No one talking about the UHC CEO murder?

[WayneDougan]

You don't think UHC lobbies the shit out of congress to continue to put us through the grinder while they generate (checks notes) 371B in revenue in 2023?

Hell, I guarantee you can find a picture of this particular CEO with nearly every famous member of congress. When people talk about big brother, they're often talking about more than just the government, and this is an excellent example.

This is an oroboros situation at this point, no one is absolved from blame (before some political nutjob tries to misunderstand me, this particular CEO did not deserve to die, nor did any other healthcare CEO, but they definitely deserve to be forced to have their healthcare managed by their own insurance company as a common person would, and that might as well be a death sentence these days).

I would argue it’s just the end state of the 3rd party payer problem. At the end of the day, patients want unlimited healthcare at no cost to them, hospitals want insurance companies to pay for unlimited healthcare, insurance companies don’t want to pay for it.

 

[WayneDougan]

Maybe this is societies way of sending a "shot across the bow" so to speak. Again, it's sad that it has to end in someone losing their life. But I've posted in a few various threads now talking about how the common man is literally on the brink. If you keep expanding the number of amount of families living paycheck to paycheck, while multi-millionaire/billionaires like this guy buy another yacht, then eventually someone is going to snap and take matters into their own hands.

I wouldn't be shocked if this happens again.

Health care wasn’t even an issue this election cycle.

 

[ukcatz12]

No surprise. 26 year old Ivy league Liberal deadbeat that hates corporate America. Probably watched too much Liberal scum TV, thinks everyone's a "Nazi" and lost it.

Why are you blaming this on liberals? I have seen people from both sides of the aisle basically shrug their shoulders and say "oh well the guy probably had it coming." This isn't a political thing. Why not try addressing the actual comment you replied to instead of making it into a political blame game.

Do you think it is morally acceptable for a company that makes tens of billions of dollars every year to put systems in place to deny more and more claims to further boost their profits while causing poor and middle class people die from lack of care or go bankrupt by healthcare bills?

It's a pretty simply yes or no answer.

 

[CatsFanGG24]

Maybe this is societies way of sending a "shot across the bow" so to speak. Again, it's sad that it has to end in someone losing their life. But I've posted in a few various threads now talking about how the common man is literally on the brink. If you keep expanding the number of amount of families living paycheck to paycheck, while multi-millionaire/billionaires like this guy buy another yacht, then eventually someone is going to snap and take matters into their own hands.

I wouldn't be shocked if this happens again.

The killer (suspected), was in no way shape or form close to being a "common man". $30-$40k K-12 schooling, ivy league etc.

Moreso seems ideologically radicalized.

 

[WayneDougan]

Do you think it is morally acceptable for a company that makes tens of billions of dollars every year to put systems in place to deny more and more claims to further boost their profiles while causing poor and middle class people die from lack of care or go bankrupt by healthcare bills?

It's a pretty simply yes or no answer.

Yes, I 100% do. Because there is unlimited demand for “free” healthcare. Your premiums would be 10X the insane amount they already are if they approved all claims. The entire system is f’d and it’s going to take significant regulatory changes to fix it.

 

[ukcatz12]

Maybe this is societies way of sending a "shot across the bow" so to speak. Again, it's sad that it has to end in someone losing their life. But I've posted in a few various threads now talking about how the common man is literally on the brink. If you keep expanding the number of amount of families living paycheck to paycheck, while multi-millionaire/billionaires like this guy buy another yacht, then eventually someone is going to snap and take matters into their own hands.

I wouldn't be shocked if this happens again.

Wealth inequality in the US is worse now than it was in France just before their revolution. I think it's probably time people realize this isn't a political debate. Lower, middle, and upper middle class people on both sides of the aisle are on the same team here. There's a ruling class in this country that tries to frame everything as a left vs. right fight so we stay distracted while the 0.01% of people continue to concentrate their wealth and power so the system can never be changed.

 

[ukcatz12]

The killer (suspected), was in no way shape or form close to being a "common man". $30-$40k K-12 schooling, ivy league etc.

Moreso seems ideologically radicalized.

What you guys need to realize is an upper middle class person who attended private school is a common man. They have a lot more in common with a blue collar middle class worker in Ohio than they do with the billionaire class who lobbies congress. This isn't a left vs. right fight, it's the 99.99% vs. the 0.01%.

 

[Cold Stout Beer]

The killer (suspected), was in no way shape or form close to being a "common man". $30-$40k K-12 schooling, ivy league etc.

Moreso seems ideologically radicalized.

Little Bi*ch Liberal rich boy who hates himself and everbody else because his loser party told him to. Started with Obama.

 

[JDHoss]

You honestly celebrated a man you don't know anything about being killed because of his job?

Weird flex. Government has more negative impact on all our lives.

No, I smiled and chuckled. I had a couple of friends who have had some bad dealings with health insurance companies who were borderline celebratory.

 

[Irish Beck]

I would argue it’s just the end state of the 3rd party payer problem. At the end of the day, patients want unlimited healthcare at no cost to them, hospitals want insurance companies to pay for unlimited healthcare, insurance companies don’t want to pay for it.

So where is the unlimited healthcare for free you are talking about then? I've, thankfully, avoided most medical needs in the past 15 years but have had to haggle over crazy exorbitant fees for my wife's stay for childbirth (2x). We paid extra for bridge insurance as both of our kids were planned and still came out of pocket roughly $5k each time. My wife was paying $500 a month for her coverage at the time plus the $150 bridge plan. So I would argue people want healthcare when they need it and would, rightfully, feel pissed when they pay a heavy premium and still get a bill for the healthcare they received.

Somewhere between "unlimited" healthcare and "371B in revenue" is where you want to be but I have a hard time believing the people who want "unlimited" healthcare (or, as it is colloquially called, healthcare) are some kind of greedy assholes compared to a company that made enough revenue to be the 44th country in GDP this year, while still profiting 12-16 billion along the way.

Then you have hospitals and doctors offices that can't itemize a damn thing because even they don't know what they will charge so they just jack up the price to mickey mouse numbers until you call them on their shit.

It's a joke.

 

[CatsFanGG24]

What you guys need to realize is an upper middle class person who attended private school is a common man. They have a lot more in common with a blue collar middle class worker in Ohio than they do with the billionaire class who lobbies congress. This isn't a left vs. right fight, it's the 99.99% vs. the 0.01%.

$35k 1st grade…$40k high school is not middle class. Sorry. I’ll stick with radicalized.

Many in the US do like to find a boogeyman. Being a victim plays.

Imperfect system for sure…but rationalizing cowardly murder is wild for some to do. Even see losers like JDHoss in this thread who smile and laughed as murder. Weird.

Has insurance ever been beneficial financially for someone in poor health circumstances?

 

[Glenn's take]

Since we're offing CEOs with predatory business ethics can we get 1 or 2 from Ticketmaster?

 

[Cold Stout Beer]

What a country we live in now. Liberals preach gun control but they cheer when one of their very own shoots someone dead, that they've never even met, in cold blood. Their hypocrisy and moral bankruptcy knows no bounds.

What a pack of losers that sadly breed and raise future filth.

 

[WayneDougan]

So where is the unlimited healthcare for free you are talking about then? I've, thankfully, avoided most medical needs in the past 15 years but have had to haggle over crazy exorbitant fees for my wife's stay for childbirth (2x). We paid extra for bridge insurance as both of our kids were planned and still came out of pocket roughly $5k each time. My wife was paying $500 a month for her coverage at the time plus the $150 bridge plan. So I would argue people want healthcare when they need it and would, rightfully, feel pissed when they pay a heavy premium and still get a bill for the healthcare they received.

Somewhere between "unlimited" healthcare and "371B in revenue" is where you want to be but I have a hard time believing the people who want "unlimited" healthcare (or, as it is colloquially called, healthcare) are some kind of greedy assholes compared to a company that made enough revenue to be the 44th country in GDP this year, while still profiting 12-16 billion along the way.

Then you have hospitals and doctors offices that can't itemize a damn thing because even they don't know what they will charge so they just jack up the price to mickey mouse numbers until you call them on their shit.

It's a joke.

Unlimited is “as much as I think I need” and free means my insurance company pays for it.

 

[ukcatz12]

$35k 1st grade…$40k high school is not middle class. Sorry. I’ll stick with radicalized.

Many in the US do like to find a boogeyman. Being a victim plays.

Imperfect system for sure…but rationalizing cowardly murder is wild for some to do. Even see losers like JDHoss in this thread who smile and laughed as murder. Weird.

Has insurance ever been beneficial financially for someone in poor health circumstances?

I’m guessing you don’t know many people who have sent their kids to private school. Quite a few of my cousins did and they are firmly middle class. Two parents in white collar careers brining home six figures that drive 15 year old Hondas and live in normal houses in normal suburbs in higher cost of living areas.

 

[Irish Beck]

Unlimited is “as much as I think I need” and free means my insurance company pays for it.

But what does "as much as I think I need" mean? My uncle died in July from stage 4 pancreatic cancer. He responded well in the first year to injection treatment. His doctor recommended a gene therapy approach because A.) he was struggling too much with bi-weekly injections (he completed 26, stubborn ass) and B.) while the growths had begun to shrink, the progress ultimately plateaued.

It took his insurance company 3 months, after repeated appeals and denials, to finally approve the therapy. IT WORKED extremely well. Improved his quality of life and surely extended his time on earth by nearly 8 months. Who knows how long he would have made it if they accepted the request initially and just provided the care for him?

Are you saying there are people trying to rig the insurance game from the consumer side? I just don't see how this is our fault when clearly the issue is the war going on between the providers and insurers.

Edit : I don't disagree with your overarching point though.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

I would say 40k for grade school certainly means his FAMILY is upper class, but that doesn't mean he is. Heck if he's a liberal Ivy-league student he probably has an English degree and makes peanuts lol.

 

[Bill Cosby]

I’m guessing you don’t know many people who have sent their kids to private school. Quite a few of my cousins did and they are firmly middle class. Two parents in white collar careers brining home six figures that drive 15 year old Hondas and live in normal houses in normal suburbs in higher cost of living areas.

lol

These aren’t your KY catholic “private” schools.

No one (but maybe the nannies) are driving Hondas in those pickup lines.

$40k annual tuition is not middle class.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

There were two private schools by me in the bronx that were supposedly $40k a year.. Fieldston and Horace Mann. These were like, legit gated academies. Just looked and one of them is $65k a year.. for 2nd grade. Holy shit lol.

 

[WayneDougan]

But what does "as much as I think I need" mean? My uncle died in July from stage 4 pancreatic cancer. He responded well in the first year to injection treatment. His doctor recommended a gene therapy approach because A.) he was struggling too much with bi-weekly injections (he completed 26, stubborn ass) and B.) while the growths had begun to shrink, the progress ultimately plateaued.

It took his insurance company 3 months, after repeated appeals and denials, to finally approve the therapy. IT WORKED extremely well. Improved his quality of life and surely extended his time on earth by nearly 8 months. Who knows how long he would have made it if they accepted the request initially and just provided the care for him?

Are you saying there are people trying to rig the insurance game from the consumer side? I just don't see how this is our fault when clearly the issue is the war going on between the providers and insurers.

Edit : I don't disagree with your overarching point though.

First, my prayers to your family. I am not downplaying the situation at all and I assume I'll be in this situation why my family at some point.

Your example is actually quite perfect in terms of what I'm talking about. I am going to make some assumptions here as I don't know a lot about pancreatic cancer other than the 5-year survival rate is not good, and it's an extremely painful disease.

Three things first:

• I am NOT accusing your uncle or family of gaming any system
• I would probably do EXACTLY what your family did if I or one of my family members were in that situation.
• I am using your situation as an example and don't know the details, so please don't feel I am attacking you

Here's the difficult situation:

Someone with pancreatic cancer is near end of life, and his quality of life absolutely sucks. Drug company A comes along and says, "I have an experimental therapy that may add 8 months of higher quality life to his life." The family says, "sounds good, let's do it". Drug company says, "great, it only costs $100K".

Back to my original point:
- The patient and family want that drug but expect the insurance company to pay for it (unlimited healthcare for free).
- Hospital and drug company obviously want to administer that drug as they'll make $100K
- Insurance company says, "hold on here, it's experimental and will maybe only extend your life by 8 months."

Now, where this probably could have been worked out is the contract you signed with your insurance company, but we all damn well know that nobody reads any of that stuff and besides, your company probably told you what the plan was and you had no say in the matter.

 

[Irish Beck]

First, my prayers to your family. I am not downplaying the situation at all and I assume I'll be in this situation why my family at some point.

Your example is actually quite perfect in terms of what I'm talking about. I am going to make some assumptions here as I don't know a lot about pancreatic cancer other than the 5-year survival rate is not good, and it's an extremely painful disease.

Three things first:

• I am NOT accusing your uncle or family of gaming any system
• I would probably do EXACTLY what your family did if I or one of my family members were in that situation.
• I am using your situation as an example and don't know the details, so please don't feel I am attacking you

Here's the difficult situation:

Someone with pancreatic cancer is near end of life, and his quality of life absolutely sucks. Drug company A comes along and says, "I have an experimental therapy that may add 8 months of higher quality life to his life." The family says, "sounds good, let's do it". Drug company says, "great, it only costs $100K".

Back to my original point:
- The patient and family want that drug but expect the insurance company to pay for it (unlimited healthcare for free).
- Hospital and drug company obviously want to administer that drug as they'll make $100K
- Insurance company says, "hold on here, it's experimental and will maybe only extend your life by 8 months.

Now, where this probably could have been worked out is the contract you signed with your insurance company, but we all damn well know that nobody reads any of that stuff and besides, your company probably told you what the plan was and you had no say in the matter.

I appreciate the kind words Wayne.

The honest truth of it is that my uncle loathed doctor visits and hospitals. He complained constantly about pain in his side but did quite a bit of physical labor (primarily tile and granite/marble) so he assumed it was just him getting old rather than getting to the doctor in a timely manner. Extremely talented in creating anything from a fireplace to boat all by himself. All that said, he was only 51, smoked since he was 13 and left behind an 18 year old daughter and 50 year old wife. It sucks horribly, but it also could have been avoided.

Also, apologies for making it sound like you are accusing people of gaming the system, poor words on my part. What I want to understand better is why insurance companies, drug companies and healthcare companies all seem to be doing alright in the grand scheme of this but we sit on the sideline and grind away at work to generate a profit for them when we inevitably need care. In your example, I would wonder if that same $100k drug isn't $55 through the NHS in the UK. I'd also wonder why a guy like Martin Shkreli can just buy a drug and jack up the price by 5000% for the sake of profit (although he ultimately paid a price for that decision).

I don't know, I still see this as the American people vs a hyper convoluted system intended to keep you as far away from the sausage making as possible, and I don't like that one bit.

 

[Tskware]

I did something after reading this thread that I have only done one other time, put a poster on ignore. Have to say, I feel better already.

From what little has come out, sounds like this guy wanted to be Unabomber II. Also, guy I play golf with lived in Baltimore for a good while, and his kids went to school with the alleged shooter. Damn, it is a small world.

 

[bthaunert]

lol

These aren’t your KY catholic “private” schools.

No one (but maybe the nannies) are driving Hondas in those pickup lines.

$40k annual tuition is not middle class.

Yeah, Gilman is the premier all boys private school in the richest area of Baltimore. It’s connected via bridges over the streets to two of the premier private girls schools. These are campuses, not buildings. I worked right by these schools. These are not your run of the mill private schools.

The Mangione family is very well off and a very well known name in the Baltimore area. I oversaw the Mangione Aquatic Center for 6 years. These people have lots of money

 

[UKBrassowTipIN]

Anti capitalist guy, who goes to Starbucks and McDonald's. Fits a certain mold of person.

I bet he marched for palestine too.

 

[Cold Stout Beer]

 

[CAT Scratch FVR]

First, my prayers to your family. I am not downplaying the situation at all and I assume I'll be in this situation why my family at some point.

Your example is actually quite perfect in terms of what I'm talking about. I am going to make some assumptions here as I don't know a lot about pancreatic cancer other than the 5-year survival rate is not good, and it's an extremely painful disease.

Three things first:

• I am NOT accusing your uncle or family of gaming any system
• I would probably do EXACTLY what your family did if I or one of my family members were in that situation.
• I am using your situation as an example and don't know the details, so please don't feel I am attacking you

Here's the difficult situation:

Someone with pancreatic cancer is near end of life, and his quality of life absolutely sucks. Drug company A comes along and says, "I have an experimental therapy that may add 8 months of higher quality life to his life." The family says, "sounds good, let's do it". Drug company says, "great, it only costs $100K".

Back to my original point:
- The patient and family want that drug but expect the insurance company to pay for it (unlimited healthcare for free).
- Hospital and drug company obviously want to administer that drug as they'll make $100K
- Insurance company says, "hold on here, it's experimental and will maybe only extend your life by 8 months."

Now, where this probably could have been worked out is the contract you signed with your insurance company, but we all damn well know that nobody reads any of that stuff and besides, your company probably told you what the plan was and you had no say in the matter.

This is the crux of health care, company sponsored that is. They contract with carrier. Carrier follows/allows expected treatment protocols, which is what company expects. There are items that are add-ons, subtractions, based on what company wants to cover, like abortion, trans surgery, in vitro, etc. All these items add or subtract from expected health expenses. Carrier is doing what they promised company according to the contract. Included in this is the appeals process which is the protocols the company expects the carrier to follow. Paying claims is expected but will dictate what future premiums will look like.
As to self-insured companies, same path but last line of appeal may lie with company based on accepted medical practices. They may seek outside counsel in making the last call as they don’t want to open themselves up to any discriminatory practices. Why cover this but not that?

 

[bigblueinsanity]

View embedded media

Something definitely doesn't sit right with me on this suspect.

We know the killer was masked for days at all times from the time they got on a bus in Atlanta using cash and a fake name. They knew the exact door a powerful ceo would exit, calmly shot him with a silencer and effortlessly cleared a jam. Afterwards escaping calmly and easily on bike.

Then this same extremely careful, calculated person just suddenly drops his guard and leaves a trail of evidence including Starbucks, water, and on video everywhere?

It doesn't add up.

 

[WTF Cat]

An absolutely wild thread.

Killing people you don't agree with... SMH.

 

[JumperJack]

Anti capitalist guy, who goes to Starbucks and McDonald's. Fits a certain mold of person.

I bet he marched for palestine too.

 

[Nightwish84]

"It doesn't add up."

Is this like when a shooter ran into the woods in KY during football season, prompting many on the paddock to pretend he's James Bond and would likely never be found? Of course days later a YouTube couple found his rotting corpse in those same woods just by smelling the air around them. This guy walked up to someone on a NYC morning and executed him, with cameras all over the place. He's not another James Bond in some sort of super spy network. He's just a guy. Of course he was found quickly.

 

[Blackish_Mamba]

"It doesn't add up."

Is this like when a shooter ran into the woods in KY during football season, prompting many on the paddock to pretend he's James Bond and would likely never be found? Of course days later a YouTube couple found his rotting corpse in those same woods just by smelling the air around them. This guy walked up to someone on a NYC morning and executed him, with cameras all over the place. He's not another James Bond in some sort of super spy network. He's just a guy. Of course he was found quickly.

How about that Iowa poll? Remember when you so smugly think you know everything? Hahaha

42 days. Tell us more of your infinite wisdom.

 

[Cold Stout Beer]

 

[cole854]

"It doesn't add up."

Is this like when a shooter ran into the woods in KY during football season, prompting many on the paddock to pretend he's James Bond and would likely never be found? Of course days later a YouTube couple found his rotting corpse in those same woods just by smelling the air around them. This guy walked up to someone on a NYC morning and executed him, with cameras all over the place. He's not another James Bond in some sort of super spy network. He's just a guy. Of course he was found quickly.

You probably think the Vegas shooter acted alone as well.

 

[cole854]

It goes without saying that the man shouldn't have been killed, but even the most ardent corporatist has to admit that it has revealed how poorly insurance companies are viewed by Americans. It's interesting.

That isn't a new revelation by any stretch. Insurance is a necessary evil, and we all complain every time open enrollment rolls around and premiums go up. But I don't recall ever knowing anyone who wanted to go murder an exec over it.

This is an extension in some degree of work force violence, and how some simply hate this country and dismiss their blessings like an old shoe. When will the next member of the Walton family be on the hit list for not paying their cashiers more? What about a disgruntled baseball fan who is pissed at Soto's contract? The feelings that the murderer had are not limited to insurance ceo's.

 

[KAB Cats]

That isn't a new revelation by any stretch. Insurance is a necessary evil, and we all complain every time open enrollment rolls around and premiums go up. But I don't recall ever knowing anyone who wanted to go murder an exec over it.

This is an extension in some degree of work force violence, and how some simply hate this country and dismiss their blessings like an old shoe. When will the next member of the Walton family be on the hit list for not paying their cashiers more? What about a disgruntled baseball fan who is pissed at Soto's contract? The feelings that the murderer had are not limited to insurance ceo's.

I don’t know what you’re trying to argue to be honest, but Juan Soto is nothing like an health insurance CEO. Think you’re missing something pretty big there.

 

[WTF Cat]

That isn't a new revelation by any stretch. Insurance is a necessary evil, and we all complain every time open enrollment rolls around and premiums go up. But I don't recall ever knowing anyone who wanted to go murder an exec over it.

This is an extension in some degree of work force violence, and how some simply hate this country and dismiss their blessings like an old shoe. When will the next member of the Walton family be on the hit list for not paying their cashiers more? What about a disgruntled baseball fan who is pissed at Soto's contract? The feelings that the murderer had are not limited to insurance ceo's.

Taking that further.. where does it end?

Or do we make "The Purge" a documentary?

 

[BankerCat12]

Since we're offing CEOs with predatory business ethics can we get 1 or 2 from Ticketmaster?

I emailed the FBI about you last week saying you were a potential suspect. I am still not sold they got the right guy.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

I don’t know what you’re trying to argue to be honest, but Juan Soto is nothing like an health insurance CEO. Think you’re missing something pretty big there.

I know that Juan Soto isn't doing anything to harm someone else, in the way a CEO of a health care company can be *perceived* to do so.. but I think the point stands. What stops someone mentally unfit from killing any millionaire, CEO, athlete, model, etc.. IF what society is saying today that "It's ok if you kill someone with money!"?

Plus Yankee fans are d-bags, so I wouldn't be shocked..

 

[KAB Cats]

I know that Juan Soto isn't doing anything to harm someone else, in the way a CEO of a health care company can be *perceived* to do so.. but I think the point stands. What stops someone mentally unfit from killing any millionaire, CEO, athlete, model, etc.. IF what society is saying today that "It's ok if you kill someone with money!"?

Plus Yankee fans are d-bags, so I wouldn't be shocked..

Literally no one said it’s okay to kill anyone. It’s a strawman argument. In fact, I explicitly stated the opposite.

 

[cole854]

I don’t know what you’re trying to argue to be honest, but Juan Soto is nothing like an health insurance CEO. Think you’re missing something pretty big there.

Bartman received death threats for his fubar. The "hit list" is not limited to execs....all it takes is for the stars to align that set the wheels in motion for an act of violence to be carried out.