NBA Finals Game 2

[LineSkiCat]

Personally, I think Lebron is a pretty stand-up guy. For his accolades and skill, he's pretty damn humble to me. He made 1 mistake, Making an announcement and show to leave Cleveland. Pretty sure he regrets that every day. What he should have done is just left quietly, and yes Gilbert/Cleveland deserved to lose him. They put nothing around him and Lebron got tired of it. I don't blame him for bailing and taking the opportunity to play with some great available talent.

Jordan was given teammates and Lebron wasn't. Is it that bad that James did something about it? Are we so sure that Jordan, with his ego, wouldn't have done the same thing if he was stuck with Varejao and Mo Williams?

 

[JohnKBA]

Don't let facts get in the way of a good fabrication lol.

Whatever guy, do you even watch basketball?

 

[Big_Blue79]

Personally, I think Lebron is a pretty stand-up guy. For his accolades and skill, he's pretty damn humble to me. He made 1 mistake, Making an announcement and show to leave Cleveland. Pretty sure he regrets that every day. What he should have done is just left quietly, and yes Gilbert/Cleveland deserved to lose him. They put nothing around him and Lebron got tired of it. I don't blame him for bailing and taking the opportunity to play with some great available talent.

Jordan was given teammates and Lebron wasn't. Is it that bad that James did something about it? Are we so sure that Jordan, with his ego, wouldn't have done the same thing if he was stuck with Varejao and Mo Williams?

Agreed. The Decision wasn't even all that bad. Yes, it stoked his ego. Okay. But who was hurt? Butt-hurt fans (and non-fans). It literally did not hurt anyone in any real way, and the episode raised money for a Boys and Girls Club. It was dumb, harmless, and raised money for kids. Who GsAF? It's AM radio/First Take/Hot Take Canon idiocy.

 

[LineSkiCat]

Yup. Honestly, I think he thought people would actually want to see his decision, that it was good TV and people would like it, not realizing 29 other teams were about to be super pissed (Half his haters are just mad he didn't go to *their* team). I think he was too young to be making a business decision like that and got bad advice.

 

[Big_Blue79]

I like Golden State and would like to see a team built mostly from the draft win the title and they're not the typical 'load up Stars' squad and I would like to see Lebron lose and Cleveland stay title-less for eternity.

Don't forget the tanking to keep their #7 overall pick, which turned into Harrison Barnes. It was pretty egregious. Also dumping contracts (and two #1 picks) on Utah for the space to sign Igoudala. Yeah, they've built mostly through the draft, which is commendable, but they're not saints. And Cleveland is not Miami or Boston.

 

[UK90]

When MJ left a 57 win Bulls team to go play baseball, the same guys won 55 without him the next year. Lebron left a 61 win team to go to Miami, the same guys won 19 the next year..

Look, I'm a Lebron fan too, but this is NOT a legitimate comparison, and I think it's a dishonest argument that Lebron fans often try to make, because they neglect to mention that they are two ENTIRELY DIFFERENT situations:

Not only did the Bulls have all their best players (besides MJ) back in 94, but they also added significant improvements like Toni Kukoc and Steve Kerr. Plus Pippen, Grant and Armstrong were all hitting their apexes and had arguably the best seasons of their entire careers at the same time that season. Indeed, that's the crazy thing about when Jordan took that temporary baseball retirement, he did it right when the Bulls appeared primed to take things to an even higher level. Not only was that the same group that had just won three straight titles with MJ, it was an even BETTER and improved one. That 94 team likely would've been the best of all the Bulls teams if Jordan had played.

Conversely, Cleveland did not just lose Lebron after the 2010 season, they gutted their roster, also losing Delonte West, Shaq, Ilguaskas, Mo Williams, etc. Plus Varejao missed nearly all the next season with injury. That was not even remotely close to the same group of players suiting up for Cleveland the next year, it was an extremely different and MUCH MUCH worse one

If you want to make a fair and honest Bulls comparison to the Cavs the year after Lebron, then the proper comparison is the 99 Bulls team that took the floor after MJ's SECOND retirement, and that 99 Bulls team sucked balls and went a woeful 13-37.

 

[JohnKBA]

UK90 thanks for the clarification. I'm a fan of most of the guys I grew up watching. Loved Magic, MJ, Isaiah, etc, and in my adult years have enjoyed watching guys like Shaq, Nowitzki, Nash, Lebron, and Kobe. I just don't get the hate for Lebron. Winners are cold blooded and have egos. Its in their blood. Lebron is no different.

 

[CatDaddy4daWin]

Lebron fans will make up just about any stat to try to make Lebron look better than Jordan. If Lebron wills this team to win the title, then he will get major props from me. I just don't think it will happen. Golden State is too good to stay cold the rest of the series.

 

[MWes11]

Lebron fans will make up just about any stat to try to make Lebron look better than Jordan. If Lebron wills this team to win the title, then he will get major props from me. I just don't think it will happen. Golden State is too good to stay cold the rest of the series.

LeBron, granted he stays healthy for the remainder of his career, will pass MJ in every meaningful statistical category. (points, rebounds, assists). I highly doubt he will surpass MJ in championships though. I am not one who believes that championships is the main deciding factor in whether or not someone is better than another player. I do think it is important, just the most important. I will wait to hold my judgment on LeBron's place in NBA history until his career is over. Until then, it is all preference.

 

[Blueworld_3.0]

Hard to take anyone seriously who argues LJ is a "me first" player when he just put up a line that included 11 assists.
Don't forget, as long as LJ is happy with Blatt in Cleveland, the higher the likelihood Cal stays in Lex.
Also, I kinda get a Jorts vibe from watching Timofey Mozgov. So, Go Cavs!

 

[LineSkiCat]

Rings are a team statistic. Personally, they don't mean much in terms of examining an individual. Really hate when people use the ring argument when comparing two guys. Jordan having 6 rings will never mean he automatically trumps Lebron, and on the flip-side, if Lebron somehow gets 10 rings, I won't automatically put him above Jordan. There are endless factors that go into a team winning a title, a lot of it isn't even in their control.

 

[weatherbird]

Lebron fans will make up just about any stat to try to make Lebron look better than Jordan. If Lebron wills this team to win the title, then he will get major props from me. I just don't think it will happen. Golden State is too good to stay cold the rest of the series.

Just as the Jordan crowd will throw anything they can out there to discredit what LeBron is doing. The biggest of all is the constant "Jordan did it with less" or "Jordan did it by himself". I watched both, and I'm not sure how anyone determines which was better. They played in different eras, against different competition, and led their teams in different ways. They are not the same player, nor do they even play the same style. For my money, I would go with Jordan if I needed someone to score the ball, Lebron if I needed just about anything else. While that statement might sound very pro LeBron, being able to score the ball like Jordan did is a trait that could be argued is greater than any of the others. Last time I checked, it is the team with the most points at the end of the game that wins, regardless of all the other statistical categories.

 

[Big_Blue79]

The biggest of all is the constant "Jordan did it with less" or "Jordan did it by himself". I watched both, and I'm not sure how anyone determines which was better. They played in different eras, against different competition, and led their teams in different ways. They are not the same player, nor do they even play the same style.

Agreed with all of this. Scottie Pippen does not get his due. His 3 point shot was flat, and he acted like a baby once. But, man, he had everything else. All time wing defender. Terrific facilitator. Could score, rebound, whatever. Too bad his back got so bad or that Portland team (and he was probably the best of that ensemble) wins the title, imho. But Jordan had Pippen, and that doesn't diminish either. As a Bulls fan, I'm just glad I got to watch the 2 of them together. They were like a pack of wolves bringing down prey.

 

[louisvilleblue]

I watched the last 10 minutes of the game and have never seen so much flagrant holding and fouling. This is basketball at its absolute worse. Seriously though, if the refs called just every other foul both benches would be completely emptied. Pitiful.....

 

[Mike-D]

I like Golden State and would like to see a team built mostly from the draft win the title and they're not the typical 'load up Stars' squad and I would like to see Lebron lose and Cleveland stay title-less for eternity.

Plus Dell Curry is the one who taught me how to shoot at basketball camp as a kid and Steph is a humble guy (the opposite of Lebron).

It must suck to be miserable.

 

[caneintally]

Lebron changed pivot foots just to get the shot up. If that was called, there would have not been a shot attempt and a blown foul call.

 

[caneintally]

GSW is a very easy team to dislike.. Green is quickly becoming the biggest punk in the game with his mother taking the spot right behind him... The whole team seems to follow currys lead of throwing themselves into the defender for cheap fouls.. Theyd be smart to draft Duke players in the future.. It'd be a perfect fit.

what is funny is I said the same thing on facebook last night to my friends and they just said as a Cavs and Uk fan I was jealous of Duke and GS . LMAO

 

[WitnessGreatness]

This LeBron/Cavs hate is laughable. Talking about Cavs playing rugby even Bogut grabs a player whenever he can, sets illegal screens all game long, Draymond fouls on both jump balls and Iggy grabbing LeBron whenever he drives to the basket. Also pro game >>>> college game

 

[Blueaz]

Exactly. Dellavedova defended the holy hell out of Curry in that game. If Cavs fans want to find some sort of bright spot in Kyrie Irving's injury, there is it. Curry is now looking at having that relentless Aussie bulldog hounding him for 40 minutes every night instead of the often defensively-soft Kyrie.

And, interestingly enough, similar sort of tradeoff with Love's injury. Yeah, they lost a lot on offense there, but Tristan Thompson gives them a much tougher character on the defensive end.

sorry, I guess am the only one that thinks Dellavedova plays like a 5th grader on a sugar high. He grabs and fouls the entire time...he seems to play out of control on purpose.
oh and bron-bron has some points on the no calls at the end of the game

 

[WitnessGreatness]

well...I guess you told me.
BTW nice posting resume; it seems you have a hard time with opinions that don't fit your asssumptions

No I have a hard time with dumb opinions

 

[GonzoCat90]

Is this rugby ball the same kind or different from the "if you came down the lane the Bad Boys would hurt you back in the good old days" style that made MJ's era so superior?

 

[WitnessGreatness]

Is this rugby ball the same kind or different from the "if you came down the lane the Bad Boys would hurt you back in the good old days" style that made MJ's era so superior?

What's funny is everybody hated that style of play during that time period. Also, people saying rugby ball is what is being played right now is just their way of justifying how Cleveland is staying with Golden State. The two dirtiest players are on Golden State though

 

[Aike]

I don't like the way Cleveland is allowed to bump on the perimeter. It reminds me too much of UL.

One of the great things about the NBA lately is that they have cleaned a lot of that up. Will be interesting to see what happens for the rest of the series.

I'm no big fan of Bogut or Green either. GS has gotten away with murder all year. It just bothers me less when the action is under the basket.

I'm not a fan of either team, but I prefer a free flowing game. Hope we get to see a little more of that.

 

[twocoach]

I like Golden State and would like to see a team built mostly from the draft win the title and they're not the typical 'load up Stars' squad and I would like to see Lebron lose and Cleveland stay title-less for eternity.

Plus Dell Curry is the one who taught me how to shoot at basketball camp as a kid and Steph is a humble guy (the opposite of Lebron).

Only 6 of the 15 players on Golden State's roster were drafted by them. 6 were from free agency and 3 via trade. Cleveland is 4 from the draft (which technically doesn't included James who was drafted, left and came back, 6 from free agency and 5 via trade. Not really much different.

 

[twocoach]

Lebron fans will make up just about any stat to try to make Lebron look better than Jordan. If Lebron wills this team to win the title, then he will get major props from me. I just don't think it will happen. Golden State is too good to stay cold the rest of the series.

They are totally different players in different eras. It's pointless and impossible to compare them. I loved watching Jordan play and I love watching James play.

 

[UPSCat4080]

Whatever guy, do you even watch basketball?

Dude....I was agreeing with you lol. I was telling you not to let your facts get in the way or other people fabricating things. Your sarcasm meter must be off haha

 

[UPSCat4080]

I don't like the way Cleveland is allowed to bump on the perimeter.

Have you even watched Andre Igudola and Steph Curry play perimeter defense? They arm wrestle their guys all the way to the basket and are never whistled for a thing.

Steph Curry grabs ahold of JR Smiths arm while Smith is sticking his arm out to guard and pulls it into himself and the red whistles Smith for a foul lol.

No way anyone with 0% bias can say Cleveland has gotten any whistles in their benefit overall. It has been 100% in favor of the Warriors.

 

[LineSkiCat]

Off-topic, anyone watch Clutchcity that just premiered about the Rockets back-to-back title runs? Pretty good. It's re-airing now on NBATV.

 

[Aike]

Have you even watched Andre Igudola and Steph Curry play perimeter defense? They arm wrestle their guys all the way to the basket and are never whistled for a thing.

Steph Curry grabs ahold of JR Smiths arm while Smith is sticking his arm out to guard and pulls it into himself and the red whistles Smith for a foul lol.

No way anyone with 0% bias can say Cleveland has gotten any whistles in their benefit overall. It has been 100% in favor of the Warriors.

This might be one of the most laughably odd responses I've ever seen.

So if I have zero bias I must admit that the whistle has been 100% in favor of GS? 100%??? How is that even possible?

I'm honestly not for either team. Both teams play dirty defense. I think Cleveland is worse on the perimeter.

Mostly, I don't think Cleveland can hang with GS without fouling the crap out of them. I would like to find out. If they clean it up on both ends and Cleveland comes out ahead, bully for them. Tip of the cap.

 

[LineSkiCat]

I mean.. Cleveland DID hang with them last night, beating them on the road, and GSW clearly got the home calls. I think Cleveland proved they can hang just fine..

In looking at last night's game.. Game 2.. If the game were perfectly cleaned up.. Cleveland wins by an extra 6 to 10 points. The rough play was not in their favor, but in GSW's. LBJ gets called for some push offs.. Delly gets whistled more, probably runs into foul troubls.. But The Warriors would be in far worse shape.. Green, Thompson and Barnes probably foul out or spend even more time in foul trouble on the bench..

 

[UPSCat4080]

How funny...if Clevland wins its because they get by with fouling. If they lose its not because Golden State got most of the calls.

The Clevland and LeBron hate is ridiculous. Anyone with eye balls who ACTUALLY watched Games 1 and 2 can see that the Cavs have gotten the short end of the whistle. The problem is you have a bunch of guys who didn't even watch the game and just go off of what their other uninformed buddies told them.

 

[GonzoCat90]

This is really the style both teams like, Golden State just isn't used to being defended so well in return. I generally agree with cleaning up the game and letting it flow freely, but at the NBA level, in the playoffs, specifically the finals, I'm fine with letting the teams both play their style and deciding it without the whistle either way.

I say that as someone who is rooting for the historical significance of a LeBron title, but who DVR'd every Warriors game that was on TV this year, loves Kerr, loves Curry, loves Green, couldn't be happier to see Livingston get a ring while being an important contributor, and thinks Oakland has the best fans in the NBA.

 

[Aike]

Cavs shot 40 free throws. GS shot 25.

All the GS starters had 4 or 5 fouls. Only one Cleveland starter had more than 3 fouls.

Somebody might be biased here, but it ain't I.

I thought GS got lots of calls late, after they were in serious foul trouble. Refs tend to do that.

If JR Smith weren't the stupidest player on the planet, Cleveland would have doubled GS up from the line.

I'm not saying another word about this. I honestly don't care enough. Some of you are clearly emotionally invested in the Cavs if you feel so strongly that they are getting jobbed.

Maybe you guys can shoot 60 free throws tomorrow night and the Splash Brothers can foul out in the third quarter. Good luck.

 

[LineSkiCat]

You should never look at raw numbers of fouls and free throws. Never paints the whole story, especially when GSW is a very physically defensive minded team..they are going to foul alot. They can afford it with their depth. Cavs can't.

 

[Bigblueforever]

If Cleveland get those calls at home like GS did LBJ will give Cleveland a title.

 

[Big_Blue79]

Cavs shot 40 free throws. GS shot 25.

All the GS starters had 4 or 5 fouls. Only one Cleveland starter had more than 3 fouls.

Lol. Simple "analysis" appeals to the simple, I guess.

NBA admitted they missed two calls. First was Lebron's travel right before the (also missed) karate-chop. Ball went to GS, no real impact from the missed call. Second was the hold on the jump ball, which resulted in GS getting the ball and, eventually, 2 FTs from Curry to take the lead. If Cleveland had lost, I doubt they admit the second one.

 

[Aike]

Lol. Simple "analysis" appeals to the simple, I guess.

NBA admitted they missed two calls. First was Lebron's travel right before the (also missed) karate-chop. Ball went to GS, no real impact from the missed call. Second was the hold on the jump ball, which resulted in GS getting the ball and, eventually, 2 FTs from Curry to take the lead. If Cleveland had lost, I doubt they admit the second one.

I left, but I guess I'll come back if you are going to toss around cheap insults.

Free throws and fouls are a snap shot. Not trying to do in depth analysis here, just a quick counter to the perception that somehow GS was getting away with murder all night.

Golden St. was in foul trouble. Cleveland was not. Both teams play physically.

IMO, the calls favored Cleveland early and GS late.

People are all twisted up like we are talking about the UK/Wisconsin game. I am an impartial observer, offering my thoughts.

And oh by the way, I don't really care what the league says. They missed about 100 calls, both ways. They always do.

 

[Aike]

You should never look at raw numbers of fouls and free throws. Never paints the whole story, especially when GSW is a very physically defensive minded team..they are going to foul alot. They can afford it with their depth. Cavs can't.

This is a great point. Wisconsin plays without fouling too, and they also have a short bench.

Question: do they really play without fouling, or do the refs give them the benefit of the doubt, knowing that they have a short bench? Knowing that Ryan will growl at them every time the whistle blows?

 

[dvillecatfan]

when the game(s) mean something and the game is on the line, people play physical. starts on the playground and goes all the way to the NBA. why do people act like physical play is so foreign to the game.

 

[twocoach]

This is a great point. Wisconsin plays without fouling too, and they also have a short bench.

Question: do they really play without fouling, or do the refs give them the benefit of the doubt, knowing that they have a short bench? Knowing that Ryan will growl at them every time the whistle blows?

Good god. The coaches are going to growl at the refs no matter what they are calling. Some teams and players are smarter about how they foul and are able to get away with it. Some guys are dumb and just grab hold of people and get busted for it.