said, expectation to play in all of the games, including a bowl game, is implied. At least it should be, in my view. If it isn’t, then let’s be open about it up front. If universities don’t expect players to bother to play in an “extra” bowl game, then just say so. If players feel no sense of obligation to play in their team’s bowl game despite ALL of the resources, amenities, support, coaching, and now compensation provided, then say so. Go ahead and define at what point in the season it is pointless for players to “take the risk” of playing so everyone knows exactly what the deal is. Is it after 2 losses? No chance for a playoff berth then. What if players eventually reach a point that they really don’t even care about playoff opportunities for their schools? What if all they care about is determining when they think they’ve shown enough to get drafted and they shut it down? Heck, if a team happens to start out 0-2, then we can just shut down any players with professional aspirations at that point and just focus on playing backups the rest of season to develop experience for next year.

I really don’t care. Just define expectations and commitments, and then stick to them. But fans are ultimately the target audience for NIL deals in order for the entity offering the deal to capture their consumer dollars. If fans become more and more disenchanted by a system that sees players for their favorite teams skipping bowl games and maybe even regular season game (that’s probably coming), then these NIL deals will start to dry up and the players will be squealing about where all their opportunities for 6 and 7 figure paydays on top of their FREE college education went.

 

[UKBlueBlood]

There is no contract… at least not one the university is involved with. I suppose Joe Blow Auto Dealer could offer an NIL deal with language requiring participation through bowl games, and the player can choose whether or not they will accept such a deal. But the university is a separate party in the matter (at least they’re SUPPOSED to be, nod nod, wink wink).

So as I said, expectation to play in all of the games, including a bowl game, is implied. At least it should be, in my view. If it isn’t, then let’s be open about it up front. If universities don’t expect players to bother to play in an “extra” bowl game, then just say so. If players feel no sense of obligation to play in their team’s bowl game despite ALL of the resources, amenities, support, coaching, and now compensation provided, then say so. Go ahead and define at what point in the season it is pointless for players to “take the risk” of playing so everyone knows exactly what the deal is. Is it after 2 losses? No chance for a playoff berth then. What if players eventually reach a point that they really don’t even care about playoff opportunities for their schools? What if all they care about is determining when they think they’ve shown enough to get drafted and they shut it down? Heck, if a team happens to start out 0-2, then we can just shut down any players with professional aspirations at that point and just focus on playing backups the rest of season to develop experience for next year.

I really don’t care. Just define expectations and commitments, and then stick to them. But fans are ultimately the target audience for NIL deals in order for the entity offering the deal to capture their consumer dollars. If fans become more and more disenchanted by a system that sees players for their favorite teams skipping bowl games and maybe even regular season game (that’s probably coming), then these NIL deals will start to dry up and the players will be squealing about where all their opportunities for 6 and 7 figure paydays on top of their FREE college education went.

 

[UKBlueBlood]

There is no contract… at least not one the university is involved with. I suppose Joe Blow Auto Dealer could offer an NIL deal with language requiring participation through bowl games, and the player can choose whether or not they will accept such a deal. But the university is a separate party in the matter (at least they’re SUPPOSED to be, nod nod, wink wink).

So as I said, expectation to play in all of the games, including a bowl game, is implied. At least it should be, in my view. If it isn’t, then let’s be open about it up front. If universities don’t expect players to bother to play in an “extra” bowl game, then just say so. If players feel no sense of obligation to play in their team’s bowl game despite ALL of the resources, amenities, support, coaching, and now compensation provided, then say so. Go ahead and define at what point in the season it is pointless for players to “take the risk” of playing so everyone knows exactly what the deal is. Is it after 2 losses? No chance for a playoff berth then. What if players eventually reach a point that they really don’t even care about playoff opportunities for their schools? What if all they care about is determining when they think they’ve shown enough to get drafted and they shut it down? Heck, if a team happens to start out 0-2, then we can just shut down any players with professional aspirations at that point and just focus on playing backups the rest of season to develop experience for next year.

I really don’t care. Just define expectations and commitments, and then stick to them. But fans are ultimately the target audience for NIL deals in order for the entity offering the deal to capture their consumer dollars. If fans become more and more disenchanted by a system that sees players for their favorite teams skipping bowl games and maybe even regular season game (that’s probably coming), then these NIL deals will start to dry up and the players will be squealing about where all their opportunities for 6 and 7 figure paydays on top of their FREE college education went.

 

[UKnCincy]

There is no contract… at least not one the university is involved with. I suppose Joe Blow Auto Dealer could offer an NIL deal with language requiring participation through bowl games, and the player can choose whether or not they will accept such a deal. But the university is a separate party in the matter (at least they’re SUPPOSED to be, nod nod, wink wink).

So as I said, expectation to play in all of the games, including a bowl game, is implied. At least it should be, in my view. If it isn’t, then let’s be open about it up front. If universities don’t expect players to bother to play in an “extra” bowl game, then just say so. If players feel no sense of obligation to play in their team’s bowl game despite ALL of the resources, amenities, support, coaching, and now compensation provided, then say so. Go ahead and define at what point in the season it is pointless for players to “take the risk” of playing so everyone knows exactly what the deal is. Is it after 2 losses? No chance for a playoff berth then. What if players eventually reach a point that they really don’t even care about playoff opportunities for their schools? What if all they care about is determining when they think they’ve shown enough to get drafted and they shut it down? Heck, if a team happens to start out 0-2, then we can just shut down any players with professional aspirations at that point and just focus on playing backups the rest of season to develop experience for next year.

I really don’t care. Just define expectations and commitments, and then stick to them. But fans are ultimately the target audience for NIL deals in order for the entity offering the deal to capture their consumer dollars. If fans become more and more disenchanted by a system that sees players for their favorite teams skipping bowl games and maybe even regular season game (that’s probably coming), then these NIL deals will start to dry up and the players will be squealing about where all their opportunities for 6 and 7 figure paydays on top of their FREE college education went.

All NIL deals are laid out in contracts.

Those contracts must then be submitted to UK for review before they are finalized to ensure they comply with the University’s NIL policy and that they do not conflict with any of the Athletics Department’s existing contracts (e.g., UK’s deal with Nike).

There is a contract that exists for every NIL deal that is linked to a UK athlete.

 

[UKBlueBlood]

All NIL deals are laid out in contracts.

Those contracts must then be submitted to UK for review before they are finalized to ensure they comply with the University’s NIL policy and that they do not conflict with any of the Athletics Department’s existing contracts (e.g., UK’s deal with Nike).

There is a contract that exists for every NIL deal that is linked to a UK athlete.

Ok, I didn't properly state my point. Yes, I'm sure there are contracts pertaining to NIL deals. But there is no contract between a player and the university that addresses expectations for participation.

 

[YaketySax]

He has no contract

so what are the terms of his pay, his pay schedule, etc? Hard to believe there’s no contracts being signed. Like impossible to believe.

 

[Fox2monk]

so what are the terms of his pay, his pay schedule, etc? Hard to believe there’s no contracts being signed. Like impossible to believe.

That’s what the whole NIL issue is about, why do you think Flowers from UofL isn’t in trouble. He took all his NIL and jetted during the summer to go play in Australia. It’s widely known too. There is no guarantee that after the player gets to campus that they even play after being paid.

 

[Fox2monk]

All NIL deals are laid out in contracts.

Those contracts must then be submitted to UK for review before they are finalized to ensure they comply with the University’s NIL policy and that they do not conflict with any of the Athletics Department’s existing contracts (e.g., UK’s deal with Nike).

There is a contract that exists for every NIL deal that is linked to a UK athlete.

I don’t see how that’s possible as it would be a violation in itself. The university isn’t supposed to have anything to do with NIL as far as I know and every state is different too. That’s a big issue with it right now. Not to mention that it could be a violation of state law, if a deal the athlete could get and UK said no because of XYZ reason.

 

[Fox2monk]

There are contracts, and every one of those contracts are on file with the Athletics Compliance Office.

I would love to see one then. Honestly. Under a FOIA request is should be possible.

 

[JHB4UK]

I would love to see one then. Honestly. Under a FOIA request is should be possible.

No, it isn't possible. because they are contracts between individual college players and independent businesses/individuals/collectives. Ain't no government involved that has to respond to FOIR.

 

[UKnCincy]

I would love to see one then. Honestly. Under a FOIA request is should be possible.

It’s not possible.

NIL agreements are not subject to open records requests per Kentucky’s NIL law. The agreements contain information of a personal nature, and disclosure would be an unwarranted invasion of personal privacy.

 

[YaketySax]

I would love to see one then. Honestly. Under a FOIA request is should be possible.

I would love to see one too. I been looking for the market rate for different positions for a year.

 

[gobigblue812]

Your employer asks you to work an extra shift without compensation and you say “Sure”? I’d say pay me I don’t work for free.

I bet his contract was just through regular season.

Clearly, you've never worked in a salary position.

 

[UKnCincy]

Clearly, you've never worked in a salary position.

If you want him to behave like a salaried employee, then pay him a salary. Right now, he isn’t paid a salary.

If someone’s paid like an independent contractor, then folks shouldn’t be surprised when they behave like an independent contractor.

 

[YaketySax]

Clearly, you've never worked in a salary position.

lol. I’ve been in one for the last 17 years. He’s not salary because he’s got a fixed term and no benefits more or less. He’s like a freelance contractor if any comparison fits.

If the terms of his agreement is 1 Dec he requires a new deal to play in bowl unless he does it out of the kindness of his heart.

 

[The-Hack]

There is no guarantee that after the player gets to campus that they even play after being paid.

If he received significant money and then took off, the NIL sponsor learned an important lesson in contracting: make periodic payments dependent on availability.

The lack of specific knowledge of the details of these contracts fuels the arguments, above.

The most I know about any of them is Leary’s deal, and I know very little about his. I have read on these pages that he is paid monthly. Therefore, I suspect that these deals are (1) in writing, and (2) specify some level of availability and participation by the athlete, and I would hope they address academic qualification, moral turpitude issues, etc.

Were I in a position to negotiate on behalf of the sponsor, I would suggest addressing the above, and the issue of post-season and playoff appearances.

The sponsor would then have a decision on how “hard-core,” they would negotiate regarding each issue. If called upon to advise a sponsor, I would suggest starting pretty hardcore, spreading monthly payments out over a fiscal year, meaning that exactly half of payments for the 2023 season would actually accrue after the Bowl/Playoff period, until June 30th the following year.

I would want automatic termination language for any cause eliminating the player’s eligibility, excluding injury [and if my client wanted to be real hard core, that could be included]. And I would suggest to a client/sponsor language requiring availability, eligibility and participation in any post-season play. Failure to be available, eligible and to actually participate would automatically terminate the sponsor’s continuing obligation to pay the monthly stipend.

If you want to see an actual NIL contract, follow the news, closely. Eventually, there will be some litigation on a state court level, that will reveal many details.

Apparently, to date, the parties involved have mostly “worked things out,” absent litigation, when issues have arisen. And that doesn’t surprise me. Most financial sponsors likely view their participation as primarily motivated by a charitable intent to benefit their chosen University team(s). I suspect these types of sponsors have been pretty easy-going both on negotiating and enforcement of terms.

And let’s be real: some few big-money NIL sponsors have likely been long-term financial backers of collegiate athletes, when such backing was done without any paperwork, contracts or tax-withholding considerations. This class of NIL sponsor would likely avoid litigation, where possible, to avoid issues that might pop up in expansive “discovery” processes that some judges would gladly allow.

 

[KevStoner98]

That would be great if it happens.

It's crazy the NIL money he already received wasn't enough apparently though.

It’s crazy that you buy message board speculation and accept
it as fact. Who is saying he’s in negotiations for extra NIL besides a message board poster?

 

[The-Hack]

It’s crazy that you buy message board speculation and accept
it as fact. Who is saying he’s in negotiations for extra NIL besides a message board poster?

Great point.

It is just as likely Davis viewed our bowl prospects the way we viewed them: a game likely against a Duke or North Carolina in a cold-weather climate, allowing announcers to talk about basketball.

When a Florida venue was announced against a more traditional football power, that likely held some sway.

We will never likely know for certain, but his reconsideration might also be related to someone re-reading the fine print of any NIL contract he has, and finding that his monthly stipend terminated upon voluntary unavailability.

 

[Fox2monk]

If he received significant money and then took off, the NIL sponsor learned an important lesson in contracting: make periodic payments dependent on availability.

The lack of specific knowledge of the details of these contracts fuels the arguments, above.

The most I know about any of them is Leary’s deal, and I know very little about his. I have read on these pages that he is paid monthly. Therefore, I suspect that these deals are (1) in writing, and (2) specify some level of availability and participation by the athlete, and I would hope they address academic qualification, moral turpitude issues, etc.

Were I in a position to negotiate on behalf of the sponsor, I would suggest addressing the above, and the issue of post-season and playoff appearances.

The sponsor would then have a decision on how “hard-core,” they would negotiate regarding each issue. If called upon to advise a sponsor, I would suggest starting pretty hardcore, spreading monthly payments out over a fiscal year, meaning that exactly half of payments for the 2023 season would actually accrue after the Bowl/Playoff period, until June 30th the following year.

I would want automatic termination language for any cause eliminating the player’s eligibility, excluding injury [and if my client wanted to be real hard core, that could be included]. And I would suggest to a client/sponsor language requiring availability, eligibility and participation in any post-season play. Failure to be available, eligible and to actually participate would automatically terminate the sponsor’s continuing obligation to pay the monthly stipend.

If you want to see an actual NIL contract, follow the news, closely. Eventually, there will be some litigation on a state court level, that will reveal many details.

Apparently, to date, the parties involved have mostly “worked things out,” absent litigation, when issues have arisen. And that doesn’t surprise me. Most financial sponsors likely view their participation as primarily motivated by a charitable intent to benefit their chosen University team(s). I suspect these types of sponsors have been pretty easy-going both on negotiating and enforcement of terms.

And let’s be real: some few big-money NIL sponsors have likely been long-term financial backers of collegiate athletes, when such backing was done without any paperwork, contracts or tax-withholding considerations. This class of NIL sponsor would likely avoid litigation, where possible, to avoid issues that might pop up in expansive “discovery” processes that some judges would gladly allow.

I would agree with that as it sounds pretty reasonable but I do know for a fact Flowers took a large portion, if not all of his NIL before dipping on UofL.

 

[The-Hack]

I do know for a fact Flowers took a large portion of not all of his NIL before dipping on UofL.

Lol.

Well, yet another painful experience for our fine-feathered friends!!

NIL contracts are probably going to become a tad bit more standardized moving forward, with language protecting the sponsors.

“Flowers” is a name completely unknown to me, so I assume he was a basketball recruit.

 

[Fox2monk]

Lol.

Well, yet another painful experience for our fine-feathered friends!!

NIL contracts are probably going to become a tad bit more standardized moving forward, with language protecting the sponsors.

“Flowers” is a name completely unknown to me, so I assume he was a basketball recruit.

Yes he was. Number 26 player on Rivals and a five star on a couple other sites. They apparently ponied up quite a bit to snag him and then he dipped on the summer after only a handful of practices.

 

[The-Hack]

They apparently ponied up quite a bit to snag him and then he dipped on the summer after only a handful of practices.

Well, pity those Redbirds, wasting money!!

Yeah, well if nothing kept the player from bolting after receipt of the money, you really can’t blame the player!

This might be a sign of sponsors’ weak and foolish transitioning from the old cash-money deliveries in McDonald’s bags and other containers, to the New World of NIL!

Maybe someone at U of L (or at their Sponsor) just assumed the athlete was to be paid upfront with no accountability, because “it’s always been that way.”

 

[Johnfarrel]

Depends on if your salary or not. He’s basically salary, he’s not paid by the game and a bowl is part of the deal. It’s obvious if your team is successful enough.

Right. l worked many hours to get a job done without extra pay because I was on salary and others were depending on me to complete my part of the project.

 

[THE_OAK]

I don't see Ray playing and I hope that I'm wrong but it kind of feels like this is being put out there to get us to buy tickets to the bowl game.

 

[KevStoner98]

Good he should then play in the bowl, he got his money for the set number of gigs. Finish out the season.

NIL deals are guaranteed. There are no set number of games and it isn’t performance based. LOL at making up more BS to back up the BS message board nonsense that he’s asking for more NIL.

 

[STL_Cat]

I’m old enough to remember when dudes played for a scholarship.

 

[KevStoner98]

I’m old enough to remember when dudes played for a scholarship.

So howmuch is Ray Davis asking for?