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**NBA Finals Game 3 Thread**

HenryMuto said:
Jordan was favored in all 6 finals series and went 6-0. Would you think more of LeBron if he didn't make the finals in 2007, 2014, 2015 and 2017 when he was not the favorite to win ? Would you think more of Lebron if he was 3-1 in the finals than 3-5 ? LeBron took one of the worst teams of all time to ever make the finals in 2007 upsetting Detroit. How many times did Jordan's Bulls upset a favorite on his way to making his 6 finals ?
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So you're arguing that the Bulls were the best team and never upset anyone to get to the finals? Well, they were the best team all year long, why is that a bad thing?
Also, weren't Lebron and the Heat heavy favorites to win in his first year in Miami? I think the Mavericks shut that down. Don't think MJ ever lost in that scenario.
 
kyjeff1 said:
Were those losses in Chicago?
0kay, yeah, they lost some games, but how many finals series did they lose?
Again, they may not have played a team like the 17 Warriors, but how many teams have the Warriors played that were anywhere near as good as the 96 Bulls?
We can go in circles all day.
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The discussion isn't 17 warriors vs 96 bulls. It's LBJ vs MJ. What you are arguing isn't relevant to the discussion.
 
Personally I don't care if Jordan would've won the game or not. They'd still be losing in 5 or 6. If an extra game or two makes that much of a difference to you...
 
JBHolmesfan said:
The Bulls lost in the first round 3 times with MJ. The Bulls never had to play a team anywhere near as good as the Warriors so it's not fair to say MJ wouldn't have let his team lose that game. If Korver, one of the best shooters in the league makes the open corner 3, they go up 5 and likely win the game. He misses and Durant hits a pull-up 3 to take the lead. If Steve Kerr missed one of his big shots would we blame MJ for "letting his team lose?"

LeBron was phenomenal last night. He could score 75 points in game 4 and if they still lose people will say "Jordan would've won that game."
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JBHolmesfan said:
They got swept twice and lost in 4 games in another season (1st round used to be best of 5). Personally, I think the Warriors would beat the Bulls. The Warriors had a record better than the Bulls all time record and then they add another top 3 player and future Hall of Famer on the team. I think this Warriors team is one of the best of all time, but that really isn't the argument. It's about MJ-LeBron.

People knock on LeBron's finals record and say it's proof he's never Jordan, so let's look at it. His first finals he goes 0-4 against the Spurs. Terrible, right? Well, he took a team that would go 7 games against posters on this board to the finals, Jordan was losing in the first round until Pippen came along.

LeBron and the Heat lose to the Mavs in the finals in LeBron's 2nd trip to the finals. I'll agree that losing that finals was a bad one. The Heat were the better team, but didn't show up when it mattered, including LeBron.

LeBron wins a title with the Heat against the Thunder that had Durant, Westbrook and Harden. While they were younger in their careers, that's an impressive cast to beat.

LeBron beats the Spurs with 3, maybe 4 Hall of Famers (Duncan, Parker, Ginobli, Leonard) and then loses to them the next year.

LeBron loses to the Warriors in the finals the next year after Love goes down in the first round and Irving got hurt in game 1 or 2. Matthew Dellavadova was a key contributor for the Cave in that series. LeBron and the Cave then come back from 3-1 to beat the team with the best record in the history of the NBA.

It looks like LeBron will lose to the Warriors again in the finals making it his 5th loss in the finals. Other than the Mavs series do you think LeBron should've won, or what series if you trade LeBron and MJ (not Bulls and Cavs) would MJ win? I think the only one you could argue would be the 2nd Spurs series.

3 of the losses in the finals MJ would have no bearing on the outcome. MJ isn't going to lead Delly and Timofey Mozgov to a title and he's not winning one with Larry Hughes and Boobie Gibson. I also don't think he'd help the Cavs win this series. So, the 3-5 finals record looks bad, especially when compared to MJ's 6-0, but 1 loss is with a team that MJ was losing in the first round with, and another loss was with a depleted roster by the time the finals rolled around. It's not as simple as 6-0 vs. 3-5.
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Why are so many of you talking about MJ getting swept in his 1st, 2nd, and 3rd year in the league.

Which btw, he put up
29.3 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 8.5 apg, 2.8 spg, and 1 bpg.
43.7 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 5.7 apg, 2.3 spg, and 1.3 bpg
35.7 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 6.0 apg, 2.0 spg, and 2.3 bpg.

and first season scottie came, that's Jordan's 4th year which they played 10 games. Yeah, so he had a Scottie not even in his prime and getting very far in the Playoff.... They won their first title in Scottie's 4th, 5th, and 6th year.

Silly argument or point, you are making.
 
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Hoskins91 said:
The discussion isn't 17 warriors vs 96 bulls. It's LBJ vs MJ. What you are arguing isn't relevant to the discussion.
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Um, it's relative to the discussion I was having with the person I was talking to.
 
WildMoon said:
Why are so many of you talking about MJ getting swept in his 1st, 2nd, and 3rd year in the league.

Which btw, he put up
29.3 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 8.5 apg, 2.8 spg, and 1 bpg.
43.7 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 5.7 apg, 2.3 spg, and 1.3 bpg
35.7 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 6.0 apg, 2.0 spg, and 2.3 bpg.

and first season scottie came, that's Jordan's 4th year which they played 10 games. Yeah, so he had a Scottie not even in his prime and getting very far in the Playoff.... They won their first title in Scottie's 4th, 5th, and 6th year.

Silly argument or point, you are making.
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Be careful talking about the Bulls in here, the board police'll getcha. Apparently we can only talk about MJ v LBJ.
 
JBHolmesfan said:
The Warriors at the very least have 3 of the top 5 players in the series, maybe 4. Steph is without question better than Irving, in my opinion. I think Klay is better than Irving too. I agree with what you say about Green. He's in a perfect spot in Golden State. He can guard the 1-5, he's an elite defender and passer. Some would argue he's better than Irving. He's certainly way better than Love.
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As bad as it pains me to say it Kyrie Irving is better than Klay. He was the star of the Finals last year. He's a better finisher than Thompson or Curry. He's closer to Curry than people think. LeBron defers to him in crunch time always. Love is better than he's played with the Cavs. He was the best 1-2 Power Forwards in the league when he joined them. Their style and having two guys dominate the ball makes it tough for his game.
 
Bobcat94 said:
I think what people fail to realize besides the incredible amount of talent GS has is that they spread the floor so much and run so much motion with their shooters that it allows Durant to kill you with his offensive game. Cleveland has great talent to but they really don't matchup well with the offense the Warriors run. When you put the type of shooters and scorers together that they have it would be hard for anyone to play with them in a 7 game series.
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The Warriors play a brand of team basketball the NBA hasn't seen in a long time. Cleveland is still stuck in ISO and drive and kick basketball. Lue isn't anywhere near the coach that Kerr or Brown is. The Cavs underutilize their players and have no clue of in game situations of when to foul or who to foul. Their style of play is gone. Basketball is almost positionless now.
 
WildMoon said:
Why are so many of you talking about MJ getting swept in his 1st, 2nd, and 3rd year in the league.
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Because people were saying there's no way MJ would've let his team lose a game like that in the postseason when in reality, his team didn't always win in the postseason. The Bulls struggled until they became a great team with other pieces around. Jordan improved, no question, but so did his teammates around him. The 96 Bulls didn't win 72 games because MJ just decided he was going to do it.
 
Blue_2_the_bone said:
As bad as it pains me to say it Kyrie Irving is better than Klay. He was the star of the Finals last year. He's a better finisher than Thompson or Curry. He's closer to Curry than people think. LeBron defers to him in crunch time always. Love is better than he's played with the Cavs. He was the best 1-2 Power Forwards in the league when he joined them. Their style and having two guys dominate the ball makes it tough for his game.
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In my opinion, Klay is the better player. Kyrie is an elite scorer and one of the best one-on-one players. He's a terrible defender though. Klay on the other hand is one of the best shooters in the league. Didn't he make the 2nd most of all time last year behind Curry? I could be remembering that wrong. Regardless he can go for 40 on any night and guard the other team's best player. Kyrie can't do that. If I'm building a 2k I'll pick Kyrie, but if I'm a gm I'm going with a great shooter and elite defender over an elite scorer and bad defender every tkme.
 
JBHolmesfan said:
Because people were saying there's no way MJ would've let his team lose a game like that in the postseason when in reality, his team didn't always win in the postseason. The Bulls struggled until they became a great team with other pieces around. Jordan improved, no question, but so did his teammates around him. The 96 Bulls didn't win 72 games because MJ just decided he was going to do it.
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Yes, and I am pretty sure they weren't really referencing his rookie season when talking about Jordan...as that is hardly what people remembers about Jordan. Hell, when they talk about Lebron, they don't think about Lebron's younger days.

What people are arguing about is matured Jordan and LeBron.
 
WildMoon said:
Yes, and I am pretty sure they weren't really referencing his rookie season when talking about Jordan...as that is hardly what people remembers about Jordan. Hell, when they talk about Lebron, they don't think about Lebron's younger days.

What people are arguing about is matured Jordan and LeBron.
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Then it's not about Jordan as a player if you take away parts of his career. Same with LeBron. At that point you're talking about the 91-98 Bulls, not just MJ. You can't say MJ never lost games in the postseason like game 3 and then say you're only looking at a certain stretch when it's brought up that Jordan didn't win every time either.
 
Jordan is 6 of 6 in the finals. Lebron is gona be 3 of 8 soon and probably 3 of 10 if he stays in Cleveland two more years. Lebron is still a top 3 all time player when he retires but no one who matters will put him over Jordan just because he formed a few superteams and dominated a dog crap east for years with them.
 
I figured GS would do this. There's a lot of pressure on them to get to 16-0. Warriors by 15-20 at least in game 5. They are still one of the best teams ever, but 16-0 would have been cool for the sport. This NBA finals and post-season has been awful all the way and now it's not even going to give us any history, although 16-1 will still be the best win percentage in NBA history due to playing one more game over the Lakers in 2001.
 
UKWildcats#8 said:
I figured GS would do this. There's a lot of pressure on them to get to 16-0. Warriors by 15-20 at least in game 5. They are still one of the best teams ever, but 16-0 would have been cool for the sport. This NBA finals and post-season has been awful all the way and now it's not even going to give us any history, although 16-1 will still be the best win percentage in NBA history due to playing one more game over the Lakers in 2001.
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I think they'll end up winning this game.
 
Cavs go from up 19 to 11 in a blink of the eye as Love can't make a layup and leads to another bad Cavs foul on Durant. Cavs with 8 missed FT's as well. Score 49 pts in the 1st and might not even win this thing.
 
Nice half by the Cavs; Warriors mailing this one in. They know and the Cavs know that Cleveland cannot beat them four games consecutively.
 
Is this an all-star game? Where is the defense?

Maybe if the NBA actually enforced their rules it would be watchable.
 
JBHolmesfan said:
Then it's not about Jordan as a player if you take away parts of his career. Same with LeBron. At that point you're talking about the 91-98 Bulls, not just MJ. You can't say MJ never lost games in the postseason like game 3 and then say you're only looking at a certain stretch when it's brought up that Jordan didn't win every time either.
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[roll][roll]

Yep, your argument continues to be silly. If your argument is "2nd year (against champs) and 3rd year (against runner up) Jordan got swept"... then it's just a reach.

Against the great celtics team. ROFLMAO. That's like hey Lebron against Golden State Warrior, try to not get swept when you don't have Irving or Love. [roll]

Love how you take out key elements to argue "Jordan got Swept."

BTW, i dont' really care who is better. I just don't see anything that suggest Lebron is better or close at this point.
 
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Durant 22, Curry 6, Klay 6.

GS would have had a really tough time beating the Cavs if both teams had the same rosters as they did last year.

Everything had to fall right for GS to get Durant. Durant had to be a FA last year. The salary cap had to go up in a huge way. The smooth cap proposal had to be shot down.

As a Cavs fan pretty frustrating that they were able to sign one of the top 3 players in the NBA coming off a 73 win season. This is supposed to be our time and it just feels like GS used a cheat code to get Durant when they should not have been able to.

Now the Cavs only way to compete is to somehow get a star player to come for minimal amount which isn't going to happen or make some strange trade to acquire a star player while not giving up anyone from their core which is not likely.

Only way Cavs would have a chance to win a series vs GS is if they got Paul George and gave up none of their starters. Not going to happen.
 
Players are making this game fun.

Refs are making this game horrible.

Come on Ref, get the shit together.
 
WildMoon said:
[roll][roll]

Yep, your argument continues to be silly. If your argument is "2nd year (against champs) and 3rd year (against runner up) Jordan got swept"... then it's just a reach.

Against the great celtics team. ROFLMAO. That's like hey Lebron against Golden State Warrior, try to not get swept when you don't have Irving or Love. [roll]

Love how you take out key elements to argue "Jordan got Swept."

BTW, i dont' really care who is better. I just don't see anything that suggest Lebron is better or close at this point.
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You said MJ was just too great and he'd will his team to victory in games like that. Well, that wasn't always the case. That's not even to mention LeBron was +7 when he was in and the Cavs were -12 in TWO minutes without him, but yes that loss was due to LeBron's poor killer instinct. LeBron nearly averaged a triple double the first time against the Warriors and he's going to do it this time. People are going to criticize him for not winning this series because well Jordan never lost to the Jazz or Trail Blazers.
 
Zaza was given a tech but so wasn't Shump so no FT's either way. I guess it's ok to throw a punch at someone's junk if your not named Green.

It's a shame the Cavs choked game 3 away would have had a shot at a 2nd straight epic series if this was 2-2. Cavs may have very well still lost 4-2 but would have had hope and GS might have had thoughts of last year come into their mind.
 
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Series should be 2-2 now but whatevs. Don't think the cavs will be able to pull it out, but it's absurd what the warriors roster has on it
 
JBHolmesfan said:
You said MJ was just too great and he'd will his team to victory in games like that. Well, that wasn't always the case. That's not even to mention LeBron was +7 when he was in and the Cavs were -12 in TWO minutes without him, but yes that loss was due to LeBron's poor killer instinct. LeBron nearly averaged a triple double the first time against the Warriors and he's going to do it this time. People are going to criticize him for not winning this series because well Jordan never lost to the Jazz or Trail Blazers.
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I made no such a claim, but you can keep believing that. I never said anything about "Jordan is just too great and he'd will his team to victory in games like that".

No one is arguing Lebron is great or not great. There is a fundamental difference in arguing is he GOAT or is he top 10 player of all time.

What people are saying is, if Cavs were up 6 with couple minutes to go, would Jordan have allowed Bulls to go 0fer the rest of the way?

You brought up the whole Jordan got swept argument. Which was silly considering when in his career it happened and against who it happened to. Not to mention, Lebron right NOW is not a rookie or 2nd/3rd year. So the whole "he got swept" is not even within the discussion point.

anyways, this series would have been great had Cavs not choked away game 3. it should have been 2 and 2. GSW team has been a little overrated in media anyways. Nice to bring it back down to earth.
 
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