Physicality in college basketball

[USARMYWILDCAT]

I hate the phrase (Physical defensive team). To me that just means that the team that is playing is less talented and less athletic. The only way they can win is by pushing, slapping, hacking, holding ext. I watched the Tennessee/South Carolina game last night. I did not see two outstanding teams to be honest with you. I saw two teams that were just allowed to beat the s$&t out of each other. John Calipari has had some good defensive teams under him at Kentucky. I don’t ever remember a point where one of those teams were considered super physical. The teams were just really athletic and really talented teams on defense. They were able to play defense without pulling, slapping, etc. I think this is one of the biggest problems with college basketball right now. You take a team like Tennessee, yes Knecht is a super talented offensive player. If that team was not allowed to play defense the way they do, “which to me is not defense it’s just fouling all the time and not getting called for it”. They would not even be a top 20 team. During the Kentucky South Carolina game the only thing I heard from the broadcast was how physical South Carolina was playing defense. The whole game, South Carolina was bumping our guys off the screens and moving them. Those are fouls that’s not physical defense. I understand Cal saying you have to learn to play through that stuff. That shouldn’t be the case, basketball should be fun to watch. The most athletic and talented skilled players should be allowed to be that. They should not be hindered by. “ physical defense.”

 

[crestcat]

I watched also, ugly basketball, both teams shot about 35%. Fugley

 

[drew_ukfan]

Basketball shouldn’t ever be a rock fight

Basketball should be graceful

 

[Taiza]

I agree. For some reason the SEC in particular is bad about promoting this brand of basketball. Also I think the SEC has the worst officials of any major conference at least. Maybe worse. Philosophies change. Touch fouls get called in one half and not the other. Anticipations everywhere. At least is seems that stupid charge has finally gone the way of the dodo.

 

[blubo]

Very ugly. minus the orange maybe not quite so much

 

[crestcat]

I agree. For some reason the SEC in particular is bad about promoting this brand of basketball. Also I think the SEC has the worst officials of any major conference at least. Maybe worse. Philosophies change. Touch fouls get called in one half and not the other. Anticipations everywhere. At least is seems that stupid charge has finally gone the way of the dodo.

Players too big and fast and the refs can’t keep up, that’s why anticipation fouls and the flops get called. Their egos won’t let them change them.

 

[BlueSince92]

I hate it because a “physical” game is Always some kind of referee mind f—. They figure they can’t call them all. Which, more realistically, they don’t want to call them all because they’re afraid to look like ogres. And then when they do call it to whatever extent, if it gets disproportionate because one team really is doing all the hard fouling, cheap fouling, then they feel guilty about the lopsided number of calls and they always wind up calling bs phantom makeup calls on the team that’s playing clean. Which is almost always the better team, which is why they went into the game thinking they wouldn’t have to thug foul to win.

So it’s inherently unfair and what’s more it puts artificial limits on how much good, clean, high-level basketball can actually be played. Everybody loses.

I hate it.

If you wanted to really make a system where you could play that rough and it was legal, or if you wanted to let it stay illegal and really call the transgressions thoroughly and consistently, I’d be fine with either one of those. But the way it is…..when it comes to rough, technically illegal defense, a pretty good amount of unfairness is totally baked into the system.

 

[USARMYWILDCAT]

I agree. For some reason the SEC in particular is bad about promoting this brand of basketball. Also I think the SEC has the worst officials of any major conference at least. Maybe worse. Philosophies change. Touch fouls get called in one half and not the other. Anticipations everywhere. At least is seems that stupid charge has finally gone the way of the dodo.

I 100% agree with you. I also believe this is why when Kentucky gets to the NCAA tournament this year and away from the SEC refs. They are going to be shooting a lot of free throws.

 

[ukjenning44]

I like physical basketball. Back in the 80’s and 90’s the NBA was fun to watch because those guys mugged one another.
The “Bad Boy” Pistons dudes were some dirty players.

 

[USARMYWILDCAT]

I like physical basketball. Back in the 80’s and 90’s the NBA was fun to watch because those guys mugged one another.
The “Bad Boy” Pistons dudes were some dirty players.

I don’t disagree with you. There’s a big difference though between when someone comes in the lane and the defender hammering them and what’s going on right now in college. I literally went back and watched the Kentucky /South Carolina game. It was criminal with what South Carolina was allowed to get away with that game. Their big guys didn’t even have to hedge on our screens. Their guards were allowed to bump our guys off screens and hand check all night long. That’s not physical those are foul. When your big man doesn’t have to hedge out on a guard, hell yes your defense is gonna look great. Our guards are so athletic and can beat anyone off the dribble especially off the screen. The only way South Carolina had a chance to win was to bump our guards off their spot and hand check so they could allow their big men to stay home . That’s what most of us are talking about when we say “physical defense”

 

[uk78]

If Kentucky was a physical team I imagine a lot of posts would be let them play physically it's not a foul.

I actually don't think there is a lot of frequent mugging and fans see only the calls that don't go the way they desire. If refs don't call obvious fouls then the game would be ridiculous, but if bodies hit one another that is how the game is played. The reasonable complaint for officiating is only when calls aren't consistent. Otherwise, I have no issue if a game is called loosely or close as long as it is consistent. If they players, well especially the coach can't figure it out then that's on them.

 

[rivercatinfl]

I don’t disagree with you. there’s a big difference though between when someone comes in the lane and the defender hammering them and what’s going on right now in college. I literally went back and watched the Kentucky /South Carolina game. It was criminal with South Carolina was allowed to get by with that game. Their big guys didn’t even have to hedge on our screens. Their guards were allowed to bump our guys off screens and hand check all night long. That’s not physical those are foul. When your big man doesn’t have to hedge out on a guard. Hell yes, your defense is gonna look great. Our guards are so athletic and can beat anyone off the dribble especially the screen. The only way South Carolina had a chance to win was the bumper guards off their spot and hand check so they could allow their big men to stay home . That’s what most of us are talking about when we say “physical defense”

I wanted our guys to fight back and play equally as physical. It was as if we were scared to bump and grind with USC.
If the officials are gonna let em play, that's fine. Just call it both ways on each end.
The foul on Shepard where we blocked the driving layup by SC was one of the worst calls I've ever seen. (all ball).
I'd say recognize the way the game is being called and if we're getting bumped, pushed and hand checked, play the same way and don't allow them to bully you.
At least that's one option vs getting hammered and just taking it.

 

[USARMYWILDCAT]

If Kentucky was a physical team I imagine a lot of posts would be let them play physically it's not a foul.

I actually don't think there is a lot of frequent mugging and fans see only the calls that don't go the way they desire. If refs don't call obvious fouls then the game would be ridiculous, but if bodies hit one another that is how the game is played. The reasonable complaint for officiating is only when calls aren't consistent. Otherwise, I have no issue if a game is called loosely or close as long as it is consistent. If they players, well especially the coach can't figure it out then that's on them.

I agree with you to a point. It’s not about obvious ridiculous calls. It’s allowing things like screens to be defended illegally. South Carolina bumped Kentucky off screes and hand checked all night. Both of which are fouls. It allowed more time for there defense to rotate and for there bigs to stay at home. It made SC defense look so much better than it should.

 

[BlueBomb]

Some teams have to play that way. It's the only way they can win against more talent. I hate to watch it myself, but I certainly understand why some coaches feel that's their only resort.

Of course, it's not necessary for teams to play that way against Kentucky, because they will hit 14 three pointers. So, they have that going for them...

 

[Ky_Bred_Cat]

Could be that some teams emphasize physical almost dirty play out of necessity. And, that pays off because the refs have a more difficult time making calls when it's almost the entire team playing this way? Conversely, refs might call it more when maybe only one or two players on a team are being too physical? Like an Oscar and skinny kids lineup?

 

[Lempface]

Yep, it's the, "they won't call em all" strategy. And it's bullshit. A few years ago they tried to get it outta the game but gave up on it because games had 50-60 fouls. In my opinion though they shoulda kept it, eventually teams would have adjusted but they relented.

 

[jjsomer]

I hate the phrase (Physical defensive team). To me that just means that the team that is playing is less talented and less athletic. The only way they can win is by pushing, slapping, hacking, holding ext. I watched the Tennessee/South Carolina game last night. I did not see two outstanding teams to be honest with you. I saw two teams that were just allowed to beat the s$&t out of each other. John Calipari has had some good defensive teams under him at Kentucky. I don’t ever remember a point where one of those teams were considered super physical. The teams were just really athletic and really talented teams on defense. They were able to play defense without pulling, slapping, etc. I think this is one of the biggest problems with college basketball right now. You take a team like Tennessee, yes Knecht is a super talented offensive player. If that team was not allowed to play defense the way they do, “which to me is not defense it’s just fouling all the time and not getting called for it”. They would not even be a top 20 team. During the Kentucky South Carolina game the only thing I heard from the broadcast was how physical South Carolina was playing defense. The whole game, South Carolina was bumping our guys off the screens and moving them. Those are fouls that’s not physical defense. I understand Cal saying you have to learn to play through that stuff. That shouldn’t be the case, basketball should be fun to watch. The most athletic and talented skilled players should be allowed to be that. They should not be hindered by. “ physical defense.”

If you watch the first 5 minutes of the second half of the UT USCjr game, you saw the way a game should be officiated with Tenn. There were like 5 fouls called within 1 minute of game action. Tenn literally, cannot play defense without hands on players. And USCjr isn't much better.

 

[jjsomer]

If Kentucky was a physical team I imagine a lot of posts would be let them play physically it's not a foul.

I actually don't think there is a lot of frequent mugging and fans see only the calls that don't go the way they desire. If refs don't call obvious fouls then the game would be ridiculous, but if bodies hit one another that is how the game is played. The reasonable complaint for officiating is only when calls aren't consistent. Otherwise, I have no issue if a game is called loosely or close as long as it is consistent. If they players, well especially the coach can't figure it out then that's on them.

This is nonsense. All you have to do is watch the game to see...and you don't even have to understand basketball. When a defensive player is allowed to use hands to push or hold or slap to impede an offensive players movement, that is a foul. The SEC allows this type of defense as the norm. They have for years. It allows the lesser talented SEC compete with the more talented teams. It artificially props them up. And when a different set of officials (non-SEC) are selected in the NCAA tournament to officiate a TENN game, you can see the what happens...whistles galore.

 

[UKBB4Ever]

This is how the SEC plays because this is how the SEC is officiated.

But college basketball as a whole is an ugly game. The college game is about coaches and officials. The players and fans are an afterthought.

NIL has created a conundrum for college sports. Money is power and the players used to not have it.

Now that money is flowing to the players so is some power.

The old heads of college sports don’t know what to do or how to handle it.

But beauty is also in the eye of the beholder. I hated the “bad boys” and the Knicks and others of that era and how they played. And so did most of the public.

That led to changes that led to today’s NBA game. The fans love it now too. I think the rules have been changed too much to favor the offense. The pendulum has swung too far.

There has to be a middle ground.

But with the money flowing into the nba like it is now there is no call for change. College sports are going to have to adapt or die.

Conference ties really mean nothing anymore.

The Big 10, (14,18,20, whatever it is now), stretches coast to coast next year.

The SEC will now be Texas and Oklahoma too. The ACC is certainly not the Atlantic Coast.

The money is flowing while the SEC wades in wearing cement shoes.

 

[Smashcat]

I agree. For some reason the SEC in particular is bad about promoting this brand of basketball. Also I think the SEC has the worst officials of any major conference at least. Maybe worse. Philosophies change. Touch fouls get called in one half and not the other. Anticipations everywhere. At least is seems that stupid charge has finally gone the way of the dodo.

👍

 

[SmyrnaCatFan]

Thanks OP for your service. Seeing your handle reminded me of many games my son and I watched together while he was in Afghanistan. We would text with each other during play.

I'm with you on the physicality. By biggest peeve is the moving screen. Second for me is the hacking down on a driving player that knocks the ball loose.

 

[UKWILDCAT2004]

Yep, it's the, "they won't call em all" strategy. And it's bullshit. A few years ago they tried to get it outta the game but gave up on it because games had 50-60 fouls. In my opinion though they shoulda kept it, eventually teams would have adjusted but they relented.

If you remember when they said they were gonna clean the games up that it could get ugly before it gets better as far as number of fouls called but teams would adjust. For a couple years every November and December games had 50 or 60 fouls. It was ugly. But athleticism and actual basketball was winning games. Then came conference play and we were back to the "can't call them all" defense. Athleticism was canceled out by hand checks and body bumps. Along comes March and because officials wanted to move on in the tournament back to calling the game tight. Athleticism ruled once again unless John Higgins was calling the game. No-one knows what the hell he's doing. And now the past couple of years they have scrapped the free flowing game of basketball and its back to "can't call them all" defense from the get go.

 

[phyrekat]

This is nonsense. All you have to do is watch the game to see...and you don't even have to understand basketball. When a defensive player is allowed to use hands to push or hold or slap to impede an offensive players movement, that is a foul. The SEC allows this type of defense as the norm. They have for years. It allows the lesser talented SEC compete with the more talented teams. It artificially props them up. And when a different set of officials (non-SEC) are selected in the NCAA tournament to officiate a TENN game, you can see the what happens...whistles galore.

Yep.. This is exactly why the SEC typically does so poorly in the tournament, IMHO

 

[nickhorvathsuxazz]

Basketball shouldn’t ever be a rock fight

Basketball should be graceful

Not too graceful though...