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I wouldn't hold that against them if they're good but some bloggers I understand, take issue with bottlers and labels that are misleading. I can understand how some of these practices can be seen that way. From my experience, MGP Ingredients makes a very good rye product under several labels including their own.Interesting mini-doc. I wonder if any of my favorites are sourced.
That's pretty interesting. I'm not a bourbon fan but I've wondered how these new brands are popping up overnight with aged product.
I took a tour of Woodford Reserve in the summer of 2003, and they openly admitted that at that time, no Woodford Reserve from that site had yet been consumed. As I recall, it was sourced from a distillery in Louisville, until the bourbon made at the site had aged sufficiently.
Frankly, as long as the bourbon being "sourced out" is distilled in Kentucky, or Indiana, I have little problem with it, given those states are the most historically connected to the industry. Kentucky and Indiana began "the Battle for the Bourbon Barrell" for a reason, in football, decades, ago.
A lot of bourbon today is sourced from the George Dickel distillery in TN. There are bourbon distilleries all over the place now, though outside of KY, IN, and TN, there aren't a ton large enough with enough capacity to sell distillate to other makers in any meaningful quantities.
Woodford was never "sourced," really. "Sourcing" is where you buy whiskey from another producer, or pay another producer to make it for you (aka: "contract distilling.") Woodford is a Brown-Foreman brand, so they took (and still take) whiskey from the Brown-Forman Distillery in Louisville (where they make Old Forester and Early Times). Same company, same master distiller, 2 different locations. Today's Woodford is a blend of distillate from the pot stills at Woodford and the column still at the Brown-Forman distillery in west Louisville. (it's also inferior to most Old Forester expressions, for my taste).
A lot of bourbon today is sourced from the George Dickel distillery in TN. There are bourbon distilleries all over the place now, though outside of KY, IN, and TN, there aren't a ton large enough with enough capacity to sell distillate to other makers in any meaningful quantities.
And at times you are paying up for a total fabrication of a product labeled Hand Crafted, even though it may be good. But that's fine if you enjoy and understand this.Tip of the cap to Bill for the time he put into his excellent and accurate explanations above.
A point I will stress is there have long been federal regs on the books governing the basic truth-in-marketing/origination/production issues that the NBC article linked in the OP alludes to. They go back to the late 1800’s.
But until 10 years ago or so, these regs were completely esoteric and no one gave a shit about them because American straight whiskeys were still a relatively niche product and the idea of new “craft” producers manipulating the laws really had not been contemplated.
Now, it is a problem. But the TTB is a very minor cog in the federal bureaucracy and in the current climate there obviously is no funding/desire to build it up just so it can enforce some 1890’s-era labeling laws pertaining to a luxury consumer product.
The best takeaway for the average consumer is to buy stuff from the established distillers. Brown-foreman, Barton, Turkey, heaven hill, Buffalo trace (if you can even find anything), etc. Paying the money to a no-name producer is setting yourself up for some disappointment.
Tip of the cap to Bill for the time he put into his excellent and accurate explanations above.
A point I will stress is there have long been federal regs on the books governing the basic truth-in-marketing/origination/production issues that the NBC article linked in the OP alludes to. They go back to the late 1800’s.
But until 10 years ago or so, these regs were completely esoteric and no one gave a shit about them because American straight whiskeys were still a relatively niche product and the idea of new “craft” producers manipulating the laws really had not been contemplated.
Now, it is a problem. But the TTB is a very minor cog in the federal bureaucracy and in the current climate there obviously is no funding/desire to build it up just so it can enforce some 1890’s-era labeling laws pertaining to a luxury consumer product.
The best takeaway for the average consumer is to buy stuff from the established distillers. Brown-foreman, Barton, Turkey, heaven hill, Buffalo trace (if you can even find anything), etc. Paying the money to a no-name producer is setting yourself up for some disappointment.
^ The Heaven Hill BIB is delicious. I usually have a bottle on hand.
I guess it’s about the last of the old-line age stated bottles. Those are what I miss the most these days - 6 year old Barton, 8YO Old Charter, 7YO Weller. I don’t really give a shit about not being able to find the Van Winkles of the world. I just wish I could still walk into the store and pick up a handle of Weller 7 for $25.
Bill I agree about Woodford being inferior to Old Forester. I do not care for Woodford at all. It's amazing what a bit of marketing does for an item. So many people that I know that love Woodford have only had about two other bourbons so they have no basis for comparison.Woodford was never "sourced," really. "Sourcing" is where you buy whiskey from another producer, or pay another producer to make it for you (aka: "contract distilling.") Woodford is a Brown-Foreman brand, so they took (and still take) whiskey from the Brown-Forman Distillery in Louisville (where they make Old Forester and Early Times). Same company, same master distiller, 2 different locations. Today's Woodford is a blend of distillate from the pot stills at Woodford and the column still at the Brown-Forman distillery in west Louisville. (it's also inferior to most Old Forester expressions, for my taste).
A lot of bourbon today is sourced from the George Dickel distillery in TN. There are bourbon distilleries all over the place now, though outside of KY, IN, and TN, there aren't a ton large enough with enough capacity to sell distillate to other makers in any meaningful quantities.
Woodford Reserve was actually Old Forrester for about the first 6-8 years.I took a tour of Woodford Reserve in the summer of 2003, and they openly admitted that at that time, no Woodford Reserve from that site had yet been consumed. As I recall, it was sourced from a distillery in Louisville, until the bourbon made at the site had aged sufficiently.
Frankly, as long as the bourbon being "sourced out" is distilled in Kentucky, or Indiana, I have little problem with it, given those states are the most historically connected to the industry. Kentucky and Indiana began "the Battle for the Bourbon Barrell" for a reason, in football, decades, ago.
Woodford Reserve was actually Old Forrester for about the first 6-8 years.
Weller 12 year old is very popular becuase it's the same batch mix and distiller as Old Rip 12 year (ORV gets first selection on barrels). Even before Buffalo Trace was making the Van Winkle products, they outsourced it to Stitzel-Weller.