Pitino blames racism for recruiting woes at UK...

[Cawood86]

Any of you Pitino danglers still loving your boy?

 

[Cawood86]

How many black head coaches have they had at duke, UNC, KU or MSU?

 

[bbncal02]

It’s time. His jersey needs to come down out of the Rafters. Yes. He saved us from basketball obscurity. But if he’s going to sit there and bad mouth UK, flip off its fans, and continue to bring shame and disgust upon the Commonwealth, then it needs to come down for awhile. If he has a change of heart, and apologizes/takes some responsibility, then it could go back up.

As much as I hate to do it, take it down.

 

[NC Weasel]

I'm not saying all was forgiven my all people by the time Pitino arrived, but he didnt really have to break the color barrier again either.

Signed

Sam Bowie
Dirk Minniefield
Charles Hurt
Derrick Hord
Truman Claytor
Jack Givens
James Lee
Eric Manuel
Shawn Kemp
And a couple dozen other top ranked recruits of color

 

[morgousky]

Funny how these Northeastern blow bards who are in actuality some of the most racist pieces of sht you'll ever come across always blow the racism horn on a state like Kentucky because hey, hundreds of years ago there was a civil war everyone read about in 9th grade.

 

[sambowieshin]

He's trying to sell his Katina Powell level book. Controversy sells. Pitino sucks.
Mr. Gorbechev, tear down that banner!

 

[JPScott]

I'm not saying all was forgiven my all people by the time Pitino arrived, but he didnt really have to break the color barrier again either.

Signed

Sam Bowie
Dirk Minniefield
Charles Hurt
Derrick Hord
Truman Claytor
Jack Givens
James Lee
Eric Manuel
Shawn Kemp
And a couple dozen other top ranked recruits of color

That’s all true, and one of examples at the time illustrating that talented black players could come to UK and be successful, as a counter-argument against the negative recruiting taking place in black communities.

But that doesn’t mean that Pitino was wrong by saying that during that time he was recruiting for UK that race was still an important issue for some recruits, especially ones living in Louisville.

I remember listening to recruiting chatter and from time to time you’d hear how so-and-so was interested in UK but one or both of his parents were ‘not a fan’ or otherwise strongly against him coming to UK. Oftentimes this was a euphemism referring to their own negative beliefs or preconceptions about race at UK.

And much of that wasn’t really any concerns for the present day but seemingly punishment for past offenses that they believe UK was due.

Of course by spurning a scholarship offer from UK usually they were hurting themselves more than anyone else.

 

[anon_q409idbs5m40a]

Recurring foot injury throughout season. Confirmed broken foot in early February of 1972. Only played 5 games that year.

Thanks, I was a sophomore in HS at the time and couldn't recall what happened.

 

[anon_q409idbs5m40a]

Not sure what your point is. You seem to be making a good argument that Morton and Osborne (among other recruits from Louisville and elsewhere) indeed did not seriously consider UK at least in part because of preconceptions they or their family held about UK over racial issues (some which involved things which happened decades prior and involving people who were no longer at the school.)

This is not surprising. It's been a common theme since UK started recruiting black players in the early 1960's, although as mentioned the negative impact of it has lessened greatly over the past few decades. But despite this, it hasn't stopped a handful of rival fans from trying to stoke the issue in a misguided attempt to harm UK's recruiting efforts.

What I'm getting at is using the race card to justify not coming to UK seemed to be the biggest reason at that point in time, however, it would've been very difficult regardless to get guys like Morton and Osborne out of Louisville for more reasons than that. Like I said, I don't know how we got Winston Bennett out of Louisville during that period. Just seemed that we (UK) were were portrayed as a villain to black kids in Louisville in years past. I think rival fans are always going to play the race card when it comes to UK.

 

[anon_q409idbs5m40a]

Recurring foot injury throughout season. Confirmed broken foot in early February of 1972. Only played 5 games that year.

We must've led the nation in guards with broken bone injuries in the early '70's. Casey, Hollenbeck, for example.

 

[uk78]

Mr. Gorbechev, tear down that banner![/QUOTE]

That was a good one!

 

[UKrazycat2]

Exactly. It's still called Rupp Arena and Cal has had no problem with recruiting like Pitino claims. Maybe he SHOULD gaze into the mirror to see who to blame, if he could stand to look at himself these days.

He can't. Old dead ass vampires don't have any reflection.

 

[UKxWildcats]

Exactly. It's still called Rupp Arena and Cal has had no problem with recruiting like Pitino claims. Maybe he SHOULD gaze into the mirror to see who to blame, if he could stand to look at himself these days.

He can't see himself in the mirror. Mirrors only reflect the living.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

It’s always seemed like a curious and suspect equation to me: Many UK fans are allegedly racist... but ardently and zealously root for, support and (famously) obsess over teams that have been composed primarily of black athletes for over 40 years now. They buy jerseys with their numbers, have their posters on their walls, flock in record numbers to watch them play, and beg them for autographs at every turn... yet somehow simultaneously disdain/despise them for the color of their skin.

Yeah, that makes all kinds of sense.

Keep your head buried in the sand then...

 

[JC CATS]

What race were A Walker, R Mercer D Anderson. T Delk, etc etc That is just a crazy claim

 

[Rush2112 UK]

Keep your head buried in the sand then...

I will. Keep yours up your rear end.

 

[2Adulterers]

I don’t see a problem with the excerpt. The perception of UK (some of it deserved, some of it not) was indeed a handicap for UK coaches to recruit black players, including Pitino.

I wrote a short article in the 1990’s which discusses this a little & provides examples:

http://www.bigbluehistory.net/bb/louisville.html

Thankfully since that time with Tubby Smith & now Calipari & the passage of time that has largely ceased to be a real issue in recruiting.

Now if Pitino is claiming it’s still a significant issue then I disagree with that. But i agree it was a real issue in the past & obviously UK should continue to ensure that any issues which may crop up in the future which potentially could alienate black players & recruits be proactively avoided and dealt with.

Let’s set the The record straight RUPP WAS NO RACIST I was his Student Manager ask Pratt or Issel they know the truth SEC banned
Black basketball players til 67 when Vandy
Signed Perry. Wallace SEXtino has lost his marbles

 

[2Adulterers]

Didnt Rupp have the first African American kids in the sec??? What's this idiot talking about..can we as BBN just make up our mind to never talk about him again, take him down from the rafters so he doesn't have to be next to any racist and we all move on from this POS!!

Vandy had Perry Wallace in1967. Rupp recruited him Tom Payne was Rupp’s first in 1970

 

[UK90]

Lamar Odom and Tracy Mcgrady going pro early hurt his recruiting more!

Huh? Lamar Odom played his college basketball at Rhode Island (after transferring from UNLV). So how did him going pro supposedly hurt UK recruiting?

 

[jameslee32]

Prickett is the next Larry Bird.

 

[jameslee32]

Then there was the Micharl Bradley, Ryan Hogan, and Myron Anthony class who simply was elite

 

[jameslee32]

Burn in hell Rick.

Must be a Paddock thing.

 

[UKnCincy]

I don’t see a problem with the excerpt. The perception of UK (some of it deserved, some of it not) was indeed a handicap for UK coaches to recruit black players, including Pitino.

I wrote a short article in the 1990’s which discusses this a little & provides examples:

http://www.bigbluehistory.net/bb/louisville.html

Thankfully since that time with Tubby Smith & now Calipari & the passage of time that has largely ceased to be a real issue in recruiting.

Now if Pitino is claiming it’s still a significant issue then I disagree with that. But i agree it was a real issue in the past & obviously UK should continue to ensure that any issues which may crop up in the future which potentially could alienate black players & recruits be proactively avoided and dealt with.

At the risk of derailing things, had a question that I figured you’re the person most likely to know.

I seem to remember reading or hearing (can’t recall where), that part of the delay in Rupp integrating the team was due to striking out on recruits.

Specifically, think I remember hearing a story or two about players’ moms being concerned about their sons’ safety when UK had to travel to places like Oxford, MS. They asked Rupp during recruiting visits if he could guarantee their safety and he wouldn’t promise them something he couldn’t guarantee.

Is this accurate or am I’m just remembering something I was told that wasn’t necessarily true.

 

[Cindog28]

Yep. Obvious racism.

 

[JPScott]

Let’s set the The record straight RUPP WAS NO RACIST I was his Student Manager ask Pratt or Issel they know the truth SEC banned
Black basketball players til 67 when Vandy
Signed Perry. Wallace SEXtino has lost his marbles

Never said he was. All I said is there is the perception by some that he was, which is an undeniable truth.

BTW, there was no official ban on black players by the SEC. (Although it likely was an unwritten rule until the early 60’s). UK was the first SEC school to announce their intention to integrate their athletics & to allow their coaches to recruit black players in May 1963.

 

[JPScott]

At the risk of derailing things, had a question that I figured you’re the person most likely to know.

I seem to remember reading or hearing (can’t recall where), that part of the delay in Rupp integrating the team was due to striking out on recruits.

Specifically, think I remember hearing a story or two about players’ moms being concerned about their sons’ safety when UK had to travel to places like Oxford, MS. They asked Rupp during recruiting visits if he could guarantee their safety and he wouldn’t promise them something he couldn’t guarantee.

Is this accurate or am I’m just remembering something I was told that wasn’t necessarily true.

Yes, Rupp (who had numerous issues & run-ins with hostile fans etc. on the road in the South even with all-white teams) was very concerned with player safety. And he didn’t blow smoke over the recruits as to the possibility of danger like less scrupulous coaches might.

Remember that in Wes Unseld’s case UK was recruiting him before the 1964 Civil Rights Act was passed into law. There was a delay in UK formally offering Unseld a scholarship because Rupp first wanted to arrange with the Mississippi schools that they could play their home games vs. UK in Memphis rather than in Oxford or Starkville.

I go into detail about various black UK recruits during the 1960’s on my Rupp Page.

http://www.bigbluehistory.net/bb/rupp.html

 

[JPScott]

Yep. Obvious racism.

Seems you and a number of other people are intentionally misrepresenting the claim.

Obviously Pitino and other coaches at UK were successful at signing a number of talented black recruits.

But that doesn’t mean that the perception of race wasn’t an issue for some. There were indeed cases from the 60’s through the 1990’s (at least maybe even to today) where a negative preconception about UK and in particular over the issue of race has prevented recruits from seriously considering UK.

Rupp, Hall, Sutton and Pitino all fought against this stigma in their own ways and with varying amounts of success. It’s a constant struggle.

And while it’s largely a non-factor today, that doesn’t stop some rival fans from trying to stir it up & try to capitalize off of it. So it’s good IMO for UK fans to at least be aware of it and if needed be prepared to fight it. Those who choose to stick your heads in the sand and act like it was never an issue aren’t helping IMO.

 

[2Adulterers]

Never said he was. All I said is there is the perception by some that he was, which is an undeniable truth.

BTW, there was no official ban on black players by the SEC. (Although it likely was an unwritten rule until the early 60’s). UK was the first SEC school to announce their intention to integrate their athletics & to allow their coaches to recruit black players in May 1963.

Well Rupp said several times the SEC would not let him sign a black to a grant in aid specifically Tonto Coleman the Commissioner

 

[tapemaster8]

Donovan was here until 94. We only got Mercer because he couldn't get into Vandy and we had to hire Simeon Mars to get Magloire. Then there was the Micharl Bradley, Ryan Hogan, and Myron Anthony class who simply was elite and no where near as good as the talent we lost that year.

Mars didn’t come to UK until Magloire’s Sophmore year! I guess he may have been in the pipeline, but Tubby hired him!

 

[BIGWYYNER]

Huh? Lamar Odom played his college basketball at Rhode Island (after transferring from UNLV). So how did him going pro supposedly hurt UK recruiting?

Was it KG I thought it was 2 top players we lost to the NBA.

 

[UK90]

Was it KG I thought it was 2 top players we lost to the NBA.

As I recall, KG was regarded as a virtual lock for Michigan if he hadn't gone pro. In fact, I think KG himself even acknowledged once that it would've been Michigan.

You're right about Tracy McGrady, though. I don[t think he ever officially committed, but I recall that everyone assumed T-Mac was Kentucky-bound until he instead decided to skip college.

But I'm not sure who the other guy you're thinking of is.

 

[Poetax]

Excerpt quoted in the Courier Journal: As for the mention of racism, Pitino goes on to say that "the segregated past of Kentucky basketball still cast an ugly shadow on the school" and that the parents of some African-American recruits he tried to lure as UK's coach "were dead set against their sons playing at the Rupp Arena."

Odd that it has been decades since I've heard a hint of Kentucky losing a player because of "the segregated past" which ended 50 years ago. Could it be that the king of the passive-aggressive liars has invented this as a back-handed slap at UK (which he claims to still love?)

Nah, I don't believe that for 15 seconds...

He’s still the village idiot.

 

[Cindog28]

Seems you and a number of other people are intentionally misrepresenting the claim.

Obviously Pitino and other coaches at UK were successful at signing a number of talented black recruits.

But that doesn’t mean that the perception of race wasn’t an issue for some. There were indeed cases from the 60’s through the 1990’s (at least maybe even to today) where a negative preconception about UK and in particular over the issue of race has prevented recruits from seriously considering UK.

Rupp, Hall, Sutton and Pitino all fought against this stigma in their own ways and with varying amounts of success. It’s a constant struggle.

And while it’s largely a non-factor today, that doesn’t stop some rival fans from trying to stir it up & try to capitalize off of it. So it’s good IMO for UK fans to at least be aware of it and if needed be prepared to fight it. Those who choose to stick your heads in the sand and act like it was never an issue aren’t helping IMO.

I'm not saying it didn't happen as I was not there, but for Pitino to JUST NOW come out "of the sand" and say that it did (even though he didn't SEEM to struggle with racism back then as he had several African American assistant coaches and players) with no evidence is weak to me. How valuable is his word?

Just because society in history has had struggles it doesn't mean it was directly related to UK basketball or the fanbase (whom we all can agree we have our share of idiots as do other teams). I DO think rumors and innuendo were probably more common than facts when Pitino first started coaching at UK. Race mixed with social media may (imo) be more of a problem NOW compared to the 90's. I do not seem to hear any parents complaints about UK fans being racist, but I DO see Calipari recruiting whoever he wants.

Love your posts, JPS, but I disagree with you on this one. I graduated in 1994 and things weren't that bad back then.

 

[USSLair]

Must be a Paddock thing.

You can burn too. Wtf

 

[JPScott]

I'm not saying it didn't happen as I was not there, but for Pitino to JUST NOW come out "of the sand" and say that it did (even though he didn't SEEM to struggle with racism back then as he had several African American assistant coaches and players) with no evidence is weak to me. How valuable is his word?

Just because society in history has had struggles it doesn't mean it was directly related to UK basketball or the fanbase (whom we all can agree we have our share of idiots as do other teams). I DO think rumors and innuendo were probably more common than facts when Pitino first started coaching at UK. Race mixed with social media may (imo) be more of a problem NOW compared to the 90's. I do not seem to hear any parents complaints about UK fans being racist, but I DO see Calipari recruiting whoever he wants.

Love your posts, JPS, but I disagree with you on this one. I graduated in 1994 and things weren't that bad back then.

If you were around in the 1990s (and paying attention) then you would know that Pitino did indeed talk about problems recruiting some black players during that time, specifically citing Jason Osborne and Dwane Morton. and probably a few others.

It's not like he was holding onto that until now. As far as I'm concerned it's been common knowledge for a long time, which is why I find it particularly strange that some people on his thread act like it has no basis or is coming out of the blue.

And I agree with you that in general it wasn't that bad, and most of it was based on the remnants of perceived issues from the 50's and 60's, not that race was much of an issue in the 90's.

But it indeed was an issue among a few recruits and it did hurt UK in recruiting to an extent. That's just a fact.

 

[JPScott]

. . . . we do not care if our indifference does not help. In fact, we insist to you that your ratification of the propaganda is precisely what has promulgated and perpetuates the matter, and you are to blame for it.

Nice. Curious exactly what do you mean by my 'ratification of the propaganda'?

All I've done is provide facts. You can dispute them if you can. Or you can attack the messenger. Your choice. But it reveals more about you than me.

 

[Blueworld_3.0]

As a UK fan I am embarrassed to have Pitino's name associated with the program I love. Every single time he opens his mouth the feces gets deeper. It's waaaay past time for the University of KY to disavow that assjack and get his name OUT of the rafters!

 

[*Bleedingblue*]

Excerpt quoted in the Courier Journal: As for the mention of racism, Pitino goes on to say that "the segregated past of Kentucky basketball still cast an ugly shadow on the school" and that the parents of some African-American recruits he tried to lure as UK's coach "were dead set against their sons playing at the Rupp Arena."

Odd that it has been decades since I've heard a hint of Kentucky losing a player because of "the segregated past" which ended 50 years ago. Could it be that the king of the passive-aggressive liars has invented this as a back-handed slap at UK (which he claims to still love?)

Nah, I don't believe that for 15 seconds...

Pitino had trouble recruiting because he was always talking with nba teams. Other coaches used that against him of course saying he's leaving UK for the nba and will not be coaching your son.
If another coach used anything about racism then obviously Pitino could use it right back at em.

But at the time we were mainly competing against UNC, Duke, KU, UCLA, Michigan etc for players

If you recall many of those schools were cheating their asses off at that time. UNC Mich etc etc

 

[mj2k10]

As I recall, KG was regarded as a virtual lock for Michigan if he hadn't gone pro. In fact, I think KG himself even acknowledged once that it would've been Michigan.

You're right about Tracy McGrady, though. I don[t think he ever officially committed, but I recall that everyone assumed T-Mac was Kentucky-bound until he instead decided to skip college.

But I'm not sure who the other guy you're thinking of is.

Jermaine O'Neal, probably.

 

[seccats04]

An old white guy pulling the race card? Man, he is DESPERATE!