POLL: Is there a God ??

[roguemocha]

^hes got a point. It does say a hundred times in the Bible that of course you can’t understand it, God doesn’t work in the constraints of our world and imagination.

The fact that wildcatfaninohio can’t understand or comprehend or imagine or quantify God is because we’re not capable.

Why would an all-powerful entity have to work in the constraints of YOUR understanding? I don’t understand it all either, but I love the process of trying.

 

[crashtestdummy]

Well I go to a baptist church so zero priests, I know that at least, and I surely don’t believe you actually think ALL or even most or even 1/2 or even 1/100th of churches are working in congruence to commit and cover up pedophilia.

It is well documented, pedophilia exist within both Catholic and Baptist religions. Not all of the 10% goes towards hunger, clothing, and certainly not safe spaces for children, is my point. If even 1% of church donations goes towards enabling/protecting these ambassadors of God, my Atheist morality suggests this is too much.

 

[WildcatfaninOhio]

This is where atheists, non-believers, etc....stick their head up their backside. Logic and reality?.....all you have to do is look outside. Logic and reality is as clear as a new pane of glass. Don't understand what I am referring to?.....read the Bible.

I would invite you to read The Iliad so you can better understand the gods Zeus, Hades and Poseidon. Once you do this, look around outside and your eyes will be opened to the REAL truth.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

How much of that 10% went towards harboring pedo priest and pastors.....

How much of your money goes toward evil?

How much of your money goes toward feeding the poor, taking care of widows and orphans, protecting people who are victims of abuse, etc.?

Acting superior, whether an atheist or a believer, doesn’t help anyone.

 

[crashtestdummy]

How much of your money goes toward evil?

How much of your money goes toward feeding the poor, taking care of widows and orphans, protecting people who are victims of abuse, etc.?

Acting superior, whether an atheist or a believer, doesn’t help anyone.

I would suggest pedophilia in religion doesn't help anyone. Within this thread you have demonstrated how you have sacrificed humanity for your religion. You suggesting my behavior shouldn't rise above pedophiles is just another example of your struggle.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

I would suggest pedophilia in religion doesn't help anyone.

It’s odd that you say pedophilia “in religion.” Do you believe pedophilia in ANYWAY helps?

Within this thread you have demonstrated how you have sacrificed humanity for your religion.

Ipse dixit comment. Prove it.

You suggesting my behavior shouldn't rise above pedophiles is just another example of your struggle.

Of course you know that no one on this thread said such a thing. Why are you so afraid to have an honest discussion?

 

[MadaboutBlue]

How much of your money goes toward evil?

How much of your money goes toward feeding the poor, taking care of widows and orphans, protecting people who are victims of abuse, etc.?

Acting superior, whether an atheist or a believer, doesn’t help anyone.

I'm still waiting for some kind of an explanation of why evangelicals flock to a man like Donald Trump. I get they think they might pay lower taxes or the stock market might be marginally better. but aren't there other Candidates who have higher moral character? I mean-just wow.

Why evangelicals are so willing to bear false witness against those they don't even know, and specifically, why those that profess their religion the loudest on this very board act in ways that are so antithetical to that very religion on this message board.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

I'm still waiting for some kind of an explanation of why evangelicals flock to a man like Donald Trump.

Weird that you respond to my post with this comment. Find the person you are really talking about and ask them, rather than create a diversion with me so you don’t have to discuss the issue I am discussing.

I get they think they might pay lower taxes or the stock market might be marginally better. but aren't there other Candidates who have higher moral character? I mean-just wow.

Again, go to the source and do your research if this truly concerns you.

Why evangelicals are so willing to bear false witness against those they don't even know, and specifically, why those that profess their religion the loudest on this very board act in ways that are so antithetical to that very religion on this message board.

That is a bit of a word salad ending, but clearly just an attempt to divert.

But, thanks for reading?

 

[MadaboutBlue]

Weird that you respond to my post with this comment. Find the person you are really talking about and ask them, rather than create a diversion with me so you don’t have to discuss the issue I am discussing.


Again, go to the source and do your research if this truly concerns you.



That is a bit of a word salad ending, but clearly just an attempt to divert.

But, thanks for reading?

Who could have ever predicted you couldn't come up with any kind of reasonable answer. But now that we're talking, I'm very curious. What specifically about Donald Trump reminds you of Jesus?

 

[crashtestdummy]

It’s odd that you say pedophilia “in religion.” Do you believe pedophilia in ANYWAY helps?


Ipse dixit comment. Prove it.


Of course you know that no one on this thread said such a thing. Why are you so afraid to have an honest discussion?

I specifically asked you if you agreed with the bible being moral about dashing infants heads upon rocks....
You answered YES. Many here witnessed this. I will not waste my time going back looking for this immoral answer.
You know this to be true.
This is just one example of many. Another is Slavery in the bible, to which you support.

 

[crashtestdummy]

Why are you so afraid to have an honest discussion?

Not afraid. A discussion between you and I would be pointless. We observe reality differently.
You recognize fantasy as truth/reality.

 

[roguemocha]

It is well documented, pedophilia exist within both Catholic and Baptist religions. Not all of the 10% goes towards hunger, clothing, and certainly not safe spaces for children, is my point. If even 1% of church donations goes towards enabling/protecting these ambassadors of God, my Atheist morality suggests this is too much.

Pedophilia exists everywhere, it’s not beholden to the church. And I’m positive 0% of my donations go toward protecting pedophilia.

The fact that you pretend to believe that 1% of churches deal with pedophilia, in of itself is sad. I feel for the world you believe you live in. That’s the internet word man. Get out in the actual world and live a bit.

Calling evangelicals “trump supporters” is lame too. I’m Christian and not a trump supporter. Don’t support Biden either. You make yourself look of low intelligence, reasoning and skills of debate though when you use blanket statements.

It’s the same as when people say, “White men are this…..”. It’s dumb, not factual and a feeble attempt at debate.

Why do non-believers lie(bare false witness as you said) just as easily? People lie. People sin. Being Christian doesn’t make you unable to sin. You shouldn’t but we all do daily.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Who could have ever predicted you couldn't come up with any kind of reasonable answer. But now that we're talking, I'm very curious. What specifically about Donald Trump reminds you of Jesus?

Hey, go troll someone else with your strawman arguments. It does not flatter you.

 

[roguemocha]

Not afraid. A discussion between you and I would be pointless. We observe reality differently.
You recognize fantasy as truth/reality.

And others could say the exact same thing about you with the exact same proof/evidence, so what’s the point of saying that? It gets no one anywhere.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

I specifically asked you if you agreed with the bible being moral about dashing infants heads upon rocks....

I know that you think finding the most difficult to understand passages in the Bible is some sort of counter to the most easy to understand comments and scripture. It’s a sign of insecurity to avoid the easy by focusing on the most difficult.

You are avoiding simple questions directed to you to return to a place where you feel you have the upper hand. This is a rhetorical question: why do you think that is?

You answered YES. Many here witnessed this. I will not waste my time going back looking for this immoral answer.
You know this to be true.
This is just one example of many. Another is Slavery in the bible, to which you support.

You also avoided EVERY Christian’s attempts to explain to you the provisions about biblical references to slavery so that you could maintain your ignorant attacks, which is a sign that you are insecure with your position. The Bible, as history has demonstrated in action, is anti-slavery.

 

[crashtestdummy]

And others could say the exact same thing about you with the exact same proof/evidence, so what’s the point of saying that? It gets no one anywhere.

I don't recognize fantasy as reality.
Your religion which you believe does. That is the point.
Man living in fish...talking snakes/bush...virgin giving birth. Need I continue?

 

[crashtestdummy]

I know that you think finding the most difficult to understand passages in the Bible is some sort of counter to the most easy to understand comments and scripture. It’s a sign of insecurity to avoid the easy by focusing on the most difficult.

You are avoiding simple questions directed to you to return to a place where you feel you have the upper hand. This is a rhetorical question: why do you think that is?



You also avoided EVERY Christian’s attempts to explain to you the provisions about biblical references to slavery so that you could maintain your ignorant attacks, which is a sign that you are insecure with your position. The Bible, as history has demonstrated in action, is anti-slavery.

Under which biblical reference would you be my slave? I'm guessing here, but I'd say none.
I noticed you didn't argue your position on "dashing infants heads on rocks". Perhaps you know your position is lacking humanity.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Not afraid. A discussion between you and I would be pointless. We observe reality differently.
You recognize fantasy as truth/reality.

At least you admit your attacks here are not motivated by any attempt to discuss the issues in this thread but are just ad hominem in nature. I am sure you could scare some casual observer into atheism by your behavior and not wanting to be the subject of an attack, but you won’t convince anyone who is trying to think through these issues. But I honestly thank you for confirming my decision to place you on ignore.

Maybe, even if you don’t believe Jesus when it comes to God, you will believe some of His teachings and find a more generous heart. Be like Gandhi. It is reported that he read Jesus’ sermon on the Mount almost daily. You can follow the recognizable truth, even if you don’t recognize the Truth about Jesus.

 

[roguemocha]

I don't recognize fantasy as reality.
Your religion which you believe does. That is the point.
Man living in fish...talking snakes/bush...virgin giving birth. Need I continue?

You know that most Christians don’t take all that literally right? There are absolutely some fables, stories meant as metaphors, exaggerations, etc in the Bible.

The Bible is a tool to help you understand God, Jesus and be a better Christian. I personally don’t feel it’s meant to be taken literally to a T.

I don’t think Adam & Eve is an exact story. I believe it’s meant to explain to people 2000 years ago how the world started in an easy to understand story for people that didn’t know much of what we know.

Just like in 1000 years people will look at us as absolute morons that were basically cavemen compared to them.

They’ll probably think some of our scientific “theories” that they’ve since proven wrong were basically a bullshit religion we made up to make us feel like we “knew the universe to some degree” and to make us feel as we had control of things. But you believe those theories now, don’t you?

 

[crashtestdummy]

I know that you think finding the most difficult to understand passages in the Bible is some sort of counter to the most easy to understand comments and scripture. It’s a sign of insecurity to avoid the easy by focusing on the most difficult.

You are avoiding simple questions directed to you to return to a place where you feel you have the upper hand. This is a rhetorical question: why do you think that is?



You also avoided EVERY Christian’s attempts to explain to you the provisions about biblical references to slavery so that you could maintain your ignorant attacks, which is a sign that you are insecure with your position. The Bible, as history has demonstrated in action, is anti-slavery.

1 Peter 2:18 18 Slaves, in reverent fear of God submit yourselves to your masters, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh.​

1 Timothy 6:1 1 All who are under the YOKE OF SLAVERY should consider their masters worthy of full respect, so that God’s name and our teaching may not be slandered.​

Exodus 21:20-21​

Exodus 21:20-21
20 “Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result,
21 but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property.

Leviticus 25:44-46
44 “ ‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.
45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.
46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Under which biblical reference would you be my slave? I'm guessing here, but I'd say none.

Don’t mix your “cannot have a discussion” with questions that pretend you want a discussion.

Answer to your question: If we lived in a culture where servitude was part of the welfare system and I found myself and family in dire economic need.

I noticed you didn't argue your position on "dashing infants heads on rocks". Perhaps you know your position is lacking humanity.

link the quoted scripture and I will tell you what I think, despite your admission that you don’t desire honest discussion.

 

[MadaboutBlue]

Hey, go troll someone else with your strawman arguments. It does not flatter you.

Well..it's not for you to give me instructions. I'm making a very fair and valid point.

If you tell me about your religion..and you say.."it not only promises eternal salvation in an afterlife..but also kindness toward each other, love for each other, forgiveness for our mistakes, emotional support for when we're troubled and even phsycial support for the less fortunate...You have my attention. In fact, i'm going to trip over people to sign up.

But then, after i sign up you say..."Oh by the way..a bunch of us are trying to get this guy elected President so he can spread our values over the entire nation and you take me to a Trump rally, you show me "God Made Trump" video, you direct me to Trump's Truth Social page so I can follow his thoughts...I'm going to have some second thoughts.

They way i understand it..shouldn't our behavior be earthly testimonials to our love and our fait? That's my takeaway..and it's powerful thought.

 

[crashtestdummy]

At least you admit your attacks here are not motivated by any attempt to discuss the issues in this thread but are just ad hominem in nature. I am sure you could scare some casual observer into atheism by your behavior and not wanting to be the subject of an attack, but you won’t convince anyone who is trying to think through these issues. But I honestly thank you for confirming my decision to place you on ignore.

Maybe, even if you don’t believe Jesus when it comes to God, you will believe some of His teachings and find a more generous heart. Be like Gandhi. It is reported that he read Jesus’ sermon on the Mount almost daily. You can follow the recognizable truth, even if you don’t recognize the Truth about Jesus.

Yea, I'd ignore me too, if I were you. Crawl back safely in the comfort of your delusion.

 

[crashtestdummy]

Don’t mix your “cannot have a discussion” with questions that pretend you want a discussion.

Answer to your question: If we lived in a culture where servitude was part of the welfare system and I found myself and family in dire economic need.



link the quoted scripture and I will tell you what I think, despite your admission that you don’t desire honest discussion.

Psalm 137:9

In Psalm 137:9, he [God] told us that we should be happy to take the innocent babies and dash them against the stones.​

You have already stated you agree this is an example of moral behavior, because God says so.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

1 Peter 2:18 18 Slaves, in reverent fear of God submit yourselves to your masters, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh.​

1 Timothy 6:1 1 All who are under the YOKE OF SLAVERY should consider their masters worthy of full respect, so that God’s name and our teaching may not be slandered.​

Exodus 21:20-21​

Exodus 21:20-21
20 “Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result,
21 but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property.

Leviticus 25:44-46
44 “ ‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.
45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.
46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.

What is your attempted point? That the Bible admits slavery was part of a relevant culture?

 

[Catemus]

No. You quoted the typical Freudian claim that religion is a way for people to calm anxieties about the unknown. I responded by calling it what it was.

Atheists like to tell believers why they believe, rather than ask. And, atheists call Christians arrogant.
No. You quoted the typical Freudian claim that religion is a way for people to calm anxieties about the unknown. I responded by calling it what it was.

I don’t think quote means what you think it does.

Also, you’re using the word atheist when you should be using antitheist. Atheists could not care less what you believe.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Well..it's not for you to give me instructions. I'm making a very fair and valid point.

If you tell me about your religion..and you say.."it not only promises eternal salvation in an afterlife..but also kindness toward each other, love for each other, forgiveness for our mistakes, emotional support for when we're troubled and even phsycial support for the less fortunate...You have my attention. In fact, i'm going to trip over people to sign up.

But then, after i sign up you say..."Oh by the way..a bunch of us are trying to get this guy elected President so he can spread our values over the entire nation and you take me to a Trump rally, you show me "God Made Trump" video, you direct me to Trump's Truth Social page so I can follow his thoughts...I'm going to have some second thoughts.

They way i understand it..shouldn't our behavior be earthly testimonials to our love and our fait? That's my takeaway..and it's powerful thought.

Seems you are doing what you accuse of others, mixing your political bent with the question of whether God exists. My advice, if there is a hint of any sincerity in your position, is that you investigate God and the Bible without any thought to Trump. If you cannot do that, you may want to investigate why that is. If you investigate the Bible, you may find that you should not put your faith in people.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Yea, I'd ignore me too, if I were you. Crawl back safely in the comfort of your delusion.

And, yet, by changing the questions, you do the crawl you accuse others of performing.

 

[crashtestdummy]

What is your attempted point? That the Bible admits slavery was part of a relevant culture?

My point is slavery is immoral, whenever/wherever/ however practiced. Yet you support this in your bible...
Thus you sacrifice your humanity for your religion.

 

[crashtestdummy]

And, yet, by changing the questions, you do the crawl you accuse others of performing.

Yet I continue to answer all of your questions. Yet refuse or deflect my questions.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Psalm 137:9

In Psalm 137:9, he [God] told us that we should be happy to take the innocent babies and dash them against the stones.​

The Psalmists were honest with God about their feelings. The psalm suggests that the Babylonians slaughtered Israelites and that the Psalmist wants the same curse to befall the Babylonians.

You have already stated you agree this is an example of moral behavior, because God says so.

You can show me what I said in the past and don’t use laziness as an excuse.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

I don’t think quote means what you think it does.

God, as a concept of the brain that is “a comfort to turn to when we experience trauma in our individual and community lives” is not Freudian language? Did we read the same Freud? Have you read Freud?

Also, you’re using the word atheist when you should be using antitheist. Atheists could not care less what you believe.

No. I am using the word as the atheists in this thread use it. Just keeping it real with observation.

 

[Catemus]

God, as a concept of the brain that is “a comfort to turn to when we experience trauma in our individual and community lives” is not Freudian language? Did we read the same Freud? Have you read Freud?



No. I am using the word as the atheists in this thread use it. Just keeping it real with observation.

Well, you seem to have invented your own dictionary and that makes it impossible to communicate with you. I’m out.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

My point is slavery is immoral, whenever/wherever/ however practiced.

Indentured servitude as an economic reality of the Biblical times was a fact. Some people saved their own lives and families through the process. Voluntary servitude may or may not be immoral, depending upon the circumstances. You need to study this subject more.

Yet you support this in your bible...

Slavery exists in the Bible. Involuntary and voluntary. God saved the Jews from involuntary slavery. The Bible does not deny its existence.

Thus you sacrifice your humanity for your religion.

False. I am more human because of my faith.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Well, you seem to have invented your own dictionary and that makes it impossible to communicate with you. I’m out.

Of course you are.

 

[crashtestdummy]

The Psalmists were honest with God about their feelings. The psalm suggests that the Babylonians slaughtered Israelites and that the Psalmist wants the same curse to befall the Babylonians.


You can show me what I said in the past and don’t use laziness as an excuse.

Honestly, your defense to everything I have exposed you of is at best...poor.
This is another reason I am choosing to end this discussion with you.
You and several people here witnessed your support on that scripture. Are you denying that you stated that you are in agreement with this part of scripture?

 

[crashtestdummy]

I don't recognize fantasy as reality.
Your religion which you believe does. That is the point.
Man living in fish...talking snakes/bush...virgin giving birth. Need I continue?

You know that most Christians don’t take all that literally right? There are absolutely some fables, stories meant as metaphors, exaggerations, etc in the Bible.

The Bible is a tool to help you understand God, Jesus and be a better Christian. I personally don’t feel it’s meant to be taken literally to a T.

I forgot Jesus rising from death, or is that a fable as well.
Why would the divine word of God (Bible) be filled with fables? Seems your God struggles with making his instructions and his existence perfectly clear. Perhaps it's all fable.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Yet I continue to answer all of your questions.

False.

Yet refuse or deflect my questions.

False again.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Honestly, your defense to everything I have exposed you of is at best...poor.

You are critical of me, because you have not studied the Bible and have not read it in total.

This is another reason I am choosing to end this discussion with you.

Yeah.

You and several people here witnessed your support on that scripture. Are you denying that you stated that you are in agreement with this part of scripture?

What about my post on the cited scripture did you not understand? Seriously.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Why would the divine word of God (Bible) be filled with fables?

The Bible is filled with every form of literary form. Why would it not be? Read just one gospel and see how Jesus taught.