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POLITICAL THREAD

How will they rule ??!

  • YES - Qualified

    Votes: 41 82.0%
  • NO - Disqualified

    Votes: 9 18.0%

  • Total voters
    50
  • Poll closed .
Jesus said that everyone who isn't born again is a child of the devil. In other words, you're BORN INTO sin. That's why you need redemption, and why Jesus died on the cross, taking your sin on himself. Ultimately the only sin that really condemns you to eternal punishment and separation from God is the sin of unbelief - rejection of the gift of God through Jesus Christ.
If you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior it doesn't take away your interstitial cystitis, fibromyalgia, sickle cell disease, arthritis, Crohn's disease, shingles. Any of it. You suffer until you die. Whether that be at your own hand or of natural causes. When those things could just not exist at all. God inflicts his torture on the believers and nonbelievers alike.
 
For a self-proclaimed atheist and a determined skeptic, your lack of knowledge of God is off the charts.

Aren't you just a rock, anyway? You atheists claim that we are all just random collections of molecules, right? How do you know that your opinion is correct, then?
I don't know for a fact or claim to. You're the one claiming this God person exists and told us things about the world. The burden of proof lies with you.
 
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If you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior it doesn't take away your interstitial cystitis, fibromyalgia, sickle cell disease, arthritis, Crohn's disease, shingles. Any of it. You suffer until you die. Whether that be at your own hand or of natural causes. When those things could just not exist at all. God inflicts his torture on the believers and nonbelievers alike.
Yes, we each have our cross to bear. What's your point? That is known and accepted. He isn't a genie from a magic lamp who grants wishes.
 
I don't think you know how to use that phrase properly.


Somebody gave his doctor's account of the increase in serious heart problems reported in otherwise healthy, young people who were vaccinated. The doctor even advised his patient not to get vaccinated. Vhcat70, staunch advocate for the vaccine, wrote it off as merely anecdotal nonsense. "The quaint anecdotes of the internet. It's like sitting by a warm fire on a cold night." as he put it. I replied that he was whistling by the graveyard. Educate me as to the proper usage of the phrase.
 
Yes, we each have our cross to bear. What's your point? That is known and accepted. He isn't a genie from a magic lamp who grants wishes.

I stated my point pretty succinctly in a post before the one you quoted.
I wasn't talking about me. I was talking about the thousands of people that got mulched alive by debris carried by a wave that came from an underwater earthquake. They were just living their lives one minute, swept away in the next. Why would God's plan include such things? What did we gain from that event that justified the suffering? And that's just one example from among countless innumerable horrible things that happen every day and throughout all history. Those people living along that coastline weren't in league with Satan. If God's real he's the cruelest thing to ever exist in all the universe. Beyond irredeemably evil.
The simplest explanation is that God doesn't exist. But if He does He's an evil sadist responsible for torturing countless numbers of people. Why would anyone want to worship such an entity or do its bidding? Morality would be opposing it.
 
I don't know for a fact or claim to. You're the one claiming this God person exists and told us things about the world. The burden of proof lies with you.
I don't have to prove anything to you. You have the bigger problem - when you meet God one day and you have to explain yourself to Him. I don't have that problem.

That mind of yours – your soul – is going to live forever. You have a God-given conscience – you know the difference between right and wrong. Is murder wrong? Is rape wrong? Is molesting children wrong? If all you are is a clod of molecules in motion, then there is no morality. Murder is just one clod colliding with another. You know better! In atheism there is no hope, no meaning, and rational thought is impossible. Think!

Are YOU ready for justice? How many lies have you told? Ever stolen anything, including time from your employer for which you got paid anyway? Ever lusted? Ever gotten angry or insulted anyone? God knows your every thought and judges you as a lying thief with an adulterous and murderous heart. This also applies if you’re religious. Rituals and church attendance don’t save.

If there is no God and matter is everything, then WHO are YOU? Is your next thought just brain chemistry? Is there any difference between YOU and a rock on the ground, other than the arrangement of atoms? Do you believe in the existence and the importance of truth, logic, beauty, love, justice, honesty, and goodness? Matter doesn’t have these properties. Don’t YOU have the capacity to distinguish between good ideas and bad ideas, logic and illogic, right and wrong? Isn’t there a YOU in there? Everything about YOU tells YOU that YOU exist! Once YOU admit that YOU exist, it’s easy to figure out that God exists.
 
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I’ll give you a like because I agree in principle for the most part. The issues of rebellion, disrespect for authority, and bullying of other students directly goes back to the students home lives. And now the state has made it hard for schools to discipline students, especially minority students in regard to ESSA for federal reasons. So I can see why some people believe schools just allow it.

As far as the Florida bill, I actually support it if the student is under 18. We’ve reached some weird point in society where we think children are entitled to privacy regarding social or moral behaviors. As a parent, I would want to know and would be pretty upset if I wasn’t informed. I understand critics claim it’s in defense of students from possibly abusive parents but we shouldn’t dictate law because of only the worst scenarios. We also have channels to address abuse if needed. The are parents who might want to assure their children they love them or want to repair whatever made the child not trust them. If my daughter claims to be gay I don’t want her asking for other girls to sleep over. And there’s several of other reasons parents should be told. For good or bad, children are the parent’s responsibility and parents have a right to know.
I also agree with the majority of what you say in theory but I just don't like the government overreach of passing laws that force teachers into disclosing information that could lead to child abuse or a child's suicide.
Maybe require some training on this issue and how to handle it? But to turn it into a law with threats of legal ramifications just seems like more big government overreach.
Each student and every case is different. To paint them all with a broad brush is very problematic.
A teacher is one of the only adults that some kids feel comfortable talking to about their problems. Many students from Uber religious families would rather die than disclose to their parents and family that they are gay. If this law passes....they will be.
At the end of the day...this is a law that will create way more problems than it will solve.
 
I love how you get all indignant when somebody generalizes teachers, but you turn around and do the same exact thing to parents. You foul hypocrite, groomer supporter.
I was specifically responding to the previous poster's comments about students that are undisciplined, violent, and aggressive towards other students/teachers in school. I wasn't talking about ALL parents.
In my experience the kids that exhibit extreme violence and aggression in school are almost always acting out due to violence, drugs, alcohol or sexual abuse in their home environment. It's not hard to understand really.
You obviously don't have a clue about violence in schools or got lost in the comprehension of the conversation.
 
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I don't have to prove anything to you. You have the bigger problem - when you meet God one day and you have to explain yourself to Him. I don't have that problem.

That mind of yours – your soul – is going to live forever. You have a God-given conscience – you know the difference between right and wrong. Is murder wrong? Is rape wrong? Is molesting children wrong? If all you are is a clod of molecules in motion, then there is no morality. Murder is just one clod colliding with another. You know better! In atheism there is no hope, no meaning, and rational thought is impossible. Think!

Are YOU ready for justice? How many lies have you told? Ever stolen anything, including time from your employer for which you got paid anyway? Ever lusted? Ever gotten angry or insulted anyone? God knows your every thought and judges you as a lying thief with an adulterous and murderous heart. This also applies if you’re religious. Rituals and church attendance don’t save.

If there is no God and matter is everything, then WHO are YOU? Is your next thought just brain chemistry? Is there any difference between YOU and a rock on the ground, other than the arrangement of atoms? Do you believe in the existence and the importance of truth, logic, beauty, love, justice, honesty, and goodness? Matter doesn’t have these properties. Don’t YOU have the capacity to distinguish between good ideas and bad ideas, logic and illogic, right and wrong? Isn’t there a YOU in there? Everything about YOU tells YOU that YOU exist! Once YOU admit that YOU exist, it’s easy to figure out that God exists.
I can just as easily present a determinist alternative to consciousness. When you get up in the morning what do you do? Probably get out of bed and go to the bathroom, or put on clothes, or walk to the kitchen and put on some coffee. Or any number of other household things. Why do you do any of these? Most people's perception of that would be their internal monologue. "I'm awake so I can't lay in bed all day I have things to do!" So you get up and you make "decisions". But you don't decide to fly to Venus on a T-Rex. Because your decision making process is limited by your current circumstances. You can't fly a T-Rex to Venus. So do you make coffee or put on clothes first? You can apparently do either under the current circumstances. You base your "decision" on your whole life history up to that moment. What makes YOU, YOU. Maybe you're very modest and don't like walking around scantily clad. Maybe you drink a lot of coffee and hate mornings without it. Whatever your individual case is, when the moment comes to make any "decision" both the current circumstances you find yourself in and your personal history that makes you you are static at that moment. Locked. Every factor in this so-called decision making process accounted for. Which means you're always going to "decide" the same thing in that moment. You don't actually have the choice, just the illusion of one. You aren't going to decide to squirt mustard up your nose instead of making coffee when you get to the kitchen. There is no such thing as free will. Which makes the rest of your questions irrelevant. Any argument that God's existence is readily apparent from the nature of existence or consciousness is just a rehash of the watchmaker's argument and easily countered.
 
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For a self proclaimed moderate,

See why I said you out here defending Bill Gates?
Great, this will help us communicate better. Just how did I defend Gates there? I agreed with his statement. That isn't even close to defending him. Biden or Trump or my trash guy or one of our resident simpletons could have said the same thing and they'd simply be correct. The very nature of a virus means a pandemic will happen again. We'll all probably be dead then but it will happen.

Are you trying to say a pandemic won't happen again? If not, then I guess you are also defending Gates by your yardstick. That is what I was trying to get you to understand. I may agree or disagree with a statement. I don't nullify it automatically based on who said it. To me, it is either correct or incorrect. That is neither defending nor doubting the speaker, it is simply an opinion on a statement.
 
I can just as easily present a determinist alternative to consciousness. When you get up in the morning what do you do? Probably get out of bed and go to the bathroom, or put on clothes, or walk to the kitchen and put on some coffee. Or any number of other household things. Why do you do any of these? Most people's perception of that would be their internal monologue. "I'm awake so I can't lay in bed all day I have things to do!" So you get up and you make "decisions". But you don't decide to fly to Venus on a T-Rex. Because your decision making process is limited by your current circumstances. You can't fly a T-Rex to Venus. So do you make coffee or put on clothes first? You can apparently do either under the current circumstances. You base your "decision" on your whole life history up to that moment. What makes YOU, YOU. Maybe you're very modest and don't like walking around scantily clad. Maybe you drink a lot of coffee and hate mornings without it. Whatever your individual case is, when the moment comes to make any "decision" both the current circumstances you find yourself in and your personal history that makes you you are static at that moment. Locked. Every factor in this so-called decision making process accounted for. Which means you're always going to "decide" the same thing in that moment. You don't actually have the choice, just the illusion of one. You aren't going to decide to squirt mustard up your nose instead of making coffee when you get to the kitchen. There is no such thing as free will. Which makes the rest of your questions irrelevant. Any argument that God's existence is readily apparent from the nature of existence or consciousness is just a rehash of the watchmaker's argument and easily countered.
Interesting take on free will. I suddenly have the urge to squirt mustard up my nose and do a coffee enema while riding a T Rex.
 
He's God. He could just fix the "fallen world". Many followers of God/Christianity die in pain. Suicide risk is drastically higher in those with chronic pain. For obvious reasons. He gives many people "more than he/she can handle".
That is not his way. He made the laws and commandments and also abides by them. We are given a chance to live and choose unless aborted and those in my opinion are souls who have already proven their worth. We were given free will to do what we chose to do and the time to figure it out. We make the decisions once again whether we follow him or Satan. After we leave this earth we are no longer in pain and before you reference Hell and eternal fire that is not what the Bible means. Translations in the Bible confuse people because not everything was translated exactly. If you chose to follow Satan, your fate (if God so judges) is the same as Satans, to be thrown into the lake of fire and to be turned to ashes from within instantaneously forever. That is where the forever comes from.
 
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I can just as easily present a determinist alternative to consciousness. When you get up in the morning what do you do? Probably get out of bed and go to the bathroom, or put on clothes, or walk to the kitchen and put on some coffee. Or any number of other household things. Why do you do any of these? Most people's perception of that would be their internal monologue. "I'm awake so I can't lay in bed all day I have things to do!" So you get up and you make "decisions". But you don't decide to fly to Venus on a T-Rex. Because your decision making process is limited by your current circumstances. You can't fly a T-Rex to Venus. So do you make coffee or put on clothes first? You can apparently do either under the current circumstances. You base your "decision" on your whole life history up to that moment. What makes YOU, YOU. Maybe you're very modest and don't like walking around scantily clad. Maybe you drink a lot of coffee and hate mornings without it. Whatever your individual case is, when the moment comes to make any "decision" both the current circumstances you find yourself in and your personal history that makes you you are static at that moment. Locked. Every factor in this so-called decision making process accounted for. Which means you're always going to "decide" the same thing in that moment. You don't actually have the choice, just the illusion of one. You aren't going to decide to squirt mustard up your nose instead of making coffee when you get to the kitchen. There is no such thing as free will. Which makes the rest of your questions irrelevant. Any argument that God's existence is readily apparent from the nature of existence or consciousness is just a rehash of the watchmaker's argument and easily countered.
What you're saying is you lack faith and that is your choice. A choice granted to you in our opinions. You can do with it as you wish. We could get into the minutia of chance and theory on many things but there is little point. I will say this though on the matter of faith.

Whether you realize it or not, you have tremendous faith. I can't muster it at your level, I just can't. I simply have to believe in an all powerful God. You have to believe in countless trillions of episodes unexplainable phenomenon, luck and happenstance for the world we live in to exist, for the universe to exist and mostly for ourselves to exist.

My hat is off to you, I just can't do it.
 
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I can just as easily present a determinist alternative to consciousness. When you get up in the morning what do you do? Probably get out of bed and go to the bathroom, or put on clothes, or walk to the kitchen and put on some coffee. Or any number of other household things. Why do you do any of these? Most people's perception of that would be their internal monologue. "I'm awake so I can't lay in bed all day I have things to do!" So you get up and you make "decisions". But you don't decide to fly to Venus on a T-Rex. Because your decision making process is limited by your current circumstances. You can't fly a T-Rex to Venus. So do you make coffee or put on clothes first? You can apparently do either under the current circumstances. You base your "decision" on your whole life history up to that moment. What makes YOU, YOU. Maybe you're very modest and don't like walking around scantily clad. Maybe you drink a lot of coffee and hate mornings without it. Whatever your individual case is, when the moment comes to make any "decision" both the current circumstances you find yourself in and your personal history that makes you you are static at that moment. Locked. Every factor in this so-called decision making process accounted for. Which means you're always going to "decide" the same thing in that moment. You don't actually have the choice, just the illusion of one. You aren't going to decide to squirt mustard up your nose instead of making coffee when you get to the kitchen. There is no such thing as free will. Which makes the rest of your questions irrelevant. Any argument that God's existence is readily apparent from the nature of existence or consciousness is just a rehash of the watchmaker's argument and easily countered.
Pretty sure you could do any number of different things than get dressed and drink coffee.
 
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What you're saying is you lack faith and that is your choice. A choice granted to you in our opinions. You can do with it as you wish. We could get into the minutia of chance and theory on many things but there is little point. I will say this though on the matter of faith.

Whether you realize it or not, you have tremendous faith. I can't muster it at your level, I just can't. I simply have to believe in an all powerful God. You have to believe in countless trillions of episodes of luck and happenstance for the world we live in to exist, for the universe to exist and mostly for ourselves to exist.

My hat is off to you, I just can't do it.
I don't "believe" anything. All of my opinions are subject to revision upon receipt of new information. If Jesus poofed in front of me right now and said He was real and Christianity was the real universal truth I'd be all about it. It just doesn't seem likely to me based on the evidence. If you're talking about an aloof creator God that sparked the Big Bang and then stood back and watched sure maybe. But a personal God as Christianity sells it that cares about you and me and intervenes in the universe? It's as I said, that either doesn't exist or He's the definition of evil. Neither of which is worthy of worship.
 
I can just as easily present a determinist alternative to consciousness. When you get up in the morning what do you do? Probably get out of bed and go to the bathroom, or put on clothes, or walk to the kitchen and put on some coffee. Or any number of other household things. Why do you do any of these? Most people's perception of that would be their internal monologue. "I'm awake so I can't lay in bed all day I have things to do!" So you get up and you make "decisions". But you don't decide to fly to Venus on a T-Rex. Because your decision making process is limited by your current circumstances. You can't fly a T-Rex to Venus. So do you make coffee or put on clothes first? You can apparently do either under the current circumstances. You base your "decision" on your whole life history up to that moment. What makes YOU, YOU. Maybe you're very modest and don't like walking around scantily clad. Maybe you drink a lot of coffee and hate mornings without it. Whatever your individual case is, when the moment comes to make any "decision" both the current circumstances you find yourself in and your personal history that makes you you are static at that moment. Locked. Every factor in this so-called decision making process accounted for. Which means you're always going to "decide" the same thing in that moment. You don't actually have the choice, just the illusion of one. You aren't going to decide to squirt mustard up your nose instead of making coffee when you get to the kitchen. There is no such thing as free will. Which makes the rest of your questions irrelevant. Any argument that God's existence is readily apparent from the nature of existence or consciousness is just a rehash of the watchmaker's argument and easily countered.
The problem with you and your view of communism is that you assume Humans giving the right circumstance will all act like Well trained dogs.

You have never included the real world application to your Disneyworld utopia.

It doesn't work. We need free will. Giving the slightest hint of power and we become tyrants. We need an application that gives us freedoms and resistance to tyranny. That also means their will be winners and losers. You can't eliminate the losers from any equation.
 
Pretty sure you could do any number of different things than get dressed and drink coffee.

Please tell me he's not trying to make the case that free will doesn't exist?

There's little to nothing these damn leftists "think" of as substantive deliberative thought or discourse that isn't greatly surpassed by my pot smoking high school friends sitting around a campfire.

Literally nothing of added value whatsoever to our advanced society other than to destroy it and reform it in their own corrupted loser image, absolutely nothing beyond the adolescent level.
 
I don't "believe" anything. All of my opinions are subject to revision upon receipt of new information. If Jesus poofed in front of me right now and said He was real and Christianity was the real universal truth I'd be all about it. It just doesn't seem likely to me based on the evidence. If you're talking about an aloof creator God that sparked the Big Bang and then stood back and watched sure maybe. But a personal God as Christianity sells it that cares about you and me and intervenes in the universe? It's as I said, that either doesn't exist or He's the definition of evil. Neither of which is worthy of worship.
No, he doesn't intervene, not often anyway. If he did, how would we be tested? Everything is about our faith. That is tested best by failure, not success.
 
I don't "believe" anything. All of my opinions are subject to revision upon receipt of new information. If Jesus poofed in front of me right now and said He was real and Christianity was the real universal truth I'd be all about it. It just doesn't seem likely to me based on the evidence. If you're talking about an aloof creator God that sparked the Big Bang and then stood back and watched sure maybe. But a personal God as Christianity sells it that cares about you and me and intervenes in the universe? It's as I said, that either doesn't exist or He's the definition of evil. Neither of which is worthy of worship.
Interesting, you're closer than you believe.
 
For Bill:

"A President can be removed from office if he is impeached or incapacitated, but there is no undoing the Electoral College vote. Anyone who thinks that states can “reclaim” electors, so as to oust Mr. Biden in some kind of glorious revolution and effect a Trump restoration, has lost view of reality." 🤣

"Mr. Trump’s false claims about 2020 already helped Republicans lose Georgia’s two U.S. Senate seats last year, and that was one expensive blunder. Now it could split Wisconsin conservatives, aid (Gov) Mr. Evers’s re-election and perhaps defeat Sen. Ron Johnson. If that’s what ends up happening, Mr. Trump won’t regret it for a second, because he never does. Wisconsin Republicans will regret it for years."

It's all about Trump - to Trump.

 
That is not his way. He made the laws and commandments and also abides by them. We are given a chance to live and choose unless aborted and those in my opinion are souls who have already proven their worth. We were given free will to do what we chose to do and the time to figure it out. We make the decisions once again whether we follow him or Satan. After we leave this earth we are no longer in pain and before you reference Hell and eternal fire that is not what the Bible means. Translations in the Bible confuse people because not everything was translated exactly. If you chose to follow Satan, your fate (if God so judges) is the same as Satans, to be thrown into the lake of fire and to be turned to ashes from within instantaneously forever. That is where the forever comes from.
Where scripturally or anywhere other than your personal opinion does it say that aborted babies' souls have already proven their worth? They weren't "given free will to do what we chose to do and the time to figure it out." That's such a logical inconsistency that you yourself had to bring it up.
 
I
I also agree with the majority of what you say in theory but I just don't like the government overreach of passing laws that force teachers into disclosing information that could lead to child abuse or a child's suicide.
Maybe require some training on this issue and how to handle it? But to turn it into a law with threats of legal ramifications just seems like more big government overreach.
Each student and every case is different. To paint them all with a broad brush is very problematic.
A teacher is one of the only adults that some kids feel comfortable talking to about their problems. Many students from Uber religious families would rather die than disclose to their parents and family that they are gay. If this law passes....they will be.
At the end of the day...this is a law that will create way more problems than it will solve.
I get that but self harm is a huge problem in the LGBTQ community as a whole. All the more reason for parents to be informed and be vigilant in watching for warning signs in their children. Teachers should care about their students well being but they are not parents. And the relationship between the two needs to be professional. JMO.
 
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@Dionysus444

Your model of governance when run through real application results in "lord of the flies" every single time. Everyone.
I understand your opinion. We have more in common than that which divides us. Most of us want what's best for our people. Y'all are the ones who claim to follow Jesus. He had many more things to say about greed, wealth, charity, poverty, and compassion than he did about gay sex.
 
Somebody gave his doctor's account of the increase in serious heart problems reported in otherwise healthy, young people who were vaccinated. The doctor even advised his patient not to get vaccinated. Vhcat70, staunch advocate for the vaccine, wrote it off as merely anecdotal nonsense. "The quaint anecdotes of the internet. It's like sitting by a warm fire on a cold night." as he put it. I replied that he was whistling by the graveyard. Educate me as to the proper usage of the phrase.
That was me, not VH and whistling by the graveyard means I'm nervous or scared but pretend to be cool by whistling. It has nothing to do tmwith what was said. Also, what was said is the very definition of anecdote. Perhaps you should look that up as well.
 
I understand your opinion. We have more in common than that which divides us. Most of us want what's best for our people. Y'all are the ones who claim to follow Jesus. He had many more things to say about greed, wealth, charity, poverty, and compassion than he did about gay sex.

No you don't.

Your motivation is envy, wheras for the faithful Christian, it's good will.
 
No, he doesn't intervene, not often anyway. If he did, how would we be tested? Everything is about our faith. That is tested best by failure, not success.
If he doesn't intervene how is he relevant at all? You can conjecture about anything you want beyond our universe but if we can never interact with it it's the definition of pointless. Worshiping it has no value as it provides nothing in return. He never made a pact with Abraham or revealed anything to Moses. A noninterfering creator God is the same as no God at all.
 
I understand your opinion. We have more in common than that which divides us. Most of us want what's best for our people. Y'all are the ones who claim to follow Jesus. He had many more things to say about greed, wealth, charity, poverty, and compassion than he did about gay sex.
I didn't bring Jesus into this. I brought reality. I also agree we do have a lot more in common than not. You just ignore human reality for text book utopia.

In some ways I wish you were right. I wish that existence was possible. But it is not.
 
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