POLL: Is there a God ??

[mcnicKY91]

Or just as likely, borrowed it from earlier flood myths that existed in Mesopotamia at the time.

Even if you buy the story of a giant boat that housed two of every species on earth and their feed, (apologists like to say the word "kind" to make the number a little smaller-which of course would beg an entire new set of evolutionary questions) how we got to that point sounds a lot more like invented mythology than the workings of a divine omniscient and omnipotent being. The book of Genesis skips the goriest details, but you can find them relatively easily from other texts-the story of the flood has to do with Angels being assigned to earth, being overcome with lust for earth women (after all, spiritual, a-physical beings are all about the lust) breeding with them, and then spawning a race of Giants who behave very, very badly. The book of Genesis resumes at the story of the giants without explaining how they got here. The Giants corrupt mankind, except for Noah and his family. Yahweh looks down with disgust and decides to wipe out the whole darn thing and start from scratch.

This of course begs an entirely new set of questions, the chief one for me being how does an omniscient intelligence regret anything? This story, and dozens of others in the Old Testament, sounds like something a mortal man with superpowers would do, as opposed to a loving, omnipotent, omniscient, spiritual entity.

To be theologically fair, mankind was corrupted because Satan deceived Adam and Eve, biblically speaking. Once that happened, every human being since has been born sinful and corrupted.

Whatever happened with the angels (who in reality were fallen angels/demons) procreating with women on earth (if that is what really happened, as the Bible does not directly say if it was fallen angels/demons that procreated with women, or perhaps demons possessing human men who then procreated with women), mankind was corrupted before then.

Also, just wanted to speak briefly about God's "regret." When we speak about God having regret, it is not synonymous with human regret. They mean two separate things. With God, regret incorporates the thought of compassionate grief and an action taken. God was not showing weakness, admitting an error, or regretting a mistake. Rather, He was expressing His need to take specific, drastic action to counteract the wickedness of mankind.

Interesting topics, for sure.

 

[MadaboutBlue]

Very thoughtful and eloquent response. Much appreciated. I don't quite agree, but I most definitely understand your reasoning.

 

[WildcatfaninOhio]

I've brought evidence of a Creator, which you didn't believe.
I've brought evidence of a Christ, which you didn't believe.
I've brought evidence of a Resurrection, which you didn't believe.

Since you have yet to provide any evidence to refute any of these being true, we'll start here: Genesis 6-8.

Now ... you provide evidence that is not true. Bring sources. This is how an adult discussion works.

It’s been said half a dozen times in this thread. Now will be said once more. The burden of proof lies with those that make a claim. It is not the job of others to disprove your claim.

And you honestly provide me with a daily laugh when your evidence is in a book (actually a collection of books from multiples sources) that has been translated and re-written dozens of times. None of the originals survive. And the earliest writings that do were written several generations after the supposed events took place.

 

[SDC888]

Could it be dozens of different sects/offshoots all interpret an ancient text much differently, but with that interpretation usually including a stipulation that they’re the only ones going to heaven and everyone else is not?

No, that's not what it is.

But God isn't dependent on what group this, what group that...

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Writings about events are no longer evidence. And people who claim there is no God do not have to prove their claims. The atheist perspective is an easy way to deal with the unknown.

 

[Lost In FL]

It’s been said half a dozen times in this thread. Now will be said once more. The burden of proof lies with those that make a claim. It is not the job of others to disprove your claim.

And you honestly provide me with a daily laugh when your evidence is in a book (actually a collection of books from multiples sources) that has been translated and re-written dozens of times. None of the originals survive. And the earliest writings that do were written several generations after the supposed events took place.

66 Books by 39 authors written over thousands of years in different parts of the world, all having the same, consistent message.

Guess it just happens randomly.

 

[WildcatfaninOhio]

66 Books by 39 authors written over thousands of years in different parts of the world, all having the same, consistent message.

Guess it just happens randomly.

1,000+ editions of the Superman comics since the 30s. Proof that Superman is real.

 

[christophero]

So has anyone changed their mind?

 

[WildcatfaninOhio]

So has anyone changed their mind?

I have! I used to think that 100% of all the gods that mankind has manufactured in their imagination were total bullsnot. But now I’m thinking I might get behind Dionysus as a god. The god of wine and pleasure.

The other 99.99% of them are still total bullsnot though.

 

[Lost In FL]

1,000+ editions of the Superman comics since the 30s. Proof that Superman is real.

Were they prophetic?

Short answer. No.

Did any "authors" go to their death proclaiming superman to be anything but a comic? That is a really pathetic attempt at an analogy. Makes no sense at all.

Oh, and you didnt address the statement either. But that has been you guys mo this entire thread ... "small brains" BS.

Try again, princess

 

[christophero]

it did convince me a man could fly.

 

[Lost In FL]

So has anyone changed their mind?

Much more convinced that my positions are correct, rock-solid.

 

[Lost In FL]

Are you going on the record and say Jesus did not exist?

 

[WildcatfaninOhio]

Are you going on the record and say Jesus did not exist?

Not certain whether or not he existed.

Was he the son of an invisible man that lives in the sky, and a teenaged virgin mom that was married to someone else? Nope!

Did he have magical powers? Nope!

Did he come back after being dead all weekend, then get sucked up into the sky to live with his invisible dad? Nope!

Are his groupies annoying? A large number of them are.

 

[WildcatfaninOhio]

Were they prophetic?

Short answer. No.

Did any "authors" go to their death proclaiming superman to be anything but a comic? That is a really pathetic attempt at an analogy. Makes no sense at all.

Oh, and you didnt address the statement either. But that has been you guys mo this entire thread ... "small brains" BS.

Try again, princess

It’s a great story though. His dad was from somewhere up in the sky. And he came to earth and became a “savior” of the downtrodden and the helpless.

How can you not believe in Superman?

 

[christophero]

In Superman the Jesus/Kal El parallels are strong. Jor El says in Superman the Movie "I am sending you my only son."

 

[Lost In FL]

Not certain whether or not he existed.

Ok. This is your position. Jesus is the most documented person to ever have lived, yet you are "not certain whether or not he existed". Non-Christian historians from that timeframe wrote about Him. The Romans documented Him. Yet you have doubts. No point debating w you if you are unwilling or umable to view evidence and accept reality. (My opinion ... you dont Him to be real. You have your reasons.) Go read your comics instead.

And you have gotten very juvenile with your responses. That is why i deleted the rest of your condescending comment.

 

[Lost In FL]

In Superman the Jesus/Kal El parallels are strong. Jor El says in Superman the Movie "I am sending you my only son."

Which is not surprising, many hollywood "heroes" steal from the Jesus story of sacrifice. If the "hero" was a selfish sob, then there wouldnt be the (inspiring) parts of the movie that we love. SW steals from the idea too, in MANY ways.

Does that prove Jesus doesnt exist? Some ppl like cantfanohio thinks so.

 

[WildcatfaninOhio]

Ok. This is your position. Jesus is the most documented person to ever have lived, yet you are "not certain whether or not he existed". Non-Christian historians from that timeframe wrote about Him. The Romans documented Him. Yet you have doubts. No point debating w you if you are unwilling or umable to view evidence and accept reality. (My opinion ... you dont Him to be real. You have your reasons.) Go read your comics instead.

And you have gotten very juvenile with your responses. That is why i deleted the rest of your condescending comment.

Jesus is most documented person/character that has ever been written about. Superman is likely a close second. I’d guess that Mickey Mouse isn’t too far behind those two. What does this prove?

I chuckled when you pointed out that I was being juvenile and condescending, just a few posts after calling me “princess”. 😆

 

[Lost In FL]

Jesus is most documented person/character that has ever been written about. Superman is likely a close second. I’d guess that Mickey Mouse isn’t too far behind those two. What does this prove?

I chuckled when you pointed out that I was being juvenile and condescending, just a few posts after calling me “princess”. 😆

Don't dish it if you can't take it. Would "queen" be more appropriate?

Do any of the authors claim to be eyewitnesses of stuporman or MM? Did they claim to observe any miracles? Did they DIE for their claims? No, they don't and no they didn't.

Your analogy is childish and quite disrespectful. Your condescension has dripped the entire thread. i called you on it and you tried to back out of it with a silly statement (aka, a lie). So, yep, I often will treat people the way they treat me.

You could develop a rational argument that Jesus was a real historical figure but was not the Son of God. But to deny Jesus actually lived is stupid. You probably do not realize non-Christian historians also document Jesus, his ministry, his death and several other aspects of the NT.

 

[Lost In FL]

1,000+ editions of the Superman comics since the 30s. Proof that Superman is real.

Also, are you saying that people from different timeframes, that never met, wrote about the SAME comic book character?

Again, your "analogy" is childish and wholly inadequate. But you cling to beliefs (despite contrary evidence).

 

[WildcatfaninOhio]

But you cling to beliefs (despite contrary evidence).

I cling to disbelief (despite contrary claims).

 

[MadaboutBlue]

66 Books by 39 authors written over thousands of years in different parts of the world, all having the same, consistent message.

Guess it just happens randomly.

Except no one knows exactly how many authors there actually were, who those authors were, and when they were wrote the various books. That some of the Pauline epistles were written around 50 AD or so, and some of the Old Testament prophets might have written the books attributed to the was more or less accepted by most Biblical scholars, but after that, it gets murkier.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Don't dish it if you can't take it. Would "queen" be more appropriate?

Do any of the authors claim to be eyewitnesses of stuporman or MM? Did they claim to observe any miracles? Did they DIE for their claims? No, they don't and no they didn't.

Your analogy is childish and quite disrespectful. Your condescension has dripped the entire thread. i called you on it and you tried to back out of it with a silly statement (aka, a lie). So, yep, I often will treat people the way they treat me.

You could develop a rational argument that Jesus was a real historical figure but was not the Son of God. But to deny Jesus actually lived is stupid. You probably do not realize non-Christian historians also document Jesus, his ministry, his death and several other aspects of the NT.

Ohio is actually being much better in this thread than he has been in other religion threads. He is an agnostic who has it all figured out. 😜

 

[Lost In FL]

I cling to ignorance (despite contrary claims).

Good job responding to the point of my post and question. Move the goal post ...

Also, fixed your post. Ur welcome.

 

[WildcatfaninOhio]

Good job responding to the point of my post and question. Move the goal post ...

Also, fixed your post. Ur welcome.

Jesus Christ, dude! Did you seriously just accuse me of clinging to ignorance?

😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆

 

[mcnicKY91]

So has anyone changed their mind?

It's moreso about hearts changing than minds changing. Generally speaking, there are hundreds of millions of people across the world that know God exists...but they don't want to follow and submit their lives to Him. More of a heart condition than mind condition.

I would say this...if people are fortunate enough to make it to their death bed (assuming you don't die suddenly), I would venture to say those people don't look back at their life and celebrate all the people they have slept with, or how many times they got hammered/wasted, or how many deals they closed to get that extra bonus...they are thinking about what was the purpose of their life. In my mind, if God doesn't exist, life is pointless.

I can only imagine the looks of despair on their faces when they look back at their life, and all they have to show for it is a high body count, or a defective liver, or a crap ton of money that ain't coming with them. What a hollow feeling in my opinion.

 

[christophero]

That's a very cynical take. You could also look back at your family, friends, and lives you have touched. Not every non Christian is a money grubbing alcoholic lol. To say a life needs God to have purpose is a little strange. Maybe yours does.

 

[Ron Mehico]

It's moreso about hearts changing than minds changing. Generally speaking, there are hundreds of millions of people across the world that know God exists...but they don't want to follow and submit their lives to Him. More of a heart condition than mind condition.

I would say this...if people are fortunate enough to make it to their death bed (assuming you don't die suddenly), I would venture to say those people don't look back at their life and celebrate all the people they have slept with, or how many times they got hammered/wasted, or how many deals they closed to get that extra bonus...they are thinking about what was the purpose of their life. In my mind, if God doesn't exist, life is pointless.

I can only imagine the looks of the despair on their faces when they look back at their life, and all they have to show for it is a high body count, or a defective liver, or a crap ton of money that ain't coming with them. What a hollow feeling in my opinion.

I would imagine most people will probably think about the relationships with people they had and family (wife, kids, parents, etc). I mean it’s not like you can’t be a clean living humble atheist with a loving family. Just my opinion of course.

 

[mcnicKY91]

That's a very cynical take. You could also look back at your family, friends, and lives you have touched. Not every non Christian is a money grubbing alcoholic lol.

That's fine. But what will that do for you when you are dead?

 

[mcnicKY91]

I would imagine most people will probably think about the relationships with people they had and family (wife, kids, parents, etc). I mean it’s not like you can’t be a clean living humble atheist with a loving family. Just my opinion of course.

That's perfectly fine. But like I said to the other poster, how will that help you when you are dead? We develop all these relationships, and then die? That's it? Seems beyond pointless.

 

[christophero]

Maybe life is pointless. Who said it has to have a point? A zebra doesn't search for meaning. He's just living his life best he can. You think having a loving mate, having kids and helping others is pointless?

 

[Ron Mehico]

That's perfectly fine. But like I said to the other poster, how will that help you when you are dead? We develop all these relationships, and then die? That's it? Seems beyond pointless.

Some people are fine saying they don’t really know the answer to your questions, are trying to live the best life they can, and are going to try and live it to the fullest and make it as rich as possible. Basically just doing the best to control what they can. Just my take anyway. Seems better than being a drunk with money or whatever it was you were talking about?

 

[mcnicKY91]

Maybe life is pointless. Who said it has to have a point? A zebra doesn't search for meaning. He's just living his life best he can. You think having a loving mate, having kids and helping others is pointless?

If you take that viewpoint, that life is pointless, then that inherently means nobody has any value. If we have no value and no point, morality goes out the window. I can just say, I want to kill this person, and then would be perfectly justified in doing so, because they have no value.

If there is no God, then yes, having a loving mate or developing any other relationship is pointless. Again, what will that do for you when you are dead, what will it do for all the other people that had a relationship with you when they are dead?

 

[christophero]

Do you really need the Bible to tell you killing people is wrong? Are you an ex serial killer? (I'm joking)

 

[mcnicKY91]

Some people are fine saying they don’t really know the answer to your questions, are trying to live the best life they can, and are going to try and live it to the fullest and make it as rich as possible. Basically just doing the best to control what they can. Just my take anyway. Seems better than being a drunk with money or whatever it was you were talking about?

I get what you are saying. Just feels beyond empty and hollow to me.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Maybe life is pointless. Who said it has to have a point? A zebra doesn't search for meaning. He's just living his life best he can. You think having a loving mate, having kids and helping others is pointless?

Life has no universal objective point for an atheist. In your short time here, you can manufacture a point that appeals to you, but that point has no real meaning, especially after you are dead. And, your point, objectively speaking, is no better than anyone else’s point, including those of theists. It seems kind of sad, however, that people living admittedly pointless lives would spend any moment debating God with Christians. But, then again, your subjective point is no better or worse than anyone else’s. So, it is what it is.

 

[mcnicKY91]

I grew up in the church and that's something you hear a lot. Non Christians are like Ebenezer Scrooge or worse. And do you really need the Bible to tell you killing people is wrong? Are you an ex serial killer? (I'm joking)

Haha. I know you are joking, the parenthetical assurance was not needed.

No, if one were to remove thou shall not murder from the Bible, we would still have an objective morality hardwired in our consciousness from God.

Take God out of the equation, then objective morality gets taken out of the equation. Everything inherently becomes subjective (which we are seeing more and more of everyday, Truth has become everybody's own truth). That becomes a very, very scary thought.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Do you really need the Bible to tell you killing people is wrong? Are you an ex serial killer? (I'm joking)

If life has no point, then, yeah, you probably are blessed to live in a culture that was founded on Judaeo-Christian values. You should thank the believers who changed the western world.

 

[Ron Mehico]

I get what you are saying. Just feels beyond empty and hollow to me.

Yup, I guess the differences of people is what makes things more interesting sometimes. Different strokes for different folks!