Question for Towles supporters. Not sarcastic at all.

[BlueRaider22]

Qwesley, Why are there far more starting Senior QBs vs Freshmen QBs? Or any position for that matter? Is it because seniors have more "innate ability" than freshmen?

I agree that there are abilities and qualities that you can't necessarily measure that can make you a better player.... This is true for any position in any sport. However, performing inconsistently with an inconsistent supporting cast hardly yields a situation where you can determine his innate qualities.

 

[gobigblue812]

Did you ever hear of a guy named Mark Higgs?

Did you ever READ a post and comprehend it? I said MOST. Thanks for making my point.

 

[UPSCat4080]

Thanks ulismyman. I most certainly didn't mean that at all. If Mr. Personality aka UPSCat knew how to read he would have seen that I said I wanted PT to succeed but he had to be that jerk that I specifically said I wasn't trying to address in my post. Then calls me pathetic ? I hate when people use the term moron but he wears that moniker well.

Wasn't calling you pathetic by any means, but rather the idea that some should "not support" Patrick. When you call out Patrick "supporters" then that means there are also non-supporters.

This is the type of fan that needs to stay off of discussion boards. If everyone just blindly agrees that all of our players are great and no one, including coaches ,makes mistakes, there is nothing to discuss.

As for you. No where did I say blindly agree. What I did sya is that we need to support the players and coaches in their decisions. If you DO NOT SUPPORT a player in a Kentucky uniform then you don't need to be around. These are kids. Do you have to agree with everything? No. Can you criticize? Yes. Should you ever quit supporting a KID in a KENTUCKY uniform? HELL NO.

 

[Levibooty]

Did you ever READ a post and comprehend it? I said MOST. Thanks for making my point.

My point is nobody has ever seen Barker play a down of college ball. Nobody can say whether he is a gamer or not.

 

[CCSteamRoller]

1st off, Towles is accurate. You can see that he possesses the ability to make some very beautiful throws.
2nd, Towles is inconsistent. As we all can see he doesn't always throw a good pass.

So, how do you improve on inconsistency? By practicing and playing, of course. With this being the start of Towles second yr of playing, he hasn't played a ton yet. Now, imagine that he's trying to improve his consistency surrounded by a supporting cast that is trying to do the same thing?

Raider, I have a lot of respect for your opinion. If you say Towles is accurate but inconsistent, then I will listen to you. Some of the fault lies with the receivers running the wrong routes or sloppy routes. How though, do you account for the other bad throws? Happy feet? Poor mechanics? Something else?

 

[crestcat]

If the qb competition lasted as long as we were led to believe, there is not a great deal of separation between our qbs. Therefore, I see no reason for Towles to get all of the snaps.

^Follow football much, crestcat? Every yr there are coaches who hype a QB competition while holding "closed" practices....then, in the end most go with the veteran guy. If you "led to believe" something then consider this an education. Any misleading probably came from media and fans who really didn't know either.

Well it certainly is enlightening to get info straight from a jock sniffers mouth. You are telling me that PT was starting qb from day one practice, he was never pressed and stood head and shoulders above all comers? There is no qb on our roster that is even close to PT in ability and suffer from the same inadequacies we see on a weekly basis?

 

[BlueRaider22]

Well it certainly is enlightening to get info straight from a jock sniffers mouth. You are telling me that PT was starting qb from day one practice, he was never pressed and stood head and shoulders above all comers? There is no qb on our roster that is even close to PT in ability and suffer from the same inadequacies we see on a weekly basis?

No, I'm saying that coaches talk. They push. They prod their players to do their best. If they say that there is an open competition then it may or may not be true. I don't have the privilege of going to every practice so when it comes to things like this I have to go with past experience. Which tells us that the veteran will start in the vast majority of cases.

Now, here we sit again. We had "an open competition" and Towles has been given the start......by both Dawson and previously Brown. Two different OCs have chosen to start Towles.

 

[TBCat]

My point is nobody has ever seen Barker play a down of college ball. Nobody can say whether he is a gamer or not.

And if neither he nor Reece ever get a snap then we will never know. What we do know is that we are struggling horribly now. I'm willing to take a chance on an unproven QB when the other option is a QB that has for 4 years proven that he's not getting it done. Maybe Barker will be terrible but right now we need to at least see that for ourselves.

 

[BlueRaider22]

Raider, I have a lot of respect for your opinion. If you say Towles is accurate but inconsistent, then I will listen to you. Some of the fault lies with the receivers running the wrong routes or sloppy routes. How though, do you account for the other bad throws? Happy feet? Poor mechanics? Something else?

Can't say it's any one thing for certain.....more of a combination of everything. It's no shock that game environments are different from practice situations. In practices it's easier for a QB to get in the proper throwing position, etc. In games, QBs often have to throw off their back foot, with someone in their face, and while on the move.

I think it's a combination of everything: inconsistent o-line performance, inconsistent WR hands and routes, in consistent RBs routes and pass protection, inconsistent QB performance, and OC inconsistent play calling.

Think of it this way. Let's say you are trying to set dominos on a table for a chain reaction fall. It's not the world's most difficult task. But let's say that the table is balancing on 1 central leg and not 4......your chair is Swiss ball.....next to an open window on a breezy day......and you're still learning how to set up dominos. All the sudden you aren't as successful. Then the general public looks at you.....not seeing the window, table, ball, etc.....all they blame is you for not getting it done whether it is or is not your fault.

 

[CCSteamRoller]

Thanks for the explanation Raider. What's your opinion on the level of improvement we can realistically expect from the offense between now and the end of the year?

 

[fuzz77]

He makes some beautiful throws, mainly long passes, that are NFL caliber. He can also run a lot better than you would think looking at him.

But . . . he can miss a lot as well, and his last nine games have not resulted in really good QB stats, and we have a highly touted QB on the bench, that in view of all the above, I believe deserves a chance to see what he can do in a game situation.

Wasn't Pat a "highly touted QB"?

After seeing the game live and then re-watching, what I saw were a lot of receivers who struggled to get open to add to an offensive line that struggled to protect and struggled to open holes.
The difference in the game was Florida's receivers caught the ball when it was near them and our's only needed to make the catches that they would make 90% of the time. Pat didn't play great, he missed several throws... but with just a little help he played good enough for UK to win.

 

[fuzz77]

And if neither he nor Reece ever get a snap then we will never know. What we do know is that we are struggling horribly now. I'm willing to take a chance on an unproven QB when the other option is a QB that has for 4 years proven that he's not getting it done. Maybe Barker will be terrible but right now we need to at least see that for ourselves.

Is your job or any fan's job on the line if the next guy doesn't work out?

 

[zannmann]

I think one of the things that messed up Towles was that QB camp he went to. Every since then he has a bad habit of happy feet from the time he receives the snap until he throws the ball. Feet not set causes inaccurate passes.

 

[Blueaz]

How was Barker rated so high? If he can't get some PT over PT (at this point), he should be looking to transfer.

 

[yoshukai]

1st off, Towles is accurate. You can see that he possesses the ability to make some very beautiful throws.
2nd, Towles is inconsistent. As we all can see he doesn't always throw a good pass.

So, how do you improve on inconsistency? By practicing and playing, of course. With this being the start of Towles second yr of playing, he hasn't played a ton yet. Now, imagine that he's trying to improve his consistency surrounded by a supporting cast that is trying to do the same thing?
-the WRs have been inconsistent on where they're supposed to be.
-the o-line (specifically the RT >> LT) has been inconsistent in blocking
-the RBs have been inconsistent with hitting holes and pass pro
-Dawson is new and although his offense is similar to Brown's there is some differences in the plays and play calling.

When you see a young QB excelling, they are usually doing so with a veteran supporting cast. An example of his is Kyle Bolin from last yrs UK/UL game. He had a veteran o-line and several really good WRs......one a sure-fire 1st rd draft pick.

3rd, it is likely that Barker isn't the answer. With all I said above, why would a freshman be the answer? Most of the time a freshman who has never played before is not the best choice between a junior with a yr of starting experience. Most of the time it's worse b/c you are likely adding more inexperience and more inconsistency to the soup.

4th, what did you expect? The vast majority of us thought UK would be a 5-7 win team this yr.....which means we were going to be improved from last yr but we were going to lose some games. Which means that at times we'd play well and at times we wouldn't. And right now, we are right where most of us thought we'd be. We're 2-1.....folks in the media are talking about how improved we are.....they are predicting bowl games for us....they are praising Stoops, etc. We likely are going to be favored against Vandy, EKU, and Charlotte.....and we have 6 more home games where anything can happen.

So, if you were expecting more...why? We're your expectations unreasonable? Is your knowledge of football lacking?

So Towles is inconsistently accurate ? Now that's funny ! And how dare us expect to see improvement from a quarterback that has started 15 games .

 

[instaGATOR]

A little balance is needed I'm thinking.
Take a look at Towles stats from last year's UK/UF game.

 

[Katwatcher]

Almost every thread somehow ends up with some type of debate about PT. They range from total PT supporters to total PT haters. I fall in he middle because I want him to succeed but I'm having a hard time seeing any progress from him whatsoever. I keep seeing comments about him 'bouncing back'. Not being sarcastic but what is he 'bouncing back' to ? I think he had a really good game last year against Miss St and I believe he may have had a good game at Florida ? I really don't want this thread to be a fight back and forth between supporters and non supporters but he's been playing this game a long time so why do you think he will be able to become an accurate passer and be able to lead this team ?

When Towles or who ever is quarterbacking has the time to find his receivers, he will be ok. It would have also helped if the running game had been better. Our line just got worked over by a good Florida defense.

The bottom line is we are going to have to have stronger line play for us to be very successful.

In reality Towels does not have that much experience. We are still very young at the QB position. I think when the line play gets better you will see a sharper Towels.

The coaches sees these players everyday and know who is best for their position and we have to trust their decisions.

 

[CHAMPCAT11]

Wasn't calling you pathetic by any means, but rather the idea that some should "not support" Patrick. When you call out Patrick "supporters" then that means there are also non-supporters.

If I misunderstood your post I apologize to you. I don't try to be rude on this board but I thought you were jumping me for asking a fair question. Just to make it clear... I support PT and hope he becomes a superstar. I also worry that he won't get the job done as do a huge amount of UK fans. I definitely respect the hell out of all of these guys (and coaches) because I've been a UK fan my entire life and I support UK athletics as a fan that has supported with $$$ too. Also, they're kids, I get that. But this Towles issue is the elephant in the room and I just wanted a fair discussion. I appreciate your reply and hopefully we have a great season.

 

[Levibooty]

I agree we need better performance from our OL but the fact remains when Towles has time he is still not accurate. He has never been accurate with any consistency.

 

[UKBrassowTipIN]

Well I personally think he's the best option because no one knows what barker can do..so why do they think that automatically means better? And inevitably you'll get the "well how will we know unless we try"...he got beat out for a reason, is the first answer, and the 2nd is if you put him in and he blows too then you've lost both of them.

As far as leading the team...are you proposing the guy who uses an air gun on campus and gets into bar fights...sounds like a real mature leader.

 

[BlueRaider22]

So Towles is inconsistently accurate ? Now that's funny ! And how dare us expect to see improvement from a quarterback that has started 15 games .

Whoah?! Way to go overboard.

The following I pulled just from a Google search so it's not perfect but it should help prove the point.

This illustration isn't perfect but it kinda shows you the difference between accuracy and consistency (precision). Towles hits the bullseye part of the time, he barely misses the perfect pass part of the time, and occasionally he has one that it well off the mark. That's high accuracy but low precision/consistency.

And it is reasonable to expect improvement from a QB who's started 15 games, however how much were you expecting? If you were expecting it to rain Manning style all-over the field then of course you're upset. If you take into account that there are tons of sophs running poor routes and dropping balls.......when you take into account a new (but similar) OC.....when you take into account the o-line is still a work in progress.....when you take into account inconsistent RB pass protection......and a QB who is inconsistent.....then you lower your expectations.

It's going to be a roller-coaster year. There are going to be times when we really look good on offense and at times when it's just gonna be ugly. Playing experience, practice, and time are the keys to resolving inconsistency. Think of when we had Hartline as QB all those yrs. As a freshman.....bad. Sophomore......bad. Junior.....so-so. Senior.....whoah, didn't expect decent play.

History tells us that Towles will improve over the next yr or two. Just as guys like Baker won't drop surefire passes (which are deflected for INT's or in the endzone) like he did against Florida. The o-line will better at opening holes for the running game or in pass protection.

It's just really hard to improve rapidly when everyone else around you is trying to do the same thing.

 

[yoshukai]

Whoah?! Way to go overboard.

The following I pulled just from a Google search so it's not perfect but it should help prove the point.

This illustration isn't perfect but it kinda shows you the difference between accuracy and consistency (precision). Towles hits the bullseye part of the time, he barely misses the perfect pass part of the time, and occasionally he has one that it well off the mark. That's high accuracy but low precision/consistency.

And it is reasonable to expect improvement from a QB who's started 15 games, however how much were you expecting? If you were expecting it to rain Manning style all-over the field then of course you're upset. If you take into account that there are tons of sophs running poor routes and dropping balls.......when you take into account a new (but similar) OC.....when you take into account the o-line is still a work in progress.....when you take into account inconsistent RB pass protection......and a QB who is inconsistent.....then you lower your expectations.

It's going to be a roller-coaster year. There are going to be times when we really look good on offense and at times when it's just gonna be ugly. Playing experience, practice, and time are the keys to resolving inconsistency. Think of when we had Hartline as QB all those yrs. As a freshman.....bad. Sophomore......bad. Junior.....so-so. Senior.....whoah, didn't expect decent play.

History tells us that Towles will improve over the next yr or two. Just as guys like Baker won't drop surefire passes (which are deflected for INT's or in the endzone) like he did against Florida. The o-line will better at opening holes for the running game or in pass protection.

It's just really hard to improve rapidly when everyone else around you is trying to do the same thing.

At this point I'm just hoping to see ANY sign of improvement. Look , I wish the kid could be an all American but when the offense needs a spark I don't see any reason not to give the backup a shot . Doesn't mean you bench the starter the next game , just means you're using all your resources to win the game .

 

[shutzhund]

He was recruited as a passer and it turns out he is too flawed to be depended upon as a consistent passer. Evidently neither are any of the others.

The defenses are going to key on the run and dare us to throw. That puts the spotlight squarely on inaccurate passers plagued with slow decisions. We seem to have a covey of them.

We're on the razors edge of winning six games. There's no margin. The only separation, at qb, is experience.

With that said it's about time to quit blaming the ol, receivers, and coaches. Three different coordinators and the results are the same. Maybe we should junk that "air raid" nonsense and recruit more athletic qbs. We're not in the business of feeding the pros with pocket passers.

 

[Xception]

So if he throws in the vicinity of a receiver but it's still uncatchable then that is an accurate pass that lacks precision . He'd be a deadly grenade thrower .

 

[BlueRaider22]

Here's a scary thought....what if he is the best chance for us to win this yr? As strange as this sounds I'm not a Towles supporter as much as I am a supporter of the knowledge presented to me....though fans probably don't see it that way.

Here's what we know:
-Towles has every physical tool you could want
-Towles is inconsistent but at times he's great
-Towles isn't the only one to blame.
-2 different OCs have chosen to play Towles and keep Barker on the bench and they continue to do so
-QBs get the blame from the general public whether it is their fault or not.
-playing time is the only way to reduce inconsistency

There are more things we know or don't know. JRs recent article did pretty well with this.

 

[BlueRaider22]

So if he throws in the vicinity of a receiver but it's still uncatchable then that is an accurate pass that lacks precision . He'd be a deadly grenade thrower .

It depends. Was it a good route? For example if a WR is told to run a 5 yd out pattern but runs a 3 yd pattern. A perfectly accurate and timed pass will appear behind and high of the WR. If the WR runs a 7 yd pattern a perfect ball will land far out in front of the WRs feet.

 

[Uptown Catfan]

I think beyond Towles mechanical issues, is a lack of confidence in himself to make the play / get the job done on any sort of regular basis. Given that he has not succeeded on a regular basis, there can't be anyway for him to feel otherwise. I'm not arbitrarily criticizing him but, you can see it in his expression / body language after he doesn't make the throw. He's not pissed as if "how could that have happened?" - it's more as if that's what he expected to happen.

Confidence (or lack there of) is contagious, particularly in team sports. I honestly think PT is on the verge of losing the confidence of his teammates - if he hasn't already.

 

[brianpoe]

I think beyond Towles mechanical issues, is a lack of confidence in himself to make the play / get the job done on any sort of regular basis. Given that he has not succeeded on a regular basis, there can't be anyway for him to feel otherwise. I'm not arbitrarily criticizing him but, you can see it in his expression / body language after he doesn't make the throw. He's not pissed as if "how could that have happened?" - it's more as if that's what he expected to happen.

Confidence (or lack there of) is contagious, particularly in team sports. I honestly think PT is on the verge of losing the confidence of his teammates - if he hasn't already.

Here we go again...knowing what a kid is feeling all the way from the television screen...

AND what the entire locker room thinks too!

 

[shutzhund]

It depends. Was it a good route? For example if a WR is told to run a 5 yd out pattern but runs a 3 yd pattern. A perfectly accurate and timed pass will appear behind and high of the WR. If the WR runs a 7 yd pattern a perfect ball will land far out in front of the WRs feet.

You tell me. Is Towles throwing to a spot and ignoring the receiver? Have the receivers and Towles reached that level of perfection? No latitude for adjustment in an imprecise route?

Then what's the need for protection, much beyond 2 sec, on most short or intermediate routes? That would give greater variation in our run and pass options.

 

[bigblueinsanity]

Wasn't Pat a "highly touted QB"?

After seeing the game live and then re-watching, what I saw were a lot of receivers who struggled to get open to add to an offensive line that struggled to protect and struggled to open holes.
The difference in the game was Florida's receivers caught the ball when it was near them and our's only needed to make the catches that they would make 90% of the time. Pat didn't play great, he missed several throws... but with just a little help he played good enough for UK to win.

The WR's were open all night. Even Dorian Baker, who I assumed wed have to stay away from due to UF's talented CB.

With help he played good enough to win? He completed 8 passes. 8. Thats not good enough to win. Period.

 

[Uptown Catfan]

Here we go again...knowing what a kid is feeling all the way from the television screen...

AND what the entire locker room thinks too!

Didn't claim to "know" anything - made a supposition that PT is low on self confidence based upon his achievement level - which is an entirely rational thought. Successful athletes during time of stress are able to draw upon previous situations (usually multiple ones) where they have succeeded and visualize succeeding again. I'm saying PT doesn't have that at the collegiate level. BTW, There is quite a different look to dejection than there is to disbelief - with or without HD.

 

[brianpoe]

Didn't claim to "know" anything - made a supposition that PT is low on self confidence based upon his achievement level - which is an entirely rational thought. Successful athletes during time of stress are able to draw upon previous situations (usually multiple ones) where they have succeeded and visualize succeeding again. I'm saying PT doesn't have that at the collegiate level. BTW, There is quite a different look to dejection than there is to disbelief - with or without HD.

I understand what you are saying, yet in another thread we have a poster saying the exact opposite, PT's issue is that he feels is untouchable.

If you can see that much stress and a lack of confidence from a kid at your distance, then surely our HC and OC see it up close, yes? Why would they keep that kid in the game?

Trying to see confidence in a football player under that helmet is not as easy as watching a close up of kid on the free throw line.

I wasn't very confident in that pass protection, I 'm sure that has something to do with it, as well as the fact the kid has never been a Ken Anderson high percentage type QB.

 

[ctroberts1024]

A career 56% completion rate isn't accurate for any offense, much less one predicated on being accurate and consistent.

 

[Uptown Catfan]

I understand what you are saying, yet in another thread we have a poster saying the exact opposite, PT's issue is that he feels is untouchable.

If you can see that much stress and a lack of confidence from a kid at your distance, then surely our HC and OC see it up close, yes? Why would they keep that kid in the game?

Trying to see confidence in a football player under that helmet is not as easy as watching a close up of kid on the free throw line.

I wasn't very confident in that pass protection, I 'm sure that has something to do with it, as well as the fact the kid has never been a Ken Anderson high percentage type QB.

I can only assume that they do because they feel that PT is the best option. Listening to Stoops of late, it seems that the coaching staff's confidence in him is declining.

Actually I would disagree about the football - basketball comparison. If you watched the replay of the game, there are tons of tight shots of Towles' face and his reactions to what had just occurred - plenty close enough to see the look of dejection on his face to failing to make the play.

 

[Smashcat]

So if he throws in the vicinity of a receiver but it's still uncatchable then that is an accurate pass that lacks precision . He'd be a deadly grenade thrower .

 

[brianpoe]

I can only assume that they do because they feel that PT is the best option. Listening to Stoops of late, it seems that the coaching staff's confidence in him is declining.

Actually I would disagree about the football - basketball comparison. If you watched the replay of the game, there are tons of tight shots of Towles' face and his reactions to what had just occurred - plenty close enough to see the look of dejection on his face to failing to make the play.

To be fair, if they showed his face after every pass play half of them would appear dejected, as well as after the drops and sacks. I'm sure he was frustrated.

I just want them to play the best player.

 

[yoshukai]

To be fair, if they showed his face after every pass play half of them would appear dejected, as well as after the drops and sacks. I'm sure he was frustrated.

I just want them to play the best player.

Me too ! And I honestly hope the best for both players . Even though I'm REALLY disappointed in the way he has progressed , I realize it is probably best for the program and even Drew Barker if Towles turns things around and becomes the quarterback we hoped he'd be .

 

[BlueRaider22]

You tell me. Is Towles throwing to a spot and ignoring the receiver? Have the receivers and Towles reached that level of perfection? No latitude for adjustment in an imprecise route?

Then what's the need for protection, much beyond 2 sec, on most short or intermediate routes? That would give greater variation in our run and pass options.

Well it depends. As always in life it's a combination. On out patterns like the one I mentioned, he is mainly looking to a spot. The ball is often thrown before the WR even cuts.....so, he has to throw to a spot. Routes like this involve a lot of timing which takes discipline as a WR and QB....which takes time and practice to develop.

Seam routes are a little different because the route isn't as precise and so therefore throws must pay attention to the WR. The reason they aren't as precise is because the WR must find the seam between 2-3 defenders which may alter the route.

Option routes are the ultimate. It takes veteran WRs to run precise routes and the QB must pay attention.

Also, you will hear anouncers talk about a QB "throwing to a patch of grass." The best WR/QB combos can anticipate each other. Think Peyton Manning and Marvin Harrison back in the day. Often Peyton would throw to an open patch of grass. It wouldn't really be part of the route but the throw would just be in the vacinity of Marvin where no defender could get to it. Marvin would make some crazy adjustment and catch.

So, it's a dance. Sometimes all a QB has is a blind throw on a timing route. And sometimes there's an artistry to it all. Basically it's a nightmare if both the QB and WR are trying to figure it out at the same time.....let alone if protection is inconsistent, etc.

 

[EKCAT4YRS]

As long as Towles is the QB I will support him. Then I will support the next guy. They're kids playing a game for my enjoyment.

+1

 

[pickled cat]

Pat did just fine when given time to throw against USC. Things get a little tougher when defenses are sitting in your lap. Not every throw is going to be perfect, it's time now for our stud recievers to start making plays. We've got great playmakers, it's time they started making plays!! I just think this offense is going to check film and come up with asolution to preasure D's. this is a very good group, and a hell of a staff; they'll get it going on a consistant basis.