Michigan State 🙏

[ukcatz12]

The gun is just a tool that will always be attainable or exchanged for another as we regularly see other tools such as cars used.

I'll give you two choices. You're stuck in a store with someone wanting to carry out a mass killing. Would you rather them have a gun or a knife? Pretty easy choice if you ask me. A gun may just be a tool, but it makes it a hell of a lot easier to kill a lot of people very quickly.

 

[ukcatz12]

As I said both sides have agendas which also includes your site you posted. I don't think you can just say if 4 people are shot it is a mass shooting. It is much more complex than that in most cases. If one gang does a drive by on another gang standing on a corner that isn't the same thing as a shooting at a school or movie theater.

Does it really matter how we define mass shootings? A different definition isn't going to make it so fewer people are killed. The only thing that really matters is we're the only one of our contemporaries where schools, grocery stores, and festivals are shot up on a regular basis. Is a class room full of first graders getting shot up more acceptable if we say we've really only had 10 mass shootings instead of 500? No, it's not. The definition doesn't matter. We have a huge problem that no other first world country has.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

This story will fade away because there'll be a handful of other mass shootings in America by spring, but yes, narratives and such. Not sure why we don't just have a pinned mass shooting thread at this point.

That's something I think about and actually look forward to. No easy answers of course, but I remember the survivors of the Parkland shooting in FL speaking out, addressing the media, the country, politicians. What'd they get in return? A bit of support online, mockery from Fox News hosts, and a dipshit conspiracy nut calling them crisis actors for a few years until he was sued into oblivion. That's what an older generation gave them in return for surviving a mass shooting at their school. Can. Not. Wait until kids who've actually lived through this bullshit start making actual decisions for the rest of the country.

Kids like those from Columbine? The melodrama in your post is like saccharine.

 

[Deeeefense]

• McRae had had to forfeit a weapon and was sentenced to a year of probation after he was arrested in June 2019 by Lansing police and charged with a felony for carrying a concealed weapon without a permit, Ingham County court and state criminal records show. But in that case, he pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor for possession of a loaded firearm in a vehicle and was discharged from probation in May 2021, court records show. -CNN

Yea that's my understanding as well, he got a plea deal which is pretty typical, but the father knew he was mentally unstable and possessed fire arms so if there had been a red flag law he could have notified police and they could have got a court order to temporary impound his guns. Doesn't mean he would have but it was at least feasible.

 

[bigblueinsanity]

I'll give you two choices. You're stuck in a store with someone wanting to carry out a mass killing. Would you rather them have a gun or a knife? Pretty easy choice if you ask me. A gun may just be a tool, but it makes it a hell of a lot easier to kill a lot of people very quickly.

Complete non sequitur.

 

[Bill Cosby]

I'll give you two choices. You're stuck in a store with someone wanting to carry out a mass killing. Would you rather them have a gun or a knife? Pretty easy choice if you ask me. A gun may just be a tool, but it makes it a hell of a lot easier to kill a lot of people very quickly.

I’d rather have a gun. Regardless of what they have. And since they’re wanting to murder a bunch of people, I doubt they care what laws are in place regarding gun or knife ownership.

 

[JumperJack]

I'll give you two choices. You're stuck in a store with someone wanting to carry out a mass killing. Would you rather them have a gun or a knife? Pretty easy choice if you ask me. A gun may just be a tool, but it makes it a hell of a lot easier to kill a lot of people very quickly.

Lol. Shouldn’t the essential question be, WHY would someone come to a grocery store to commit mass murder and WHEN did those kinds of events start happening?

And besides, if they have a knife, what does that leave me?

 

[ukcatz12]

Lol. Shouldn’t the essential question be, WHY would someone come to a grocery store to commit mass murder and WHEN did those kinds of events start happening?

And besides, if they have a knife, what does that leave me?

Sure, but the WHY also happens in Australia, the UK, Germany, Japan, Spain, Italy, Canada, etc. etc. And yet mass shootings only happen here on a regular basis. What's more likely, the US has a 100,000% higher incidence rate of the WHY, or 100,000% more guns?

And even if we wanted to discuss the why, every time something like this happens one half of the country wants to address it, the other half says "now is not the time for politics" and sticks their head in the sand. If a Republican proposed a national mental healthy care funding bill that put in place systems to address the why it would get 100% Democratic support. But they won't, because the party line is gun worship and saying "now is not the time for politics" every time this happens. We've been through this an infinite number of times and it'll happen an infinite number more. Can we at least try something.

 

[ukcatz12]

Debunking Mass Shootings



I agree that it is a problem that needs to be address but it is also a scare tactic used by media and politicians. They skew numbers and data to fit their narrative. I saw one such instance where 2 neighbors got into an argument at their home and shot at each other. They lived across the street from a school so it was portrayed in the media as a mass shooting at a school because more than 1 person was involved and the school was within a certain range.

You cited an article that tries to debunk "The US is the only country where mass shootings happen" by linking to a list where the US has 8 of the top 20 deadliest mass shootings of all time. Any of our contemporary countries that are on the list show up once, because they do something to fix the issue when it happens. The only other country to show up twice is Kenya. Is that really the standard we're holding America to?

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Sure, but the WHY also happens in Australia, the UK, Germany, Japan, Spain, Italy, Canada, etc. etc. And yet mass shootings only happen here on a regular basis. What's more likely, the US has a 100,000% higher incidence rate of the WHY, or 100,000% more guns?

And even if we wanted to discuss the why, every time something like this happens one half of the country wants to address it, the other half says "now is not the time for politics" and sticks their head in the sand. If a Republican proposed a national mental healthy care funding bill that put in place systems to address the why it would get 100% Democratic support. But they won't, because the party line is gun worship and saying "now is not the time for politics" every time this happens. We've been through this an infinite number of times and it'll happen an infinite number more. Can we at least try something.

I bet when you say your opposition desires “gun worship,” you make a profound impact on those reading and influence them in your favor. I am sure that is an excellent tactic (this from someone who is not a gun enthusiast). Makes you sound sincere. Because gun worship is a real thing. Right?

The issue, of course, is that sane people who own guns know that the only people in real danger from their gun ownership are bad people trying to hurt the gun owner. They also know that bad people break the law and only law abiding people will turn over their guns. Getting rid of guns is not the answer. Most objective experts don’t believe that is possible in this country.

Right, so if people are arguing that they need an AR-15 to "take on the government" and Biden says you'd actually need nuclear weapons and F-15s then what the hell are you trying to buy ARs for? In a completely imagined scenario where the government were to actually show up at your front door and try to harm you, you are going to die whether you have an AR or not. There are limits to what these amendments are actually talking about.

Did McRae have an AR-15?

 

[JumperJack]

Sure, but the WHY also happens in Australia, the UK, Germany, Japan, Spain, Italy, Canada, etc. etc. And yet mass shootings only happen here on a regular basis. What's more likely, the US has a 100,000% higher incidence rate of the WHY, or 100,000% more guns?

And even if we wanted to discuss the why, every time something like this happens one half of the country wants to address it, the other half says "now is not the time for politics" and sticks their head in the sand. If a Republican proposed a national mental healthy care funding bill that put in place systems to address the why it would get 100% Democratic support. But they won't, because the party line is gun worship and saying "now is not the time for politics" every time this happens. We've been through this an infinite number of times and it'll happen an infinite number more. Can we at least try something.

You make a really good point, all except for that last sentence. That’s the scary part.

I’d add: more money for more programs to handle mental health sounds great but again, why are we so mentally unwell? Drugs? Broken homes? Crumbling morality? Immoral culture?

Some of us want to see these things addressed. They underpin a lot of other societal problems.

 

[Bill Cosby]

If you guys appoint a few more SCOTUS Justices who can’t even tell you what a woman is, you’ll be able to eviscerate the second amendment without ever having to actually address the mental health issues that make it a popular democrat position that you can’t define a woman, etc.

 

[Bill Cosby]

Are kids in other countries as doped up on pharmaceuticals and addicted to social media as those in the US? Has a welfare system ensured a significant portion of certain communities grow up in broken homes and fatherless households?

Rather than shitting on the second amendment for all people, let’s ban pharmaceutical companies from advertising medicines, ban politicians from ever accepting jobs with companies they were charged with regulating, and lock up the mentally ill in insane asylums rather than celebrating their mental health issues.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

I didn't have time to do ALL the "mass shootings" this year, but I think we all can see where this was going. I feel pretty confident that if I stay out of the hood, the chance of me being a victim of a mass shooting drops exponentially.

That doesn't mean we don't need more funding for mental health, OR that we couldn't use some stricter screening process for gun purchasing.. but there's a 3rd factor here that seems no one wants to talk about.

Dems can finger wag at repubs all they want.. But they cried and virtue signaled when Rudy cleaning up NYC and dropped crime rates so much that it actually made the city safe to visit in the 90s'. Clean up the ghettos and you'll stop 80% of this years mass shootings.

 

[JonathanW]

I'll give you two choices. You're stuck in a store with someone wanting to carry out a mass killing. Would you rather them have a gun or a knife? Pretty easy choice if you ask me. A gun may just be a tool, but it makes it a hell of a lot easier to kill a lot of people very quickly.

Well, if he wants to do a mass killing, and not have a gun, he would probably choose a bomb instead of a knife. And I like my chances vs a gun better than vs a bomb. Just saying.

Yes, a gun makes it a lot easier to kill multiple people. And an automatic or semi-automatic weapon makes it even more easy. But just because something is illegal doesn't mean bad people can't/won't access them, or make them, or buy them off black market. It does though make it more of a challenge to obtain, so the person who momentarily goes berzerk (i.e. the Postal Worker stereotype) might not get a gun if were illegal (before coming to their senses).

 

[bigblueinsanity]

Mass murderer events don't just happen here. That's an entirely false premise and a lie. They happen everywhere just with a different frequency. They happen in places where guns are completely banned, sometimes with guns sometimes with other weapons including knives, cars, bombs.

Anytime someone says these only happen here is either intentionally disingenuous or repeating an intentional falsehood. It's a political stance with the sole purpose of the political goal of banning guns. It has nothing to do with addressing the issues that actually matter

 

[MatteoV25]

I bet when you say your opposition desires “gun worship,” you make a profound impact on those reading and influence them in your favor. I am sure that is an excellent tactic (this from someone who is not a gun enthusiast). Makes you sound sincere. Because gun worship is a real thing. Right?

The issue, of course, is that sane people who own guns know that the only people in real danger from their gun ownership are bad people trying to hurt the gun owner. They also know that bad people break the law and only law abiding people will turn over their guns. Getting rid of guns is not the answer. Most objective experts don’t believe that is possible in this country.


Did McRae have an AR-15?

I have no idea what kind of gun he used but even so, one case safely assume that more people would've been shot if he had an AR-15 so that's kind of a stupid point that you're trying to make.

 

[Creed Bratton]

You cited an article that tries to debunk "The US is the only country where mass shootings happen" by linking to a list where the US has 8 of the top 20 deadliest mass shootings of all time. Any of our contemporary countries that are on the list show up once, because they do something to fix the issue when it happens. The only other country to show up twice is Kenya. Is that really the standard we're holding America to?

Who do you consider our "contemporaries"?

 

[LineSkiCat14]

Also, we're like a year away from 3D printed guns.. so none of this is going to matter lol.

 

[MatteoV25]

If you guys appoint a few more SCOTUS Justices who can’t even tell you what a woman is, you’ll be able to eviscerate the second amendment without ever having to actually address the mental health issues that make it a popular democrat position that you can’t define a woman, etc.

Trans people represent around 1% of the population. Why is every other word out of a Republican's mouth about trans people? There are more pressing issues than trying to take rights away from people who just want to live their lives. It's not a community-wide strategy among trans people to indoctrinate your children, it's literally a talking point made up by Republican strategists to rile up their base and get them to follow their every word. Clearly it's working, you small-minded sheep.

 

[Bill Cosby]

Trans people represent around 1% of the population. Why is every other word out of a Republican's mouth about trans people? There are more pressing issues than trying to take rights away from people who just want to live their lives. It's not a community-wide strategy among trans people to indoctrinate your children, it's literally a talking point made up by Republican strategists to rile up their base and get them to follow their every word. Clearly it's working, you small-minded sheep.

lol

A scotus appointee wasn’t even allowed to explain what a woman is for fear of pissing off the democrats. Multiple top Biden administration officials were appointed because they’re mentally ill. Celebrating mental illness is a big democrat party platform. That has nothing to do with you groomers abusing kids.


And mental illness spans far further than gender dysmorphia. Depression, obesity acceptance, etc. All shit you clowns celebrate.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

I have no idea what kind of gun he used but even so, one case safely assume that more people would've been shot if he had an AR-15 so that's kind of a stupid point that you're trying to make.

I think YOU are trying to make a point. YOU are posting about ARs in a thread about a shooter that apparently did not use an AR. I know this, because if he did use an AR and your comments were actually relevant to the horrific event, you would know. I asked a question. YOU attempted to make a point.

 

[JumperJack]

Trans people represent around 1% of the population. Why is every other word out of a Republican's mouth about trans people? There are more pressing issues than trying to take rights away from people who just want to live their lives. It's not a community-wide strategy among trans people to indoctrinate your children, it's literally a talking point made up by Republican strategists to rile up their base and get them to follow their every word. Clearly it's working, you small-minded sheep.

Yes, it’s a real mystery as to who is pushing this issue.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

By the way, I am getting closer and closer to buying and owning an AR. I listened to an FFL opine that it is the best weapon for home safety. Much better than a handgun. And, that made sense.

 

[JumperJack]

Back to guns…the point was made that the great majority of “mass shootings” are more aptly labeled “violent crime”. Maybe we should keep violent criminals in jail while simultaneously addressing fatherless communities.

 

[MatteoV25]

lol

A scotus appointee wasn’t even allowed to explain what a woman is for fear of pissing off the democrats. Multiple top Biden administration officials were appointed because they’re mentally ill. Celebrating mental illness is a big democrat party platform. That has nothing to do with you groomers abusing kids.


And mental illness spans far further than gender dysmorphia. Depression, obesity acceptance, etc. All shit you clowns celebrate.

So you're mad that non-white, non-heterosexual people are being hired for jobs that have historically always gone to straight, white men? Interesting. Celebrating diversity and acknowledging that people are different seems like a better strategy than belittling people who have consistently been pushed aside by people who don't like change.

You seem to have soaked up those Republican talking points like your life depends on it. I wonder what else they're going to tell you to be upset about next. Last week, it was M&M's, will it be Skittles this week?

 

[LineSkiCat14]

Back to guns…the point was made that the great majority of “mass shootings” are more aptly labeled “violent crime”. Maybe we should keep violent criminals in jail while simultaneously addressing fatherless communities.

The hope was that legalization of marijuana would help keep fathers in homes and not in jail.. and I do think that will help. But as Marijuana can be purchased at a store, will criminals just turn to the next illegal thing to sell, seeing as how their past business dried up?

Have to do something about the inner cities.

 

[Bill Cosby]

So you're mad that non-white, non-heterosexual people are being hired for jobs that have historically always gone to straight, white men? Interesting. Celebrating diversity and acknowledging that people are different seems like a better strategy than belittling people who have consistently been pushed aside by people who don't like change.

You seem to have soaked up those Republican talking points like your life depends on it. I wonder what else they're going to tell you to be upset about next. Last week, it was M&M's, will it be Skittles this week?

If you read “mentally ill” then fly off the rails ranting about homosexuals and non-white people, you are very likely mentally ill.

So thank you for proving my point. And please, ask your parents to lock up any firearms they might have in the house.

 

[MatteoV25]

I think YOU are trying to make a point. YOU are posting about ARs in a thread about a shooter that apparently did not use an AR. I know this, because if he did use an AR and your comments were actually relevant to the horrific event, you would know. I asked a question. YOU attempted to make a point.

Isn't that what everyone on this board is trying to do when they post anything? We're all trying to make a point, you're only concerned about it when someone else's point doesn't agree with yours.

It all has to do with gun violence and stricter gun laws. It doesn't matter that this shooting didn't have an AR involved, it's that in the grand scheme of things, ARs make it easier for people who are mentally ill to shoot more people and all of the shootings with the most victims involved ARs.

Someone on your side of aisle brought up trans people, I don't see you scolding them when that has absolutely zero amount of relevance to what's going on.

 

[MatteoV25]

Yes, it’s a real mystery as to who is pushing this issue.

You all are so obsessed with this person, it's adorable.

 

[MatteoV25]

If you read “mentally ill” then fly off the rails ranting about homosexuals and non-white people, you are very likely mentally ill.

So thank you for proving my point. And please, ask your parents to lock up any firearms they might have in the house.

Because I know what your side means when you call people mentally ill. Your side is so worried about is how the Biden administration is hiring so many minorities and so many people in the LGBTQ+ community. Now the narrative to get you all pissed is that they're diversity hires, affirmative action, etc. and again, it's working. 🐑🐑🐑

 

[Catman100]

Trans people represent around 1% of the population. Why is every other word out of a Republican's mouth about trans people? There are more pressing issues than trying to take rights away from people who just want to live their lives. It's not a community-wide strategy among trans people to indoctrinate your children, it's literally a talking point made up by Republican strategists to rile up their base and get them to follow their every word. Clearly it's working, you small-minded sheep.

Can't that be said about lawful gun owners?

 

[MatteoV25]

Can't that be said about lawful gun owners?

Of course, luckily there's not a widespread attempt to take away guns from people who lawfully own them and aren't using them to commit mass shootings.

 

[Catman100]

Of course, luckily there's not a widespread attempt to take away guns from people who lawfully own them and aren't using them to commit mass shootings.

Really? Do you live in the USA or on Mars.
Congrats on colonizing that place, I had no idea we were even there.

 

[MatteoV25]

Really? Do you live in the USA or on Mars.
Congrats on colonizing that place, I had no idea we were even there.

Wanting to have stricter gun laws does not mean anyone is trying to take your guns away. There's a difference

 

[Catman100]

Wanting to have stricter gun laws does not mean anyone is trying to take your guns away. There's a difference

When Joe Biden says nobody should have an AR-15, is he only talking about criminals?

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Isn't that what everyone on this board is trying to do when they post anything? We're all trying to make a point, you're only concerned about it when someone else's point doesn't agree with yours.

It all has to do with gun violence and stricter gun laws. It doesn't matter that this shooting didn't have an AR involved, it's that in the grand scheme of things, ARs make it easier for people who are mentally ill to shoot more people and all of the shootings with the most victims involved ARs.

Someone on your side of aisle brought up trans people, I don't see you scolding them when that has absolutely zero amount of relevance to what's going on.

I asked you a simple question seeking context and you got triggered.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Because I know what your side means when you call people mentally ill. Your side is so worried about is how the Biden administration is hiring so many minorities and so many people in the LGBTQ+ community. Now the narrative to get you all pissed is that they're diversity hires, affirmative action, etc. and again, it's working. 🐑🐑🐑

🤦‍♂️

You are off the rails.

 

[MatteoV25]

When Joe Biden says nobody should have an AR-15, is he only talking about criminals?

If only there were a way to know when someone would commit a crime before they do it. Then we could make sure those people wouldn't be able to get AR-15s but unfortunately for everyone, that doesn't exist. The Federal Assault Weapons Ban existed only a few decades ago, it's not inconceivable to think that AR-15s should be banned.

 

[MatteoV25]

I asked you a simple question seeking context and you got triggered.

I always run into you on here, you have a tendency of being condescending. Go back to bed old man