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Our O-Line situation

Uncle Adolph

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Aug 9, 2019
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We were bad last season. The reports from the open scrimmage were not good. So is the talent just not there, is the O-Line Coach we brought back not good?
Hope we get better come fall. We can't blame Rich S anymore. Anybody else worried?
 
Personally I'm leaning towards the Justin Rowland theory....our last 3 OL recruiting class guys were over ranked/under performing. And out OL roster was recruited to play Eddie Gran zone blocking scheme, but are struggling to play the McVey/ Shanahan wide zone blocking.

If Yenser sucked Stoops would have fired him like Scan and Settle.
 
I don’t get Yenser to be honest….I always wondered why you’re firing Scangerello rhen keep Yenser. To me the Oline was easily worst unit on team last year

As far as talent goes…

1. Eli cox was fine under Wolford in his first year. Last year a mess
2. Horsey has been good under schlarman snd wolford and we move him to tackle for some ideas and tackle and guards were a mess
3. I still argue flax was a disaster and Buford solidly out played him. And yet here we sit again wjtb flax starting
4. Now we are going to believe Cox transfer from northern Illinois has talent issues when he was a top rated portal Oline
5. Schlarman took many lower rated kids in bunchy , Horsey, Stenberg, Fortner , etc early in their career snd got them to solid playable kids and by the time they got older we’re top notch Sec linemen.

Yenser looks like he csnt only teach but his decision making is questionable. I hope this isn’t going to be another year of tinkering with outside zone that messes us up. This year has too good a D imaging wjtb Wr core to let Oline screw up another good roster
 
I have to believe that Flax is ultimately not going to be the starter. Someone will step up and beat him out.

I also don't think that Yenser is solely the determiner of who starts. Coen indicates to me in his press conferences that he's fully aware of the OL and its personnel. With our struggles last year, I'm sure Stoops is focused on the OL, too.

Based on recruiting, we've got a healthy amount of OL talent. We just have to find the 8 or 9 who can actually play. I think we will but it appears to be an issue right now.
 
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Its early in spring, give them time. I will also mention that i honestly believe this years version of the Kentucky football defense has every chance to finish in the top 10 of total defense. At every level they look like an elite defense.

This is my thought as well. The OL takes major chemistry and communication. With guys leaving and new guys coming in.......coupled with several years of switching OC's......and now with a new QB. It's going to take time. It is a relief that our first 4 games is the easiest 1/3rd of our schedule.
 
We were bad last season. The reports from the open scrimmage were not good. So is the talent just not there, is the O-Line Coach we brought back not good?
Hope we get better come fall. We can't blame Rich S anymore. Anybody else worried?
The open scrimmage was a very small sample accrued against one of the SEC's best DLs. Many of our own fans still haven't grasped how good our defense is. But the numbers don't lie.

It is unquestionably true that 2022 was an outlier performance by our OL. I submit that our OL room was overwhelmed. New OC, new offense, new OL coach, loss of Kinnard and Fortner, underperformance by (inexperienced) Buford, titanic underperformance by overweight Goodwin. Not quite a perfect storm maybe, but looking back it was a tough hand for our OL.

To answer the question posed by the OP, one would need to know ahead of time what will happen next fall. The hope is that the arrival of Marques Cox and the move of Eli Cox back to RG will lead to significant improvement. That may or may not turn out to be true, but I can't see how we could conclude anything useful from one windy Saturday in March. My guess is that Stoops will add one more lineman from the portal in May. If so, maybe that would help, but I will give the OL some time under Coach Coen before forming conclusions.

As for Zach Yenser, the book is still out. It's a nice story to see a former colleague of John Schlarman come back home to Kentucky. But I was not sold when Yenser was hired, and 2022 did not help. At the end of the day, Yenser's fate will be decided by Coen, but Yenser is in bad need of a successful 2023 season with some player development victories. That doesn't mean it won't happen. A player's second season of heavy play often sees big improvement, which (in a best case scenario) could apply to Flax, Burton, Buford, and Wohlabaugh this year. Far too often, some of our fans sour on our football players early in their playing careers without understanding that time in the gym and subsequent experience are important in the development of college football players. Typically, our players get better with additional work and development, so it is not out of the question that our OL might improve significantly between now and next fall. One thing is for certain. Most players on our OL roster had nice offer sheets. These are not low upside athletes. Many other good coaching staffs wanted most of them. For those of you who pay attention to star ratings, Flax, Burton, Bingham, and Bowles were 4 stars while Buford and Hall were high 3 stars. Kenneth Horsey, Eli Cox, and Marques Cox already received citations for the quality of their play in prior seasons. So let's not be fooled by impatient pessimists into thinking this OL cannot be good. Don't give up. One way or another, this is still a developing story.
 
I still argue flax was a disaster and Buford solidly out played him. And yet here we sit again wjtb flax starting
I think Flax started out there in the scrimmage only because he was the starter there last year. No decision has been made yet. It's been reported by some that were there that Buford showed out and got some praise from the coaches. It's a work in progress and we've a lot of time to work this out.
 
Just feels like the more time passes since Schlarman, the more I realize we’re probably not finding as good of a line coach as him again
Coach was a all timer who loved being here.
This last year falls at the feet of stoops. He hired a coordinator who had been crap everywhere he’s ever been and surprise surprise was crap here too.

Yenser is in the same boat. Consistently crap gave him a job and to no one’s suprise he also is doing a crappy job here.
It really strikes me odd that people hire people who have done nothing but suck and expect them not to suck anymore.


I would’ve understood if either had had success. But Yenser was OL coach at KU with some of the worst lines in history with no success really at all but sure that’s the guy. B
 
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Just hold the brake's on Yenser, he has only been here one year... Give him this year to show improvement and see what happens...
I have my doubts also but am willing to give him some slack on last year... We had probably one f the worst O coordinators in UK history... So that alone may be the reason for what Yenser did last year... I am not expecting him to win O Line coach of the year but I am hoping for a big improvement...
Here's to hoping UKFB will have a great year...



GBB
 
Personally I'm leaning towards the Justin Rowland theory....our last 3 OL recruiting class guys were over ranked/under performing. And out OL roster was recruited to play Eddie Gran zone blocking scheme, but are struggling to play the McVey/ Shanahan wide zone blocking.

If Yenser sucked Stoops would have fired him like Scan and Settle.
The line was good during Coens first yr. All of a sudden they sucked last yr during 2 coaching changes. Scran may have been the problem, But I'm very skeptical of Yenzer
 
Personally I'm leaning towards the Justin Rowland theory....our last 3 OL recruiting class guys were over ranked/under performing. And out OL roster was recruited to play Eddie Gran zone blocking scheme, but are struggling to play the McVey/ Shanahan wide zone blocking.

If Yenser sucked Stoops would have fired him like Scan and Settle.
Definitely agree with your comment re the wide zone scheme.
 
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I don’t get Yenser to be honest….I always wondered why you’re firing Scangerello rhen keep Yenser. To me the Oline was easily worst unit on team last year
Yenser is here because Coen wants him here. And Coen wants him here because he believes in the wide zone.
Yenser looks like he csnt only teach but his decision making is questionable. I hope this isn’t going to be another year of tinkering with outside zone that messes us up. This year has too good a D imaging wjtb Wr core to let Oline screw up another good roster
csnt? Do you mean "not only can't teach"?

I'd say there is a 99% chance Coen will try the wide zone again.
 
The line was good during Coens first yr. All of a sudden they sucked last yr during 2 coaching changes. Scran may have been the problem, But I'm very skeptical of Yenzer
But that isn't totally fair, it was great in 21 because it had been great since 2016. Coen inherited a great O line, he didn't do much to create it. We lost 3 starters going into 22, 3rd O line coach in 3 yrs.
 
Personally I'm leaning towards the Justin Rowland theory....our last 3 OL recruiting class guys were over ranked/under performing. And out OL roster was recruited to play Eddie Gran zone blocking scheme, but are struggling to play the McVey/ Shanahan wide zone blocking.

If Yenser sucked Stoops would have fired him like Scan and Settle.
I don't know if we really get kids for outside zone vs. inside zone as far as HS recruits go....I think we are making up stuff to fit our own narratives.

Now I will agree, once you get an Oline you groom them to the system you plan to scheme.

But can anyone argue Goodwin, Bingham, Coby Keenum, etc... would not have been recruited to UK if inside vs. outside zone were the blocking scheme? Did it really matter? Grant Bingham, to me, looks exactly like nearly every guard we've had a UK in Stoops tenure.
 
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I think the zone blocking differences gets overblown. It's not a large enough distinction in skill sets to make an appreciable difference outside 1-3 elite front sevens, but even then those elite front sevens would cause you problems anyway.

SEC Stat Cat had a lot of data that the inside zone blocking was not very good in 2021 either and that CRod outperformed his OL. That same season the OL allowed 25 sacks which was better than last year but still average for the SEC. I was not sad to see Wolford depart for Alabama at the time.

I think the bigger issue is the last 2-3 recruiting classes did not develop as quickly as previous years. This impacts the starters but, equally important, also impacts team depth so you can't overcome recruiting busts, slower individual development, injuries, or bad match-ups.

Bottom line: I think the OL issues go back further than last year's wide zone blocking scheme.
 
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I think the zone blocking differences gets overblown. It's not a large enough distinction in skill sets to make an appreciable difference outside 1-3 elite front sevens, but even then those elite front sevens would cause you problems anyway.

I think the bigger issue is the last 2-3 recruiting classes did not develop as quickly as previous years. This impacts the starters but, equally important, also impacts team depth so you can't overcome recruiting busts, slower individual development, injuries, or bad match-ups.

Aside from the wide zone blocking stuff...SEC Stat Cat had a lot of data that the inside zone blocking was not very good in 2021 either and that CRod outperformed his OL. That same season the OL allowed 25 sacks which was better than last year but still average for the SEC. I was not sad to see Wolford depart for Alabama at the time.

Bottom line: I think the OL issues go back further than last year's wide zone blocking scheme.
Totally agree. Recruiting misses, recruiting busts, injuries have all contributed to the current state of affairs. It's not a coincidence that UK's early '24 commits are OL with heavy OL/visits continuing. It's not a coincidence UK has 7 or 8 PWO OL in their incoming '23 class. Plus another portal run is upcoming.

Finally, I'll throw out 2 names some haven't heard much about, C Luke Padgett and G Josh Jones. Wouldn't be surprised at all if they aren't in the OL rotation come Fall. Both are receiving a lot of practice snaps this Spring.
 
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I have to believe that Flax is ultimately not going to be the starter. Someone will step up and beat him out.

I also don't think that Yenser is solely the determiner of who starts. Coen indicates to me in his press conferences that he's fully aware of the OL and its personnel. With our struggles last year, I'm sure Stoops is focused on the OL, too.

Based on recruiting, we've got a healthy amount of OL talent. We just have to find the 8 or 9 who can actually play. I think we will but it appears to be an issue right now.

Can't base anything concerning OL off recruiting rankings, which are done by journalists instead of coaches. Even coaches miss because the guys SEC teams recruit are bigger than who they going against 99% of the time and never see anyone who can match their size and power until college.
 
I don’t get Yenser to be honest….I always wondered why you’re firing Scangerello rhen keep Yenser. To me the Oline was easily worst unit on team last year

As far as talent goes…

1. Eli cox was fine under Wolford in his first year. Last year a mess
2. Horsey has been good under schlarman snd wolford and we move him to tackle for some ideas and tackle and guards were a mess
3. I still argue flax was a disaster and Buford solidly out played him. And yet here we sit again wjtb flax starting
4. Now we are going to believe Cox transfer from northern Illinois has talent issues when he was a top rated portal Oline
5. Schlarman took many lower rated kids in bunchy , Horsey, Stenberg, Fortner , etc early in their career snd got them to solid playable kids and by the time they got older we’re top notch Sec linemen.

Yenser looks like he csnt only teach but his decision making is questionable. I hope this isn’t going to be another year of tinkering with outside zone that messes us up. This year has too good a D imaging wjtb Wr core to let Oline screw up another good roster
I was to told by a good source that Bufords issue and the reason he isn't playing is do to learning his assignments. Though it looked like he was better in his two starts he missed a lot of assignments
 
What’s Austin Dotson doing these days? I would hire him to kick our guys in the nuts and spit Cope in their eye.

Stoops has said it a lot, we gotta get our identity back. We gotta get tough and physical. We haven’t seen anything resembling that from this current OL. They are not “dudes”.
 
What’s Austin Dotson doing these days? I would hire him to kick our guys in the nuts and spit Cope in their eye.

Stoops has said it a lot, we gotta get our identity back. We gotta get tough and physical. We haven’t seen anything resembling that from this current OL. They are not “dudes”.

Still think they messed up not begging him back for a covid year. Would've been a difference maker last year imo
 
Coach was a all timer who loved being here.
This last year falls at the feet of stoops. He hired a coordinator who had been crap everywhere he’s ever been and surprise surprise was crap here too.

Yenser is in the same boat. Consistently crap gave him a job and to no one’s suprise he also is doing a crappy job here.
It really strikes me odd that people hire people who have done nothing but suck and expect them not to suck anymore.


I would’ve understood if either had had success. But Yenser was OL coach at KU with some of the worst lines in history with no success really at all but sure that’s the guy. B
This is my take as well...

Young talent >>>> long-term survivors
 
-pass blocking is gonna look a helluva lot better this year with Leary at qb.
Can't really look any worse...

If you're implying that our previous, possible 1st Round draft QB wasn't good at picking up his reads quick enough, thereby causing him to be the most sacked SEC QB for several years in the running,

then...

If nothing changes on the O-Line, I suppose a few less sacks via a few quicker dumb-offs will make the O-line Coach look great...

A very low standard
 
Can't really look any worse...

If you're implying that our previous, possible 1st Round draft QB wasn't good at picking up his reads quick enough, thereby causing him to be the most sacked SEC QB for several years in the running,

then...

If nothing changes on the O-Line, I suppose a few less sacks via a few quicker dumb-offs will make the O-line Coach look great...

A very low standard

-first: I love #7, his toughness and athleticism are 2nd to none. He has a cannon. Glad he was "my" qb to root for for 2 years.

^but yes, he locked in on one receiver and was not the best at reading defenses. He took a *lot* of avoidable sacks...in the sec you get 3-4 seconds, gotta do something with the ball.

-the oc was garbage last year...didn't coach/scheme to Will's strength by all but abandoning the qb run and calling plays that took way too long to develop. Twas obvious.

-the oline wasn't great last year...which is odd because strong oline play is very much a "brand" at uk under CMS.

^as such, i believe much of that is scheme. Scang was a disaster...and yes #7 took some sacks he shouldn't have.

-it's a simplistic view to put all woes on the oline...without looking at the bigger picture.
 
he locked in on one receiver and was not the best at reading defenses. He took a *lot* of avoidable sacks...in the sec you get 3-4 seconds, gotta do something with the ball.
He also seemed reluctant to climb the pocket. If you look at some of the film you can see that the O-line did a decent job of setting the pocket but for whatever reason Levis would choose to back up or run laterally instead of stepping up, thus putting him in a compromising situation.
 
FB is a team sport more so than any other... I think the blame goes to both the O line and the QB, all the way back to the man calling the play's... The latter is the main one to blame, it's the OC job to know how fast a play should go not the QB or O line player's... Scank was the almost entirety of the blame... No it's not 100% his fault but at least 80-95% was on the OC...
Will did hold onto the ball too long at times or the line missed a lot of blocks a lot but the OC has to scheme play's to make it either go faster or to sprint out to make an open pass...
I was tired of Scank after the first two game I could tell it may be a very long year for UKFB... Hope this year is much better and I think it will be... Are we going to win all of them, (I hope), I don't think so but I hope we win at least 8-9 regular season games...


GBB
 
He also seemed reluctant to climb the pocket. If you look at some of the film you can see that the O-line did a decent job of setting the pocket but for whatever reason Levis would choose to back up or run laterally instead of stepping up, thus putting him in a compromising situation.


I think maybe some of that was he still had the 21 season in mind and he felt like he was going to sprint, but waited to long and remembered he was playing for an idiot OC who did not want him too....

GBB
 
He also seemed reluctant to climb the pocket. If you look at some of the film you can see that the O-line did a decent job of setting the pocket but for whatever reason Levis would choose to back up or run laterally instead of stepping up, thus putting him in a compromising situation.

-yup. Instead of stepping "into" the pocket... he'd peel off "into" a pass rusher. Again...I put this on the oc.
 
Don't think there is any question a direction of "stay in the pocket, don't scramble, get the ball to recievers!!" was drilled into Will's head last yr. Then the last 6 games of the season he was playing on a completely numb foot from a shot for his turf toe.
 
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We better not be running any zone blocking scheme. Coen tried to implement it his first stint and Stoops reversed it I think he said around 4 games in.

Last years zone was abysmal.

We don't have the type of lineman to run it and it's mind blowing that we're possibly trying Coen's version again.
 
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The line went from a top 25 grade to 130 on run blocking. it was worse than that pass blocking.

Even in Schlarmann's day, UK O-linemen had issues on the next level with Pass Block.

I think it's a case of lots of issues: missing former guys, miss grading some candidates. Attitude. Teamwork.
Changing blocking schemes: asking bulldozers to be dancing bears. Footwork. coaching. Offensive scheme.

just a perfect storm of 'this ain't right'

Can it get fixed in one year with a new OC but the same line coach with a couple new transfers and a couple guys switching positions?
I sure hope so.
Let's face it....the line play was so bad last year it would be twice as good and still a trainwreck in the SEC.

Fingers crossed, but I'm not getting super good vibes from the player interview and Stoops' blowup a week or two ago.
Let's hope the light comes on for these guys.
 
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