Prospects Simply Don't Want to Play CBB: SI Article

[sambowieshin]

People are free to spend their winters doing puzzles, building snowmen or whatever and not watching the games. I for one will never miss a UK game the rest of my life unless it's for a good reason and I couldn't care less who suits up. It's freaking ENTERTAINMENT, no more or less.

You are absolutely correct to some extent. But some forms of entertainment are worthy of planning an entire evening around and others are not. College basketball is dying and being replaced by the NBA D-lite College League.....and it is NOT "Must See TV".

 

[gojvc]

It’s been over 20+ years now since guys like Kobe Bryant, Jermaine O’Neal, Kevin Garnett, etc started skipping college for the league. It’s been a long, long time since elite prospects were dreaming about college instead of the NBA. Forde acts as if that’s new but it absolutely is not. We’ve only been getting them in college the last 15 years because we’ve been making the come.

 

[NoDef]

You left out: "An Auburn team that thrashed 4-seed Kansas and ran 1-seed North Carolina out of the gym two days before the Kentucky game...."
Should Kentucky have beaten Auburn? Probably, even with PJ having only come back the game before. Was it some earth-shattering upset to lose to a veteran team the third time you have to play them, especially when you can't get one foul called your way for a 9.30 stretch to end regulation? Not really.

How many small point guards have put us out of the tourney?

 

[bucsrule8872]

It’s been over 20+ years now since guys like Kobe Bryant, Jermaine O’Neal, Kevin Garnett, etc started skipping college for the league. It’s been a long, long time since elite prospects were dreaming about college instead of the NBA. Forde acts as if that’s new but it absolutely is not. We’ve only been getting them in college the last 15 years because we’ve been making the come.

And I distinctly remember that college basketball survived without Kobe and Jermaine and KG.

I think it will survive without Green, Todd, and even (dare I say it) Clarke if he so chooses.

 

[Smashcat]

People are free to spend their winters doing puzzles, building snowmen or whatever and not watching the games. I for one will never miss a UK game the rest of my life unless it's for a good reason and I couldn't care less who suits up. It's freaking ENTERTAINMENT, no more or less.

Agree. I wonder why so many folks are fed up and disgusted with CBB but keep coming back to a basketball board. And bringing Pat Forde junk no less.

 

[gojvc]

And I distinctly remember that college basketball survived without Kobe and Jermaine and KG.

I think it will survive without Green, Todd, and even (dare I say it) Clarke if he so chooses.

Yes it will. I’m not saying there aren’t any issues to address but the sky is falling mentality is completely unwarranted.

 

[bucsrule8872]

Yes it will. I’m not saying there aren’t any issues to address but the sky is falling mentality is completely unwarranted.

Agreed.

 

[kb22stang]

Highlighting what I posted yesterday regarding Kentucky being the prime example of the NCAA's failure to keep CBB relevant:

But Montgomery is the latest in a long line of Wildcats who viewed college basketball as something to be endured, not embraced, ready to get out as fast as possible. John Calipari has built and sold his program as a drive-thru on the way to the pros — exactly what top prospects want to hear — so it’s no shock when players treat it as exactly that. Ready or not, they’re leaving.


After losing 94 percent of their 2019-20 scoring, Kentucky fans at least have another raft of blue-chippers to get excited about next season. But as hard as those fans cheer for the name on the front of the jersey, it won’t mean as much to the guys wearing them. And the next group isn’t planning on staying any longer than the last group.

https://www.si.com/college/2020/04/16/nba-draft-prospects-g-league-college-basketball

There is nothing college basketball could have done. They offer an amateur model because they can't afford to pay all their student athletes the G-League and others offer a professional alternative. It's simply a shift in the marketplace and no stipend is going to slow it down because kids want to focus on basketball, not class.

You either like free market economics or you don't. Personally I think the system is finally correcting itself after so many years of taking advantage of kids that didn't need anything they are offering.

But college basketball isn't going to die, it will just change to more of a true amateur model where coaches don't get paid 8 million a year and players that don't need or want the college showcase get to go out and start earning.

People acting the NCAA is dying off are off base. Guys like Forde might have to find new things to write about, fans may not get to see the top players, TV contracts will be drastically diminished and coaches salaries will decrease. But the key point here is we are finally starting to see freedom of decision making for top tier players who aren't interested in college. That is a good thing at the end of the day, even if it means less spectator enjoyment.

 

[kb22stang]

Yes it will. I’m not saying there aren’t any issues to address but the sky is falling mentality is completely unwarranted.

This shift is much larger than the handful of kids that went pro before. It will have a much larger impact on the sport, but it will survive.

 

[bucsrule8872]

And we are focusing on basketball.

College sports will survive because 90%+ student athletes are staying four to five years in college and are never going to play as pros. Most need the athletic scholarship to pay for school.

We focus on the sport we love and tend to forget about the other sports.

Maybe it’s time that college basketball is not about the money.

Maybe it should be like swimming and baseball and soccer.

What is wrong with it being amateur sports again?

 

[Baller Cal]

Agree. I wonder why so many folks are fed up and disgusted with CBB but keep coming back to a basketball board. And bringing Pat Forde junk no less.

Too funny. Every single poster here will be glued to their TV next year. Most rooting for UK, some against.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

I think this is a little overdramatic.

I am not worried about “quality of play.” As long as the rest of college basketball is at a comparable level, then I am good. As long as Duke and KU and UNC are in the same boat and everything is competitive, I am good.

As long as there is a team with “KENTUCKY” across the front of their jerseys, I am good. I don’t care if they can’t dunk or make a 3 point shot as long as the rest of college basketball is in the same boat, I will watch the games. It’s all about the name on the front of the jersey for me.

Even if the “game as we know it” changes, as long as the Kentucky Wildcats play, I will watch.

You appear to be fine with the quality of play substantially decreasing within college basketball. I have no doubt there will be fans like you forever, which is fine.

But the sport -- which is already hanging on by a thread when it comes to overall popularity -- will continue to become a byword for the average American sports fan.

Additionally, not having guys like Zion or Davis or Wall on the court is one thing. But just wait until the Maxeys, Bostons, and Knoxs of the world stop suiting up for Kentucky.

There, too, I'm sure you'd be more than fine with such a reality. Most of our fans won't, especially when it means Kentucky's chances of winning a title drop dramatically because of the overall parity in the sport. It's hard to make a case that Kentucky can dominate a bunch of other teams when your best players have the skill level of Erik Daniels, Isaiah Briscoe, and Patrick Sparks.

Maybe you groom a bunch of guys for multiple years, but it will be nothing you can consistently count on. The second a guy sees an inch of G-League daylight, he'll be gone.

It's time to open up the free market and let these kids earn from their likeness.

 

[Justwar]

And we are focusing on basketball.

College sports will survive because 90%+ student athletes are staying four to five years in college and are never going to play as pros. Most need the athletic scholarship to pay for school.

We focus on the sport we love and tend to forget about the other sports.

Maybe it’s time that college basketball is not about the money.

Maybe it should be like swimming and baseball and soccer.

What is wrong with it being amateur sports again?

Without the TV deals, lower ratings so on, college athletics will receive less funding, thus less scholarships to go around so ultimately it will hurt more than the big sports. If they can simply allow making money off likeness, this will be a meeting right in the middle.

 

[gojvc]

This shift is much larger than the handful of kids that went pro before. It will have a much larger impact on the sport, but it will survive.

How many kids is the G-league going to offer $500K contracts to each year? Even if it was 50, which I highly doubt, you would still have a lot of very talented kids coming into college basketball every year. And they will be the kids are who going to be in the college game for multiple years mostly. In time, we may find that the roster continuity actually makes for a higher quality of basketball and more fan interest simultaneously.

 

[Justwar]

How many kids is the G-league going to offer $500K contracts to each year? Even if it was 50, which I highly doubt, you would still have a lot of very talented kids coming into college basketball every year. And they will be the kids are who going to be in the college game for multiple years mostly. In time, we may find that the roster continuity actually makes for a higher quality of basketball and more fan interest simultaneously.

Imagine roster uncertainty till the end of the spring even more so then now. You can't really know who'll take the money. It will hurt the game

 

[Blueaz]

Good ole Pat Forde. But he’s right quite frankly, this year makes it more obvious than ever.

it's worse every season...Cal needs to change his style. He has done it before, he can do it again

 

[gojvc]

Imagine roster uncertainty till the end of the spring even more so then now. You can't really know who'll take the money. It will hurt the game

If I was a coach I’d assume anybody offered the money will take it. Because most of the time that’s what will happen.

 

[Son_Of_Saul]

Without the TV deals, lower ratings so on, college athletics will receive less funding, thus less scholarships to go around so ultimately it will hurt more than the big sports. If they can simply allow making money off likeness, this will be a meeting right in the middle.

Yep. Imagine 2005 without Rondo or Morris; 2002 without Prince or Bogans; 1998 without Magloire or Mohammed; 1995 without Rhodes, Walker or Delk; 2011 without Knight or Jones.

That's what college basketball will be if the sport doesn't get ahead of this thing.

 

[Soupbean]

That's a good article that nails the situation precisely.

First thing that needs to happen is to get rid of the one and done rule. The days of trying to force players who have absolutely no interest in college to play CBB need to end. It's reached the point where we can't even fake the illusion where we pretend they want to be there.

But we need the NBA's cooperation to do that. C'mon, NBA, help us out...

Yep - getting rid of done will do more to fix college basketball than anything. Its good for those the players and for college basketball for those who dont have any interest in being there to not be there and COLLEGE basketball get a little closer to beign COLLEGE basketball.

The notions the nobody will watch because all the best talent will be skipping is just wrong. There may be a few less talented 18 year olds in the league but there will be a lot more talented 19 and 20 year olds than before and the overall level of team play will be better because of that.

I dont watch college basketball to see 4 or 5 of the most talented guys peform, I can do what by turning on the NBA anytime I want. I watch COLLEGE baskteball for the tradition and competitive drama of how teams compete and seasons play out and thats get better when rosters are made up of mulit year players. I know my interest went way down with all these one and done mega talents around so my interest is only going to grow with more 2 and 3 year players around not get less.

Its the best thing that could happen to save COLLEGE basketball.

 

[bucsrule8872]

I’m good with paying players.

But it’s not the end of college ball if the G-League takes the best talent.

Fans will still watch UK basketball and the Cameron Crazies will still cheer for the Devils, and alumni and boosters will still back their alma mater.

So, to spew the doom and gloom is nonsense.

Pay players or don’t pay players, it’s all the same to the true college basketball fan who roots for his or her school that he or she attended or grew up watching all their lives.

Doesn’t really matter who wears the uniform as long as someone does.

Sure some fair weather fans will cut bait and lose interest. That’s fine. See ya!

In the end, I watch the Cats. I watched them in the 80’s, when we went to one Final Four. I watched in the early 90’s with probation. I watched when it was Tubby and BCG. I will watch no matter what.

And even if it is an awful product, what good does it do to complain? The powers that be are in charge, so I can’t really do much except quit watching or accept the product as is. And since I don’t care whether it’s some super athlete like Zion playing against another Zion-esque player or if it’s a Patrick Sparks level player going against another Sparks type guy, what matters is the name on the front not on the back.

So, I’m happy either way. Not getting tore up about the G-League stuff at all. It just isn’t an issue to me.

Go Cats! One way or another.

 

[CB3UK]

I think this is true.

Its absolutely true and its baffling to me why people on this very board want to sit an argue otherwise every time we point it out. Im going to start calling them the enablers.

 

[CB3UK]

Doesn’t really matter who wears the uniform as long as someone does.

What a bad attitude to have about it.

even if it is an awful product, what good does it do to complain? The powers that be are in charge, so I can’t really do much except quit watching or accept the product as is.

No, they arent. We, the fans, the people....WE are in charge. Our money, our eyeballs, are what dictate things. Look no further than Joker Phillips. He didnt last long, for a reason. Look no further than Billy Gillispie. He didnt last long, for a reason.
"Just accept the product." What the hell kind of attitude is that. I understand that those 2 coaching comparisons arent comparable to what Cal's resume here is. Thats not the point. The point is who holds the cards to dictate change.

People need to refresh their memory about just how many people were going to games at Rupp the first two plus months of the season this year. Cal didnt go on social media and on his coaches show imploring fans to show up to games just for gits and shiggles. The tickets were sold. And people still didnt bother to show up. Thats not just "well its on TV." Who pays that kind of money for season tickets just to sit at home anyway, consistently.

There are problems here people. Its not being do and gloom to say so. It's being up front and honest.

 

[Creed Bratton]

I dislike Forde but he is right and it has been that way for a few years. It's funny to see the players say after their playing days are over or even while they are in the NBA how their days in college at UK were the best of their lives. It reminds me of the quote from The Office where Andy Bernard says "I wish there was a way to know you were in the good old days before you actually left them." They are in a rush to get to the NBA and be a millionaire that they don't enjoy the ride and views along the way and that is sad.

 

[cats2010]

Forde with the obligatory shot at Calipari: "John Calipari has built and sold his program as a drive-thru on the way to the pros — exactly what top prospects want to hear — so it’s no shock when players treat it as exactly that."

Sounds right, huh? Nope. You think that's the way he sells it - shortest route to the league?

Erik Spoelstra: "We love what Cal does. I’ve been up there a few times, just to see how he does his program. We like talking shop and everything. But he’s going to coach you hard. They’re going to spend a lot of time with player development. They’re not going to treat you with kid gloves because of whatever you were ranked in high school."

Does that sound like 2 different people describing the same thing? It does not. That's what you get from Pat Forde - drive-by cheap shots. Unless he likes you.

How is stating the obvious taking a shot. Both of those statements are correct. What would be your rebuttal to Forde to dispute what he said?

 

[BlueSince92]

CBB had a good run.

 

[kl40504]

He's 100% right. Finding the best "value" players who are coachable and blend both talent and loyalty will become even more important. Coaches who have a system and can get the most out of their personnel will matter more than before.

If there are any complaints about Coach Cal in the last 11 years, it's been two things. Maximizing personnel to their strengths and not his system and adjustments when things don't go as planned. It's painful to look back at just how many close calls and missed opportunities we've had in this era and every season there is a game, or a half, or a stretch of time we can point out to see these glaring weaknesses.

Look no further than the 2019 Final Four loss to Auburn. An inferior Auburn team who Kentucky already smashed 3 weeks earlier. An Auburn team missing one of their best players and maybe top pro prospect. And Auburn team who was undersized and full of 3-4 year players. An Auburn team that went right at Kentucky, who had the top PG recruit and the top defensive PG in the country, and drove past them time after time after time, and then exploited a UK team that lacked an elite protector inside.

An Auburn team that could have won the national championship except for one bad call.

 

[TNCatfanforever]

Highlighting what I posted yesterday regarding Kentucky being the prime example of the NCAA's failure to keep CBB relevant:

But Montgomery is the latest in a long line of Wildcats who viewed college basketball as something to be endured, not embraced, ready to get out as fast as possible. John Calipari has built and sold his program as a drive-thru on the way to the pros — exactly what top prospects want to hear — so it’s no shock when players treat it as exactly that. Ready or not, they’re leaving.


After losing 94 percent of their 2019-20 scoring, Kentucky fans at least have another raft of blue-chippers to get excited about next season. But as hard as those fans cheer for the name on the front of the jersey, it won’t mean as much to the guys wearing them. And the next group isn’t planning on staying any longer than the last group.

https://www.si.com/college/2020/04/16/nba-draft-prospects-g-league-college-basketball

Exactly the monster Cal created with the players first agenda and draft day is our best day now. The teams that have followed his model are in the same boat, just look what has happened to Duke as well. The one and done ruined the purity of the game Cals teams will be competitive in March but there wont be any championships with this mind set. 2012 was a long time ago.

 

[chroix]

But as hard as those fans cheer for the name on the front of the jersey, it won’t mean, it won’t mean as much to the guys wearing them.

This statement has clearly been shown not to be true. Most of the kids that come through here gush about their time at UK.

Forde’s whole column is built on false premises and the haters latch on because it fits their agenda. You knobbers are keeping fine company.

 

[HagginHall1999]

Im not so sure. After endorsements Green could be making $1-$2 million in the G league.

Depends on what they would approve in "likeliness."

If they approve of player getting endorsements, advertisements, etc the pay could be ridiculous at a place like Kentucky.

You can really only go two ways imo. All in or all out.

Let kids go to NBA straight out of HS or go to college for a minimum of 2 years and allow them to sign endorsement deals advertising themselves.

Three years is too big of an ask IMO. Those days sailed 25+ years ago...primarily starting with Fab 5.

 

[kybassfan]

Pay players? That’s utter stupidity. Just gonna make it a 1000 time worse. You don’t want kids to leave, recruit ones that have no option. Or bind the ones that do contractually.

Commercialism caused this. Making it more commercial and throwing more money into the hands of children is not going to make it better.

 

[-BBH-]

I think this is true.

I think it’s true the top prospects want to get paid ASAP. A year to a teenager is an eternity.

But the OPs recent remarks about UK being what’s wrong with CBB is bullshit.

 

[know1]

Again, it's not just about the money the kids can make. It's about learning the business of professional basketball and focusing on that as your career without the limitations that college has in place like limited practice time and focus on trying to win at the college game. It's easy to see that a player with NBA potential can optimize their time getting ready for pro ball and not being limited by the college game. Oh yeah, you can make money doing that as well. I think it's a no brainer for kids with a legitimate shot at the pros. They can always go back and get a degree if it doesn't work out.

 

[ScrooDook92]

Forde with the obligatory shot at Calipari: "John Calipari has built and sold his program as a drive-thru on the way to the pros — exactly what top prospects want to hear — so it’s no shock when players treat it as exactly that."

Sounds right, huh? Nope. You think that's the way he sells it - shortest route to the league?

Erik Spoelstra: "We love what Cal does. I’ve been up there a few times, just to see how he does his program. We like talking shop and everything. But he’s going to coach you hard. They’re going to spend a lot of time with player development. They’re not going to treat you with kid gloves because of whatever you were ranked in high school."

Does that sound like 2 different people describing the same thing? It does not. That's what you get from Pat Forde - drive-by cheap shots. Unless he likes you.

Let's flip that around. Coaches who like other coaches don't trash them. Cal DOES work these kids' asses off. He also made it clear from the get-go that he wanted elite talent. You don't get elite talent consistently with making room for those kids.

 

[oldsports_]

This post is all time low for RR. I thought it was agreed, never to click Forde sh$t
Smdh

 

[KA4Prez]

Hilarious how you guys bashed me for crapping on Auburn. This isn't about Auburn. This is about Kentucky, as a big favorite, losing to an SEC team with a shot to make another Final Four. One of the worst losses in Cal's history at UK. Spin it how you want about how Auburn should've beaten UVA and that UVA could've have lost in the title game to TT. It doesn't matter. Had you told me that Kentucky would've had the path they did to the Elite 8 and then play AUBURN, DOWN A STARTER, and lose because our 5-star/top defensive PG in the nation couldn't stop a 4-year, fringe NBA player in Jared Harper?

 

[ruppcat]

All because the Swim team and the Field hockey team want equal pay. It really would be nice if college athletes could just get paid what they're worth. A guy like John wall was easily worth $50-$100k..

And if this virus "crisis" continues they will find out exactly how much they're worth.

Women's sports are about to get a dose of economic reality.

 

[jwphelps]

Highlighting what I posted yesterday regarding Kentucky being the prime example of the NCAA's failure to keep CBB relevant:

But Montgomery is the latest in a long line of Wildcats who viewed college basketball as something to be endured, not embraced, ready to get out as fast as possible. John Calipari has built and sold his program as a drive-thru on the way to the pros — exactly what top prospects want to hear — so it’s no shock when players treat it as exactly that. Ready or not, they’re leaving.


After losing 94 percent of their 2019-20 scoring, Kentucky fans at least have another raft of blue-chippers to get excited about next season. But as hard as those fans cheer for the name on the front of the jersey, it won’t mean as much to the guys wearing them. And the next group isn’t planning on staying any longer than the last group.

https://www.si.com/college/2020/04/16/nba-draft-prospects-g-league-college-basketball

That maybe true, but how many of these prospects are actually NBA ready, no way in hell you can tell me E.J. showed you anything that would say he is ready for the NBA. Hell out of high school only about 4 or 5 could actually make the transition and make a NBA roster.

 

[jameslee32]

 

[bigbluedon]

College b-ball is so broken. I don’t watch any games but ours and if we lose in the tournament I am done for the season. Money, loose rule interpretation and incompetent officials have ruined it for me.

 

[UK90]

View embedded media

Mack acts like he's refuting them, but really this tweet only reinforces the point of that SI article.

College basketball does not need the players who absolutely do not want to be here. It does not need the recruits ranked in the Top 10 coming out of high school. It will be fine with stars like Obi Toppin, Luke Garza and Markus Howard who, even though they weren't ranked that high in HS, are still tremendous players.

So could we please just get rid of the one and done rule and stop trying to force unwilling players into CBB.