NBC: The lies, half-truths and guarded secrets fueling bourbon's boom
- Thread starter EastKYWildcat
- Start date
That's pretty interesting. I'm not a bourbon fan but I've wondered how these new brands are popping up overnight with aged product.
If it ain't made in Brooklyn then it ain't bourbon.
I wouldn't hold that against them if they're good but some bloggers I understand, take issue with bottlers and labels that are misleading. I can understand how some of these practices can be seen that way. From my experience, MGP Ingredients makes a very good rye product under several labels including their own.
Anyone who knows enough to care already knew that. Same thing with the rye.
So it's interesting they even produced such a piece. It's also interesting to note the piece last month about how new York was right on the heels of ky in terms of bourbon, which was obviously a massive lie when one looked at the numbers.
Sounds like a coordinated pr campaign to me.
There's nothing new in that piece. Many bourbons are sourced, and have been since before prohibition. That's the way whiskey works- even scotch. A distillery is very expensive, and if you're spending a ton of money to make whiskey, it's 4+ years before you can sell anything but gin or vodka top start recouping some of that cost. Whiskey Row in Louisville was known as the home not only whiskey company offices, but of rectifiers (people who bought whiskey, blended it, and sold it as their own) prior to prohibition.
But any distillery that has excess capacity would be a fool to NOT sell that capacity to other labels. Or, better yet, make extra product and sell it to those who want to bottle their own labels. And if you're buildign a distillery, that 4+ year period when you don't have any of your own stuff to sell yet, the best way to start generating some revenues is to buy someone else's whiskey and put your name on it until your own is ready.
MGP in Indiana makes some of the best whiskey in America- bourbon and rye. It's been selling its distillate to others for decades, and only in the past couple years has started its own labels (George Remus, Rossville Union). Most rye whiskey you find comes from MGP.
Smooth Ambler Old Scout
Bulleitt Rye
a good portion of Barrell Rye batches
Pinhook
Ezra Brooks Rye
James E. Pepper 1776
High West
There are problably 50+
Aside from that, half the bourbon labels you drink aren't made by the distillery on the bottle.
There is no "Old Rip Van Winkle" Distillery. It's made by Buffalo Trace
Barrell Bourbon is openly sourced from a number of sources. They can't mention the distillery, but they mention the state(s) of distillation of each batch.
Bulleitt bourbon is all made by Four Roses (they recently built a distillery, but it only began operations last year, so none of that is in bottles yet)
Luxco (Rebel Yell, Ezra Brooks, David Nicholson, Blood Oath) has all made by Heaven Hill since the 1950s (they also just built a distillery)
Willett's distillery is now only 6 years old, the stuff they got famous on was mostly Heaven Hill, and some of their brands are still sourced (for now).
boone County, OKI, Old Scout, and Belle Meade bourbons are sourced from MGP (all in the processes of building and making their own stuff now)
Diageo's Orphan Barrel stuff is mostly from the old Heaven Hill plant (before Heaven Hill bought it) and others.
Angel's Envy is sourced, likely from Brown-Foreman (they, too, now have a distillery, but it's not old enough yet to have bottled anything of their own)
Michters is in the same boat....sourced, though they have a two year old distillery now.
The question isn't really whether or not it's sourced, but how up front the producers are about it. Smooth Ambler, Barrell Bourbon, High West, and others have always been very forthcoming about sourcing their product. Nothing wrong with that. Generally, they aren't allowed to mention the original distillers by name (they have non-disclosure agreements because the original distiller doesn't want to compete with other people selling their same distillate), but it's usually easy to find out one way or another, and most list the state of distillation.
But any distillery that has excess capacity would be a fool to NOT sell that capacity to other labels. Or, better yet, make extra product and sell it to those who want to bottle their own labels. And if you're buildign a distillery, that 4+ year period when you don't have any of your own stuff to sell yet, the best way to start generating some revenues is to buy someone else's whiskey and put your name on it until your own is ready.
MGP in Indiana makes some of the best whiskey in America- bourbon and rye. It's been selling its distillate to others for decades, and only in the past couple years has started its own labels (George Remus, Rossville Union). Most rye whiskey you find comes from MGP.
Smooth Ambler Old Scout
Bulleitt Rye
a good portion of Barrell Rye batches
Pinhook
Ezra Brooks Rye
James E. Pepper 1776
High West
There are problably 50+
Aside from that, half the bourbon labels you drink aren't made by the distillery on the bottle.
There is no "Old Rip Van Winkle" Distillery. It's made by Buffalo Trace
Barrell Bourbon is openly sourced from a number of sources. They can't mention the distillery, but they mention the state(s) of distillation of each batch.
Bulleitt bourbon is all made by Four Roses (they recently built a distillery, but it only began operations last year, so none of that is in bottles yet)
Luxco (Rebel Yell, Ezra Brooks, David Nicholson, Blood Oath) has all made by Heaven Hill since the 1950s (they also just built a distillery)
Willett's distillery is now only 6 years old, the stuff they got famous on was mostly Heaven Hill, and some of their brands are still sourced (for now).
boone County, OKI, Old Scout, and Belle Meade bourbons are sourced from MGP (all in the processes of building and making their own stuff now)
Diageo's Orphan Barrel stuff is mostly from the old Heaven Hill plant (before Heaven Hill bought it) and others.
Angel's Envy is sourced, likely from Brown-Foreman (they, too, now have a distillery, but it's not old enough yet to have bottled anything of their own)
Michters is in the same boat....sourced, though they have a two year old distillery now.
The question isn't really whether or not it's sourced, but how up front the producers are about it. Smooth Ambler, Barrell Bourbon, High West, and others have always been very forthcoming about sourcing their product. Nothing wrong with that. Generally, they aren't allowed to mention the original distillers by name (they have non-disclosure agreements because the original distiller doesn't want to compete with other people selling their same distillate), but it's usually easy to find out one way or another, and most list the state of distillation.
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I took a tour of Woodford Reserve in the summer of 2003, and they openly admitted that at that time, no Woodford Reserve from that site had yet been consumed. As I recall, it was sourced from a distillery in Louisville, until the bourbon made at the site had aged sufficiently.
Frankly, as long as the bourbon being "sourced out" is distilled in Kentucky, or Indiana, I have little problem with it, given those states are the most historically connected to the industry. Kentucky and Indiana began "the Battle for the Bourbon Barrell" for a reason, in football, decades, ago.
Frankly, as long as the bourbon being "sourced out" is distilled in Kentucky, or Indiana, I have little problem with it, given those states are the most historically connected to the industry. Kentucky and Indiana began "the Battle for the Bourbon Barrell" for a reason, in football, decades, ago.
I live in Shelby County and watched the Bulleitt distillery go from ground up. It is a great addition to the county, $115M capital project.
Jeptha Creed also opened a year ago and are leveraging gin and vodka until they can seal their first bottle.
Interesting side note, Jeptha Creed rushed to production so they could produce the first barrel in Shelby County in over a hundred years, did not want Bulleitt to have that honor
Jeptha Creed also opened a year ago and are leveraging gin and vodka until they can seal their first bottle.
Interesting side note, Jeptha Creed rushed to production so they could produce the first barrel in Shelby County in over a hundred years, did not want Bulleitt to have that honor
Woodford was never "sourced," really. "Sourcing" is where you buy whiskey from another producer, or pay another producer to make it for you (aka: "contract distilling.") Woodford is a Brown-Foreman brand, so they took (and still take) whiskey from the Brown-Forman Distillery in Louisville (where they make Old Forester and Early Times). Same company, same master distiller, 2 different locations. Today's Woodford is a blend of distillate from the pot stills at Woodford and the column still at the Brown-Forman distillery in west Louisville. (it's also inferior to most Old Forester expressions, for my taste).
A lot of bourbon today is sourced from the George Dickel distillery in TN. There are bourbon distilleries all over the place now, though outside of KY, IN, and TN, there aren't a ton large enough with enough capacity to sell distillate to other makers in any meaningful quantities.
Thanks for the knowledgeable info.
Did the Dickel tour in 2016. A lot more pure fun than the Jack Daniels tour (2013). I can see why Dickel sources other bourbons, it’s really good!
Tip of the cap to Bill for the time he put into his excellent and accurate explanations above.
A point I will stress is there have long been federal regs on the books governing the basic truth-in-marketing/origination/production issues that the NBC article linked in the OP alludes to. They go back to the late 1800’s.
But until 10 years ago or so, these regs were completely esoteric and no one gave a shit about them because American straight whiskeys were still a relatively niche product and the idea of new “craft” producers manipulating the laws really had not been contemplated.
Now, it is a problem. But the TTB is a very minor cog in the federal bureaucracy and in the current climate there obviously is no funding/desire to build it up just so it can enforce some 1890’s-era labeling laws pertaining to a luxury consumer product.
The best takeaway for the average consumer is to buy stuff from the established distillers. Brown-foreman, Barton, Turkey, heaven hill, Buffalo trace (if you can even find anything), etc. Paying the money to a no-name producer is setting yourself up for some disappointment.
A point I will stress is there have long been federal regs on the books governing the basic truth-in-marketing/origination/production issues that the NBC article linked in the OP alludes to. They go back to the late 1800’s.
But until 10 years ago or so, these regs were completely esoteric and no one gave a shit about them because American straight whiskeys were still a relatively niche product and the idea of new “craft” producers manipulating the laws really had not been contemplated.
Now, it is a problem. But the TTB is a very minor cog in the federal bureaucracy and in the current climate there obviously is no funding/desire to build it up just so it can enforce some 1890’s-era labeling laws pertaining to a luxury consumer product.
The best takeaway for the average consumer is to buy stuff from the established distillers. Brown-foreman, Barton, Turkey, heaven hill, Buffalo trace (if you can even find anything), etc. Paying the money to a no-name producer is setting yourself up for some disappointment.
And at times you are paying up for a total fabrication of a product labeled Hand Crafted, even though it may be good. But that's fine if you enjoy and understand this.
Today at my liquor store I bought my 2nd Heaven Hill Bottled in Bond bourbon and it was $12.
^ The Heaven Hill BIB is delicious. I usually have a bottle on hand.
I guess it’s about the last of the old-line age stated bottles. Those are what I miss the most these days - 6 year old Barton, 8YO Old Charter, 7YO Weller. I don’t really give a shit about not being able to find the Van Winkles of the world. I just wish I could still walk into the store and pick up a handle of Weller 7 for $25.
I guess it’s about the last of the old-line age stated bottles. Those are what I miss the most these days - 6 year old Barton, 8YO Old Charter, 7YO Weller. I don’t really give a shit about not being able to find the Van Winkles of the world. I just wish I could still walk into the store and pick up a handle of Weller 7 for $25.
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There are plenty of fantastic companies who source their whiskey. Barrell Bourbon is one. Old Scout is another. High West for a third. Yellowstone is just now adding small portions of their own distillate to what they've sourced.
It's been the common practice in whiskey since before prohibition. If you're worried about the whiskey, look for age statements. Look for the words "Straight Bourbon" on the bottle. While most producers who sell distillate require Non-Disclosure agreements so the purchaser cannot reveal the name of the distillery, the good NDPs (Non-distilling-producer, aka "the people selling sourced whiskey") will list the state of distillation on the bottle, which give you a clue. (If it's IN, that means MGP. If it's TN, it's likely Dickel at the moment, etc). And they'll also make clear that they did not distill it, and mention they "sourced" or "procured" barrels. There's more of an art to aging and blending than distilling anyway.
Distilling is a chemical process that is mostly computer controlled now, and the modern "master distillers" are chemists (as in "have actual degrees in chemistry,") They're not folksy country people making the same stuff in the same way their grand daddies did. Picking the barrels and blending them, choosing finishes, etc is where the "art" of whiskey making comes from.
t's not much different in wine. Most of the wine labels you see don't actually own a vineyard, and some pay others to make the wine to their specification. it's not rare or unethical if the end producer doesn't mislead the buyer.
Bill I agree about Woodford being inferior to Old Forester. I do not care for Woodford at all. It's amazing what a bit of marketing does for an item. So many people that I know that love Woodford have only had about two other bourbons so they have no basis for comparison.
Woodford Reserve was actually Old Forrester for about the first 6-8 years.
Weller 12 year old is very popular becuase it's the same batch mix and distiller as Old Rip 12 year (ORV gets first selection on barrels). Even before Buffalo Trace was making the Van Winkle products, they outsourced it to Stitzel-Weller.
Technically, Van Winkle was getting their whiskey from all sorts of places. They were getting it from Lawrenceburg between the Stitzel-Weller and Buffalo Trace days. Julian basically bought whatever he could get in addition to that, some of which wasn't even wheated. You have to go way back to make sure that ALL the whiskey in a bottle is Stitzel-Weller.
