Mass shooting at Old National Bank in Downtown Louisville

[PTI (pti)]

So which do you want to be taught, CMD??

That Indian tribes were peace loving or that they were constantly fighting with one another? Personally, I prefer the truth, but I was taught the former. Definitely remember all the folksy rhetoric about the big peaceful Thanksgiving meal amongst friends, too.

Just teach the truth. Not too much to ask.

 

[Hank Camacho]

CatManDoo needs to sit through a few land acknowledgement ceremonies to address his problematic and bigoted statements regarding Native Americans, imo.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Yea I tend to tune out when the first statement is “liberals think…” or “conservatives think..” I’d be more apt to discuss if we were weighing ramifications of charging adolescents as adults and whether it’s ethical to do that.

But given the claim, I’d be curious on data that supports increase in juvenile gun violence predicated on not trying juveniles as adults

I look forward to your research. Thanks.

 

[PTI (pti)]

I hate the term “woke,” but I’ve seen the absolute next level version of it a few times where people acknowledge the ancestral lands they’re currently standing on while introducing themselves.

Makes the stated pronouns look like child’s play imho.

 

[CatManDoo]

So which do you want to be taught, CMD??

That Indian tribes were peace loving or that they were constantly fighting with one another?

Neither, because it's not that simple. That's my point - both positions contain truth.

 

[CatManDoo]

Just to be clear - the Native American experience is one that has absolutely been sanitized over the years. I had a problem with that as much as I do the over-correction we're seeing now. The truth is, as with most things, somewhere in the middle.

 

[Hank Camacho]

I hate the term “woke,” but I’ve seen the absolute next level version of it a few times where people acknowledge the ancestral lands they’re currently standing on while introducing themselves.

Makes the stated pronouns look like child’s play imho.

You mean like this one from the University of Minnesota Medical School?

 

[PTI (pti)]

You mean like this one from the University of Minnesota Medical School?

View embedded media

“So anyways, now we get back to getting rich delivering sick care to hundreds of millions of fat Americans!”

 

[Hank Camacho]

“So anyways, now we get back to getting rich delivering sick care to hundreds of millions of fat Americans!”

 

[DrH. Lecter]

First DrH lies and says my study was mostly gang shooting and whatnot and when I prove that is a lie he then claims Mother Jones wrote it?

I'm going to start ignoring this guy as he is a proven liar IMO and is purposefully running around being a douchbag for some reason.

From your own earlier post:

hile we gathered names and incidents from academic (e.g. Stanford University), governmental/public (e.g. FBI data), and lay/popular (e.g. Murderpedia, Mother Jones) sourc

No serious person or data comes via Mother Jones.

 

[LOL_Man]

From your own earlier post:



No serious person or data comes via Mother Jones.

Wow. You really are one completely dishonest dude. Liar, matter of fact. Let's take a look at what you are hiding from everyone and look at the full quote you snipped from:

Critically, while we gathered names and incidents from academic (e.g. Stanford University), governmental/public (e.g. FBI data), and lay/popular (e.g. Murderpedia, Mother Jones) sources, all other information in our database was obtained from contemporaneous, primary sources and reports (i.e. we did not use any information from the non-primary sources listed in online Supplementary Table S1, beyond perpetrator names, except for the Everytown for Gun Safety report). This was done to reduce the possibility of misclassifying cases of mass murder in which psychotic symptoms had been overlooked or mischaracterized by previous reports. All data came from contemporaneous, English-language media reports, as well as court/police reports when available online (11%). When information was available in one of these other sources (e.g. Stanford database) or on a website (e.g. Wikipedia, Mother Jones), but no English-language, contemporaneous, primary source was available, we excluded the case (N = 501). We also excluded mass murders for which we lacked information on victim count or method (N = 369), the minimal amount of information required for inclusion. While we did not require demographic information, per se, this was available for most perpetrators. Please see the online Supplement

So what the study was doing was searching everywhere available for shooting incidents (which is where Mother Jones was included in a layperson category no less) just for the name only so they could then research the incident and see if it fit in the criteria of their study. They were looking for names, essentially.

And you come in here and spin that as it was a Mother Jones study?

Yes, you're an intentional provable liar and everyone that has the misfortune of reading your posts is being lied to and manipulated by a proven unmasked intentional LIAR.

The research paper I cited and linked is from the most reputable source in the field in the country today in the Columbia University Department of Psychiatry, liar. Not Mother Jones.

 

[DrH. Lecter]

Wow. You really are one completely dishonest dude. Liar, matter of fact. Let's take a look at what you are hiding from everyone and look at the full quote you snipped from:


So what the study was doing was searching everywhere available for shooting incidents (which is where Mother Jones was included in a layperson category no less) just for the name only so they could then research the incident and see if it fit in the criteria of their study. They were looking for names, essentially.

And you come in here and spin that as it was a Mother Jones study?

Yes, you're an intentional provable liar and everyone that has the misfortune of reading your posts is being lied to and manipulated by a proven unmasked intentional LIAR.

The research paper I cited and linked is from the most reputable source in the field in the country today in the Columbia University Department of Psychiatry, liar. Not Mother Jones.

I point out its proud use of Mother Jones as a source which tells anyone the leaning of the study. You respect that source but I would ask...what would you think that a study using NRA data would yield.

Further, the topic that everyone but you is discussing is rampage "school shooter". You can rattle off the list and will find nothing but mentally ill. The clinical definition and your anecdotal study is meaningless for that discussion.

 

[DrH. Lecter]

I'm not interested in some bs clinical analysis. Anyone who thinks killing a bunch of people before killing themselves or suiciding by cop absolutely has something wrong with their head. Those are not the actions of someone in a sound state of mind.

Exactly. But the Wikipedia and Mother Jones sourced data speaks otherwise....LOL.

I was under the impression that Wikipedia was not to be used as a source. That in itself is crazy.....obviously not clinically....lol.

 

[CB3UK]

Exactly. But the Wikipedia and Mother Jones sourced data speaks otherwise....LOL.

I was under the impression that Wikipedia was not to be used as a source. That in itself is crazy.....obviously not clinically....lol.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that anyone who would perpetrate these disgusting acts has something wrong with their head.

 

[LOL_Man]

Conclusions. These results suggest that policies aimed at preventing mass shootings by focusing on serious mental illness, characterized by psychotic symptoms, may have limited impact.

------

Despite potential limitations, our study reflects several key strengths, including its large dataset, which we believe may now constitute the most comprehensive to date; the use of inferential statistics; inclusion of mass murderers who used means other than firearms, which is an area previously underexplored in the literature; examination of cases from around the globe from 1900 to 2019; and meticulous examination of psychiatric symptom history, wherever available. We believe that our findings may have important implications for a better understanding of what drives mass shootings and shaping policies aimed at preventing them.

Mental health has been shot down, folks. You're not going to take guns away, so what I am talking about is the best chance you have to get anything meaningful done that will actually move the numbers and shut these things down before they start. We have to change how these shooting are covered in the media. All else is spinning your wheels and playing politics.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that anyone who would perpetrate these disgusting acts has something wrong with their head.

Yes. How do we identify those problems as threats, because our society is filled with mentally ill people who will never physically harm another, even if they have suicidal ideations.

I don’t know if that is possible. People debilitated by their illness don’t often harm others and usually cannot plan such, let alone carry out, a horrific act. One would assume that the people are able to fool others, at least some of the time. In the most recent incident, the roommate seemed to know there was a problem. Yet, the roommate told the shooter’s mom and did not call 911, himself. Had the roommate called 911 with the concerns, it is likely people would have been saved.

This is true in other incidents, as well. Had people voiced their concerns, the person’s plan may have been discovered. 911 may be extreme for some people. Maybe we need a national hotline where people can call and talk with a professional about a concern they have to have the professional help the person assess the situation. And/or, maybe we can publish guidelines and PSA those on a regular basis. Remind people that if they have a concern, they should contact a professional or law enforcement.

 

[DrH. Lecter]

"Ideations." Word of the day.

 

[Hank Camacho]

Another mass shooting in Louisville last night. The nihilism it would take to indiscriminately fire a gun into a crowd of people enjoying a Saturday night is unbelievable. How could that ever even be a thought someone (inevitably a troubled young man) has as a solution to any problem?

LMPD: At least 2 dead, 4 others injured after shots fired into crowd of people at Chickasaw Park

LMPD's Homicide Unit is investigating.

www.wdrb.com

 

[Nightwish84]

We can just post links to recent mass shootings all day if we want. Like I said before, we've got an anger problem in this country and we've allowed ourselves to drown in guns to the point that literally anyone, at anytime, can get a gun with ease. At some point, we just said, "You know what? All these items that can and do immediate harm to anyone at anytime, let's produce millions of those and encourage millions of people without knowing their backgrounds to buy these items." It's just too late at this point and we accepted this as an "oh well, darn." long ago.

 

[Hank Camacho]

We could also work to fix the anger problem, since that is the antecedent cause.

 

[ACCat#23]

The sooner you all get onboard with me and understand the root cause isn't mental illness or guns, then the sooner something can be meaningfully done about this instead of useless drivel that focuses on symptoms instead of root causes.

Stop what creates the shooters.

Anger is what causes rampage shooters, not media attention.

Toxic environments (bullying, poor parenting, shitty home life, counselors not noticing the warning signs, not getting laid, etc etc) lead to humiliation, and humiliation leads to anger. Anger then leads to violence.

We have a huge anger problem in this country.

 

[DrH. Lecter]

Another mass shooting in Louisville last night. The nihilism it would take to indiscriminately fire a gun into a crowd of people enjoying a Saturday night is unbelievable. How could that ever even be a thought someone (inevitably a troubled young man) has as a solution to any problem?

LMPD: At least 2 dead, 4 others injured after shots fired into crowd of people at Chickasaw Park

LMPD's Homicide Unit is investigating.

www.wdrb.com

Being at Chickasaw Park I am guessing gang and drug related.

 

[LOL_Man]

LOL @ anger problem and all the other "education" and "counseling" based "solutions" proposed in this thread.

Pay any attention to the drug war? How's all your education, counseling, and bringing awareness to working out? Abject failure, that's how it is working out. Wasted resources making the problem worse.

Good people having guns are not the problem so why is everyone so insistent on taking them away from them?

Because it's good cheap political currency. You don't want to fix all these shootings, you want the political momentum that goes with beating people over the head for their support of gun rights.

Again, as long as we're locked in this cycle of pointless answers and cheap political grandstanding nothing is going to get fixed, but hey you went up 10% in the polls after the last shooting so it worked out well for your political aspirations so I'm sure you'll keep running with it.

People are copying each other. Where are they getting the idea from? It's being ADVERTISED to them with every new shooting. Wall to wall coverage of exactly what it is they seek to accomplish when they lash out anew.

 

[ACCat#23]

The media may play a role but it's not the singular solution. I don't know the exact solution but it will require change on many levels and fronts, because what we currently do isn't cutting the cheese.

 

[Nightwish84]

How 'bout we stop the "taking guns away from good guys" argument because hardly anyone actually says that and it tries to turn responsible gun owners into victims of something that isn't even going to happen. The problem doesn't lie with "the good guys" (whatever that means, since saying "the good guys" is a blanket statement. We don't know who "the good guys" are. There are men who may be responsible gun owners but beat the shit out of their kids. Other men who act normal in their real lives but get on social media and wish cancer on strangers they disagree with). This isn't a 1950s western with "good guys" vs. "bad guys." Society flooded "the market", i.e. the country with guns and now we wonder why people who shouldn't have them have them.

The media isn't the problem either. I'm sorry, but if a mass shooting occurs, whether in a school, a church, a party, a theater, a store, or anywhere else, it's going to be covered. The media ignoring it isn't the magic solution. Young guys aren't watching CNN, FOX, or MSNBC and older men who may commit these crimes as well more than likely spend more time on social media than watching cable news. I mean, is laying the blame on Anderson Cooper for showing up during a tragedy to talk about the victims make sense?

 

[TCurtis75]

LOL @ anger problem and all the other "education" and "counseling" based "solutions" proposed in this thread.

Pay any attention to the drug war? How's all your education, counseling, and bringing awareness to working out? Abject failure, that's how it is working out. Wasted resources making the problem worse.

Good people having guns are not the problem so why is everyone so insistent on taking them away from them?

Because it's good cheap political currency. You don't want to fix all these shootings, you want the political momentum that goes with beating people over the head for their support of gun rights.

Again, as long as we're locked in this cycle of pointless answers and cheap political grandstanding nothing is going to get fixed, but hey you went up 10% in the polls after the last shooting so it worked out well for your political aspirations so I'm sure you'll keep running with it.

People are copying each other. Where are they getting the idea from? It's being ADVERTISED to them with every new shooting. Wall to wall coverage of exactly what it is they seek to accomplish when they lash out anew.

There are a bunch of arrogant no it all SOBs on here (myself included) but you take the cake with this “the media is the sole problem” position. Give it a rest already. We know that’s your argument. No one agrees with and you aren’t changing any minds.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Search the word “sole” in this thread and you will find it offered only in a strawman argument by one poster (even puts it in quotes as if someone actually posted those words), because no one has argued the “media is the sole problem.” That said, anyone who contends that intense incessant coverage of these events and of the shooters nationally does not play a role lacks awareness. The infamy of the act clearly contributes to the suicidal desires of the sick shooters.

 

[TCurtis75]

Search the word “sole” in this thread and you will find it offered only in a strawman argument by one poster (even puts it in quotes as if someone actually posted those words), because no one has argued the “media is the sole problem.” That said, anyone who contends that intense incessant coverage of these events and of the shooters nationally does not play a role lacks awareness. The infamy of the act clearly contributes to the suicidal desires of the sick shooters.

Isn’t this where I’m supposed to say that you have to be LOL Man and posting from 2 different accounts? That’s what you do anytime someone says anything about you. And the quotes weren’t for an actual quote in a post. It was to highlight what I consider to be the name of his argument. Go back and read his posts. He dismissed mental health or gun laws. He repeatedly says those won’t help. The only way to stop this is media coverage. He says it repeatedly. I also stand corrected. The most arrogant know it all SOB on this board by a wide margin is you.

Keep stalking me all you want. Says more about you than it does me.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

Isn’t this where I’m supposed to say that you have to be LOL Man and posting from 2 different accounts? That’s what you do anytime someone says anything about you. And the quotes weren’t for an actual quote in a post. It was to highlight what I consider to be the name of his argument. Go back and read his posts. He dismissed mental health or gun laws. He repeatedly says those won’t help. The only way to stop this is media coverage. He says it repeatedly. I also stand corrected. The most arrogant know it all SOB on this board by a wide margin is you.

Keep stalking me all you want. Says more about you than it does me.

You are the most sensitive defensive emotionally hyperbolic poster on this forum. Congrats, Matteo likes your post. 😝

 

[TCurtis75]

You are the most sensitive defensive emotionally hyperbolic poster on this forum. Congrats, Matteo likes your post. 😝

You are the biggest prick on this board. Congrats. You must have been voted most likely to stalk in HS.

 

[Dore95]

What's the latest (if there is any) on the warning signs that the bank shooter exhibited? I'm out of state and not getting all of the local news.

 

[TCurtis75]

What's the latest (if there is any) on the warning signs that the bank shooter exhibited? I'm out of state and not getting all of the local news.

Family said he had mental health struggles and was getting treatment for those. They never thought he’d do this. That was part of a statement by the family.

 

[MatteoV25]

You are the most sensitive defensive emotionally hyperbolic poster on this forum. Congrats, Matteo likes your post. 😝

You're not helping your "I'm not a stalker" argument by throwing my name into this.

 

[Tskware]

Family said he had mental health struggles and was getting treatment for those. They never thought he’d do this. That was part of a statement by the family.

Also stated they did not own any guns and had no idea how he obtained one.

I think Tutt's funeral was this weekend at SE Christian, I can only imagine attending a funeral for such a completely unnecessary death.

 

[Hank Camacho]

What's the latest (if there is any) on the warning signs that the bank shooter exhibited? I'm out of state and not getting all of the local news.

There's also some suggestion that he might have had CTE due to a history of concussions as a high school athlete.

 

[CatsFanGG24]

Look man, you can play media conspiracy hypotheticals. I know better than trying to change your mind. It’s a waste of time.

But back in reality, you have a human with severe mental issues who murdered people in cold blood. Not only that, he murdered pretty influential Democrats.

Now I’m sure it’s important to you to you to capitalize off the deaths of innocent people or maybe you’re just parroting Twitter, i reall don’t know. But you’re missing a pretty key piece of humanity here.

Shooter wished to highlight the ease of buying guns in KY and the rise in mental health crisis in America according to his manifesto.

There’s your media conspiracy, I suppose.
Keep burying your head instead of calling a spade a spade.

 

[bkingUK]

View embedded media

Shooter wished to highlight the ease of buying guns in KY and the rise in mental health crisis in America according to his manifesto.

There’s your media conspiracy, I suppose.
Keep burying your head instead of calling a spade a spade.

What point do you think you’re proving exactly? I find it ironic the guy talking media conspiracies is citing an article from a major newspaper on one of the biggest media platforms in the world all the while claiming a media cover up.

And what difference does this killer‘s ”manifesto” make to politics? It’d be like Ted Bundy blaming his killing spree on pornogeaphy. It’d be like Charlie Manson blaming his killing spree on rock and roll. The reasoning of a crazy person makes no difference.

Or are you suggesting that there’s causality between a 25 year old’s political views and their ability to murder innocent people? You can claim that. Of course you’d have to ignore that we’ve seen mass shooters in pretty much every demographic.

The difference between me and you here is that what I’m saying doesn’t change regardless of perceived political affiliation, where you see it as a propaganda win in your culture war.

 

[Nightwish84]

A mass shooting isn’t a “win” for either side but people turn themselves into political pretzels trying to keep their side clean, so it becomes “the other side’s problem.”

Social media and political fanaticism has made people cold. They’d rather laugh if something awful happens to a stranger they disagree with politically. They’d rather push all the shit wrong in society onto “the other side”, because politics is now a religion and your chosen religion can’t ever be wrong.

You see it here quite often and those posters guilty of it can’t see that they’re doing it because their new religion won’t allow them to be incorrect. It’s why many online think they have all the answers to everything when they’re just parroting a YouTube video, a meme, or a politician’s slogan or speech.

 

[CatsFanGG24]

What point do you think you’re proving exactly? I find it ironic the guy talking media conspiracies is citing an article from a major newspaper on one of the biggest media platforms in the world all the while claiming a media cover up.
Or are you suggesting that there’s causality between a 25 year old’s political views and their ability to murder innocent people? You can claim that. Of course you’d have to ignore that we’ve seen mass shooters in pretty much every demographic.

You brought up media conspiracy and tried to paint me a bad crazy guy when I labeled this a politically motivated mass shooting suicide by cop.

Manifesto proves that to be accurate.

Yes, I am suggesting that political and world views can be a motivating factor in mass violence. I am not claiming a singular affiliation is to blame for all.

I do believe it needs to be pointed out, no matter the views, that they played a role.

 

[Caveman Catfan]

View embedded media

Shooter wished to highlight the ease of buying guns in KY and the rise in mental health crisis in America according to his manifesto.

There’s your media conspiracy, I suppose.
Keep burying your head instead of calling a spade a spade.

This is not accurate:

“He also planned to end the slaughter by suicide — a wish that was granted when he was shot to death by police officers when he brandished his firearm.”

The police arrived and he had the vantage point on them, because the building’s first floor is up steps. He was trying to kill cops. Not, just brandishing.