It was also the second time you mentioned him being fouled. We hear you. No, I really like LeBron actually. Also love the way GS plays. Who isn't giving him credit? What he's doing is amazing with a bunch of scrubs.
NBA Finals Game 2
- Thread starter UKWildcats#8
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They just beat a team that won 67 games in a LOADED Western Conference, that lost two games at home all season, on the road, with three starters out.
How? Because LeBron had 39-16-11. Good Lord. And he was more than good enough in Game 1 for the Cavs to win that one as well. People talk about great players making others better...I mean, how high on your all time list do you have to rank him at this point?
The rotation of this squad is just castaways from bad teams plus LeBron's old buddies. It's a roster that was landing the number one pick in back to back years and three times since LeBron left, minus every single player that was actually drafted number one. That they're even in the damn Finals is unreal. To actually win any games with what's left of this team is absurd.
Just watch and appreciate this level of basketball. There's never been this combination of scoring and making others better.
How? Because LeBron had 39-16-11. Good Lord. And he was more than good enough in Game 1 for the Cavs to win that one as well. People talk about great players making others better...I mean, how high on your all time list do you have to rank him at this point?
The rotation of this squad is just castaways from bad teams plus LeBron's old buddies. It's a roster that was landing the number one pick in back to back years and three times since LeBron left, minus every single player that was actually drafted number one. That they're even in the damn Finals is unreal. To actually win any games with what's left of this team is absurd.
Just watch and appreciate this level of basketball. There's never been this combination of scoring and making others better.
GSW is a very easy team to dislike.. Green is quickly becoming the biggest punk in the game with his mother taking the spot right behind him... The whole team seems to follow currys lead of throwing themselves into the defender for cheap fouls.. Theyd be smart to draft Duke players in the future.. It'd be a perfect fit.
The one thing the Cavs have going for them is that they've lost absolutely nothing defensively. In fact, they've probably gained, because Irving is mediocre on that end, and Love is flat-out bad. Offensively, yeah, they've taken a huge hit, but they have the ideal guy to just give the ball to and say "create something".
There's almost certainly going to be at least one game where the Warriors get hot and the Cavs have 0 answer, and it's hard to see LeBron keeping this up, but this clearly isn't the complete mismatch most people envisioned once Irving went down.
There's almost certainly going to be at least one game where the Warriors get hot and the Cavs have 0 answer, and it's hard to see LeBron keeping this up, but this clearly isn't the complete mismatch most people envisioned once Irving went down.
GS is in trouble if they cannot start hitting 3's at a higher clip (that is their MO) and for God's sake, stop letting the Cavs slaughter you on the offensive boards and rebounding overall. It can be argued GS lost due to not boxing out Della whatever in OT. Cleveland should be up 2-0, and this series would probably be over, but at this point looks 50/50 to me.
If Cleveland wins this series this is the most impressive thing Lebron will ever do, will not be topped. I expect them to be in the finals for years to come in a weak East, with or without Love returning, and Cleveland will probably win more in the coming seasons, but Lebron can say he won a title without another really all NBA type player. Jordan can't say that, Kobe can't say that, Shaq can't, Magic, Bird, etc.
If Cleveland wins this series this is the most impressive thing Lebron will ever do, will not be topped. I expect them to be in the finals for years to come in a weak East, with or without Love returning, and Cleveland will probably win more in the coming seasons, but Lebron can say he won a title without another really all NBA type player. Jordan can't say that, Kobe can't say that, Shaq can't, Magic, Bird, etc.
This. Can't stand him right now. He acts like a superstar who should get every call. Dude, you haven't established or done anything yet in the league. Shut up and play.
Agree completely. When he is not fouling, he is crying to the officials. He and Thompson play defense by holding. Also, Curry uses a push off every time he does a step back dribble. The guy has the fastest release in the NBA, I don't think he needs that push off.
I mean really. This Cleveland team is decimated. They have lost so many good players it is crazy. Lebron goes what.....37/19/11 last night. Those are some staggering numbers and especially in a road win. Jordan did the same thing, but at least he had a supporting cast of players. Thoughts?
You just described about 75% of the players in the league so you must hate the NBA in general.
Truthfully, I don't like either team very much.
GS plays like they are entitled. They also get away with a lot of cheap grabbing and holding.
Cleveland takes that up about 3 notches. They play rugby on hardwood, because it's their only chance to win.
Lebron is uber talented, but I've always hated all of his push offs, and bowling people over. He's like Shaq in that regard.
I'm for GS, only because they are fun to watch when they are clicking. All year, I expected them to go cold. They never have for more than a game or two. I expect them to figure this series out too, although it would help if the refs cleaned it up a lot.
Honestly, I just want to see greatness. Whether that is Steph, Klay, or LBJ, I really don't care. I'm tired of bully ball games that are 75% dictated by the refs.
GS plays like they are entitled. They also get away with a lot of cheap grabbing and holding.
Cleveland takes that up about 3 notches. They play rugby on hardwood, because it's their only chance to win.
Lebron is uber talented, but I've always hated all of his push offs, and bowling people over. He's like Shaq in that regard.
I'm for GS, only because they are fun to watch when they are clicking. All year, I expected them to go cold. They never have for more than a game or two. I expect them to figure this series out too, although it would help if the refs cleaned it up a lot.
Honestly, I just want to see greatness. Whether that is Steph, Klay, or LBJ, I really don't care. I'm tired of bully ball games that are 75% dictated by the refs.
Yep. I find it to be the worst league of the four big American based pro leagues. The officiating is garbage and corrupt and the inmates run the asylum. Players like Lebron, Harden, and Westbrook are the epitome of the "me" mentality. The egos are ridiculous especially Lebron's. He's always been super unlikable, in my opinion.
I agree that the egos are bad, and the whining is unbearable at times, but if you think that LeBron is a me player, we must be watching a different game. He is the epitome of a team player and at times he is too unselfish. He is the best ever at making the players around him better, imo.
Exactly. Dellavedova defended the holy hell out of Curry in that game. If Cavs fans want to find some sort of bright spot in Kyrie Irving's injury, there is it. Curry is now looking at having that relentless Aussie bulldog hounding him for 40 minutes every night instead of the often defensively-soft Kyrie.
And, interestingly enough, similar sort of tradeoff with Love's injury. Yeah, they lost a lot on offense there, but Tristan Thompson gives them a much tougher character on the defensive end.
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Could you please explain how the best passing forward in the world and the guy who's dished more assists to his teammates than any frontcourt player in the history of the game supposedly plays with a "me" mentality?
Do you even watch these games you comment on?
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Wow. I love watching James play and if you don't see that EVERY good player in the league past or present cries to the refs about fouls/no calls then you're not watching. Curry is doing it. Duncan and Kobe do it on practically every play they are involved in that doesn't end with a foul called on the other team.
And every elite player is egotistical. You HAVE to be to be that good. The best of the best at anything typically have huge egos> the best surgeons. The best actors. The best CEOs. The best athletes. The best politicians. You can't go out there in front of millions and compete against the best of the best if you don't think you're awesome. Complaining that a great NBA player has a big ego is like complaining that a supermodel is annoying because she thinks she's attractive. DUH. What do you think got them where they are?!?
Such a physical game, but the last few minutes and overtime were just over the top. Call fouls when fouls occur. Green (generally) and Igoudala (every Lebron drive) are constantly pushing, grabbing, pulling, etc... and they're both excellent defenders without those tactics. Refs have been swallowing their whistles too much.
Dellevadova has been excellent on defense, but let's not forget that Irving was actually good in game 1 as well (not just the block). Cleveland doing a very good job on PG defense is a credit to their players and, imho, Coach Blatt. Great job by Cleveland on defense.
Cleveland's offense, on the other hand, is ugly. That's on Lebron as he's just taking over. Credit to Lebron for getting it done against the #1 defense in the league, but there's got to be more flow, especially late. Reminds me of UK/Wisconsin where the system team gets better shots than the team trying to run out clock.
The foul where the offensive player jumps into the in-air defender has got to stop. The only time it was ever acceptable was when Sparks did it against UL. That's it. It's an abomination. You get your defender in the air? Great, you can now dribble past him. Advantage offense. But jumping into the defender in a "shot" attempt shows how far officiating has let guys go. That was clearly a foul by how the game is routinely called, but ideally it's not.
NBA refs and Lebron... it's gotten Shaq bad. They don't call anything. Walks, hacks, holds, push-offs, etc... why can't they just ref him the same as everyone else? Call the offensive fouls, call the defensive fouls, and let Lebron shoot the 22 FTAs a game he should be getting until defenders play him differently. There's no justification for letting more physical stuff go when you're dealing with a physical specimen. None. Just call the f'ing game. Does that mean Lebron gets more offensive fouls? Absolutely. But he's also going to get more defensive calls. Eventually, the game opens up and we have basketball again, not basketbrawl. It's worse at the college level b/c it's everyone, but it's more glaring in the NBA b/c only a few get the special (as in no calls both ways) treatment. It happens because the refs let it happen. If fixing the ugliness of basketball (college especially) means having some ugly games or even seasons, so be it.
One more time - Green should foul out of every game. He plays the way he does (and it's effective) because he gets away with it. If the game was called as it should be, he'd still be an elite defender because he has terrific timing, instincts, and basketball smarts. But he grabs/hooks/holds now because he can. Good for him, I guess.
Dellevadova has been excellent on defense, but let's not forget that Irving was actually good in game 1 as well (not just the block). Cleveland doing a very good job on PG defense is a credit to their players and, imho, Coach Blatt. Great job by Cleveland on defense.
Cleveland's offense, on the other hand, is ugly. That's on Lebron as he's just taking over. Credit to Lebron for getting it done against the #1 defense in the league, but there's got to be more flow, especially late. Reminds me of UK/Wisconsin where the system team gets better shots than the team trying to run out clock.
The foul where the offensive player jumps into the in-air defender has got to stop. The only time it was ever acceptable was when Sparks did it against UL. That's it. It's an abomination. You get your defender in the air? Great, you can now dribble past him. Advantage offense. But jumping into the defender in a "shot" attempt shows how far officiating has let guys go. That was clearly a foul by how the game is routinely called, but ideally it's not.
NBA refs and Lebron... it's gotten Shaq bad. They don't call anything. Walks, hacks, holds, push-offs, etc... why can't they just ref him the same as everyone else? Call the offensive fouls, call the defensive fouls, and let Lebron shoot the 22 FTAs a game he should be getting until defenders play him differently. There's no justification for letting more physical stuff go when you're dealing with a physical specimen. None. Just call the f'ing game. Does that mean Lebron gets more offensive fouls? Absolutely. But he's also going to get more defensive calls. Eventually, the game opens up and we have basketball again, not basketbrawl. It's worse at the college level b/c it's everyone, but it's more glaring in the NBA b/c only a few get the special (as in no calls both ways) treatment. It happens because the refs let it happen. If fixing the ugliness of basketball (college especially) means having some ugly games or even seasons, so be it.
One more time - Green should foul out of every game. He plays the way he does (and it's effective) because he gets away with it. If the game was called as it should be, he'd still be an elite defender because he has terrific timing, instincts, and basketball smarts. But he grabs/hooks/holds now because he can. Good for him, I guess.
I'm not sure what Green's deal is. Dude is a total POS. They even had to release a damn Beats commercial where they basically ask him why he's a D-bag... he's been in the league for 2 years! I don't remember him being like this AT ALL on MSU. What the hell happened?
@Big_Blue79 Cleveland is easily as dirty on D as GS and probably worse. Not sure how you can see the hacking and grabbing on one end and miss the constant bumping on the other.
Also, Lebron gets fouled a ton but dishes out just as much. He also has a history of going several games at a time without committing any fouls.
I agree that they need to clean it up - on both ends.
Also, Lebron gets fouled a ton but dishes out just as much. He also has a history of going several games at a time without committing any fouls.
I agree that they need to clean it up - on both ends.
Cleveland is also grabbing/bumping, etc... I didn't miss it, I just didn't comment on it. Green and Igoudala stood out to me, but I only watched the 4th quarter and OT this game. I wouldn't say "easily as dirty" and "probably worse," though. But I'm just going by what I see. I have no rooting interest, and I picked Golden State before the playoffs and before the finals. But the last 5 mins/OT was pretty bad, and on balance hurt Cleveland worse.
And I clearly stated they should call fouls on Lebron as well as his offensive fouls. It's gotten bad, and it's a bit of a chicken and egg situation between offensive and defensive fouling (which came first?), but generally calling fouls as they should be called favors the offensive player in the end. Some things are inherently difficult to call, especially the butt-bump post-up stuff, but grabbing/hacking on drives away from the basket is low hanging fruit. Just call it. Call the push offs, call the grabs, call the draping.
I'm with y'all on Draymond Green. Other then Frank Kaminsky and every player on the Wisconsin team from 2014-2015, there is no player I hate more in basketball. He complains any time he is called for a foul and 95% of the time its a blatant hack. Then he's also the type of player you hate unless he's on the team you're rooting for based on his style of play, intensity, and general demeanor. I can't believe he may get a max deal after this year. He's great for the Warriors, but put him on any other team and he's not worth more then 10 million a year.
Are you joking? Iguodala and Green bitched more then any two players then I've ever seen last night and over calls that were blatant fouls, meanwhile LeBron cries for being hacked over and over and he's the douche? LeBron cries all the time because the refs constantly let players foul him in the pain without calling fouls. Reminds me of how Shaq was treated. He'd get swatted like none other during a shot and no call. I think the similarity stems from both being so physically dominant that refs tend to hold their whistle. It shouldn't matter how strong or big you are, a foul is a foul is a foul.
Re reading the discussion its clear, by your own admission, that you are an NBA hater. So I probably shouldn't get into an NBA discussion with you as I don't think you can display objective opinions on the subject. The NBA has its problems, but I don't know how people can love college basketball so much and hate the NBA. I love college basketball equally with the NFL at the top of my sports love list, but lets get real, college basketball is just as big of joke as the NBA in many regards. See the NCAA and UNC..... Nothing to see here, just decades of cheating. Meanwhile back on the ranch.....
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Never been a Lebron fan unitl this year. I commend him for going back to play for Cleveland to bring them a title. That move alone gained him much respect in my corner. That being said, I have also realized he is the best player in the world right now. Jordan was during his prime, Kobe was during his prime, but now it's Lebron time. Got to give credit where credit is due. He is the only player leftthat is a TRUE SUPERSTAR. period
Threads like this are why shows like First Take have destroyed ESPN. What is the fascination with friendship and attitude and ego and personality? It's a sport, not a soap opera where they keep score.
I was also wondering how long it would take for the Warriors hate to show up. I figured they had a year or two, but I guess this deep run as the favorite has brought folks out early.
If you can't enjoy that basketball because Draymond Green fills his role or Steph Curry fiddles with his mouthpiece and has an attractive mom and cute daughter, maybe you're watching the wrong thing and sports aren't for you.
And if you still hate LeBron James at this point, I just don't know what more can be said to change your mind or if you've watched any sport since the 1960s.
Go on being miserable, I suppose. To each their own. I just don't understand it, and you're really missing out if these are the kind of things that you focus on or that upset you.
I was also wondering how long it would take for the Warriors hate to show up. I figured they had a year or two, but I guess this deep run as the favorite has brought folks out early.
If you can't enjoy that basketball because Draymond Green fills his role or Steph Curry fiddles with his mouthpiece and has an attractive mom and cute daughter, maybe you're watching the wrong thing and sports aren't for you.
And if you still hate LeBron James at this point, I just don't know what more can be said to change your mind or if you've watched any sport since the 1960s.
Go on being miserable, I suppose. To each their own. I just don't understand it, and you're really missing out if these are the kind of things that you focus on or that upset you.
Has nothing to do with assists. This is a guy who overrules a coach like the egomanic he is.
I prefer a Steph Curry to a Lebron any day of the week as a basketball fan.
This is an excellent post. I agree with every word.
I'm amazed how many comments by supposed sports fans today suggest that they either don't actually watch or don't understand the games. Instead, they often sound like the type of comments you'd expect of housewives gossiping about Reality TV shows, focusing on the superficial rather than the actual on court substance of the games. Just makes me shake my head at times.
I like Golden State and would like to see a team built mostly from the draft win the title and they're not the typical 'load up Stars' squad and I would like to see Lebron lose and Cleveland stay title-less for eternity.
Plus Dell Curry is the one who taught me how to shoot at basketball camp as a kid and Steph is a humble guy (the opposite of Lebron).
Why is it such a problem to dislike some players? Green is a D-bag for a laundry list of reasons. If you're the type who hates any big mega-star, that's one thing.. but having a few players who you root against, for completely valid reasons, is fine. There have been about a dozen players mentioned in this thread, and I like pretty much all of them. Not a fan of Green, and I'm pretty iffy on Curry at this point. Oh well, I guess.
And who in this thread is hating anyone for superficial reasons? I must have missed it.
And who in this thread is hating anyone for superficial reasons? I must have missed it.
You probably despise guys like Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, and Drew Brees, who all have the freedom to change a play during the game if they feel it is something that will work better and put their team in a better position to score. What is the difference between those signal callers and LeBron James? He is the quarterback of the team and if he feels a certain play will work better against a defense, he has earned the right to change a play or two from time to time. No difference whatsoever.
Just because Steph Curry looks 12 doesn't make him humble. He's as vicious as anyone on the planet. He'll cross you over and then poke his mouthpiece out like he's laughing at you. He'll let a three go and turn around like it's good before it even goes in.
And that's amazing and fun and entertaining and why we watch sports.
I'm just saying to always try and canonize whoever faces LeBron is stupid.
And that's amazing and fun and entertaining and why we watch sports.
I'm just saying to always try and canonize whoever faces LeBron is stupid.
I'm 40. Watched NBA basketball starting in the mid 80's. Jordan was a killer. When MJ left a 57 win Bulls team to go play baseball, the same guys won 55 without him the next year. Lebron left a 61 win team to go to Miami, the same guys won 19 the next year. I get the hate for Lebron, but Jordan's ego trumps Lebron's tenfold. There is no doubt that we are watching the best player in the world and one of the best 5 players of all time. He belongs in every conversation about the all time greats. If he carries this sorry bunch of replacement level players to a title, it will be the single greatest accomplishment by one guy in the history of team sport. Bar none.
After that incident where he over ruled the coach Chauncy Billups went on sportscaster and said that stuff happens ALL the time. Gave specific examples during their championship run when he overruled Larry Brown, a hall of fame coach. But I guess its only egotistical if its LeBron #biased
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