But thank God everyone could still have their ARs to own the libs and shoot bud light cans just as the founding fathers intended right?
Mass shooting at Old National Bank in Downtown Louisville
- Thread starter Nightwish84
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right on cue. Someone mentions some common sense laws that admittedly won’t stop every attack and you immediately say it’s a non starter. Yes, we need to cover it less on the news too
By name call them out on TV as a terrorist. Put their name beside Osama bin Laden and Timothy McVeigh, pick apart their lives and every mistake they've ever made. Pile on them non-stop for as long as it can be sustained and at every opportunity because you want to demonize their names and everything about them as quickly as possible.
You're not doing that to embarrass or dissuade the person that did it, you are doing it to make other nuts not want to copy it.
You DO cover the shootings, but you make it about what a horrible human being the shooter is and that they are the scourge of the earth and a terrorist to their own people and country.
You stop putting the victims front and center. You talk to the families and you tell them why you need to do it this way. You pass laws making it illegal to film funerals without consent. You have the President and whoever else meet privately with the families.
Completely change everything about the way we are covering things now, basically.
Because I'm not dumb and want to waste my time with window dressing that will accomplish nothing. There is no viable... VIABLE... passable gun control legislation that will mean anything to these shootings. It's a cheap political victory that I am not interested in. I want to stop these shootings by attacking the root cause.
I just don't see that discouraging any of these types of people.
Then you don't understand why they are doing it.
These are hurt failed people that want to inflict as much pain and sympathy as they can before they go out. That's who's doing these.
They see this coverage on television and it is very appealing to them. To hurt others as much as they are hurting. To have them be acknowledged. To have people talk about what good people they were before they snapped. To create in as many people as possible the pain they are consumed by.
Stop giving the next shooter the blueprint for what they want most. Instead make them know how reviled they will be and don't advertise the pain they seek to inflict on everyone else. They certainly don't want to become the object of hatred.
Remember how strongly the hatred was unleashed on McVeigh for the picture of that fireman carrying that little girl? That's the kind of public backlash and hatred we need to unleash in the media on these shooters. There were no more McVeighs for a reason.
With candy canes and lolli pops and whatever fictional world you live in where somehow covering it less on tv is going to change a deranged persons mind?
True. They’re still going to commit the murders though. Media attention isn’t their biggest reason to do all this
Yeah, I’m just not following your logic on the coverage. We don’t want the murderer on the cover of Rolling Stone as if he’s a pop star, but 1) I doubt these young guys are watching hours of cable news and 2) at some point within the last few years, coverage became more focused on the victims and their stories which ended tragically. And McVeigh was practically fawned over in the 90s. The reason there’s no more McVeigh’s is because we don’t live in a third world country where buildings are bombed by terrorists on a constant basis. We’d have to really let our guard down to allow another OKC type bombing.
Impossible with social media. On Monday morning, I typed “Louisville” into the twitter search function and found several popular accounts retweeting the murderer’s identity and appearing to be more upset that on one of the killer’s social media accounts he happened to use “he/him.” Yes, instead of being saddened by the tragedy or angered that this keeps happening, social media was ablaze because of “pronouns” while at the same time spreading his identity all over the internet.
Yeah, they're all McVeigh's. They're all suicide bombers. They already devalue human life. They've already been bullied, ridiculed, isolated and radicalized. Like McVeigh, they often struggle in relationships. They utilize the assault weapon of mass destruction because it's widely available and super easy to get even. Making them even more infamous makes it worse. Not better.
Exactly. I don't disagree with him about labeling them terrorists, because they are as far as I'm concerned. But as far as that being a deterrent to these people, I just don't see the reasoning behind it. I don't think these people are being lionized by anyone.
Just by the responses I see in here we're doomed to repeat our failures. It is inevitable because people see political opportunity and have zero interest in actually identifying and dealing with the root cause.
Unless you're going to drastically do something about the availability of guns (which never ever never will happen and is foolish to entertain as a solution because of it) then what I am talking about is the only meaningfully successful way to stop most of this.
Mental health? Do you have any idea how much money we've spent on drug treatment and counselling? How's it looking out there?
Make these mass shootings something people wouldn't aspire to do by piling on them and demonizing the act otherwise you are not going to stop it.
Unless you're going to drastically do something about the availability of guns (which never ever never will happen and is foolish to entertain as a solution because of it) then what I am talking about is the only meaningfully successful way to stop most of this.
Mental health? Do you have any idea how much money we've spent on drug treatment and counselling? How's it looking out there?
Make these mass shootings something people wouldn't aspire to do by piling on them and demonizing the act otherwise you are not going to stop it.
I agree with much of that. Yhe coverage breeds more events . Gives them what they want. They are suicidal and want to go out like the rest. I am not sure a crazy that kills for notoriety cares about the child carried out by a fireman when the pain from seeing that is what the seek.
I think they want to be the tough guy headed into the final combat. That is why they mostly dress in black and carry a tricked out looking rifle. If they had to carry a pink rifle they would use a hand gun.
As for your close...no more OKC events. You draw the wrong conclusion. The reason. The govt has not perpetrated any more Waco + Ruby Ridges on the people.
That’s still not going to stop them. When someone snaps and decides to kill a bunch of people I really don’t think they care about what other people think them.
It wasn't the image of the child, it was the global public reaction to that image of the child which was pure unvarnished hatred towards who did that. If we could capture and distill that backlash and then unleash it on these shooters then they'd never be another one.
We literally had the President of the United States come out and say on television we're going to execute this guy. That's perfect. Our reaction to McVeigh was perfect and there hasn't been another one.
We literally had the President of the United States come out and say on television we're going to execute this guy. That's perfect. Our reaction to McVeigh was perfect and there hasn't been another one.
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You're right. We can solve the intricate, horrifying problem of mass shootings through a *checks notes* PR campaign.
If the media didn't talk about the shooter or their past, you guys would just claim it's a conspiracy. "The Lamestream Media refuses to talk about *insert random school here*. The gay frogs must have gotten ahold of the space lasers"
When you say "you guys" then I am a liberal. Been one my whole life. Check out the political thread sometime.
Yes, our "PR" as you dismiss it as is exactly what is perpetuating these shootings. Not guns nor mental health. We've made this sort of thing attractive to poor disaffected lost men looking to lash out and hurt the world just so we would know they were here.
Oh, you keep peddling your red flag laws and trying to pry guns away from folks that aren't going to give them up and beat your head against that wall. Meanwhile more and more of these will pop up until we learn it is indeed all about the PR.
.....because there have been no more Waco or Ruby Ridges. If the Govt was still burning women and children like they did to the Branch Davidians there certainly would be. No more triggering events.
School shooters are attacking the object of their anger. They were mostly all bullied at some point. Wierd kid with few friends. Hours online with shooting games. Influenced by media coverage. Many things. Spiraling into mental illness and nobody interceeding.
You don't have to tell me about Waco and Ruby Ridge as I am very familiar with them both. I've read multiple books on them and I know them down to the most intimate detail and I know what you're saying.
We've had George Floyd, the LA riots, we've had all manner of heinous opportunities for some twisted person to try another McVeigh but there will never be another one. We so completely hated on that guy that virtually nobody wanted to go down that road again. It ended with him because nobody would ever aspire to be him or do what he did. We snuffed that out in the public mind forever because of the image of that fire fighter and that little girl and the GLOBAL reaction to them.
Give the shooters the McVeigh treatment. Have the President just rip into the shooter by name and call them a terrorist and if one lives then promise to execute him just like we did McVeigh. That is the way forward if you want to stop these.
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You're a liberal in the same way that Bill Maher is. More of a centrist.
If you think that a PR campaign is going to stop anyone, you're delusional. I agree, we shouldn't be plastering their name and face all over the news. But you know where I first heard of it? Twitter alert. The youth of today would MUCH rather be famous on social media than CNN/Fox News, etc. So, how do you plan on policing that? Do you want to restrict everyone's social media accounts from mentioning their name?
The issue is, no one wants to attack the real problems. I say mental health, you say HIPPA. I say gun control, you say second amendment. I say background checks, you scream about privacy.
You and everyone else just want to kick the can down the road until Kid Rock picks it up and shoots it.
A simple Google search would show you that a McVeigh copycat was arrested in a failed attempt about 5 years ago. Guess the PR campaign didn't reach him. Better get Don Draper and the boys on it this time.
You nailed me as I am exactly a Bill Maher liberal. I even describe myself that way.
You raise a number of very good points here and the whole social media angle is a big problem and a legitimate counter to what I am saying, at least better than some of the others.
You seem to enjoy bashing the power of PR, though? It is only probably the most powerful tool in the world today so you may want to reevaluate how important it is on these shootings. I believe it is the driving force which is creating them.
But you said there will never be another McVeigh. And yet, there was a guy who idolized him and sought to carry out a similar attack. Or was he a government agent unleashed to strengthen the new ad campaign?
It’s evidently a good gun for home protection. For many, better than a handgun. So I have been told by a Navy Seal and an FFL. You think the world is a safer place if I don’t have that protection?
So you found one guy since 1995 and you seriously want to counter the number of mass shootings we're having now with it?
Great point. They're exactly the same.
Address our PR problem or more are going to keep happening. We are doing it wrong.
Poor woman. My heart breaks for her and all who suffered losses that day. Horrific.
You’re comparing buying an easily attainable gun to acquiring tons of fertilizer and oil along with the knowledge of how to make a massive, homemade bomb.
It’s not even in the same stratosphere man.
Kids off social media would be a good thing for kids, not punishment. I am not advocating for a law, but if you are a parent who has acquiesced to the social norm of letting your children on social media, you have not contributed to their overall wellbeing, IMO.
Federal and state forfeiture laws help to supplement the cost of law enforcement. Items sold or put into service include property used to further a criminal enterprise or property purchased with illegal gains. People on both sides of the aisle claim to be against forfeiture of property as a punishment for criminal behavior.
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You think strawman hyperbole makes this a better conversation or are you just trying to deal with your own issues by purging here?
McVeigh was not interested in committing suicide. He tried to escape. Completely different motivation than a suicidal <25yo. His motivation was obvious. Attack and get away. He spoke to collateral damage, battle terms. Against a tyranical fed govt that clearly had killed women and children. Not remotely the same situation with the rampage shooter who targets victims indiscriminately and wants to die in the process.
The Mauro Bldg was the target because it was a Fed Bldg. Those inside govt employees...and a daycare. He saw it the same way as we view collateral damage when we shoot a missile into a building in Iraq. At least we attempt to limit civilian casualties. He was at war with the govt. These shooters are at war with themselves.
But when all of their friends are on social media and they’re going to be the odd man out, what do you do? Is getting bullied good for their well-being?
My son is a toddler. I’m hoping by the time he’s old enough for electronics, AI has taken over the internet and made the fake world so realistic that humans have started back towards a life where people actually interact in person because it’s the only way to know if anything is real.
More likely, people are going to continue getting more and more addicted to their electronics, have no idea how to live outside of the internet, virtual reality and a computer screen, then society will fall into utter chaos when the power grid is shut down and the online lives are gone, and no one can travel anywhere because electric forms of transportation are dead.
I know you're trying to make light of that argument but it has definitely become harder to obtain a license now that these regional offices have taken over for county court houses.
You've said this before and it's still dumb. If they're willing to massacre dozens of people and get in a shootout with police then I really don't think they're going to care if they get called a terrorist. That's not a buzzword like it used to be. We once knew terrorists as Al-Qaeda and ISIS, but once we started calling BLM, the Proud Boys, and Antifa as terrorists then that REALLY lowered how powerful that word is to people. At least to normal people.
Also, you said in a post just before this that you're worried about all that society throws at kids and then immediately say after that increased mental health funding in schools will do nothing. How does that make sense?
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