POLITICAL THREAD

[Bill Derington]

I just had back surgery, beforehand I was doing a lot research on it. Reading online from people that had the same procedure. I went to 2 sites that were visited by many British patients. The number of people that decided to just pay out of pocket to skip the months of waiting for surgery was rather astonishing to me. Apparently if you pay for the surgery you can get it quick, but if you use the govt program the wait time is forever.
That does not sound like a good health plan to me, and certainly not better than what we have now. It appeared that if you're wealthy you get surgery quick, if you're poor well you just suffer until a spot opens up.

 

[Deeeefense]

Below is some excerpts from an article comparing some reason shy Brits are healthier than Americans. I will preface that it was also noted they believed universal health care helped.

-- The USA has a bigger obesity/overweight problem than the UK does. The obesity/overweight problem has been present in the USA for longer than in the UK.
-- The British are more physically active than the Americans. People walk and cycle more in Britain than in America. The British also use public transport more.
-- Americans eat more junk food than the British do.

--Americans are more stressed than the British.

This was just the British. If you have been overseas and have been around Europeans in general you would find that this is the norm in Europe. Plus, most of these countries have fresh markets where a lot of them buy food daily or every other day to prepare their daily meals. We do not have a lot of this in the States. However, if you look at the most healthiest cities in America, you will find similarities to what is posted above about diet and exercise. In other words FUZZ, GET OFF OF YOUR FAT ASS.

This is true. My brother lived in Paris for several years. There people think nothing of walking 2 or 3 miles to a grocery store. Here in the US, lards drive the cars two or three blocks and then drive around the grocery store parking lot 10 times trying to find a place 20 feet closer than the one that's already available.

He also told me when French tourists visit the US they are shocked to see the number of super obese people - I'm talking about the 350 pound plus buffet queens.

 

[Bill Cosby]

Is it a mental disability that makes people think the US Federal Government will actually be able to make health care better in the United States? I really just don't get it.

Literally any alphabet soup organization you want to list is a bloated, political, inefficient failure of an organization. Yet people still want to come up with more Federal organizations with more power.

I really just don't understand the thought process.

 

[Deeeefense]

I just had back surgery, beforehand I was doing a lot research on it. Reading online from people that had the same procedure. I went to 2 sites that were visited by many British patients. The number of people that decided to just pay out of pocket to skip the months of waiting for surgery was rather astonishing to me. Apparently if you pay for the surgery you can get it quick, but if you use the govt program the wait time is forever.
That does not sound like a good health plan to me, and certainly not better than what we have now. It appeared that if you're wealthy you get surgery quick, if you're poor well you just suffer until a spot opens up.

So give fewer people access to health care becasue the docs are too busy? How about increasing the number of docs instead, or using nurse practitioners for the every day stuff?

 

[warrior-cat]

Europe drinks more than pretty much any place in the world. Much less the U.S. Hell, we drink less than Canada does.

Europe outpaces us in alcohol consumption, alcoholism, alcohol-related death, and all-cause liver cirrhosis.

Surprisingly, countries like Greece and Italy don't drink a ton. Germany, Austria, ALL of Eastern Europe, and France are absolute drunkards.

Austria and Germany: Beer. France: Wine and liquer. OK can agree with that since I have been there but, they still eat better and are healthier.

 

[jamo0001]

Just got back from France, a few observations:

They walk/bike ALOT more than we do. Even in the rain without umbrellas.
They smoke more.
They drink more.
They eat sensible, much smaller potions; tiny compared to here. Restaurant portions here are easily 2x a typical French restaurant portion.
They eat better foods; less processed crap, lots more fish, fruit and vegetables.

You'd be hard pressed to find a fat Frenchman; in fact, that's how you can tell the Americans from the French.

TBH, though, you can go to communist cities like NYC and SF and tell the tourists from the natives based on the same principle haha

 

[warrior-cat]

TBH, though, you can go to communist cities like NYC and SF and tell the tourists from the natives based on the same principle haha

In Russia, they don't laugh they just go funny. An old Robin Williams joke.

 

[fuzz77]

I just had back surgery, beforehand I was doing a lot research on it. Reading online from people that had the same procedure. I went to 2 sites that were visited by many British patients. The number of people that decided to just pay out of pocket to skip the months of waiting for surgery was rather astonishing to me. Apparently if you pay for the surgery you can get it quick, but if you use the govt program the wait time is forever.
That does not sound like a good health plan to me, and certainly not better than what we have now. It appeared that if you're wealthy you get surgery quick, if you're poor well you just suffer until a spot opens up.

So getting care, even if you must wait isn't better than not getting care at all? Wealth will always buy privlege, what's new?
Yes, people can have to wait for non emergency procedures...
Basic healthcare is a humanitarian need that shouldn't be denied to anyone anymore than you would deny someone water to drink. We don't want people with commutable diseases walking in our midst. I don't think most want others to needlessly suffer. I don't think basic healthcare should be seen as a profit center any more than your public utility. Gone are the utilitarian hospitals that served their function only to be replaced by the elaborate for-profit hospitals who buy up those older but still functional buildings, then close them down so that you are funneled into somewhere where they can charge exhorbinate fees driving healthcare costs even higher for us all. Why are hospitals spending millions of our healthcare dollars on advertising?
There will always be a place for for-profit medicine. There are plenty of women out there wanting boob jobs and other cosmetic surgeries.

 

[Bill Cosby]

Can we get a list of basic human needs and rights that I need to pay taxes to provide for people? TIA.

 

[Bill Derington]

Who isn't getting healthcare? No I don't think forcing people to pay for other people's health insurance is good plan to be honest with you.
Oh sure it sounds good, if you're poor or you're wealthy and can afford to pay out of pocket and have a guilty conscience.
But to the rest of the population who fall somewhere in between it sounds pretty shitty.
You don't think a public utility should make a profit? Who do you think pays for upkeep and maintenance of said utility that ensures reliability?
You take a lot of things you don't understand for granted my friend.

 

[warrior-cat]

commutable diseases? Do you get those from eating at community restaurants?

Just funnin Fuzz. Communicable.

 

[P19978]

You take a lot of things you don't understand for granted my friend.

The most accurate statement of the day.

 

[fuzz77]

commutable diseases? Do you get those from eating at community restaurants?

Just funnin Fuzz. Communicable.

auto spell correction sometimes bites you in the arse!

 

[AustinTXCat]

This is true. My brother lived in Paris for several years. There people think nothing of walking 2 or 3 miles to a grocery store. Here in the US, lards drive the cars two or three blocks and then drive around the grocery store parking lot 10 times trying to find a place 20 feet closer than the one that's already available.

He also told me when French tourists visit the US they are shocked to see the number of super obese people - I'm talking about the 350 pound plus buffet queens.

+1.

When my German relatives visit, they are shocked by our obesity and just unhealthy lifestyles here.

 

[VT/UK Rondo]

Wonder If getting shot or wrecking your car factors into life expectancy average? I would think we have a clear lead over most countries in this department

 

[Bill Derington]

So give fewer people access to health care becasue the docs are too busy? How about increasing the number of docs instead, or using nurse practitioners for the every day stuff?

They're doing that now defense. You can't make people be Drs or nurse pravtitioners, there's a shortage now.

You guys act like we can just wave a wand and everything is gonna be ok, everybody will get seen. It's going to bog down the healthcare we all get.
Which in turn will make it suffer. Then how long do you think poor and middle class people are going to be fine with rich people just bypassing them because they can pay for it? I can tell you it won't take long.
At some point when you start removing the necessity to work hard to enjoy the benefits that provides. Well, people are going to stop working hard or sacrificing to better themselves.
When you don't work you lose a sense of independence, and the freedom that gives a person. We're seeing that more and more these days.

 

[WayneDougan]

You Trump synthesizer, you.


Shocked anyone is taking this shitbag serious. Actually, I shouldn't be surprised. That's my problem.


Crossing finger for a positive cancer test everyday. Hopefully I get lucky.

I'm a single issue "close the border" voter. I'd vote for a ticket of Adolph Hitler and Joseph Stalin for that at this point. Everything other policy can be reversed; amnesty and citizenship are permanent.

 

[jamo0001]

Are we taking bets about whether this attack on a Chattanooga military office is courtesy of the Religion of Peace?

 

[WayneDougan]

I disagree. There is very little difference in the lifestyle of the average Canadian and US. The Brits eat just as poorly as Americans. The difference is they get better preventive care. If you never see a doctor you may not know you are diabetic, know your cholesterol is too high, know your blood pressure is too high... know you have one or more of many different ailments that can be treated or will encourage you to get off your ass and move so you don't become obese, convinces you to change your diet. None of those things happen in a vacuum, they are all inter-related.

I went to Calgary a few years ago and didn't see a fat person until the third day.

 

[Deeeefense]

They're doing that now defense. You can't make people be Drs or nurse pravtitioners, there's a shortage now.

I believe in the free enterprise system. IF there is more demand for a commodity or service then current supply, the supply vacuum will be filled by those wanting the opportunity.

Our country educates and then exports zillions of doctors a year from other countries that come here on student visas to get a great education and then are forced to leave because of our antiquated immigration laws. We don't have a doctor shortage problem, we have a political malfeasance problem with Congressional Republicans who refuse to deal with the immigration problem. We need these smart doctors and other professions to stay here not be forced to leave.

Ironically Donald Trump is now making their a$$es pay for their refusal to deal with a serious issue.

 

[Deeeefense]

Are we taking bets about whether this attack on a Chattanooga military office is courtesy of the Religion of Peace?

Don't know but I drove just a couple of miles past this area twice this morning going to/from the doctor. Didn't hear the news until after we got home at about 10:30 - I guess it happened right after that.

Pretty devastating when stuff like this happens so near to home.

 

[Bill Derington]

Dee, my wife is nurse practitioner, I can tell you with a 100% certainty that there is not a foreign dr problem. That's a bogus claim to try and force the immigration policy instead of enacting the laws on the books now. They want amnesty for those that came here illegally, that's it.
My wife's practice uses a dr from India to fill in for the office dr when he takes vacation. It's an oncology office, they tried to hire her, she doesn't want to work or live here, if a dr wants to come to the U.S. They get a visa that isn't the issue.

 

[Bill Cosby]

I believe in the free enterprise system.

LOL

 

[fuzz77]

Who isn't getting healthcare? No I don't think forcing people to pay for other people's health insurance is good plan to be honest with you.
Oh sure it sounds good, if you're poor or you're wealthy and can afford to pay out of pocket and have a guilty conscience.
But to the rest of the population who fall somewhere in between it sounds pretty shitty.
You don't think a public utility should make a profit? Who do you think pays for upkeep and maintenance of said utility that ensures reliability?
You take a lot of things you don't understand for granted my friend.

Bill, you're already paying for it.
Didn't say that public utilities shouldn't make profits...they can and do but they are not free to raise rates at their pleasure. If they decided to double rates tomorrow...there would be nothing you could do about it. Go off the grid or pay. Any unfettered capitalistic venture will seek to maximize profits. Maximizing profits will always price those at the bottom out of the market.
Utilities for the most part have a monopoly on their market. You can dig a well on your property or get it from your local utility. Same with electricity, natural gas. Do you really want the utility market testing to see what the market will bear?

 

[bigblueinsanity]

Below is some excerpts from an article comparing some reason shy Brits are healthier than Americans. I will preface that it was also noted they believed universal health care helped.

-- The USA has a bigger obesity/overweight problem than the UK does. The obesity/overweight problem has been present in the USA for longer than in the UK.
-- The British are more physically active than the Americans. People walk and cycle more in Britain than in America. The British also use public transport more.
-- Americans eat more junk food than the British do.

--Americans are more stressed than the British.

This was just the British. If you have been overseas and have been around Europeans in general you would find that this is the norm in Europe. Plus, most of these countries have fresh markets where a lot of them buy food daily or every other day to prepare their daily meals. We do not have a lot of this in the States. However, if you look at the most healthiest cities in America, you will find similarities to what is posted above about diet and exercise. In other words FUZZ, GET OFF OF YOUR FAT ASS.

Lifestyle choices kill americans. Idle lifestyle combined with terrible nutrition are a deadly combination. Anytime your out of the country, you can spot the americans right away.

The irony is, the US gives the average food stamp recipient way more money than needed per month, with no nutritional restrictions. So we pay for them to make awful lifestyle choices on the front end, then pay for their medical care for their awful lifestyle choices on teh back end.

Brilliant.

 

[bigblueinsanity]

Bill, you're already paying for it.
Didn't say that public utilities shouldn't make profits...they can and do but they are not free to raise rates at their pleasure. If they decided to double rates tomorrow...there would be nothing you could do about it. Go off the grid or pay. Any unfettered capitalistic venture will seek to maximize profits. Maximizing profits will always price those at the bottom out of the market.
Utilities for the most part have a monopoly on their market. You can dig a well on your property or get it from your local utility. Same with electricity, natural gas. Do you really want the utility market testing to see what the market will bear?

Terrible example. Each person pays their own electric bill (even if it is from handout money). A large portion of the populace has their healthcare paid for by others.

 

[Deeeefense]

Dee, my wife is nurse practitioner, I can tell you with a 100% certainty that there is not a foreign dr problem. That's a bogus claim to try and force the immigration policy instead of enacting the laws on the books now. They want amnesty for those that came here illegally, that's it.
My wife's practice uses a dr from India to fill in for the office dr when he takes vacation. It's an oncology office, they tried to hire her, she doesn't want to work or live here, if a dr wants to come to the U.S. They get a visa that isn't the issue.

Visa's have a time limit on them. All the foreign born doctors you see here had to go through immigration which can take many years becasue the process is so slow, the quotes too low etc.
So when a kid finishes his education here on a student visa he's done, he or she has to leave the country then which is stupid.

I think NPs like your wife should be utilized more and probably paid more too.

 

[Deeeefense]

Lifestyle choices kill americans. Idle lifestyle combined with terrible nutrition are a deadly combination. Anytime your out of the country, you can spot the americans right away.

The irony is, the US gives the average food stamp recipient way more money than needed per month, with no nutritional restrictions. So we pay for them to make awful lifestyle choices on the front end, then pay for their medical care for their awful lifestyle choices on teh back end.

Brilliant.

I think they get like $4.50 a day, but I agree that there should be some nutritional restrictions on what they use it for. I mean there were times in my life when I ate beans & taters 4 or 5 times a week and it didn't kill me

 

[Bill Derington]

Bill, you're already paying for it.
Didn't say that public utilities shouldn't make profits...they can and do but they are not free to raise rates at their pleasure. If they decided to double rates tomorrow...there would be nothing you could do about it. Go off the grid or pay. Any unfettered capitalistic venture will seek to maximize profits. Maximizing profits will always price those at the bottom out of the market.
Utilities for the most part have a monopoly on their market. You can dig a well on your property or get it from your local utility. Same with electricity, natural gas. Do you really want the utility market testing to see what the market will bear?

You can also make your own electricity and they have to purchase any you don't use from you.
But they have a monopoly because it's costs ALOT of money to make electricity and to keep up with environmental standards. That's where most of the new cost is coming from. Plus they must have a rolling reserve to replace a large portion if for some reason it trips. Where I work we have to have approx 3000 megawatts on standby, that can't be used except in emergency. I work at one of these plants, we still have maintenance, and monthly test runs, yearly outages and operation costs.
But if they hit go we must be up at full load within 15 minutes or the company gets a heavy fine.

 

[Bill Derington]

Visa's have a time limit on them. All the foreign born doctors you see here had to go through immigration which can take many years becasue the process is so slow, the quotes too low etc.
So when a kid finishes his education here on a student visa he's done, he or she has to leave the country then which is stupid.

I think NPs like your wife should be utilized more and probably paid more too.

They are used heavily as well as PA's. But I'm telling you there isn't a shortage of foreign Drs unless western Ky is an island upon itself. Because there's probably 30-40% in Paducah that are.

Now they're wanting to allow pharmacists to diagnose and treat routine sicknesses. Now I'm sure a pharmacist are capable people. But prescribing medicine might be out of they're job quals.
Just because more people have access to healthcare doesn't mean the overall level of care is better.

 

[Bill Derington]

What you guys are wanting is socialism, think about that for a minute.
If the govt is going to take care of you from to grave a large portion of the population loses any reason for bettering themselves and it always fails.

I can't believe that honest, hardworking Americans want that. Jesus Christ we were built on hardwork, determination, goals. What you're striving for wipes that out.

 

[jamo0001]

They are used heavily as well as PA's. But I'm telling you there isn't a shortage of foreign Drs unless western Ky is an island upon itself. Because there's probably 30-40% in Paducah that are.

Now they're wanting to allow pharmacists to diagnose and treat routine sicknesses. Now I'm sure a pharmacist are capable people. But prescribing medicine might be out of they're job quals.
Just because more people have access to healthcare doesn't mean the overall level of care is better.

Deciding which medication to use is not outside of a pharmacist's scope of practice. MDs rely on them quite often for that, actually
Diagnosis of a disease is, however, something that pharmacists usually aren't comfortable doing.

 

[Deeeefense]

What you guys are wanting is socialism, think about that for a minute.
If the govt is going to take care of you from to grave a large portion of the population loses any reason for bettering themselves and it always fails.

I can't believe that honest, hardworking Americans want that. Jesus Christ we were built on hardwork, determination, goals. What you're striving for wipes that out.

If universal health care is you definition of socialism then every industrialized country in the world is socialistic.

The whole idea behind any type of insurance is shared risk be it government or private sector insurance. I'm all for hard work, I've done my share of it over the course but believe me there are a ton of very smart hard working people that have wound up bankrupt through no fault of their own because for whatever reason they did not have access to some sort of health insurance or the insurance they had was sorely inadequate (pre ACA type) when a catastrophic illness or injury hit their family. No one is immune to it.

I don't understand why some folks think the only people that every benefit from any public law or program are lazy people. The lazy make up a small minority of those getting feebies without work.

 

[WayneDougan]

If universal health care is you definition of socialism then every industrialized country in the world is socialistic.

The whole idea behind any type of insurance is shared risk be it government or private sector insurance. I'm all for hard work, I've done my share of it over the course but believe me there are a ton of very smart hard working people that have wound up bankrupt through no fault of their own because for whatever reason they did not have access to some sort of health insurance or the insurance they had was sorely inadequate (pre ACA type) when a catastrophic illness or injury hit their family. No one is immune to it.

I don't understand why some folks think the only people that every benefit from any public law or program are lazy people. The lazy make up a small minority of those getting feebies without work.

At least half on disability aren't really disabled I'd wager. I'm not calling them lazy, I'm calling them cheats.

 

[Big_Blue79]

The irony is, the US gives the average food stamp recipient way more money than needed per month, with no nutritional restrictions. So we pay for them to make awful lifestyle choices on the front end, then pay for their medical care for their awful lifestyle choices on teh back end.

Maybe move food stamps in a similar direction to WIC? WIC has restrictions on what the recipient can purchase. It's also the rare example of a (overall) successful government program - at least the pre-natal nutrition portion of it.

 

[CatDaddy4daWin]

Yeah disability really needs to be reigned in. I don't know about 'more than half' but I'd say it's a sizeable amount of people. And it's people like this and those who cheat Food Stamps and everything who build up resentment against those who actually do need it. I don't know how you go about weeding all of them out but we need to do something.

Canada is socialist! They're doing just fine.
Sweden is socialist! They're doing more than just fine.

How those lazy countries do so well is just beyond me. Everyone is lazy except those hard working conservatives and of course those rich people.

 

[Bill Derington]

If universal health care is you definition of socialism then every industrialized country in the world is socialistic.

The whole idea behind any type of insurance is shared risk be it government or private sector insurance. I'm all for hard work, I've done my share of it over the course but believe me there are a ton of very smart hard working people that have wound up bankrupt through no fault of their own because for whatever reason they did not have access to some sort of health insurance or the insurance they had was sorely inadequate (pre ACA type) when a catastrophic illness or injury hit their family. No one is immune to it.

I don't understand why some folks think the only people that every benefit from any public law or program are lazy people. The lazy make up a small minority of those getting feebies without work.

Because the people that work and have insurance will have to pay more so that disadvantaged people can have insurance. Because it's going to get paid for one way or another. The healthcare received will be of less quality for everyone. And large hospitals will swallow up Drs practices because they simply can't keep up with all the new regulations. It's already happening.

 

[CatDaddy4daWin]

And way to show your patriotism Oklahoma! You just forgot the sheets

 

[Mashburned]

I can't wait till this thing really gets rolling and there's a cvs/walgreens on every corner that doesn't have one already (good luck) with bars, guards, and a line backed up to mcdonalds with mf'ers getting their pills.

 

[bigblueinsanity]

Maybe move food stamps in a similar direction to WIC? WIC has restrictions on what the recipient can purchase. It's also the rare example of a (overall) successful government program - at least the pre-natal nutrition portion of it.

That's what Ive suggested for years. Theres already a program that does a good job at nutritional restrictions. Just use those guidelines, and save us TONS (no pun intended) of money in healthcare on the backend.