ADVERTISEMENT

Our inability to score in the tournament

So how does a middle of the road team get one free throw away from the final four ?
middle of the road CAL team. 2010 2011 2012 2014 2015 2017 teams were all better than this team which puts them in 7th place out of 9 teams. Id say thats'middle if not back end. You can debate maybe better than 2011 which could slide them to 6th, people just thought this team was better than it was bc we've been in a rut recently.
 
Last edited:
Teams generally start to pack it in and play tighter on defense.
Because we’re inexperienced, we play tight ourselves. Not to mention, we actually have very little to zero offensive sets that we run. It’s basically drive to the basket and throw it up or kick it out.

So the core of our problem is our youth..
 
When I think of Cal's offense, 3 straight shot clock violations in a tight end game final four situation always comes to mind. Are you kidding me?

Cal is not a great Xs and Os coach. I’d say there are easily 20 coaches ahead of him in this regard. Cal is however a master motivator, his teams will always fight. Having said that, in key situations during tournament play, I’m not convinced Cal’s coaching can get us another ship. We’re going to have to be more talented than the other team and will have to want it more.. something that can’t be said the last two years.
 
It all starts with pg play. They dictate the flow of the game. Hagans holds the ball too long sometimes 15 seconds into possessions. He dribbles around instead of passing and moving wo the ball. He isn’t the only one though we’ve had others like that in the past. When quickly was in he brouht the ball yo but siding hold it. When you have stud athletes you should be playing more of a possession type game moving the ball and trying to wear down an opponent. When the pg holds it he chokes off the offensive flow so all looks are contested. Like I’ve said we beat our selves last Sunday gave the game away and it’s not the first time. Tried to give Houston the game too
 
It all starts with pg play. They dictate the flow of the game. Hagans holds the ball too long sometimes 15 seconds into possessions. He dribbles around instead of passing and moving wo the ball. He isn’t the only one though we’ve had others like that in the past. When quickly was in he brouht the ball yo but siding hold it. When you have stud athletes you should be playing more of a possession type game moving the ball and trying to wear down an opponent. When the pg holds it he chokes off the offensive flow so all looks are contested. Like I’ve said we beat our selves last Sunday gave the game away and it’s not the first time. Tried to give Houston the game too

Hagans reminded me of Rondo in ‘05 against MSU. Teams dared him to shoot from deep and always held the ball until there was only 8 seconds left. Very poor basketball for an elite team. We still should have finished that game off, so frustrating.
 
We miss and need players like Knight, Jones, Randle and Teague. Players that can get you points or shots outside the offense and without much help. Who can beat you off the dribble, get their own perimeter shot or enough offensive moves to get buckets when nobody else can.

When we lose in the tournament we usually can’t score, our best years have defense and that player who can get themselves open or doubled to hit an open teammate. One dimensionals don’t help as much, like Murray who could shoot but lacked driving or Fox who could drive but not shoot. You don’t have to be a dynamic offense but you need that one guy at least.
 
I don’t know how you can win 6 straight coaching like this unless you have Anthony Davis. Look at our 2013-14 team. Scored like 54 points in the title game. That was our “tweak” season. Cal just let them play in the tournament. He had to. Made it to the title game, and the same BS.
I agree. Why he doesn't just turn them loose and let them run is beyond me. We almost always have the better athletes and talent, but we play a deliberate pace. Only thing I can figure is he prefers a conventional style and banks on his halfcourt defense to get the win. I wish he would PRESS and always have!
 
middle of the road CAL team. 2010 2011 2012 2014 2015 2017 teams were all better than this team which puts them in 7th place out of 9 teams. Id say thats'middle if not back end. You can debate maybe better than 2011 which could slide them to 6th, people just thought this team was better than it was bc we've been in a rut recently.

I agree this is a middling Cal Team. 2010, 2012, 2014, 2015 would all win the title this year. Probably 11 and 17.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rupp'sRunt
Kev the sad part of this is KP has enough experience playing for Denny Crum to set up a pressing, uptempo game that would suit the type of athletes they recruit. Just believe Cal dosen't like that type of game. Seems like it would make sense.
You’re exactly right. For some reason, we want to slow everything down in theses tournament games.

Auburn’s defense sucked most of the season, so I’m really baffled why we wanted our offense to wait until ten seconds on the shot clock before we started to run something.

Another thing that keeps getting glossed over is the fact that Auburn was playing without their best player.

How we’re not looking forward to a game tomorrow is becoming more head scratching the closer it gets.
 
FG: 27-61 3 PT: 5-21 FT: 12-21

Shots weren’t dropping. I don’t think you can put it on Cal. Make one more basket in regulation or one more free throw and we win. One.

All true, but the same could be said of the 2011 (one made shot away), 2015 (last four minutes), 2017 ("one three pointer away"), and 2018 (tied with under a minute to go) finishes.

I don't entirely blame Cal, but it's clear those teams tightened up down the stretch. More experience might solve that problem.
 
I don’t know how you can win 6 straight coaching like this unless you have Anthony Davis. Look at our 2013-14 team. Scored like 54 points in the title game. That was our “tweak” season. Cal just let them play in the tournament. He had to. Made it to the title game, and the same BS.
Mike, I get absolutely hammered here anytime I question John.

I have said this before and I’ll say it again.

Cal is by far our best option all things considered.

However, he frustrates the living feces out of me at times.
 
Mike, I get absolutely hammered here anytime I question John.

I have said this before and I’ll say it again.

Cal is by far our best option all things considered.

However, he frustrates the living feces out of me at times.
I've been reminded a time or two that Cal is a HOF coach but if a writer went around interviewing HOF coaches he could write a thick book detailing their blunders. All coaches have things that they wish they could do over.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ukfan041
This is common for Cal.

Do some of you even pay attention?

He likes Rock Fights.

Best thing about playing Carolina is it won't be a rock fight. Cal is just short of Roy in scoring around Christmas and becomes Bruce Webber in March.

This needs to change.
WOW Great analysis and analogy. Cal just micro manages every possession during NCAA. He called almost every set on offense from 2nd round. Look at the stores of the missteps. Only a buffoon would say otherwise and not say Cal's offense has cost UK 2 NC's and possibly more, It is the same game that always beat them. That 62--59 game or the Inexcusable shot clock running out 3 times by your PG and 2G. Every NCAA losses feel the same and almost identical.
Duke loses 82-80 or 75-71. If UK would lose like they played their game than fine or they lose on a 3 pointer. These mucked up games always put pressure on UK and every possession. Just don't play free enough in NCAA.
 
Regarding this year's team, I didn't think it was very talented but was well coached most of the season. The Auburn game was a disaster. I get the Reid Travis love due to him being a great person, but the team destroyed Auburn playing without him and Reid logged 44 minutes. Montgomery/PJ would've played more together and I'd have gone PJ at the 5 and Keldon at the 4 in a small ball lineup. Cal didn't attempt that at all and he let Auburn dictate things in screen roll/which destroyed Travis. When you squeak by 2 pts and lose by 6 playing certain personnel, and win by 30 without a guy, at least give a different lineup a look-you weren't getting anything offensively from Travis and defensively he wasn't built for that type of opponent.

But hindsight doesn't matter. Game/Season is over. Also, never understood why in the 37th game of the year Ashton Hagans was so tentative? Cal was chewing out Nick Richards and Hagans was staring over waiting for his instructions instead of just playing. If you can't run a set by this time of year, doesn't speak to his confidence being very high or ability to read what is going on in the game.

Maxey paired with Hagans would be ideal because Maxey is assertive, but see some comparing him to Fox, which isn't anything similar. They'd feed off each other and if you can get Herro to return with them, it's perfect trio on perimeter.
 
Lack of scorers. Johnson had a horrible shooting % in March, and missed 500 front end of 1 and 1s
 
Regarding this year's team, I didn't think it was very talented but was well coached most of the season. The Auburn game was a disaster. I get the Reid Travis love due to him being a great person, but the team destroyed Auburn playing without him and Reid logged 44 minutes. Montgomery/PJ would've played more together and I'd have gone PJ at the 5 and Keldon at the 4 in a small ball lineup. Cal didn't attempt that at all and he let Auburn dictate things in screen roll/which destroyed Travis. When you squeak by 2 pts and lose by 6 playing certain personnel, and win by 30 without a guy, at least give a different lineup a look-you weren't getting anything offensively from Travis and defensively he wasn't built for that type of opponent.

But hindsight doesn't matter. Game/Season is over. Also, never understood why in the 37th game of the year Ashton Hagans was so tentative? Cal was chewing out Nick Richards and Hagans was staring over waiting for his instructions instead of just playing. If you can't run a set by this time of year, doesn't speak to his confidence being very high or ability to read what is going on in the game.

Maxey paired with Hagans would be ideal because Maxey is assertive, but see some comparing him to Fox, which isn't anything similar. They'd feed off each other and if you can get Herro to return with them, it's perfect trio on perimeter.
I agree with you almost always. But I'm just not impressed with Hagans whatsoever. Ryan Harrow is the only thing keeping him from being Cals worst point guard, possibly ever . I'd take Quickly & Maxey over Hagans & Maxey.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ralphdaltonfan
I agree with you almost always. But I'm just not impressed with Hagans whatsoever. Ryan Harrow is the only thing keeping him from being Cals worst point guard, possibly ever . I'd take Quickly & Maxey over Hagans & Maxey.

Don't disagree with your ranking and I'll say something that most disagree with, I am not fond of Atlanta prospects. They peak in HS and are interesting personalities. Always exceptions to the rule, but most kids from Atlanta either avoid the big stage or get shook when they are on it. Hagans was shook at end of year, which is why I do think Maxey's presence would help. They wanted to play together and Maxey has a confidence and personality that gets best out of others. But you could very well be correct....because I am not high on Hagans either.
 
Regarding this year's team, I didn't think it was very talented but was well coached most of the season. The Auburn game was a disaster. I get the Reid Travis love due to him being a great person, but the team destroyed Auburn playing without him and Reid logged 44 minutes. Montgomery/PJ would've played more together and I'd have gone PJ at the 5 and Keldon at the 4 in a small ball lineup. Cal didn't attempt that at all and he let Auburn dictate things in screen roll/which destroyed Travis. When you squeak by 2 pts and lose by 6 playing certain personnel, and win by 30 without a guy, at least give a different lineup a look-you weren't getting anything offensively from Travis and defensively he wasn't built for that type of opponent.

But hindsight doesn't matter. Game/Season is over. Also, never understood why in the 37th game of the year Ashton Hagans was so tentative? Cal was chewing out Nick Richards and Hagans was staring over waiting for his instructions instead of just playing. If you can't run a set by this time of year, doesn't speak to his confidence being very high or ability to read what is going on in the game.

Maxey paired with Hagans would be ideal because Maxey is assertive, but see some comparing him to Fox, which isn't anything similar. They'd feed off each other and if you can get Herro to return with them, it's perfect trio on perimeter.
Second half Travis was a non factor on offense and a liability on defense
 
Second half Travis was a non factor on offense and a liability on defense

Thought Travis was trying too hard/feeling the nerves a bit last weekend--against Houston he was throwing balls he got offensive rebounds out with nobody contesting if he'd have gone up with it. We're in full agreement on Auburn game, and BBN is amazing because he's seen a lot differently in other circles as a player then how Cal/BBN have lauded him. Credit to the program and fans for that. Great place to play. He's a tremendous person, but my take is UK wins comfortably if he played 25 minutes and UK threw more size/athleticism at Auburn. But nothing can fix it now.
 
  • Like
Reactions: crestcat
Thought Travis was trying too hard/feeling the nerves a bit last weekend--against Houston he was throwing balls he got offensive rebounds out with nobody contesting if he'd have gone up with it. We're in full agreement on Auburn game, and BBN is amazing because he's seen a lot differently in other circles as a player then how Cal/BBN have lauded him. Credit to the program and fans for that. Great place to play. He's a tremendous person, but my take is UK wins comfortably if he played 25 minutes and UK threw more size/athleticism at Auburn. But nothing can fix it now.
I was at the game and sitting eight rows behind the UK bench. Trust me when I say that Cal might as well have castrated Tyler in the second half.

He kept screaming to get the ball inside. Herro was scared to death to even think about creating any offense on his own.

Despite this trending nonsense, we still should have won the game. Hagans played so badly I felt sorry for him. PJ choked again at the free throw line. But, without PJ, we wouldn’t have even been in the game in the first place.
 
Can anyone explain this to me?

After the first round, we scored 62 points every game during regulation. Looking back on the entire season, we only scored 62 points or less one time. One time. So how do we make it all the way to the tournament, and have 3 straight games of our lowest outputs of the season? That is a direct reflection of Cal. He doesn’t coach the same in the tournament. He just doesn’t.[/QUOTE
Its over get ready for next season......
 
We usually only have a couple of good shooters and at least one or both will have an off game or two in the tournament. Cal either doesn't find the best consistent shooters available that will come here, doesn't worry about having to get many good shooters, values jumping and athletic ability more and gets any player that has a 5 by his name that will come here regardless of offensive ability.

It is amazing how there are so many highly rated players that don't have a good offensive game. And we seem to get a lot of players that have already been picked over by other offensive minded coaches.
 
1) You can play hard defensively and play well on the offensive end, to suggest playing hard D effects your offensive game isn't true.

2) Auburn guards were hitting shots and we weren't guarding them. IDT Auburns playing on some high level, UVA will shut them down.

3) At the end of the day this was just a middle of the road Cal team and no one wants to admit it
I agree. We had the right pieces, but, Nick didn’t improve, nor EJ, Hagans regressed. Coaches learned take Hero out, double team PJ, hence, early exit.
 
I hate to even bring it up, but one thing Pitino stressed during tourney play was play freely and take more chances......I think he knew by conveying this, his guys would play looser and play to win and not to lose

I took a little time and dug up NCAAT scores for both....RP averaged 87 points in NCAAT games and Cal has averaged 69......of course not clamoring for RP by any means, but Cal needs to maybe take a similar approach come tourney time
Cal does tighten up for whatever reason, slows it down and then we miss freakin free throws.
 
  • Like
Reactions: crestcat
The tourney is like golf. The closer you get the more pressure there is and the more accurate you have to be. Things seem to grind down to a crawl. That's what Cal prepares his teams for. This one just choked at the wrong time due to youth.
 
I was at the game and sitting eight rows behind the UK bench. Trust me when I say that Cal might as well have castrated Tyler in the second half.

He kept screaming to get the ball inside. Herro was scared to death to even think about creating any offense on his own.

Despite this trending nonsense, we still should have won the game. Hagans played so badly I felt sorry for him. PJ choked again at the free throw line. But, without PJ, we wouldn’t have even been in the game in the first place.
Cal admits he was yelling at Herro to drive it when Herro hit the game winning 3 against Houston. That alone reveals Cals offensive philosophy. He needs to adapt his offensive philosophy if wants another title. imo
 
1) You can play hard defensively and play well on the offensive end, to suggest playing hard D effects your offensive game isn't true.

2) Auburn guards were hitting shots and we weren't guarding them. IDT Auburns playing
on some high level, UVA will shut them down.

3) At the end of the day this was just a middle of the road Cal team and no one wants to admit it

1) Ask Tyler how he felt after chasing McGee all over the court. He said he was gasssd. And that it affected some of his shooting. So yes. You can still play high quality offense but for freshman? It’s hard to do.

2). Auburn is playing decent ball right now. Are they world beaters? No. But they just knocked three of the most winningest programs in history out of the tournament. You must be doing something right.

3). If middle of the road gets us an E8 appearance? Then Ca has underachieved and should be run out of town. This team was good. And if Reid hadn’t been hurt and thrown off rhythm for a few weeks? We’d be playing tomorrow.
 
Well, we were missing PJ the first 2 games. That's the first thing. Houston is very good defensively and Auburn played great D as well, with the "foul every possession and know they can't or won't call them all" strategy. And our shots just weren't falling from 3. There is no way around acknowledging that. But that is not a function of poor offense. It's a function of poor shooting. Those shots were open for the most part and not forced, but they just weren't falling. Herro did end the season with a slump, outside that huge shot he made to answer Houston's 3 late in that game. He just didn't shoot it well from outside in the tournament, which is disappointing.
 
I was at the game and sitting eight rows behind the UK bench. Trust me when I say that Cal might as well have castrated Tyler in the second half.

He kept screaming to get the ball inside. Herro was scared to death to even think about creating any offense on his own.

Despite this trending nonsense, we still should have won the game. Hagans played so badly I felt sorry for him. PJ choked again at the free throw line. But, without PJ, we wouldn’t have even been in the game in the first place.

I honestly can’t imagine another coach in the country at any level not doing anything they can to get Herro involved in the offense. This makes sense to me now as Herro did not take any 3 pointers in the 2nd half and took one 20 footer. Thought Herro could have pulled the trigger a few times but passed on the shot and now understand why. I’ve made my sentiments on this issue in other threads so not rehashing here but bottom line it’s not the team, we have a common denominator for 10 years and every March is this way so not hard to figure out.
 
  • Like
Reactions: crestcat
I hate to even bring it up, but one thing Pitino stressed during tourney play was play freely and take more chances......I think he knew by conveying this, his guys would play looser and play to win and not to lose

I took a little time and dug up NCAAT scores for both....RP averaged 87 points in NCAAT games and Cal has averaged 69......of course not clamoring for RP by any means, but Cal needs to maybe take a similar approach come tourney time

This plus RP had a team full of shooters most years. Please Cal, recruit more shooters. The problem this year is we had 1 shooter on the team and he was cold.
 
I was at the game and sitting eight rows behind the UK bench. Trust me when I say that Cal . . . He kept screaming to get the ball inside. Herro was scared to death to even think about creating any offense on his own. . . Despite this trending nonsense, we still should have won the game. . . .
Thanks, that puts some things in perspective. We were concerned at home that the players were so focused on the shouting that they weren’t playing freely.
Is there any truth to the reports that ref Roberts was heckling Cal during a time out? I know Cal got 2 warnings and also had to tell his staff to stay quiet for fear of a T. Just curious if you witnessed any of the tension between the refs and Cal.
 
When a team gets fouling immunity for the last 9 minutes of a game, that can happen. . . .
Well said! Since you created that Thread, I have compiled stats for Auburn in the SEC and NCAA tournaments, plus Elight Eight games for this year and last. No other game came anywhere close to having one team called for zero fouls in the final 9:17.
Yes, they certainly were given fouling immunity. And it mattered.
 
We don’t run and push the ball in transition in the tournament...we GRIND.
 
Shooting 27 percent from behind the arc in the four NCAA games will do that.

For anyone who wants a change in approach when it comes to recruiting, this should be at the top of adjustments to be made.

2019: 27%
2018: 30%

It's nice to bring in the elite recruits but if you can't at least put a couple of shooters out there to spread the floor in today's game, it can difficult to go far.
 
It is not even up for debate anymore that Cal is a defense first coach and either doesn't have the same acumen or interest in offense. His default is to get thoroughbreds and to let them run relatively unbridled. I love the players he gets, I love being in it just about every year, and I think he's great with player and the community. That being said I don't see another title for a while unless there is a significant change.
 
  • Like
Reactions: lmhurst
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT