Pac 12 officially dead

[CondorCat]

Yeah, not sure about the exact dollars, but I read that the ACC will be paying out somewhere around $35 to 38 million in 2024 and the B1G, with today's additions of Washington and Oregon, will be shelling out $90 to 100 million to member schools in 2024. It's all about eyeballs, money and profits in today's CF world

I think those share numbers for the B1G are a bit too high. Last year they paid out around $60 million per team (except Nebraska, Maryland, and Rutgers who got less). The new teams Oregon and Washington will also only get 50% shares (~ 30M) until the next TV contract. The SEC shares are around $50M for every school.

Big 10 Leads in 2022 Revenue Shares

 

[blue cincy]

SEC Might as well just absorb the entire ACC. One fail swoop and be done. lol Joke!

That would keep us in tact all over the southeast. Would hurt football too much watering down the conference. We would be the best basketball conference from here on out.

 

[blue cincy]

How does WVU help with the DC market?

3 hour from WVU to DC that puts it in their market eyes.

 

[blue cincy]

It doesn't. Poster is mistaken. I live in the DC market.

Would not be my first time being mistaken. lol
I have several friends that were in DC for many years (working for congressmen) and they were the ones telling me WVU has a pretty strong following in DC. That is where I was applying my thought process. I like the look (if you look at the map (Mizzou / KENTUCKY / WVU / VIRGINIA) all north part of the SEC. But we all know that will not happen. I would say (tight lips SEC office) has a plan ready to go as soon as they can. I would doubt they are short sighted enough to think its the SEC vs the entire USA. Heck that sounds like the civil war of football.

 

[Mroad]

There is no doubt the B10 and SEC are running college...they are literally going to have all the good teams!

 

[hmt5000]

I still think NC st is the best addition we can make out of the acc. They have the bigger alumni base in NC and are consistently decent in both sports. That adds more eyeballs than any other addition. Va tech would be 2nd and then Clem and FSU.

 

[Grumpyolddawg]

There is no doubt the B10 and SEC are running college...they are literally going to have all the good teams!

I think the next couple years determine if the ACC survives as a P5 football conference. They are going to be 30-50m down on conferencerevenue. Whoever wins their conference has to make a run in the playoffs, imo.

 

[irishcat1965]

Just as long as UL is left in sports oblivion, there is a silver lining to this insanity.

 

[truebluewildcat]

There is no doubt the B10 and SEC are running college...they are literally going to have all the good teams!

I think the next couple years determine if the ACC survives as a P5 football conference. They are going to be 30-50m down on conferencerevenue. Whoever wins their conference has to make a run in the playoffs, imo.

I think we're seeing the first evolution of some schools/conferences phasing out of "collegiate" athletics into some sort of pro tier just below the NFL, NBA, etc...kind of a euro model where athletics and school are conjoined.

Overseas there are the big boys, and then there are the leagues comprised of all the little clubs from smaller towns.

That's what the top level of D1 has become. There are about 40 programs who have clearly pulled away from everyone else competitively on the field in terms of talent, coaching, media coverage, general fan interest, and money making/spending. They're not big boy pro like NFL, NBA...but they're clearly on another level than the rest of the NCAA.

I think ultimately the conferences are going to continue to merge/consolidate/realign to where essentially a big "BCS" League forms and splits from NCAA.

The way things are trending it looks like the SEC/B10 are going to be that league. Whoever they take in over the next few years makes the cut. I don't even know if the B12 can compete at this point, they're down their two biggest brands.

Question is does whatever remains of PAC, ACC, and B12 try to make some sort of 3rd tier pro/semi pro or do they fall back to more traditional NCAA?

 

[Girthang]

I'm just here waiting to see when the SEC will figure out how to get some teams from the ACC. Just a matter of time.

Should have grabbed Oregon, Washington, Stanford and Cal, along with Utah and Arizona to make a western division of the SEC. Prepare the conference for 4 divisions of 6 or so teams once they added some ACC teams.

 

[Girthang]

I still think NC st is the best addition we can make out of the acc. They have the bigger alumni base in NC and are consistently decent in both sports. That adds more eyeballs than any other addition. Va tech would be 2nd and then Clem and FSU.

And pretty good in baseball iirc

 

[clevenger32]

How does WVU help with the DC market?

The eastern panhandle is part of the DC metropolitan statistical area and Media market that is how. Lots of commuters live in WVa.

 

[trueblujr2]

How about WVU from Big 12 / Va Tech / UNC / FSU or Miami to SEC. WVU decent in football every 3 years, good in basketball and we get part of the DC market. UNC is the best choice in North Carolina, if UNC goes to Big10 then NC State.

I always thought FSU and Clemson were naturals for the SEC, Georgia Tech could make a return, UNC I suppose, would be a good fit, but I hate them. As long as UofL and Duke are left out in the cold after all the realignment, I'm good.

 

[entropy13]

The eastern panhandle is part of the DC metropolitan statistical area and Media market that is how. Lots of commuters live in WVa.

Respectfully, WVU isn't a pull in the DC market. There are some commuters, but a lot of those folks didn't grow up in WVa and aren't WVU fans to begin with.

 

[Perrin75]

I have been trying to work through scenarios where the ACC finds 8 teams to dissolve the conference. That is the only way to make it work. The exit fee + grant of rights means no single team is going to be able to afford to make that jump. This, of course, would also involve the TV partners willing to offer money to bring these teams onboard. For the Big 10, I see UVA, UNC, Miami and Georgia Tech. The first three in this scenario make sense. They all fit the Big 10 profile. Tech is stretch, but it would be the only way to get the other three schools out. It is basically bringing UCLA along with USC. From that point, Notre Dame is left with no options, and I see them jumping on the Big 10 bandwagon along with Stanford to bring them to 24 teams.

The SEC is a little less clear. The best option would be FSU, Clemson, VA Tech and NC State. The Hokies are the only team of that four that makes a lot of sense. Big fan base, new territory in a populous state, already have a good TV presence. NC State is a slightly smaller version of VA Tech. Clemson and FSU I don't know about. They have a big market share in the ACC. I don't know if that would translate to the SEC. But again, if it is going to happen this makes sense. I don't see anyone else on the landscape that the SEC would want at this point, so I think they stay at 20 teams.

From there, my guess would be that both leagues start playing 10 conference games a year in order to offer more inventory to their media partners. It would also allow them to adopt a more NFL structure for each conference where they are split into 4 pods that play each other annually and then rotate around the other games.

I am not certain if this sort of scenario is going to make things better or worse for College Football, but it looks like it is inevitable. The money to be made, and the stability that it brings is just too great for the schools to ignore.

 

[Grumpyolddawg]

I think we're seeing the first evolution of some schools/conferences phasing out of "collegiate" athletics into some sort of pro tier just below the NFL, NBA, etc...kind of a euro model where athletics and school are conjoined.

Overseas there are the big boys, and then there are the leagues comprised of all the little clubs from smaller towns.

That's what the top level of D1 has become. There are about 40 programs who have clearly pulled away from everyone else competitively on the field in terms of talent, coaching, media coverage, general fan interest, and money making/spending. They're not big boy pro like NFL, NBA...but they're clearly on another level than the rest of the NCAA.

I think ultimately the conferences are going to continue to merge/consolidate/realign to where essentially a big "BCS" League forms and splits from NCAA.

The way things are trending it looks like the SEC/B10 are going to be that league. Whoever they take in over the next few years makes the cut. I don't even know if the B12 can compete at this point, they're down their two biggest brands.

Question is does whatever remains of PAC, ACC, and B12 try to make some sort of 3rd tier pro/semi pro or do they fall back to more traditional NCAA?

I am thinking the same thing as you, not sure I will be around when it happens. But like you I think it turns into a group of schools of 40-50 of what we're P5 schools and 1 or 2 who were not. Then the next group would be the top group schools and former P5 schools who didn't opt for the big league. It goes on to 4-5 different leagues.

Even thought UGA has enjoyed success in this NIL/portal era I don't care for, we don't compete in the play for pay deal, lost one Sat to a last minute crazy amout offer, had a flip to AU earlier to a huge amount. But can't fault the kids, many have grown up in poor households and this is a huge help.

 

[Catfanlou]

I've been wondering if we get 4 conferences with 16 teams... Thats 64 for basketball tournament and most of the football schools locked up. One way to solve less money is to spread it over fewer teams. 130ish teams now and I'm not sure how much the ncaa takes out of the pie for those lower half teams.

Excellent idea . One way to keep UConn from catching us in NCAA titles.

 

[maysvilleky]

I think the SEC has to make a move. I think they will. I honestly think they may poach a couple more from the Big12 and then wait for the ACC legal battle to play out and take 2-4 from there.

 

[maysvilleky]

I think it could eventually get to two 30 team divisions of D1 football. North/West (currently B10) and the South/Southwest (currently SEC).

 

[Soupbean]

I hate the conference realignment going on. Big Game Boomer had his first good take ever.

View embedded media

I agree with him. Once you start crossing the levels were seeing now in realignment conference have no meaning anymore. The beauty of conferences was the regionality of them and that created the interest and "pride" in the conferences themselves. Now that those are intermingled whats the point? It used to mean something souting SEC SEC! When there's just 4 super conferences and each one is made up of 30 random schools, what the point?College sports are built on traditions and the more you tear those down the more you diminish the product for me.

 

[vhcat70]

The eastern panhandle is part of the DC metropolitan statistical area and Media market that is how. Lots of commuters live in WVa.

There aren't a lot of people in WV anywhere. Down to TWO Congressional Districts. Even KY has seven. Net, SEC wants no part of them. They're lucky to be in B12 even.

 

[clevenger32]

Respectfully, WVU isn't a pull in the DC market. There are some commuters, but a lot of those folks didn't grow up in WVa and aren't WVU fans to begin with.

Ok

 

[March 22]

I think the SEC has to make a move. I think they will. I honestly think they may poach a couple more from the Big12 and then wait for the ACC legal battle to play out and take 2-4 from there.

There are no schools left in the Big 12 that wouldn't be a dilution of the conference, imo. At this point, it's ACC or bust.

I think the SEC commits to 8 ACC teams, or enough schools to vote for a repeal of the Grant of Rights. That may, unfortunately, need to include the U and the toothed red pigeons.

 

[vhcat70]

I think the SEC has to make a move. I think they will. I honestly think they may poach a couple more from the Big12 and then wait for the ACC legal battle to play out and take 2-4 from there.

I think SEC will do what it has always done: Let schools come to them & thus not be part of breaking up another conference.

I honestly don't think SEC needs more schools. They have the best teams & most eyes now & that's not changing. That said, I think they add 4 that bring more $/school than today.

 

[vhcat70]

There are no schools left in the Big 12 that wouldn't be a dilution of the conference, imo. At this point, it's ACC or bust.

I think the SEC commits to 8 ACC teams, or enough schools to vote for a repeal of the Grant of Rights. That may, unfortunately, need to include the U and the toothed red pigeons.

UK will force the SEC to stay at 16 before allowing LV in.

 

[JHB4UK]

The SEC doesn't have to do a damn thing. This is about money boys & girls. The SEC TV contract is held by ESPN. They own the ACC tv.

So why would ESPN let 2 or 4 or 8 ACC teams leave their cheap TV deal to get paid at the huge SEC TV rate? What kind of business sense does that make? And who says any ACC team is worth SEC TV money anyway? FSU, Clemson, last time I checked the conference already had teams in those 2 states. Teams from North Carolina or Virginia sound nice, except none of em care about CFB as much as any SEC program.

Now ain't the time to panic at the Big 10's left wing additions. Let's see if they can actually swallow what they but off.

 

[Cat06]

The eastern panhandle is part of the DC metropolitan statistical area and Media market that is how. Lots of commuters live in WVa.

Then commuters are watching in WV, not DC.

 

[BigRedMachineBigBlueNation]

The PAC is dead?

 

[March 22]

UK will force the SEC to stay at 16 before allowing LV in.

With all due respect, UK is not really in the position to force the SEC to do anything going forward. We'll just want to smile, play nice and do just about anything to remain in the filthy rich club.

 

[blue cincy]

I do not see SEC taking all of the ACC but who knows at this point. It is all money driven. If FSU and Clemson were to bolt to Big10 it would kill ESPN.

 

[Grumpyolddawg]

I think SEC will do what it has always done: Let schools come to them & thus not be part of breaking up another conference.

I honestly don't think SEC needs more schools. They have the best teams & most eyes now & that's not changing. That said, I think they add 4 that bring more $/school than today.

I don't think it's so much want more school is they don't want the Big10 in Florida or Georgia. IF they can get out of that deal I think SEC would bring in Miami, FSU, GT. The 4th not sure, Clemson feels they will be in, but what do they bring, good football, but very little in way of adding to the footprint, and SC isn't a recruiting hotbed, why invite them? A NC team would increase the footprint, quite a few high in recruiting there. Louisville is like CU, only less. Now if we have to bring 8 to get the votes, I guess CU and Louisvill would be 2, the other 2 I just don't know, don't need 2 from NC but I guess NC & NC ST and Louisville? Just a thought, but I don't think SEC wants Big10 in FL or GA. Schools that recruit there don't either, only 2-3 hit the south hard now, but with teams there they will all come.

 

[12375CAT]

I have been trying to work through scenarios where the ACC finds 8 teams to dissolve the conference. That is the only way to make it work. The exit fee + grant of rights means no single team is going to be able to afford to make that jump. This, of course, would also involve the TV partners willing to offer money to bring these teams onboard. For the Big 10, I see UVA, UNC, Miami and Georgia Tech. The first three in this scenario make sense. They all fit the Big 10 profile. Tech is stretch, but it would be the only way to get the other three schools out. It is basically bringing UCLA along with USC. From that point, Notre Dame is left with no options, and I see them jumping on the Big 10 bandwagon along with Stanford to bring them to 24 teams.

The SEC is a little less clear. The best option would be FSU, Clemson, VA Tech and NC State. The Hokies are the only team of that four that makes a lot of sense. Big fan base, new territory in a populous state, already have a good TV presence. NC State is a slightly smaller version of VA Tech. Clemson and FSU I don't know about. They have a big market share in the ACC. I don't know if that would translate to the SEC. But again, if it is going to happen this makes sense. I don't see anyone else on the landscape that the SEC would want at this point, so I think they stay at 20 teams.

From there, my guess would be that both leagues start playing 10 conference games a year in order to offer more inventory to their media partners. It would also allow them to adopt a more NFL structure for each conference where they are split into 4 pods that play each other annually and then rotate around the other games.

I am not certain if this sort of scenario is going to make things better or worse for College Football, but it looks like it is inevitable. The money to be made, and the stability that it brings is just too great for the schools to ignore.

The ONLY way 8 ACC teams destroy the conference is if all 8 of them get firm offers from the SEC & B10.

 

[HCaulfield]

I think we're seeing the first evolution of some schools/conferences phasing out of "collegiate" athletics into some sort of pro tier just below the NFL, NBA, etc...kind of a euro model where athletics and school are conjoined.

Overseas there are the big boys, and then there are the leagues comprised of all the little clubs from smaller towns.

That's what the top level of D1 has become. There are about 40 programs who have clearly pulled away from everyone else competitively on the field in terms of talent, coaching, media coverage, general fan interest, and money making/spending. They're not big boy pro like NFL, NBA...but they're clearly on another level than the rest of the NCAA.

I think ultimately the conferences are going to continue to merge/consolidate/realign to where essentially a big "BCS" League forms and splits from NCAA.

The way things are trending it looks like the SEC/B10 are going to be that league. Whoever they take in over the next few years makes the cut. I don't even know if the B12 can compete at this point, they're down their two biggest brands.

Question is does whatever remains of PAC, ACC, and B12 try to make some sort of 3rd tier pro/semi pro or do they fall back to more traditional NCAA?

Do the owners of UK football want to be in the group of 40?

 

[Cat_Man_Blue]

I have been trying to work through scenarios where the ACC finds 8 teams to dissolve the conference. That is the only way to make it work. The exit fee + grant of rights means no single team is going to be able to afford to make that jump. This, of course, would also involve the TV partners willing to offer money to bring these teams onboard. For the Big 10, I see UVA, UNC, Miami and Georgia Tech. The first three in this scenario make sense. They all fit the Big 10 profile. Tech is stretch, but it would be the only way to get the other three schools out. It is basically bringing UCLA along with USC. From that point, Notre Dame is left with no options, and I see them jumping on the Big 10 bandwagon along with Stanford to bring them to 24 teams.

The SEC is a little less clear. The best option would be FSU, Clemson, VA Tech and NC State. The Hokies are the only team of that four that makes a lot of sense. Big fan base, new territory in a populous state, already have a good TV presence. NC State is a slightly smaller version of VA Tech. Clemson and FSU I don't know about. They have a big market share in the ACC. I don't know if that would translate to the SEC. But again, if it is going to happen this makes sense. I don't see anyone else on the landscape that the SEC would want at this point, so I think they stay at 20 teams.

From there, my guess would be that both leagues start playing 10 conference games a year in order to offer more inventory to their media partners. It would also allow them to adopt a more NFL structure for each conference where they are split into 4 pods that play each other annually and then rotate around the other games.

I am not certain if this sort of scenario is going to make things better or worse for College Football, but it looks like it is inevitable. The money to be made, and the stability that it brings is just too great for the schools to ignore.

I am in agreement with you, especially the 10 game coference schedule. I will add that there is no way the SEC and ESPN want to loose the best properties to the B1G. I think the 3 most valuable properties in the ACC are FSU, Clemson & UNC. The forth most valuable team in te ACC would either be Miami or UV.

The SEC doesn't have to do a damn thing. This is about money boys & girls. The SEC TV contract is held by ESPN. They own the ACC tv.

So why would ESPN let 2 or 4 or 8 ACC teams leave their cheap TV deal to get paid at the huge SEC TV rate? What kind of business sense does that make? And who says any ACC team is worth SEC TV money anyway? FSU, Clemson, last time I checked the conference already had teams in those 2 states. Teams from North Carolina or Virginia sound nice, except none of em care about CFB as much as any SEC program.

Now ain't the time to panic at the Big 10's left wing additions. Let's see if they can actually swallow what they but off.

The SEC doesn't have to do a damn thing. This is about money boys & girls. The SEC TV contract is held by ESPN. They own the ACC tv.

So why would ESPN let 2 or 4 or 8 ACC teams leave their cheap TV deal to get paid at the huge SEC TV rate? What kind of business sense does that make? And who says any ACC team is worth SEC TV money anyway? FSU, Clemson, last time I checked the conference already had teams in those 2 states. Teams from North Carolina or Virginia sound nice, except none of em care about CFB as much as any SEC program.

Now ain't the time to panic at the Big 10's left wing additions. Let's see if they can actually swallow what they but off.

Here is why ESPN would do that. ESPN makes money on those ACC teams. If they end up in the B1G, the SEC won't make any money on those teams.

 

[clevenger32]

Then commuters are watching in WV, not DC.

Thanks for the update

 

[vhcat70]

With all due respect, UK is not really in the position to force the SEC to do anything going forward. We'll just want to smile, play nice and do just about anything to remain in the filthy rich club.

Unless the SEC changes its unanimous vote requirement to admit new schools, yes they are the that position. How else did the SEC wind up with the inferior 8 games schedule in 2024 if it wasn't for UK?

 

[UKnCincy]

Unless the SEC changes its unanimous vote requirement to admit new schools, yes they are the that position. How else did the SEC wind up with the inferior 8 games schedule in 2024 if it wasn't for UK?

Admitting new schools doesn’t require a unanimous vote. It requires three-fourths of the schools to vote in support.

And UK wasn’t the only school in favor of keeping the 8 game schedule.

 

[March 22]

Admitting new schools doesn’t require a unanimous vote. It requires three-fourths of the schools to vote in support.

And UK wasn’t the only school in favor of keeping the 8 game schedule.

https://a.espncdn.com/sec/media/2022/2022-23 SEC Bylaws.pdf

Page 3

 

[JHB4UK]

Kind of a silly debate fellas, Louisville would be the 10th choice out of the ACC if the SEC were shopping.

Our little brothers future destiny is where Washington State and Oregon State are today

 

[vhcat70]

Admitting new schools doesn’t require a unanimous vote. It requires three-fourths of the schools to vote in support.

And UK wasn’t the only school in favor of keeping the 8 game schedule.

I stand corrected. Thanks.