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MARK STOOPS & COACHES

The question that remains which is a fair one is, what comes next?

But that's a fair question for every athletics department, every university, every business, and every organization. Not just for Stoops. By recognizing the question "what comes next?", one can understand that past may be prologue but organizations generally tend to improve if resources, leadership, and culture facilitate improvement.

UK is funding and supporting our football program in ways that should allow Stoops to continue to build his roster. UK's practice facilities are state of the art. The recruiting budget and assistant coach payroll are growing. Coach Coen came back to Lexington and a new WR coach is being hired.

As I said earlier, I think opinions on Stoops are frozen. Supporters recognize objective facts such as the eight-bowl streak, overall improvements in roster and football facilities, the two 10-win seasons, Will Levis' and Josh Allen's success, and the overall contrast between UK's football culture before versus during Stoops. Critics are a diversified group. Some are really more angry at Barnhart than Stoops, and nothing will ever win them over. Some are too young to appreciate the condition of our football program before Stoops got here. Some are upset with Stoops' contract ("class envy"). Some don't really and truly understand the intensity and raw difficulty of athletic competition at the SEC level. Some don't understand Stoops' program is closer, generally speaking, to the top than to the bottom. They don't get, or don't have the temperament for, the "three steps forward, two steps backward" principle that often characterizes organizational improvement in highly competitive cutthroat environments. ("UL does it; why can't we?") Some are just chronically negative people, revealing more about themselves than about Stoops or Barnhart. For whatever reasons, some believe UK owes them more entertainment than they feel they are receiving. Most aren't going to change their minds regardless of outcome. We see them here complaining during and after every win.
 
What would you consider a good season?

What would you consider worse than “really bad?”

1-2 wins under expectations in my opinion doesn’t constitute “really bad” is all I am saying.

This would mean I assume 9-3 is what you expected and 10-2 would be “good” and maybe 11-1 great?
I'm saying after a decade it's time to beat a quality team or join the MAC if that's how we are going to rack up wins. Three MAC wins, Vandy, Miss St, and a combination of a down Florida team/South Carolina/Missouri amounts to smoke and mirrors. 7-5 with those 7 being the wins doesn't really move the needle after a decade for me; it was great for a few years but when you look at things closely...
 
What exactly is "compete nationally"?

Because thinking Stoops, or any favorite you would hire, is going to transform the Kentucky program to the same level as Texas, Bama, Georgia, Ohio, Michigan, Clemson, Oklahoma, Oregon, FSU, LSU (to name a few) is very foolish.

A coach isn't gonna solve what holds this program back.
-too few elite talent produced locally
-poor historic sucess/name value
-poor financial support from fans

We've all got our opinions on Stoops, positive and negative. I trust the unbiased thoughts of national CFB guys like Bud Elliott, Andy Staples, Bruce Feldman. And they all say the same, Mark Stoops wins high above what a program like Kentucky with the limitations I listed has. And that whoever is the next UK coach is unlikely to have the same sucess we have enjoyed for 8 yrs.
Ole Miss, Arizona, Louisville, SMU, Liberty, NC State, Iowa, Oklahoma State, Tulane, James Madison all ranked in the top 25. You don't have to name the top programs historically to be relevant nationally.

And if you dont think there's more than opne guy that can beat 3 MAC schools, Vandy, Louisville, MSU, or South Caroilna, then there's no hope for this fanbase. UK is investing more money now than ever before in football; salaries, stadium reno, recruiting budget. That's something the other coaches didn't have before.
 
I'm saying after a decade it's time to beat a quality team or join the MAC if that's how we are going to rack up wins. Three MAC wins, Vandy, Miss St, and a combination of a down Florida team/South Carolina/Missouri amounts to smoke and mirrors. 7-5 with those 7 being the wins doesn't really move the needle after a decade for me; it was great for a few years but when you look at things closely...


I don’t imagine you will ever be satisfied with UK football and that’s ok.

The fact that a coach has been at Kentucky 10 years is incredible given the history. Also the fact that a 7-5 season is reason for a fan to want to get rid of a coach is wild when most coaches before him had a 7-5 ceiling.

The team that our previous best coach of my lifetime beat the number one team, national champion only finished 7-5.

You are foolish if you believe any SEC win outside of Vandy isn’t a quality win. No matter what the narrative is when you look at talent in the SEC it is not even close to anything else. Could give you the breakdown but obviously this conversation is pointless.

I mean the mighty ACC’s number 2 team was not much compared to one of Stoops’ worst teams. I wish instead of the MAC we could join the ACC or Big 12 and be a top 10 team every season.
 
I don’t imagine you will ever be satisfied with UK football and that’s ok.

The fact that a coach has been at Kentucky 10 years is incredible given the history. Also the fact that a 7-5 season is reason for a fan to want to get rid of a coach is wild when most coaches before him had a 7-5 ceiling.

The team that our previous best coach of my lifetime beat the number one team, national champion only finished 7-5.

You are foolish if you believe any SEC win outside of Vandy isn’t a quality win. No matter what the narrative is when you look at talent in the SEC it is not even close to anything else. Could give you the breakdown but obviously this conversation is pointless.

I mean the mighty ACC’s number 2 team was not much compared to one of Stoops’ worst teams. I wish instead of the MAC we could join the ACC or Big 12 and be a top 10 team every season.
You think Ball State, Eastern KY and Akron are "quality" wins? And I don't need your "breakdown", Knute.
 
The key is those beatdowns used to happen multiple times a year. Now they happen at most once a year.
We endured two beatdowns this year (Georgia and Bama), outscored 35-7 in another loss, laid an egg in an awful loss at USCjr, and struggled to beat FCS opponent EKU. 4 of those 5 were at home. Thats over 40% of the schedule we played like absolute dog crap, that’s not consistency as you eluded to in a part of the post I deleted. I didn’t expect to beat bama or Georgia this year but I did expect for us to show we belong on the same field and make it competitive for at least a half. Instead both teams beat us like we should have beaten EKU. I get teams won’t have it every single week but aside from our 2 ten win seasons, stoops teams don’t have it at least 3-5 games per year. Fortunately for our program a good portion of those weeks still result in a win due to the level of competition. Stoops does not in fact put a consistent product on the field and that is one of his problems.
 
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We endured two beatdowns this year (Georgia and Bama), outscored 35-7 in another loss, laid an egg in an awful loss at USCjr, and struggled to beat FCS opponent EKU. 4 of those 5 were at home. Thats over 40% of the schedule we played like absolute dog crap, that’s not consistency as you eluded to in a part of the post I deleted. I didn’t expect to beat bama or Georgia this year but I did expect for us to show we belong on the same field and make it competitive for at least a half. Instead both teams beat us like we should have beaten EKU. I get teams won’t have it every single week but aside from our 2 ten win seasons, stoops teams don’t have it at least 3-5 games per year. Fortunately for our program a good portion of those weeks still result in a win due to the level of competition. Stoops does not in fact put a consistent product on the field and that is one of his problems.
UGA and Bama are top ten teams for a reason. They will put beatdowns on teams like UK. The difference now is those beatdowns used to be expected by teams other than Bama and UGA. Those beatdowns used to come from SoCar, Ole Miss, Miss St, Auburn, Florida, UT…basically any team not named Vandy in the SEC. Now those beatdowns are rare. Yes UGA and Bama beat us down this year but those games came when both teams had something to prove. UGA was being questioned and it was a chance for them to make a statement. Bama was playing to prove they belonged in the playoff. They are top 10 teams for a reason. Prior to this year we played UGA as competitive as anyone.

No one beat us 35-7. We lost to SoCar 17-14. That was hardly as bad as you make it out to be. In fact, I believe they were favored that game. Missouri is the only game that really should possibly make you upset and that’s only because we had a 14 point lead in the first quarter but they finished the season ranked in the top 10 so that wasn’t really a horrible loss either. They were much better than expected.

Your negative slant is having you make the results seem much worse than they actually were. Most people thought that this year would be 8-4 or maybe 9-3 at best. We finished 7-5 which isn’t that far off from those predictions. But please by all means continue with your ridiculous assertion that UK football isn’t improving.
 
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UGA and Bama are top ten teams for a reason. They will put beatdowns on teams like UK. The difference now is those beatdowns used to be expected by teams other than Bama and UGA. Those beatdowns used to come from SoCar, Ole Miss, Miss St, Auburn, Florida, UT…basically any team not named Vandy in the SEC. Now those beatdowns are rare. Yes UGA and Bama beat us down this year but those games came when both teams had something to prove. UGA was being questioned and it was a chance for them to make a statement. Bama was playing to prove they belonged in the playoff. They are top 10 teams for a reason. Prior to this year we played UGA as competitive as anyone.

No one beat us 35-7. We lost to SoCar 17-14. That was hardly as bad as you make it out to be. In fact, I believe they were favored that game. Missouri is the only game that really should possibly make you upset and that’s only because we had a 14 point lead in the first quarter but they finished the season ranked in the top 10 so that wasn’t really a horrible loss either. They were much better than expected.

Your negative slant is having you make the results seem much worse than they actually were. Most people thought that this year would be 8-4 or maybe 9-3 at best. We finished 7-5 which isn’t that far off from those predictions. But please by all means continue with your ridiculous assertion that UK football isn’t improving.
I didn’t say we lost 35-7, rather outscored 35-7 which is what Missouri did to us. You think pointing out losing 17-14 at South Carolina wasn’t as bad as I’m making out to be? They sucked this year, we should not have lost at all. And maybe bama and Georgia did have something to prove but so did we and only one team got their way in each game. Sure wasn’t us. Loved how you avoided the EKU game all together as there really isn’t an excuse for that abomination of a game. You assert my ridiculousness in saying how bad we played but take the opposite side of the coin in trying to justify we really didn’t play bad at all, the other teams were just better than us. So Missouri can be a top 10 team without paying their head coach a top 10 salary but we should continue paying out coach a top 10 salary and accept that we can never be a top 10 team. Now who sounds ridiculous?
 
I didn’t say we lost 35-7, rather outscored 35-7 which is what Missouri did to us. You think pointing out losing 17-14 at South Carolina wasn’t as bad as I’m making out to be? They sucked this year, we should not have lost at all. And maybe bama and Georgia did have something to prove but so did we and only one team got their way in each game. Sure wasn’t us. Loved how you avoided the EKU game all together as there really isn’t an excuse for that abomination of a game. You assert my ridiculousness in saying how bad we played but take the opposite side of the coin in trying to justify we really didn’t play bad at all, the other teams were just better than us. So Missouri can be a top 10 team without paying their head coach a top 10 salary but we should continue paying out coach a top 10 salary and accept that we can never be a top 10 team. Now who sounds ridiculous?
They got their way because they are top 10 teams. When a top 10 team comes to play and is focused, you can get beatdown even if you play your best. SoCar was favored to beat us. When that happens, a loss isn't necessarily bad. The EKU game was the second game of the season with a new QB, a new OC, and additional players playing meaningful minutes for the first time together. Mizzou caught lightning in a bottle this year and over achieved to beat all expectations kind of like we did the Josh Allen year. A year like that happens. The difference is after that Josh Allen year, Stoops has shown that wasn't a fluke as they continually put competitive teams on the field that have shown they are better than most teams in UK history. Stoops got his raise because he showed that his results weren't just that one year. He has shown success in multiple years in a row. Drinkwitz has done it one year. Let's see if he is able to have the sustained success Stoops has had. If he does, I bet he gets a raise that increases his salary in the range of Stoops. If he doesn't have the sustained success, he is probably making what he should be making.

Everyone keeps saying the salary is too high for the results Stoops gets. Results are only one part of the equation. A bigger part is what is the value the coach brings to the program. Stoops brings more value to the program than any coach previously because he wins at a rate higher than any coach previously. He recruits better than any coach previously. He has shown more loyalty than any coach previously. Plus you have to pay a rate that will make people want to come and want to stay. If we don't pay competitively, than any coach that does well will just leave the first chance he can and we will have a revolving door of coaches. That isn't how you build program stability or success and is a sure fire way to guarantee we will never be a top 10 team even occasionally. You want to know who is ridiculous now? It is still you.
 
They got their way because they are top 10 teams. When a top 10 team comes to play and is focused, you can get beatdown even if you play your best. SoCar was favored to beat us. When that happens, a loss isn't necessarily bad. The EKU game was the second game of the season with a new QB, a new OC, and additional players playing meaningful minutes for the first time together. Mizzou caught lightning in a bottle this year and over achieved to beat all expectations kind of like we did the Josh Allen year. A year like that happens. The difference is after that Josh Allen year, Stoops has shown that wasn't a fluke as they continually put competitive teams on the field that have shown they are better than most teams in UK history. Stoops got his raise because he showed that his results weren't just that one year. He has shown success in multiple years in a row. Drinkwitz has done it one year. Let's see if he is able to have the sustained success Stoops has had. If he does, I bet he gets a raise that increases his salary in the range of Stoops. If he doesn't have the sustained success, he is probably making what he should be making.

Everyone keeps saying the salary is too high for the results Stoops gets. Results are only one part of the equation. A bigger part is what is the value the coach brings to the program. Stoops brings more value to the program than any coach previously because he wins at a rate higher than any coach previously. He recruits better than any coach previously. He has shown more loyalty than any coach previously. Plus you have to pay a rate that will make people want to come and want to stay. If we don't pay competitively, than any coach that does well will just leave the first chance he can and we will have a revolving door of coaches. That isn't how you build program stability or success and is a sure fire way to guarantee we will never be a top 10 team even occasionally. You want to know who is ridiculous now? It is still you.
Hardly!!!! You have done nothing but excuse every possible angle you could. Bama had something to prove to the playoff committee? But they didn’t at Auburn after our game? Or what about at home to Arkansas? Nothing to prove then either? Don’t bother answering as you will just have lame ass excuses there too. You are a stoops apologist, hell stoops couldn’t excuse his way along any better than you have for him. Stoops has been here 11 years and brought us 3 seasons with more than 7 wins and 4 seasons finishing below .500. Who cares if he’s bringing talent in if he can’t do anything with it. I don’t care how many ways you try and spin this you are ridiculous one.
 
Hardly!!!! You have done nothing but excuse every possible angle you could. Bama had something to prove to the playoff committee? But they didn’t at Auburn after our game? Or what about at home to Arkansas? Nothing to prove then either? Don’t bother answering as you will just have lame ass excuses there too. You are a stoops apologist, hell stoops couldn’t excuse his way along any better than you have for him. Stoops has been here 11 years and brought us 3 seasons with more than 7 wins and 4 seasons finishing below .500. Who cares if he’s bringing talent in if he can’t do anything with it. I don’t care how many ways you try and spin this you are ridiculous one.
Now do the rest of the coaches in UK history to see how many seasons they finished below .500. Now mention how we have 4 ten win seasons in history and Stoops has 2 of them. I’m not a Stoops apologist. I just understand the significant impact he has had on UK football while you have proven that you don’t. I stand corrected. You aren’t ridiculous. You are a damn fool and that’s is so much worse.
 
Now do the rest of the coaches in UK history to see how many seasons they finished below .500. Now mention how we have 4 ten win seasons in history and Stoops has 2 of them. I’m not a Stoops apologist. I just understand the significant impact he has had on UK football while you have proven that you don’t. I stand corrected. You aren’t ridiculous. You are a damn fool and that’s is so much worse.
12 game schedule has been a part of college football since 2006 so that’s 17 years. Stoops has been here 11. That 12th game that was added was a free W for P5 schools. Only brooks and joker got the same luxury that stoops has enjoyed in that regard. Brooks only had it from 2006-2009 and went 30-22 during that timeframe? Thats a .576 win percentage. For stoops I will even throw out his first two years and the remaining 9 gives him a 66-46 record or a .589 win percentage. You really want to try and tell me how that is so much better? Brooks didn’t recruit the talent that stoops does either, he was just that much of a better coach and coached against a stronger SEC. Sorry but I’m not comparing apples to oranges and going back further. Just add a W to each coaches resume if you like for each year they coached to get a comparable win % to your hero stoops. And not to take away from the 10 win seasons stoops had as it was an accomplishment but he did need a 13th game only two other coaches (brooks and joker) ever had the opportunity to play in. Sorry again but apples to oranges. Feeling foolish yet?
 
12 game schedule has been a part of college football since 2006 so that’s 17 years. Stoops has been here 11. That 12th game that was added was a free W for P5 schools. Only brooks and joker got the same luxury that stoops has enjoyed in that regard. Brooks only had it from 2006-2009 and went 30-22 during that timeframe? Thats a .576 win percentage. For stoops I will even throw out his first two years and the remaining 9 gives him a 66-46 record or a .589 win percentage. You really want to try and tell me how that is so much better? Brooks didn’t recruit the talent that stoops does either, he was just that much of a better coach and coached against a stronger SEC. Sorry but I’m not comparing apples to oranges and going back further. Just add a W to each coaches resume if you like for each year they coached to get a comparable win % to your hero stoops. And not to take away from the 10 win seasons stoops had as it was an accomplishment but he did need a 13th game only two other coaches (brooks and joker) ever had the opportunity to play in. Sorry again but apples to oranges. Feeling foolish yet?


You seem to be saying “your hero stoops” as if it is an insult but honestly as a Uk Football fan unless you are old enough to have lived in the BEAR years who else would you consider your coaching hero?

The point about the extra game does make sense but what about the 60’s-90’s? Some seasons they only played 6 SEC games, other 7. If Stoops had the benefit of 5 or 6 non-conference games I imagine his record would be much better. How come none of the coaches back then were able to accomplish what stoops has done with less SEC games?

This board is laughable at times it seems, some people think stoops can do no wrong and that UK would be 2-10 again without him and others believe they would be in the playoffs if he wasn’t holding the program back. Both takes are delusional yet the extreme nature of them seem to be emphasized in this topic.

Truth is somewhere in between, but there is no way you can be a lifelong UK football fan and not appreciate and understand that Stoops has taken the program to heights most thought were impossible. Heck we are literally all accepting of the fact that back-to-back 7-5 seasons are a disappointment and not the ceiling!
 
You seem to be saying “your hero stoops” as if it is an insult but honestly as a Uk Football fan unless you are old enough to have lived in the BEAR years who else would you consider your coaching hero?

The point about the extra game does make sense but what about the 60’s-90’s? Some seasons they only played 6 SEC games, other 7. If Stoops had the benefit of 5 or 6 non-conference games I imagine his record would be much better. How come none of the coaches back then were able to accomplish what stoops has done with less SEC games?

This board is laughable at times it seems, some people think stoops can do no wrong and that UK would be 2-10 again without him and others believe they would be in the playoffs if he wasn’t holding the program back. Both takes are delusional yet the extreme nature of them seem to be emphasized in this topic.

Truth is somewhere in between, but there is no way you can be a lifelong UK football fan and not appreciate and understand that Stoops has taken the program to heights most thought were impossible. Heck we are literally all accepting of the fact that back-to-back 7-5 seasons are a disappointment and not the ceiling!
Hero stoops is not an insult. The poster I responded too has taken every conceivable angle to diminish every negative thing and elevate every positive thing he can regarding stoops. I’m 55 years old so I’ve seen plenty of bad football played at UK. I have agreed that stoops has increased our talent level and our on field competitiveness to at least some degree. Due to his conservative style of coaching however I don’t think he gets the most out of his rosters. Our program is respectable but it was also respectable under Brooks especially his last 4 years. Not sure what heights that stoops has achieved that most were thought impossible? We haven’t even gone to a NY6 bowl game with him here and it’s been 11 years. Some act like he’s just getting started on building this thing but he’s the 2nd longest tenured coach in the SEC right now behind Saban. I know UK football has its challenges that every coach will face but stoops has hit his ceiling here and is heading back toward the floor. He’s not going 2-10 but 5-7 and 6-6 are realistic possibilities each season moving forward with 7-5 best case scenario. Sorry, regardless where we have been, that’s just not going to get me excited moving forward and probably not a good portion of the rest of the fanbase either. If stoops were to change his coaching philosophy then the outlook for UK’s future could be brighter but stoops ain’t changing. He is who he is.
 
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12 game schedule has been a part of college football since 2006 so that’s 17 years. Stoops has been here 11. That 12th game that was added was a free W for P5 schools. Only brooks and joker got the same luxury that stoops has enjoyed in that regard. Brooks only had it from 2006-2009 and went 30-22 during that timeframe? Thats a .576 win percentage. For stoops I will even throw out his first two years and the remaining 9 gives him a 66-46 record or a .589 win percentage. You really want to try and tell me how that is so much better? Brooks didn’t recruit the talent that stoops does either, he was just that much of a better coach and coached against a stronger SEC. Sorry but I’m not comparing apples to oranges and going back further. Just add a W to each coaches resume if you like for each year they coached to get a comparable win % to your hero stoops. And not to take away from the 10 win seasons stoops had as it was an accomplishment but he did need a 13th game only two other coaches (brooks and joker) ever had the opportunity to play in. Sorry again but apples to oranges. Feeling foolish yet?
Good lord. It just isn’t worth trying to explain it to you any further. As far as feeling foolish, you have that on lock down. You should probably go cheer for Bama or UGA. They seem to be the only results you will be happy with in that narrow minded view you have with those unattainable expectations.
 
Stoops has gotten well on cupcakes, UL, and the occasional W against a down SEC foe. Consistent loser in the SEC,
Stoops has more wins over Top 20 ranked teams than the program accumulated in the 36 years prior to his arrival, and two more ranked wins than Frank Beamer had in his first 11 seasons (and 6 more
Wins, total).

“Consistent loser in the SEC . . .?”

He has had two 5-3 seasons in the SEC and two 4-4 seasons.

WE HAD NOT HAD A WINNING SEASON IN THE SEC FOR 41 SEASONS PRIOR TO 2018/19.
 
With wins against a Florida #9 team that finished unranked and was highly overrated and a U of L team which let's face it was definitely overrated ( per all the "acc sucks" comments on here and comments by stoops himself)
Hmmm?

How ‘bout the road win over UF in 2018, a UF team that beat Michigan in a NYD6 Bowl, and finished in the Top 10?
 
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Good lord. It just isn’t worth trying to explain it to you any further. As far as feeling foolish, you have that on lock down. You should probably go cheer for Bama or UGA. They seem to be the only results you will be happy with in that narrow minded view you have with those unattainable expectations.
Tell me you don’t have a rebuttal without telling me you don’t have a rebuttal. If expecting a team to show up and look like a competent well coached football team week in and week out, sans an outlier here and there, are unattainable expectations then I guess you got me there. As previously noted that was damn near half our season this year with 5 of 12 games we didn’t get the teams best effort. Well I guess we did against Bama and Georgia but we just had bad timing on the schedule and played both of those teams when they had something to prove and was just ready to take it out on someone, just happened to be us. Hope Clemson doesn’t have something to prove, would be nice to end the season on a high note.
 
12 game schedule has been a part of college football since 2006 so that’s 17 years. Stoops has been here 11. That 12th game that was added was a free W for P5 schools. Only brooks and joker got the same luxury that stoops has enjoyed in that regard. Brooks only had it from 2006-2009 and went 30-22 during that timeframe? Thats a .576 win percentage. For stoops I will even throw out his first two years and the remaining 9 gives him a 66-46 record or a .589 win percentage. You really want to try and tell me how that is so much better? Brooks didn’t recruit the talent that stoops does either, he was just that much of a better coach and coached against a stronger SEC. Sorry but I’m not comparing apples to oranges and going back further. Just add a W to each coaches resume if you like for each year they coached to get a comparable win % to your hero stoops. And not to take away from the 10 win seasons stoops had as it was an accomplishment but he did need a 13th game only two other coaches (brooks and joker) ever had the opportunity to play in. Sorry again but apples to oranges. Feeling foolish yet?
The 12 game argument is not a very good one. For years we played an 11 game schedule and only 6 SEC games. We had 5 non-conference games under our control. That's a larger portion of our schedule under our control than we have now. We still failed to produce winning records. And no, we didn't play very good power 5 teams most of those years. Curci played several during the 70s but that quickly went away.
 
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Stoops has gotten well on cupcakes, UL, and the occasional W against a down SEC foe. Consistent loser in the SEC, and his record against the better teams and/or teams with winning records is awful. His teams always lack discipline, on and off the field.
The fact on stoops is 1/3 of his wins are vs Mac and another 1/3 are against specific coaches…Vandy teams not coached by James Franklin, satterfield, muschamp and odom. Against all other coaches, even other coaches at those same schools, he’s at a 25% winning clip. My concern is that muschamp odom and satterfield are no longer on our schedule. Although we do still have the Mac games.
 
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Hero stoops is not an insult. The poster I responded too has taken every conceivable angle to diminish every negative thing and elevate every positive thing he can regarding stoops. I’m 55 years old so I’ve seen plenty of bad football played at UK. I have agreed that stoops has increased our talent level and our on field competitiveness to at least some degree. Due to his conservative style of coaching however I don’t think he gets the most out of his rosters. Our program is respectable but it was also respectable under Brooks especially his last 4 years. Not sure what heights that stoops has achieved that most were thought impossible? We haven’t even gone to a NY6 bowl game with him here and it’s been 11 years. Some act like he’s just getting started on building this thing but he’s the 2nd longest tenured coach in the SEC right now behind Saban. I know UK football has its challenges that every coach will face but stoops has hit his ceiling here and is heading back toward the floor. He’s not going 2-10 but 5-7 and 6-6 are realistic possibilities each season moving forward with 7-5 best case scenario. Sorry, regardless where we have been, that’s just not going to get me excited moving forward and probably not a good portion of the rest of the fanbase either. If stoops were to change his coaching philosophy then the outlook for UK’s future could be brighter but stoops ain’t changing. He is who he is.


I completely disagree. Heights never before would be two 10 win seasons in a four year span, and as I stated 7-5 being the disappointing season and not the ceiling. Brooks was great, when he left the wheels completely fell off, so hopefully stoops had built the program better or the next guy doesn’t drop the ball.

Stoops went and got Liam Coen, UK won 10 games passing the ball more, then signed the worst offensive coordinator of our lifetime and it backfired, but he was an NFL guy.

Went and got Coen back from the NFL and the number 1-2 portal quarterback…. Leary severely underperformed that ranking.

Uk goes out and gets a former 5 star quarterback, 4 star wide receiver, 1000 yard receiver from north Texas and a great running back.

Stoops has absolutely changed in the last few years as far as offense is concerned. It cost him some wins no doubt, but he is trying. So to say he will not change I do not understand.

Seems like the changes are not helping, however with the weapons available next season we will see!

The big change he needs and I’m sure he is aware is the pace of play. If we try to emphasize passing more and modern college football it doesn’t seem to help when we run a pro-style offense and limit the possessions unless we are super efficient.

Who knows what will happen, but if stoops had hit his ceiling than I don’t care if he coaches 20 more years and gives us another 20 years of consecutive bowl games and 3-5 10 win seasons in that span.
 
Tell me you don’t have a rebuttal without telling me you don’t have a rebuttal. If expecting a team to show up and look like a competent well coached football team week in and week out, sans an outlier here and there, are unattainable expectations then I guess you got me there. As previously noted that was damn near half our season this year with 5 of 12 games we didn’t get the teams best effort. Well I guess we did against Bama and Georgia but we just had bad timing on the schedule and played both of those teams when they had something to prove and was just ready to take it out on someone, just happened to be us. Hope Clemson doesn’t have something to prove, would be nice to end the season on a high note.
That’s a completely different argument than you have been making this entire thread. This post I may actually agree with for the most part. The part where you are wrong and have been making this entire thread is stoops is being paid top 10 money and we aren’t getting top 10 results. As I said before, results are only one metric when determining a coaches salary. We will never be a top 10 team year in and year out regardless of who the coach is. That argument and point is completely different. Although I think you exaggerate how many games we didn’t look like a “competent well coached” team. We didn’t against UGA but I think they may have had more to do with them than us. We didn’t the first quarter against Bama but after that we played them fairly even. I know your considering the EKU game and they didn’t look good but I think that was more of a product of second game of the year with new players, new OC, and new system. Missouri was just better than us. SoCar we lost by 3 when they were favored. UT was a one possession game at the end. So I think you exaggerate the times we looked like that to fit your agenda.
 
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That’s a completely different argument than you have been making this entire thread. This post I may actually agree with for the most part. The part where you are wrong and have been making this entire thread is stoops is being paid top 10 money and we aren’t getting top 10 results. As I said before, results are only one metric when determining a coaches salary. We will never be a top 10 team year in and year out regardless of who the coach is. That argument and point is completely different. Although I think you exaggerate how many games we didn’t look like a “competent well coached” team. We didn’t against UGA but I think they may have had more to do with them than us. We didn’t the first quarter against Bama but after that we played them fairly even. I know your considering the EKU game and they didn’t look good but I think that was more of a product of second game of the year with new players, new OC, and new system. Missouri was just better than us. SoCar we lost by 3 when they were favored. UT was a one possession game at the end. So I think you exaggerate the times we looked like that to fit your agenda.
My argument has been pretty consistent and I don’t think I have ever stated we should be a top 10 team since we are paying top 10 money. I’d settle for being a top 25 program the majority of the time. Never threw UT game in the hat of games I thought we played poorly but we didn’t play well enough to win obviously. Our best most complete game of the year was Florida. That was this teams potential and While not expecting an A effort like that every single week we should at least come close to that and I don’t think we did. Stoops needs to change philosophy on both offense and defense for this program to move forward or even stay the course IMO or we are going to be sliding backwards hoping to win the UofL game every year to become bowl eligible.
 
My argument has been pretty consistent and I don’t think I have ever stated we should be a top 10 team since we are paying top 10 money. I’d settle for being a top 25 program the majority of the time. Never threw UT game in the hat of games I thought we played poorly but we didn’t play well enough to win obviously. Our best most complete game of the year was Florida. That was this teams potential and While not expecting an A effort like that every single week we should at least come close to that and I don’t think we did. Stoops needs to change philosophy on both offense and defense for this program to move forward or even stay the course IMO or we are going to be sliding backwards hoping to win the UofL game every year to become bowl eligible.
Did you not say “we should continue paying out coach a top 10 salary and accept that we can never be a top 10 team. Now who sounds ridiculous?” You have repeatedly said things close to that in this thread and have focused solely on wins until your last post when you said it was about looking like a competent football team? That’s completely different argument.
 
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Did you not say “we should continue paying out coach a top 10 salary and accept that we can never be a top 10 team. Now who sounds ridiculous?” You have repeatedly said things close to that in this thread and have focused solely on wins until your last post when you said it was about looking like a competent football team? That’s completely different argument.
Do you work for the fake news media? You took a portion of a sentence i responded to you with and quoted me without context. Also that came well after our discussion began. One of the first comments I made to you was
For top 10 money we should at least be a consistent top 25 team and not have to ever be nervous in games like EKU. Too many games our team looks completely unprepared, that’s not cloudy judgement but facts.
So Missouri can be a top 10 team without paying their head coach a top 10 salary but we should continue paying out coach a top 10 salary and accept that we can never be a top 10 team. Now who sounds ridiculous?

And above is my entire quote you pulled from to try and make me look ridiculous but all you did was turn the mirror around to yourself. And to reiterate, this statement was made well into our discussion and not at the beginning as you tried to elude too. Again I have been very consistent throughout this dialogue as I just demonstrated.
 
Do you work for the fake news media? You took a portion of a sentence i responded to you with and quoted me without context. Also that came well after our discussion began. One of the first comments I made to you was



And above is my entire quote you pulled from to try and make me look ridiculous but all you did was turn the mirror around to yourself. And to reiterate, this statement was made well into our discussion and not at the beginning as you tried to elude too. Again I have been very consistent throughout this dialogue as I just demonstrated.
Except you haven’t been and I never implied that the Missouri statement came at the beginning let alone said it. You came up with that on your own. What I said was that for the entire discussion you have been focused on wins and losses and now you suddenly change to competent football team. That is anything but consistent. The first part of your quote doesn’t change anything with the intent of your sentence. You at best implied you think that Stoops should be fielding top 10 teams if he’s being paid top 10 money. I addressed the Mizzou portion before in that they caught lightning in a bottle this year and that Drinkwitz hasn’t shown the long term extended success that Stoops has shown. If and when he does, he will probably be paid in the ballpark of what Stoops is.

As far as consistently being in the top 25, other than the Covid year (and we may have been then too at some point), we have been ranked in the top 25 every season since at least 2018 and maybe even before then. If that was truly your objective, you wouldn’t be on here arguing that Stoops has underperformed. You would realize he hasn’t and you would acknowledge the inaccuracies in your position. Instead you act like Stoops is the second coming of Bill Curry when that is simply incorrect.
 
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Except you haven’t been and I never implied that the Missouri statement came at the beginning let alone said it. You came up with that on your own. What I said was that for the entire discussion you have been focused on wins and losses and now you suddenly change to competent football team. That is anything but consistent. The first part of your quote doesn’t change anything with the intent of your sentence. You at best implied you think that Stoops should be fielding top 10 teams if he’s being paid top 10 money. I addressed the Mizzou portion before in that they caught lightning in a bottle this year and that Drinkwitz hasn’t shown the long term extended success that Stoops has shown. If and when he does, he will probably be paid in the ballpark of what Stoops is.

As far as consistently being in the top 25, other than the Covid year (and we may have been then too at some point), we have been ranked in the top 25 every season since at least 2018 and maybe even before then. If that was truly your objective, you wouldn’t be on here arguing that Stoops has underperformed. You would realize he hasn’t and you would acknowledge the inaccuracies in your position. Instead you act like Stoops is the second coming of Bill Curry when that is simply incorrect.
What a bunch of horseshit. You clearly painted a picture that I have spent the entire thread complaining because we aren’t a top 10 team and have made one reference to that point out of, what 8,9 or 10 responses to you and that was lead by the Missouri dialogue. Just admit the fact you got sidetracked with all this back and forth and really have no clue where I started, rather your own picture you wanted to paint me in. Oh and your top 25 BS we have finished ranked in the top 25 exactly 2 times total in stoops 11 years. Yeah I know you meant we’re ranked in the top 25 at one point during the season just like we were this year but we sure didn’t stay there did we? I’ll give stoops more credit when we start beating the EKU’s of the world just like Bama and Georgia do us (you know, when they have something to prove).
 
What a bunch of horseshit. You clearly painted a picture that I have spent the entire thread complaining because we aren’t a top 10 team and have made one reference to that point out of, what 8,9 or 10 responses to you and that was lead by the Missouri dialogue. Just admit the fact you got sidetracked with all this back and forth and really have no clue where I started, rather your own picture you wanted to paint me in. Oh and your top 25 BS we have finished ranked in the top 25 exactly 2 times total in stoops 11 years. Yeah I know you meant we’re ranked in the top 25 at one point during the season just like we were this year but we sure didn’t stay there did we? I’ll give stoops more credit when we start beating the EKU’s of the world just like Bama and Georgia do us (you know, when they have something to prove).
I didn’t get sidetracked at all. I said you have argued repeatedly in this thread that wins and losses were your basis for the complaints about Stoops because they were. Suddenly, it switched to looking like a competent football team. You never said finished ranked in the top 25 was the measuring stick. You said when we are consistently a top 25 team which means when we consistently get ranked in the top 25 which we have been doing for many years in a row under Mark Stoops. Also, we beat EKU by 11 and scored 28 points. The spread was only 13.5 so we beat them close to what we should have in the second game of the year with a new QB, new OC, and multiple new players. You keep acting like we beat them 6-3. Keep moving the goal posts and changing. You are right. There is a lot of horseshit on hear but it isn’t coming from me.
 
I didn’t get sidetracked at all. I said you have argued repeatedly in this thread that wins and losses were your basis for the complaints about Stoops because they were. Suddenly, it switched to looking like a competent football team. You never said finished ranked in the top 25 was the measuring stick. You said when we are consistently a top 25 team which means when we consistently get ranked in the top 25 which we have been doing for many years in a row under Mark Stoops. Also, we beat EKU by 11 and scored 28 points. The spread was only 13.5 so we beat them close to what we should have in the second game of the year with a new QB, new OC, and multiple new players. You keep acting like we beat them 6-3. Keep moving the goal posts and changing. You are right. There is a lot of horseshit on hear but it isn’t coming from me.
Don’t know why I have to spell this out but being a competent looking football team translates to more wins and less losses. And you do realize when I say a competent looking football team that’s a reflection on coaching don’t you? You agree we aren’t a competent looking football team due to substandard coaching and want to continue this debate arguing for stoops? Every season we have broke into the top 25 has been based on the easy part of our schedule just as this year was the case. Being a top 25 team means staying ranked in the top 25 not making a cameo appearance. By your definition Louisville is a top 10 football school, now see what you have done. Geez!!!!!
 
Don’t know why I have to spell this out but being a competent looking football team translates to more wins and less losses. And you do realize when I say a competent looking football team that’s a reflection on coaching don’t you? You agree we aren’t a competent looking football team due to substandard coaching and want to continue this debate arguing for stoops? Every season we have broke into the top 25 has been based on the easy part of our schedule just as this year was the case. Being a top 25 team means staying ranked in the top 25 not making a cameo appearance. By your definition Louisville is a top 10 football school, now see what you have done. Geez!!!!!
nathan fillion castle GIF


This GIF says all I have to say to you. You can't see the forest for the trees but you do you. No further discussion is necessary since you keep moving your goal posts. Wallow in misery all you want. The rest of us will continue to be thankful for what Stoops has done to bring this program to heights it has never seen before.
 
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nathan fillion castle GIF


This GIF says all I have to say to you. You can't see the forest for the trees but you do you. No further discussion is necessary since you keep moving your goal posts. Wallow in misery all you want. The rest of us will continue to be thankful for what Stoops has done to bring this program to heights it has never seen before.
No goal posts have been moved. You just have blurry vision. One man’s garbage is another man’s treasure, that’s the beauty of life.
 
No goal posts have been moved. You just have blurry vision. One man’s garbage is another man’s treasure, that’s the beauty of life.
Whatever you have to tell yourself to feel confident in your words. Like I said, you do you.
 
I didn’t get sidetracked at all. I said you have argued repeatedly in this thread that wins and losses were your basis for the complaints about Stoops because they were. Suddenly, it switched to looking like a competent football team. You never said finished ranked in the top 25 was the measuring stick. You said when we are consistently a top 25 team which means when we consistently get ranked in the top 25 which we have been doing for many years in a row under Mark Stoops. Also, we beat EKU by 11 and scored 28 points. The spread was only 13.5 so we beat them close to what we should have in the second game of the year with a new QB, new OC, and multiple new players. You keep acting like we beat them 6-3. Keep moving the goal posts and changing. You are right. There is a lot of horseshit on hear but it isn’t coming from me.
You'd have a good point about the Eastern game, if only the spread really had been only 13.5. I have no idea where you found that.
 
You'd have a good point about the Eastern game, if only the spread really had been only 13.5. I have no idea where you found that.
I was trying to go off memory. I remember we covered all but the one game out of the first 4 or 5. I thought we only were a 13.5 point favorite for EKU but I freely admit I easily could be remembering wrong. I remember for sure that it wasn't a huge spread.
 
I was trying to go off memory. I remember we covered all but the one game out of the first 4 or 5. I thought we only were a 13.5 point favorite for EKU but I freely admit I easily could be remembering wrong. I remember for sure that it wasn't a huge spread.
We were favored by 35.5 (huge spread) Since you don’t seem to recall things very well or even follow along for that matter. With 12:00 to go in the game we were up by a score of 21-17 following an EKU TD.
 
We were favored by 35.5 (huge spread) Since you don’t seem to recall things very well or even follow along for that matter. With 12:00 to go in the game we were up by a score of 21-17 following an EKU TD.
Shouldn't you be arguing that Mark Stoops isn't the right coach because he wears sunglasses on the sideline? It falls in line with you moving your goal posts for your argument. You went from being ranked in the top 25 to top 10 to competent football team to we should be ranked in top 25 at the end of the season. I recall that perfectly fine. I freely admit I was wrong on the spread but my point still remains for the second game of the year. Your argument has changed more times than Zsa Zsa Gabor changed husbands. What are you going to change it to now?
 
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Shouldn't you be arguing that Mark Stoops isn't the right coach because he wears sunglasses on the sideline? It falls in line with you moving your goal posts for your argument. You went from being ranked in the top 25 to top 10 to competent football team to we should be ranked in top 25 at the end of the season. I recall that perfectly fine. I freely admit I was wrong on the spread but my point still remains for the second game of the year. Your argument has changed more times than Zsa Zsa Gabor changed husbands. What are you going to change it to now?
if goal post have moved, you moved them, not my doing. If we don’t end up the year in the top 25 we are not a top 25 team. Odd that I even have to say end up in top 25 when saying we should at least be a top 25 team. I should have just stopped trying to discuss things with you when you made excuses for the EKU game being as close as it was. Pretty much tells me all I need to know.
 
if goal post have moved, you moved them, not my doing. If we don’t end up the year in the top 25 we are not a top 25 team. Odd that I even have to say end up in top 25 when saying we should at least be a top 25 team. I should have just stopped trying to discuss things with you when you made excuses for the EKU game being as close as it was. Pretty much tells me all I need to know.
Schitts Creek Ok GIF by CBC
 
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