POLL: Is there a God ??

[Caveman Catfan]

I spell it that way because I’m puzzled by those that chose to “buy” all the bull**** that’s in it.

You do it to be mean and to bait. You claim a morality. Are we seeing it on display or do you save it for others?

 

[Caveman Catfan]

I like watching the “Closer To Truth” series YouTube videos that deal with many interesting and deep questions in a thoughtful way, much like many of the “good faith” exchanges in this thread. Here is one that has very balanced perspectives, is well-done and thought-provoking, does not settle the issue, of course, but is enjoyable to watch and consider.

View embedded media

Closer to Truth - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

You like watching atheist apologists. It sheds light on why you brought this topic back in this thread.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

I think this is pretty silly. There are people that want to unravel mysteries of the world that are religious and not religious. Not every religious person is a simple minded farmer and every atheist a Harvard trained PhD.

The hardest thing about being an atheist is you want believers to be dumb and then you start reading the geniuses over the years who are Christian apologists. It’s tough to grapple with the fact that really smart people have rejected atheism. When you realize that, you have to find another reason to reject God.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

I find people very interesting sometimes. Esp those who have been spoon fed info their entire life, never depart from that info, will not process contrary information, yet think they are open minded. Ppl like that are fascinating.

Most believers have encountered the same doubts the atheists have expressed. That is evident through the thread. Maybe we were open minded enough to consider a differing viewpoint and actually follow where the evidence leads?. Just an idea.

I was an atheist or agnostic between the ages 18 and 35. Attempted to be a Christian my senior year in high school, but tossed it when I went to college. I was always respectful to the Christians who confronted my non-belief. I was interested in what they had to say. I don’t find the atheists in this thread very interesting. I am sure they would be more interesting in person.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

I can't speak for every atheist, but from the people I have talked to a lot of them want to believe in something. There is just no evidence. It's not like atheists are stubbornly digging their heels in despite overwhelming evidence. At least most I've spoken with. It does require a leap of faith to believe in any religion. Like there is an actual book of Mormon that exists. How do you know that is not the truth? You don't.

If there is truly no evidence, what does that say about the people you know who believe? Have you read CS Lewis, Tolkien, NT Wright, Tim Keller, Eugene Peterson, Dallas Willard, etc.? Why do these very smart people disagree if there is “no evidence?”

 

[LOL_Man]

What kind of places do you guys live where you are "confronted over your non-belief?"

Were they wearing arm bands as I've never in my life lived near the religious police? You'd be amazed at how refreshing it is to live and be around people that mind their own GD business.

 

[christophero]

One of the definitions of faith in the dictionary is "strong belief in God or in the doctrines of religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof." Anyone can believe whatever they want, but to claim there is proof or evidence is an interesting position to take. My dad has his Master's and is a believer. I asked him about it and he said "I choose to believe. It's a choice." I have total respect for that answer.

 

[megablue]

You like watching atheist apologists. It sheds light on why you brought this topic back in this thread.

Of course, that's a no-brainer. I was a believer for over forty (40) years, so there is nothing fresh for me to digest. I was very deeply into my religion, even considering the priesthood for a short while. Not to repeat myself from what I've shared previously, but I came to a reverse-epiphany (for lack of a better term) without listening to what you refer to as "atheist apologists" ... my ever-increasing doubt culminated in reaching my eventual conclusion on my own. On the reverse side of things, I imagine there are folks here who grew up agnostic and/or without religious teaching/exposure in their formative years ... in their journey, they would find religious folks far more interesting than non-believers ... of course.

Life is a path...

So is a path
--- Paul Kantner
This is a quote that resonated with me, when I saw PK post in reply to a poster's comment that "Life is a path" on PK's message board ... perhaps it best sums up my feelings in a very simple and succinct way.
At this point in my life, after what I think has been thoughtful consideration, I just do not believe in believing ...

I brought up this thread because I find the topic of God, along with cosmology, physics, neuroscience, philosophy etc..., all very interesting and I only recently (after many years of being on this wrbsite) found out about The Paddock and thought it was very cool and decided to post the poll to see what the percentages might be and, hopefully, to engender an exchange of thoughts and ideas. As I stated when the poll closed, I am surprised the "No" votes were not in the 30%-35% range, which is what I anticipated, based on Pew Research polls I've seen. However, the discussion and participation have been very interesting and far-exceeded what I was expecting to see. I also posted a thread about "Free Will" and thought it would've have had more discussion than this thread. It did not.

Many people are interested in discussing and sharing ideas about deeper questions. I particularly enjoy it, much more than discussing sports, especially when I am introduced to fresh thoughts and ideas by both learned and lay folk. The mind is a terrible thing to waste, especially when you are getting into the alsheimers/dementia age range.

 

[Lost In FL]

I don’t recall claiming that anyone had a small brain. I didn’t sift thru all 21 pages of this topic thread. But I did re-read my posts from the previous 5 or 6 pages and I don’t see any mention of small brains. Perhaps you inferred that’s what I meant by some of my comments. I was likely trying to imply that perhaps religious people are gullible. But not small brained.

Page 1 or 2, def in first 5. You said it at least 3 times. I am not trying to come across wrong, just being factual.

Lets say you said it, even 3 times, does it change anything?

 

[Lost In FL]

One of the definitions of faith in the dictionary is "strong belief in God or in the doctrines of religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof." Anyone can believe whatever they want, but to claim there is proof or evidence is an interesting position to take. My dad has his Master's and is a believer. I asked him about it and he said "I choose to believe. It's a choice." I have total respect for that answer.

I agree. I would add that Most ppl havent been challenged by sjw atheists who want to ruin our lives. So, they havent thought too deep on the subject. But they should have a quick recollection of why they believe, or not. I would prefer it include actual facts and some indication of skepticism before belief. But each person is different and it is personal..

 

[Lost In FL]

What kind of places do you guys live where you are "confronted over your non-belief?"

Were they wearing arm bands as I've never in my life lived near the religious police? You'd be amazed at how refreshing it is to live and be around people that mind their own GD business.

You see officer, I was on cats illustrated on thursday night. Some dude kept calling me small brained because i can look at creation and see evidence of a Creator. But he kept saying i worshiped an invisible man in the sky. Eventually, he had to go because the little aliens he believes in called him to his room for goat worship or something...

 

[Lost In FL]

“God” (thousands of them across various cultures and time periods) was created in the tiny brains of ancient men when they didn’t/couldn’t understand a damn thing. Lightning, floods, volcanos, thunder, swarms of locusts, solar eclipse, or anything unusual or scary. Their god made it happen.

No, there’s no such thing as a god, nor gods, nor goddesses.

1

 

[Lost In FL]

I deny the existence of the christian god as described in the buybull, the same as you deny the existence of the Norse god Oden, the Egyptian god Ra, the Greek god Zeus, and the Aztec god Quetzalcoatl. Mythology is mythology. And there is no evidence of any of those mythical, fictional characters. Except for the man-made tales from men that didn’t understand where the sun went at night.

2, not exact words, but same meaning.

 

[Lost In FL]

You forgot sociopathic genocidal murderer. And not very bright. He (supposedly) saved a 600 year old man and his family, and murdered all the other humans on the planet because he made them defective. Then he (supposedly) repopulated the earth from the same breeding stock, the family (must have been some incest in there), and he expected a different outcome.

3

 

[Lost In FL]

Their imagination.

To fill in answers to their questions, before man had scientific answers.

When their brains were too limited to understand the scary things around them.

When ancient people had the understanding of today’s 4 year olds, lightning and thunder were very scary. And unexplainable. And thunder and lightning came from the sky. So “obviously” there must be a very angry man up there somewhere. And he’s angry because of something they did. Voila! A god did it. And the stories unfolded from there.

4? Not trying to be a jerk, just showing what i was referring to.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Of course, that's a no-brainer. I was a believer for over forty (40) years, so there is nothing fresh for me to digest. I was very deeply into my religion, even considering the priesthood for a short while. Not to repeat myself from what I've shared previously, but I came to a reverse-epiphany (for lack of a better term) without listening to what you refer to as "atheist apologists" ... my ever-increasing doubt culminated in reaching my eventual conclusion on my own. On the reverse side of things, I imagine there are folks here who grew up agnostic and/or without religious teaching/exposure in their formative years ... in their journey, they would find religious folks far more interesting than non-believers ... of course.

Life is a path...

So is a path
--- Paul Kantner
This is a quote that resonated with me, when I saw PK post in reply to a poster's comment that "Life is a path" on PK's message board ... perhaps it best sums up my feelings in a very simple and succinct way.
At this point in my life, after what I think has been thoughtful consideration, I just do not believe in believing ...

I brought up this thread because I find the topic of God, along with cosmology, physics, neuroscience, philosophy etc..., all very interesting and I only recently (after many years of being on this board) found out about The Paddock and thought it was very cool and decided to post the poll to see what the percentages might be and, hopefully, to engender an exchange of thoughts and ideas. As I stated when the poll closed, I am surprised the "No" votes were not in the 30%-35% range, which is what I anticipated, based on Pew Research polls I've seen. However, the discussion and participation have been very interesting and far-exceeded what I was expecting to see. I also posted a thread about "Free Will" and thought it would've have had more discussion than this thread. It did not.

Many people are interested in discussing and sharing ideas about deeper questions. I particularly enjoy it, much more than discussing sports, especially when I am introduced to fresh thoughts and ideas by both learned and lay folk. The mind is a terrible thing to waste, especially when you are getting into the alsheimers/dementia age range.

And, yet you really don’t discuss the tough questions posed to atheists. It’s not really a discussion you want.

 

[Lost In FL]

A thought that I've always had and wondered about, that is FUN and interesting to think about is:

Assume Jesus never came 2000 years ago, but was born in the year 2000.
How would he accomplish his mission here on earth ??

With all the modernity in the world, it is an interesting thought experiment to wonder how he would make himself and his message known to everyone on the planet.

Where would he have been born ??
What would his birth certificate look like ??
Who would his parents be and how old would they be ??
What would his DNA say about his humanity ??
What would his race be ??
What would his childhood have been like ??
Would he have played sports and been any good ??
What music would he like ??
Would he have any favorite sports teams ??
Would he smoke weed and drink whiskey ??
Would he have tattoos ??
Would he be unbeatable in chess ??
Would he date anybody and/or get married ??
What would his day job be ??
Would he already have been on 60 Minutes ??
Would he have twitter and facebook accounts ??
What would his message be ??
What comments would he make about all the issues that mankind and the world are struggling with ??
What would his answers be to all the deep questions ??
Would he work miracles that could be scientifically-tested and documented for the entire world to see ??
Would he be so obviously convincing that the entire world would abandon their beliefs and follow him ??
Would he remove all doubt about God and answer the questions regarding an afterlife ??
Would he explicitly, flat-out, state that he is God, as he would surely be asked ??
Would he die for the sins of mankind, or simply just forgive them ?? If so, how would he die ??
Would he rise from the grave, as the ultimate mind-blowing, well-documented miracle ??
Would he ascend into heaven ... and tell us where heaven actually is ??

I'm sure you can think of many other things that would be interesting and different about Jesus (or whatever his name might be), if he came to be earth in the year 2000. The questions and possibilities are endless ...

He wouldve been born in bethlehem. He would have fulfilled the other 300ish prophecies that he fulfilled too.
He would have died.
He wouldve been pierced and his legs unbroken.
They wouldve gambled to see who keeps his garments.
He would have risen on the 3rd day.
Etc.

 

[megablue]

And, yet you really don’t discuss the tough questions posed to atheists. It’s not really a discussion you want.

What questions are you referring to ??
I feel like I will discuss any question that I have an opinion on, or have knowledge about. Maybe I have been directly asked a question and did not respond, but I do not recall doing so. If you possibly may be talking about investigating religions other than Christian as a pathway to belief in a supreme being, I will tell you that I’ve not done that. In that regard, I have been lazy and negligent … no question about it.

 

[megablue]

He wouldve been born in bethlehem. He would have fulfilled the other 300ish prophecies that he fulfilled too.
He would have died.
He wouldve been pierced and his legs unbroken.
They wouldve gambled to see who keeps his garments.
He would have risen on the 3rd day.
Etc.

I understand the essence of what you are saying, for sure. I was more curious about things like how he would make himself known to the world in this day and age, in fulfillment of the prophecies you mentioned ?? No doubt, he would do so. That would be why he came.

Would his miracles and preachings be filmed by cellphone and broadcast through social media around the world … just an example of the kind of thing I’m talking about. Would he be publicly answering questions about his origin and the origin of the world ?? How would he be accepted by today’s Jewish community ?? Regards his death, to your point, who would kill him and where ?? How would his resurrection become known and documented ?? What would the religious make-up of the world be, upon his arrival ?? What would his position be on the tough issues of the day ?? How would he become known throughout the world ?? Etc …

Like I said … just a thought experiment.
I was not trying to make any point or argue any case, other than to be curious about what a modern day Jesus would actually be like … how well would he be received by today’s modern world … how popular would he become during his lifetime, etc … ??? For myself, as a non-believer, I wonder if/how I would respond to news reports and however it was that he got his word out ??

 

[ukalum1988]

“Give thanks to the Lord, for He is good; his mercy endures forever.”

Curious if anyone’s mind has been changed after 21+ pages of this thread(?). I seriously doubt it.

 

[Lost In FL]

I understand the essence of what you are saying, for sure. I was more curious about things like how he would make himself known to the world in this day and age, in fulfillment of the prophecies you mentioned ?? No doubt, he would do so. That would be why he came.

Would his miracles and preachings be filmed by cellphone and broadcast through social media around the world … just an example of the kind of thing I’m talking about. Would he be publicly answering questions about his origin and the origin of the world ?? How would he be accepted by today’s Jewish community ?? Regards his death, to your point, who would kill him and where ?? How would his resurrection become known and documented ?? What would the religious make-up of the world be, upon his arrival ?? What would his position be on the tough issues of the day ?? How would he become known throughout the world ?? Etc …

Like I said … just a thought experiment.
I was not trying to make any point or argue any case, other than to be curious about what a modern day Jesus would actually be like … how well would he be received by today’s modern world … how popular would he become during his lifetime, etc … ??? For myself, as a non-believer, I wonder if/how I would respond to news reports and however it was that he got his word out ??

I get what you were saying. I think modern devices would change how info spread. It is a really neat thought exercise.

But, nearly 300 things would stay the same, right. He would be Jewish. Born of a virgin, etc. It would be amazing to see those things happen today.

But a lot of it likely wouldnt spread as much as we think it should ... social media would call it "mis info" and ban it, etc.

 

[Lost In FL]

“Give thanks to the Lord, for He is good; his mercy endures forever.”

Curious if anyone’s mind has been changed after 21+ pages of this thread(?). I seriously doubt it.

The only "change" in my mindset is that after reading the atheist/agnostic argument, i am even more convinced there is a Creator. Their arguments basically fell into 2 camps: "i dont want there to be a God, bc i am my god" and 2, "i dont understand, therefore i dont want to believe"
I find these arguments completely unsatisfying and lacking in sincere contemplation and self-reflection. That is my opinion/evaluation of their arguments against.

 

[megablue]

I get what you were saying. I think modern devices would change how info spread. It is a really neat thought exercise.

But, nearly 300 things would stay the same, right. He would be Jewish. Born of a virgin, etc. It would be amazing to see those things happen today.

But a lot of it likely wouldnt spread as much as we think it should ... social media would call it "mis info" and ban it, etc.

There would still be some skeptics, but if he had all the answers in the deep interviews and researchers could document proof of his miracles and resurrection, I suspect much of the world would be convinced of his deity and the evidence that many (certainly including myself) are waiting and searching for. Thanks for the reply.

 

[Lost In FL]

Every building is evidence of a builder. You never met him. He may have lived a hundred years ago. But that building is evidence the builder was here. Every painting is evidence of a painter. He may have lived three hundred years ago but we know there was a painter. Buildings don't build themselves and paintings don't paint themselves. I look at creation and see undeniable evidence of a Creator.

 

[WildcatfaninOhio]

4? Not trying to be a jerk, just showing what i was referring to.

OK, yes, of course I remember those.

When you accused me of saying that xians had tiny brains, I those you meant I said that about you and others in this thread. I've tried hard to keep the conversation civil, with no personal attacks. Unlike one guy that made it personal against me. I clearly was talking about the ancient, uneducated, tiny-brained men that wrote down absurdities long, long ago. And the xian god of the bible, which is not a very bright character.

 

[WildcatfaninOhio]

The only "change" in my mindset is that after reading the atheist/agnostic argument, i am even more convinced there is a Creator. Their arguments basically fell into 2 camps: "i dont want there to be a God, bc i am my god" and 2, "i dont understand, therefore i dont want to believe"
I find these arguments completely unsatisfying and lacking in sincere contemplation and self-reflection. That is my opinion/evaluation of their arguments against.

Your 1 and 2 don't fit me at all.

Put me in a 3rd camp. "The stories about, and descriptions of, all the gods and goddesses through man's history are too absurd to believe. Therefore, I reject them all as absurdities that are untrue. Further, as I've stated previously, if there were one god, one holy book, and one religion, perhaps it would be easier to buy into. But since there are thousands of gods, and hundreds of religions, they can not all be true. Therefore, I conclude that they are all false.

 

[thebluestripes]

For the non believing crowd, I'd suggest you guys go check out the movie neferious. Actually I'd suggest that everyone check the movie out.
It will really make you think

 

[Lost In FL]

There would still be some skeptics, but if he had all the answers in the deep interviews and researchers could document proof of his miracles and resurrection, I suspect much of the world would be convinced of his deity and the evidence that many (certainly including myself) are waiting and searching for. Thanks for the reply.

You bet. Not trying to turn this political, and only mention this for example sake. Look at the pandemic and subsequent shots. Contrary interviews, evidence, etc. was out there, but it was removed, shadowbanned, etc. People were "removed from the public square" for showing dissenting facts. A young Jesus would experience the exact same thing.

What i find fascinating is how the antichrist will use this exact same tech, but it will be pushed everywhere. And by push, i dont mean "gentle nudge" or "encouraged" lol. How we will not be able to buy or sell without some sort of mark (understand the Revelation was written by a 1st century man trying to describe what he saw with the language he had at the time.) Shoot, we were almost there w "passports". (My opinion...based off what i saw during the past couple of yrs)

 

[Lost In FL]

Your 1 and 2 don't fit me at all.

Put me in a 3rd camp. "The stories about, and descriptions of, all the gods and goddesses through man's history are too absurd to believe. Therefore, I reject them all as absurdities that are untrue. Further, as I've stated previously, if there were one god, one holy book, and one religion, perhaps it would be easier to buy into. But since there are thousands of gods, and hundreds of religions, they can not all be true. Therefore, I conclude that they are all false.

Respectfully disagree a bit. I think you may be a bit 1 and 2. You offered many self-worship statements. Now, am i too inclusive in my 2 categories? Maybe. Fair. (It is a chat board categorization and not thesis bound, for sure.)

As i said before, as a non-believer, you believe everything came from nothing and was caused for no reason. In my opinion, and with all due respect, that position is absurd.

 

[Lost In FL]

OK, yes, of course I remember those.

When you accused me of saying that xians had tiny brains, I those you meant I said that about you and others in this thread. I've tried hard to keep the conversation civil, with no personal attacks. Unlike one guy that made it personal against me. I clearly was talking about the ancient, uneducated, tiny-brained men that wrote down absurdities long, long ago. And the xian god of the bible, which is not a very bright character.

Understand, but you guys on the humanism side, clearly think of us as dolts, lesser, uninterested, uncapable, weak rubes.

We are both trying hard to keep it civil. TY for that.

 

[ukdesi]

The only "change" in my mindset is that after reading the atheist/agnostic argument, i am even more convinced there is a Creator. Their arguments basically fell into 2 camps: "i dont want there to be a God, bc i am my god" and 2, "i dont understand, therefore i dont want to believe"
I find these arguments completely unsatisfying and lacking in sincere contemplation and self-reflection. That is my opinion/evaluation of their arguments against.

#2 -- I don't understand, but lack of understanding doesn't say anything about the existence of a God;

I personally don't see evidence for a God, but I find the concept so abstract that I'm not willing to reduce it down to a black/white human construct of God exists or not -- its just something beyond my comprehension.

 

[WildcatfaninOhio]

Respectfully disagree a bit. I think you may be a bit 1 and 2. You offered many self-worship statements. Now, am i too inclusive in my 2 categories? Maybe. Fair. (It is a chat board categorization and not thesis bound, for sure.)

As i said before, as a non-believer, you believe everything came from nothing and was caused for no reason. In my opinion, and with all due respect, that position is absurd.

Also respectfully, your camp 1 - "i dont want there to be a God, bc i am my god"

I've never stated, nor thought, that I don't want there to be a god. I simply think that there isn't one. And I've certainly never wanted to be a god. Not even sure how one wants to be their own god. How does that work?

Your camp 2 - "i dont understand, therefore i dont want to believe"

For me, I don't buy into the absurdities of religious tales, therefore I don't believe them. I view them as fiction, not fact.

Mt positions are far, far different than how you described them in your "2 camps".

 

[WildcatfaninOhio]

Understand, but you guys on the humanism side, clearly think of us as dolts, lesser, uninterested, uncapable, weak rubes.

We are both trying hard to keep it civil. TY for that.

Once again....never said any of that. Modern man, for the most part, is far more educated and intelligent than those from 2,000 years ago. I'm sure you are a bright guy. I simply think that you have been groomed as a christian to believe the stories. You are a product of your upbringing.

We are all born without language. We are a blank slate. We are taught, by our parents and others, the English language. Had you beed born in a different time and place, you would have been taught a different language. Same thing happens with religion. We are all born atheists. Also a blank slate. We are then groomed by our parents and others to believe the region of our time and place.

I would never claim that you are somehow a lesser human due to the language that you were taught. Similarly, I would never think that about you due to the religion that you were taught.

 

[Lost In FL]

For the non believing crowd, I'd suggest you guys go check out the movie neferious. Actually I'd suggest that everyone check the movie out.
It will really make you think

Looked it up on imdb. Wow. (And so par for the course, the critics vs the viewer comments. Judging by those alone, it must be great.)

 

[Lost In FL]

Once again....never said any of that. Modern man, for the most part, is far more educated and intelligent than those from 2,000 years ago. I'm sure you are a bright guy. I simply think that you have been groomed as a christian to believe the stories. You are a product of your upbringing.

We are all born without language. We are a blank slate. We are taught, by our parents and others, the English language. Had you beed born in a different time and place, you would have been taught a different language. Same thing happens with religion. We are all born atheists. Also a blank slate. We are then groomed by our parents and others to believe the region of our time and place.

I would never claim that you are somehow a lesser human due to the language that you were taught. Similarly, I would never think that about you due to the religion that you were taught.

Ok. I will quibble with one statement ... we are more "educated", but not more "intelligent". I see, and converse, with a ton of "smart, stupid" or "stupid smart" folks every day. (Whichever way you would prefer to say it.)

You have made assumptions on how i was raised. I suspect most of them are wrong. Esp the grooming part.

 

[Lost In FL]

#2 -- I don't understand, but lack of understanding doesn't say anything about the existence of a God;

I personally don't see evidence for a God, but I find the concept so abstract that I'm not willing to reduce it down to a black/white human construct of God exists or not -- its just something beyond my comprehension.

Peace.

Help me understand the black/white comment. Either God exists or He doesnt. (Same comment for you and me - either we are or we are not lol.) Either we were created, or we were not. Those are not abstract, for sure. What other options are there for either/or questions?

Not trying to attack you.

Whether you understand or not doesnt change the existence of God. (And point that back at me too ... just because i believe doesnt change whether He exists or not.) I think that is what your 1st paragraph means?

 

[Lost In FL]

Also respectfully, your camp 1 - "i dont want there to be a God, bc i am my god"

I've never stated, nor thought, that I don't want there to be a god. I simply think that there isn't one. And I've certainly never wanted to be a god. Not even sure how one wants to be their own god. How does that work?

Shortened for chat board ... there are many books on this alone. People want to make their own rules. We all do it to some extent.

Your camp 2 - "i dont understand, therefore i dont want to believe"

For me, I don't buy into the absurdities of religious tales, therefore I don't believe them. I view them as fiction, not fact.

There are educated and experienced ppl that do not see them as absurd. Maybe this should change to: "i have a different understanding, therefore...". Is that more fair?

Mt positions are far, far different than how you described them in your "2 camps".

I personally would categorize your position as "subsets" to the 2 i mentioned. And anyone can disagree, that is ok.

Just internet chat.

 

[WildcatfaninOhio]

Ok. I will quibble with one statement ... we are more "educated", but not more "intelligent". I see, and converse, with a ton of "smart, stupid" or "stupid smart" folks every day. (Whichever way you would prefer to say it.)

You have made assumptions on how i was raised. I suspect most of them are wrong. Esp the grooming part.

Yes, I have made assumptions. One being that since you were born and raised in a country where 60+% of people identify as Christian, it is not surprising that you are also Christian. Had you been born and raised in, say, Tehran, you would most certainly NOT be Christian.

I admit to these assumptions.

 

[Lost In FL]

Yes, I have made assumptions. One being that since you were born and raised in a country where 60+% of people identify as Christian, it is not surprising that you are also Christian. Had you been born and raised in, say, Tehran, you would most certainly NOT be Christian.

I admit to these assumptions.

One of my best friends said the exact same thing to me!! (you don't live in FL do you lol?) My response is 2-fold: 1. Jesus never lived in the US as far as I can tell, so living in the US is pretty irrelevant IMO. But I get the 60% comment. I get it. 2. I would hope that that I'd look through the religious claims through historical context and prophetical accuracy. Both drive me back to where I am. So where i started, or didn't start, is a red herring to me. [EDIT: i forgot the 3rd thing (duh) ... he is an atheist. So my comment back to him ... you grew up in a mostly Judeo-Christian nation, yet don't believe in God or Christ. So, you disprove your own assumption (that's what i said to him)]

Do you agree with my other assertion in that post? Regarding stupid-smart people?

 

[ukdesi]

Peace.

Help me understand the black/white comment. Either God exists or He doesnt. (Same comment for you and me - either we are or we are not lol.) Either we were created, or we were not. Those are not abstract, for sure. What other options are there for either/or questions?

Not trying to attack you.

Whether you understand or not doesnt change the existence of God. (And point that back at me too ... just because i believe doesnt change whether He exists or not.) I think that is what your 1st paragraph means?

Hello

We are physical beings -- our existence is black or white I agree. Same with everything else on this earth. God does not have a physical form though --it's an abstract idea, therefore I'm not sure that I can apply the rules to God in the same way I do to matter on earth. Furthermore, if God's existence is a black/white topic, then we can ask who created God, and this line of questioning can go on endlessly.

Regarding my lack of understanding -- I agree it doesn't change the existence of God (or lack thereof). But it's not that I don't want to believe-- I just don't find the evidence compelling to do so, and so then my stance is one of ignorance -- I don't know the truth and it is beyond my comprehension.