I think the main difference is pretty simple. Pitino put emphasis on basketball players that could make plays and shoot and utilized their skill set.
Cal put emphasis on athletes that have huge potential draft status.
Pitino, Mashburn, Walker, Mercer, Rhodes, Yarbrough, T-Mac and Cal's inability to land playmaking forwards.
- Thread starter Son_Of_Saul
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Cal put emphasis on athletes that have huge potential draft status.
When you have to completely build your roster almost every year and the target recruits are 17 and 18 year old kids, you'll be lucky if you're only one player short.
It’s impossible to do what Cal keeps trying to do every year, but in Cal's mind, he’s accomplishing his goals as long as he gets kids drafted.
If your goal is to win titles, you wouldn't manage a program this way. The only reason you would do what Cal is doing, is if your goal is getting kids drafted, that's it, you'll never convince me otherwise.
It’s impossible to do what Cal keeps trying to do every year, but in Cal's mind, he’s accomplishing his goals as long as he gets kids drafted.
If your goal is to win titles, you wouldn't manage a program this way. The only reason you would do what Cal is doing, is if your goal is getting kids drafted, that's it, you'll never convince me otherwise.
Cal is choosing the one-and-done method, we can't act like he's being forced to manage the program like a farm system.
Could you imagine how good UK would be every year if Cal had Juniors and Seniors in the starting lineup… .you know… .like the schools that are winning titles?
If my troll game was weak, I'd probably set up multiple accounts too. Chin up, buccaroo. It takes time to develop your game.
Just because y’all are wrong doesn’t mean I’m a troll. Lol It means I’ve proved you wrong and you can’t state facts to back up your claim. It’s ok, you and Son of Saul aren’t the first ones to fall victim to me, and quite frankly, won’t be the last! 😜
You're the ONLY one in this thread that thinks you've scored any points. That's a pretty sad existence, if you ask me. Again, it's probably time to break out that next username you've been saving.
Cal had never done it that way before coming to Kentucky. Once he had the Kentucky name to add to his reputation and started reeling in OAD’s, his first 3 seasons yielded 2 final fours, a championship, and a fluke shooting night that would probably have meant another championship. It seemed to him that it was a viable way to win. It worked. He came incredibly close twice after that and kept going. It’s ridiculous to think he’s not trying to win titles.
You realize that Cal’s upcoming team will in all likelihood feature one freshman and 4 juniors/seniors in the starting lineup right?
The “username” saying, is code for I’m clueless and can’t back up what I’m saying with facts. You can’t make an argument for Pitinos resume without a bunch of ifs and buts. Back up what you’re saying with facts or keep being the laughing stock of Rupp Rafters. For the record, I think Pitino is #3 behind Rupp and Cal.
You can make a case for it, but it's not open and shut that "...best player in UK history in AD".
I'd rank him #3 at best behind Issel and Spivey. Kenny Walker and Jamal Mashburn also say Hello.
Good thread, Son_of_Saul. Nothing unfair about this as far as I can find. We have been an elite playmaking forward away from good to great a few times.
Mf'ers so soft these days
Mf'ers so soft these days
Yeah, it worked at first, he was able to win big AND get kids drafted, but it hasn't really worked out too well since 2015, yet he's chosen to stay with it. My belief is that he stays with it because he’s getting what he wants out of it, which is draft picks, that’s more important than titles.
Believe what you want, I'll believe what my eyes are telling me.
Yup, sure do, but what choice did he have.
Now, take a good hard look at what he is recruiting beyond this class. I'll wait.
As far as "the best player to ever play at UK" goes, it can't be AD, or Fox, or Wall, Cuz, Towns, Murray or Ulis. They’re all great players, but they were 1 year guys (Ulis was a 2 year guy) and that just won't allow anyone to put them in the "greatest ever" category.
Cal was considered the greatest recruiter but it was over a short time. There’s no way anyone considers Cal the best recruiter of all time anymore minus the few left that won’t let his early 5 year run be what it is.
As much as I hate K, he clearly took that title from Cal. Cal is a top recruiter of all time but to definitively say the best is just not true.
It’s down to 3 or 4 of’m.
When the other 3 wake up the 4th is gonna have to really pick up the slack in every thread.
The thing is, it’s actually Cal’s status as a great recruiter that makes this thread interesting. If the guy couldn’t recruit, we’d be saying this about all 5 positions. We can’t. It is interesting that this one type player has eluded Cal more than others.
I agree Jeff but we would all be naive to think Tony Delk would play 4 years now.
He would have been gone after the '94 Marquette loss as a Sophomore nowadays.
First team had Patterson, who Cal didn't recruit.
Then T Jones
Then T Jones and MKG
Then Poythress
Then Randle
Then 2015
Knox
Bam (or was it the other way around for those two?
PJ Washington
Last year sucked, but let's not be ridiculous.
Then T Jones
Then T Jones and MKG
Then Poythress
Then Randle
Then 2015
Knox
Bam (or was it the other way around for those two?
PJ Washington
Last year sucked, but let's not be ridiculous.
I think there are 2 points being neglected though.
1) 2015 is when he stopped landing the elite #1 recruits like Wall, Davis, & Towns. I think all of us would agree that a player like that gives Cal’s teams the best chance of winning. (And no, guys like Skal & Boston don’t count because they were clearly mis-ranked in the first place)
2) There were guys that were CLEARLY recruited to be multi-year guys that left anyway. Cal didn’t expect guys like Teague, Booker, and SGA to be OAD’s but they were. I read an interview with Booker where Cal sold his family on a 3-year plan. And guys like Matthews, Wiltjer, Poole, and Juzang were clearly recruited as multi-year guys but transferred out.
Now, mind you part of that is Cal’s fault simply because of the culture that was created. But I think he’s been trying for more of the type of team you’re wanting without you realizing it. He’s just created a monster of a stigma so that everybody who wants to play for Cal thinks they’ll be a star on day 1 and leave after a year.
And I do think Cal likes the part of his job where he’s able to help a lot of kids get to the nba. But there’s a middle ground here. There are extremes in the fan base that believe that Cal couldn’t give less of a crap about winning and it’s just not true.
We dont know that. Other schools seem to keep guys around for 3/4 years, whereas if they were at UK, they would be gone after one year. You just refuse to accept the culture Cal has created here has hurt the program, and made it harder to win championships. Has he changed the culture now? Maybe. We have to wait and see.
Cal has said this very thing multiple times and some of you refuse to believe him. And NO, it’s not coach speak. While I have issues with Cal, I have always felt he speaks his true feelings. He has said multiple times that he cares less about winning championships and more about changing lives.
No one on this thread better not get excited if we get Sharpe. But I’m sure I will be calling out the same 3 idiots in this thread when he commits and they get excited. Fair weather fans at their finest!
So you feel like him saying he cares “more about changing lives than winning championships” means THE SAME as “couldn’t give less of a crap about winning championships?”
I personally believe that sentiment is more coach speak and recruiting tactic but we’ll never really know what’s actually in his head. But that argument notwithstanding, you realize what he said and what you’re claiming are 2 TOTALLY different things. It’s like someone saying “I care more about my family than i do my friends” and you quoting them as saying “he doesn’t give a crap about his friends.”
Lol, here we go again. I said I agreed with Jeff. Slow your roll. Always pointing fingers.
It is always hard to win championships. Cal had more chances at titles in his time here than any coach not named Rupp. I am not going to gripe and moan over his way. Guess what, the old way netted us 3 titles over a 40 year stretch between '59-'99. It isn't harder, you just don't like it. Cal had guys choke, he even did. There have been plenty of experienced teams and coaches choke.
Anyhow, off the soap box ..I then said back in the day a guy like Delk wouldn't have been a 4 year player...and yeah I do know that.
Next you are going to tell me Mashburn would have stayed 3 years nowadays. Those guys couldn't even leave as Freshmen back then if I'm not mistaken...weren't allowed. Pure and simple...Delk, McCarty, Mercer, Anderson Walker...none of them would have played past their Freshman or Sophomore year...heck Mercer and Walker didn't and that was 25 years ago!
Pitino’s conditioning was second to none too. I think the younger kids think they’re putting in work but aren’t nearly as conditioned as the old squads were.
I think they style of coach matters here to a degree as well. Pitino did not encourage guys to leave early, whereas Cal very much does. We’ve still seen guys remain in college basketball that could have left over the last 15 years. Noah turned down a top pick, Harrison Barnes turned down the lottery, and there has been more.
I don’t think Mashburn stays past 1 year today, but I think some do. And I also think Pitino would have adjusted at UK if he had expected, say, Delk to leave after 2 years. Pitino also had an eye for the hang around kid that would be a title contender by his junior. I think Cal doesn’t assemble a roster anywhere near as good as Pitino did.
I can be really excited about getting Sharpe while also standing firmly behind the fact that you have no idea what you're talking about. The two are not mutually exclusive.
I proved you wrong on multiple occasions and you can’t reply with facts. Instead, you reply with oh hey lead belly. Cue, I’m wrong and can’t back it up. Its ok little one, you took it like a champ! 😜
And nope, you said yourself Cal can’t land top notch wings anymore so you forfeited any excitement you may have for UK until Cal is gone. It’s ok, you can bandwagon the Zags or something like you did UK! 😁
Uh, maybe in your little world, but at some point, reality has to set in.
AD was a generational player, just about as good as it gets, but at UK, his numbers simply don't even come close to adding up. Hell, I'd put Wayne Turner ahead of AD, look what that guy accomplished.
Additionally, AD's stats won’t show up in UK's top 10 with the exception of maybe single season blocks, he can't be the greatest ever at UK if he can't even crack the top 10 in all but 1 stat.
Well, that's just not true, exhibit A is 2016 Villanova, exhibit B is 2017 UNC, exhibit C is 2018 Villanova, exhibit D is 2019 UVA and exhibit E is 2021 Baylor. All of those teams featured 3 and 4 year players that started and finished those final four games.
The truth is, we're one of only 2 schools… .out of 350 D1 schools, that utilizes one-and-done and it's simply not smart to do if you want to win titles.
But here's the thing, you CAN win titles with freshmen based teams, but the only way you're going to do it is if you get multiple top 5 kids and they have to be legit transcendent kids, not Kevin Knox type talents, which is all Cal is getting now. You also need to team them up with damn good veteran players too.
These kids know they can go to Oklahoma State type schools and coast in their one year in college, they don't need to come to UK, get screamed at, get embarrassed, work harder than they ever have and share time with guys like BJB or Devin Askew.
The time has come and gone, there are no NBA lockouts on the horizon and guys like AD aren't walking through the door anymore.
He didn't expect Booker, SGA and Teague to leave? If not, he's not smart. Players far worse than those guys leave every year and yes, it's because the culture Cal created.
Also, nothing is being overlooked, the things you said have been beat to death on here for years.
Juzang and Baker left because they knew Cal was going to sit their asses, they saw what was coming and did the right thing. If you were Baker, would you come back to UK after the way he was treated in that E8 game against Auburn? Hell no.
Your #1 point above has been talked about a ton on here. If you're going to roll with the one-and-done method, you better get AD/Wall/Fox/Knight/MKG/Zion/Barrett/Townes every year, you can't bring in a bunch of 2nd tier kids and think they're going to win something.
Cal has stuck with this too long and looking at who he is recruiting gor 22/23 tells me he ain't changing.
Is he transcendent? Who does he compare to? Is he a complete player, or does he have holes in his game?
There are no idiots in here, the ones you're talking about are the ones saying you have to bring in top shelf kids every year if you're going to roll with the one-and-done method.
If Sharpe is in the Wall/Fox/Randle/AD club, great, that's what we want, but if he's in the Wenyen/Knox/Vanderbilt//Diallo/Hagans club, you should hold off on calling posters out.
Tell me you’re clueless about the game without telling me you’re clueless about the game.
