Livingston

[Wonky]

The fact there’s even a question as to whether he will be back next year shows how screwed up the culture of this program is anymore.

The kid is not on any draft boards. He steadily improved as the year went on. He plays for a HOF coach. Like… where are you going and why would you go there?

If he leaves then he came to UK for the wrong reasons. But so does every other kid anymore.

 

[Runnin'Ramel]

Not to mention he started and got a ton of minutes. If a guy like Livingston doesn't return as a sophomore, just shut it down next year. You HAVE to have guys like him blended with the incoming class. Have to.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

No one thinks he's leaving for the draft, only option is transferring which I could see happening given the class coming in.

 

[bluegoad72]

That's the issue with college basketball. Most of these guys are not ready yet jump at the chance because of the money or because they have families members, fiends, or handlers telling them things that just are not true. Some of these guys are not ready and in fact we're not even close to being as good as their rankings out of high school were. I like Livingston and he shouted great Improvement as the season went on and I want him to come back. At least with nil money now there is a chance to keep some guys from going simply because of that.

 

[Wonky]

No one thinks he's leaving for the draft, only option is transferring which I could see happening given the class coming in.

Wtf?? So he doesn’t want to compete?

Like I said… shit culture.

 

[JonathanW]

I think the "question whether CL is coming back" is mostly just some fans being cynical.
But I do understand why they are that way. And because of that, NOTHING is 100% or even close to it, so yeah he could not return. IMO I would put the odds at him returning at about 70%. 15% transfer, 15% go pro (play in G-league).

But he seems to like it at UK, and his teammates.
He played a good bit, a lot the final month.
And I really could see Cal making him the #1 option on offense next year, or at least top 3.

 

[MegaBlue05]

Wtf?? So he doesn’t want to compete?

Like I said… shit culture.

That culture isn’t just limited to UK now. A lot of highly recruited guys who didn’t play a lot as freshmen are hitting the portal these days. Why compete when you can go somewhere else and start and be option 1. That seems to be the thinking these days. Developing and waiting your turn to shine is a thing of the past.

 

[Sejonesy]

The fact there’s even a question as to whether he will be back next year shows how screwed up the culture of this program is anymore.

The kid is not on any draft boards. He steadily improved as the year went on. He plays for a HOF coach. Like… where are you going and why would you go there?

If he leaves then he came to UK for the wrong reasons. But so does every other kid anymore.

Not just a UK problem. There are some problems right now for sure for UK, but don’t really think this is one of them.

 

[BBNinSC]

Next year's team depends on a few players returning. Livingston could be a star next season

 

[shaudyshaud]

If he transfers then that’s not a Kentucky culture problem . That is more of a college basketball culture problem .

 

[W_Heisenberg]

Wtf?? So he doesn’t want to compete?

Like I said… shit culture.

I don't think it's a shit culture considering what Bryce Hopkins just went thru...he went from warming the bench to Big East POY candidate in less than a year...guys leave and get a chance to better showcase their abilities and hopefully get to the league faster, it's all about that.

 

[bookerfan66]

I don't think it's a shit culture considering what Bryce Hopkins just went thru...he went from warming the bench to Big East POY candidate in less than a year...guys leave and get a chance to better showcase their abilities and hopefully get to the league faster, it's all about that.

But's that's different because Hopkins didn't play at all.Livingston started every game.

 

[megablue]

That culture isn’t just limited to UK now. A lot of highly recruited guys who didn’t play a lot as freshmen are hitting the portal these days. Why compete when you can go somewhere else and start and be option 1. That seems to be the thinking these days. Developing and waiting your turn to shine is a thing of the past.

100%^^^ this … it is obvious, plus many simply like the drama, attention, cajoling, spotlight, coddling … all over again. It is not a KY thing, it is everywhere.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

We aren't going to out any of the onus on the immediate transfer portal?

The fact is, it's so much easier to transfer out today than it was 4 years ago. Every coach is going to have to try THAT much harder to keep players around.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

Fwiw. A transfer is about the only option for Livingston. There is no draft for him, like other past guys who left knowing they'd be a top50 draft pick.

If this was 5 years ago, Livingston, who already saw a decent amount of minutes, would likely have no choice but to return.. Unless he wanted to sit a year.

But in today's game, he's probably gone.

 

[rolaid]

Here is the issue - the Livingston family wants him to play the 3 spot - he is a below average passer dribbler and shooter
He’s great at hustle & rebounding - high motor
Edwards is coming next year - perfect 3 man
We would love for CL to be our 4 man
Does he want that? That’s were the transfer talk comes in

 

[K_TIME]

If he transfers then that’s not a Kentucky culture problem . That is more of a college basketball culture problem .

But Livingston started nearly every game and got 30 minutes down the stretch....why would you leave?

And he needs to move PF in college...and UK has little PF commodities on roster right now. Collins is it (and he's more of a 5) and then Ware is a defense only PF.

I am not going to jump the gun until it's official....but if Livingston isn't at UK it is a Cal issue in my mind.

 

[bnewt]

Next year's team depends on a few players returning. Livingston could be a star next season

HOW????
IN today's game, if you can't shoot you can't play
That was completely demonstrated yesterday
The smallest man on the court played the largest because he could SHOOT
Yet this so called HOF coach continues to recruit kids that can not shoot & ignore those that can
Bet he never even watched the kid that went to Kansas that shot so well all year
He wasn't rated high enough, yet Self was all over him
That is why Self is a much better coach than ccc, he can identify talent

 

[bnewt]

Here is the issue - the Livingston family wants him to play the 3 spot - he is a below average passer dribbler and shooter
He’s great at hustle & rebounding - high motor
Edwards is coming next year - perfect 3 man
We would love for CL to be our 4 man
Does he want that? That’s were the transfer talk comes in

who cares what "number" you play?
If you are a basketball player you can play, just that simple
Larry Bird was slow, couldn't jump but knew & understood the game
He was a BASKETBALL player

 

[LineSkiCat14]

But Livingston started nearly every game and got 30 minutes down the stretch....why would you leave?

And he needs to move PF in college...and UK has little PF commodities on roster right now. Collins is it (and he's more of a 5) and then Ware is a defense only PF.

I am not going to jump the gun until it's official....but if Livingston isn't at UK it is a Cal issue in my mind.

But this kind of contradicts it self. If Livingston wants to play the 3, and he plays the 3 here, that means Cal isn't using him in the best way. If Cal wants to use him at the 4, and CL says "no way I'm leaving", that's not really Cal's fault. Our coach either has to tell him the truth or lie to him.

This comes down to CL playing the position he was designed for and accepting his place. If he doesn't, then it's on HIM not the coach.

 

[Johnfarrel]

Not to mention he started and got a ton of minutes. If a guy like Livingston doesn't return as a sophomore, just shut it down next year. You HAVE to have guys like him blended with the incoming class. Have to.

Has anyone won a Championship with true freshmen? Did the Fab Five do it or just come close?

 

[HalHR2500]

Do you ever think maybe these players are sick of Calipari after one year and just want to leave. There is greener grass elsewhere folks.

The transfer portal is in play for Livingston

 

[Johnfarrel]

who cares what "number" you play?
If you are a basketball player you can play, just that simple
Larry Bird was slow, couldn't jump but knew & understood the game
He was a BASKETBALL player

Bird never looked like he was working hard. He just got the job done.

 

[ORCAT]

No one thinks he's leaving for the draft, only option is transferring which I could see happening given the class coming in.

Don't think he would have any problem playing with these guys and he would start and be a team leader.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

But's that's different because Hopkins didn't play at all.Livingston started every game.

True, point being is OP wondered why people thought Livingston would leave since he's not on a draft board. My point is there are other reasons to do that, I don't know what he's going to do but wouldn't be surprised if he left to go get more PT/shots. Also wouldn't be surprised if he stayed, we'll know in a few weeks.

Brooks started every game, he left.

 

[JimBR]

I don't think it's a shit culture considering what Bryce Hopkins just went thru...he went from warming the bench to Big East POY candidate in less than a year...guys leave and get a chance to better showcase their abilities and hopefully get to the league faster, it's all about that.

If Hopkins had stayed I think he would have been a significant contributor this year. Another shooter would have been helpful to this team. I agree with the Cal comment "this place isn't for everybody". Good to see him have success at Providence.
I definitely believe in this social media society we live now live in, Kentucky players probably feel more pressure to succeed/star than other schools.

 

[SDcatfan13]

That culture isn’t just limited to UK now. A lot of highly recruited guys who didn’t play a lot as freshmen are hitting the portal these days. Why compete when you can go somewhere else and start and be option 1. That seems to be the thinking these days. Developing and waiting your turn to shine is a thing of the past.

Good point. A lot of people here are stuck in the past when it's changed since 2019 to the transfer portal era.

With the NIL deals, I think vast majority of players who aren't out of eligiblity and aren't at least high 2nd round picks will transfer instead of going for the draft.

 

[catlogic15]

But this kind of contradicts it self. If Livingston wants to play the 3, and he plays the 3 here, that means Cal isn't using him in the best way. If Cal wants to use him at the 4, and CL says "no way I'm leaving", that's not really Cal's fault. Our coach either has to tell him the truth or lie to him.

This comes down to CL playing the position he was designed for and accepting his place. If he doesn't, then it's on HIM not the coach.

Cal is playing him at the 3 because that's what he'll play in the Pro's if he makes it. Playing him the 4 makes sense in college but he won't make it at that for sure in the NBA. Or, he won't stay if Cal moves him to a 4 (which I doubt). Regardless, another example of the fans being held hostage by Cal.

 

[plumdog69]

I think the "question whether CL is coming back" is mostly just some fans being cynical.
But I do understand why they are that way. And because of that, NOTHING is 100% or even close to it, so yeah he could not return. IMO I would put the odds at him returning at about 70%. 15% transfer, 15% go pro (play in G-league).

But he seems to like it at UK, and his teammates.
He played a good bit, a lot the final month.
And I really could see Cal making him the #1 option on offense next year, or at least top 3.

He bought his teammates earphones and thanked them……take that for what it worth

 

[FitchandMurray29]

Livingston really hurt his draft stock by doing the little things and playing better the last couple months. That gave him more opportunities and his shooting percentages plummeted. There was a time when he was 85+% from the line and about 40% from 3. Albeit on limited attempts. But he finished at 72% from the line and 30% from 3 while averaging 6 and 4 a game.

Now he still could pull the Peyton Watson, wing top 15 player, underwhelm in college, go pro and get drafted plan. Problem for Chris is Watson was long and lanky which the NBA loves. Maybe someone drafts him latter part of day 2 on athleticism and high school pedigree but that’s far from a guarantee.

He’s a 6’6 tweener with limited perimeter skills that showed nothing in the post this past season. Him not being a bona fide player as a top 15 recruit was one of the top factors in our disappointing year.

I think this is very hard for Cal. Do you pencil him in at the 4 for next year? However, you are not getting a top PF transfer if Chris is still here. They will see the pedigree and expect Cal to give them the spot.

Does Chris event want to play the 4? Justin will be the 3 man. Chris contrary to his own opinion can’t play the 2. Chris needs an open transition play style. We ranked 258 in Kenpom in tempo. He’s a downhill transition player at this point in time for a team that didn’t run.

I’ll use a very limited sample of last year, but for next year would you prefer sophomore Livingston or a PF transfer the like of Pete Nance, Matt Mayer, Trevon Brazile, etc? Those are the non plodding post options that were the highest ranked PF transfer options last year and for my question we’ll presume similar level this year.

 

[willievic]

No one thinks he's leaving for the draft, only option is transferring which I could see happening given the class coming in.

Would you blame him, not for the players coming in, but the coach he's playing under.

 

[Atrain7732]

I think it’s very fair to say that the immediate transfer rule has changed the game with a certain type of guy.

It’s also fair to say that UK and Cal’s pitch coddles and attracts those type of guys. Honestly I don’t know how you change it at this point. Is what it is.

I don’t see CL as that kinda guy. But you never know what’s going on with these kids. If he does leave could be multiple factors. Hope he stays.

 

[willievic]

HOW????
IN today's game, if you can't shoot you can't play
That was completely demonstrated yesterday
The smallest man on the court played the largest because he could SHOOT
Yet this so called HOF coach continues to recruit kids that can not shoot & ignore those that can
Bet he never even watched the kid that went to Kansas that shot so well all year
He wasn't rated high enough, yet Self was all over him
That is why Self is a much better coach than ccc, he can identify talent

Even a shooter needs screens to get open. Cal doesn't try and get people open with screens and kick-out to the wings. Once the ball comes inside, it stays inside, good or bad shot.

 

[NociHTTP]

That culture isn’t just limited to UK now. A lot of highly recruited guys who didn’t play a lot as freshmen are hitting the portal these days. Why compete when you can go somewhere else and start and be option 1. That seems to be the thinking these days. Developing and waiting your turn to shine is a thing of the past.

I get their way of thinking, though it's clearly not wise or what old-fashioned (like me) college hoops fans want to see. We enjoy seeing programs keep their players around and graduate. It's part of tradition. But to have all these kids running off to other programs just shows they aren't relishing the college experience and working their way up. That's sad.

 

[K_TIME]

But this kind of contradicts it self. If Livingston wants to play the 3, and he plays the 3 here, that means Cal isn't using him in the best way. If Cal wants to use him at the 4, and CL says "no way I'm leaving", that's not really Cal's fault. Our coach either has to tell him the truth or lie to him.

This comes down to CL playing the position he was designed for and accepting his place. If he doesn't, then it's on HIM not the coach.

Fair point...if it's "I'm a three or I'm out"...then it boils down to who you want more...Edwards or Livingston. To which point, I'm not sure So Livingston vs. Edwards Fr....probably slight edge to Livingston.

But I guess this is part of these deals with the devil. You promise kids something at the expense of the program then you're beholden to the player and not the team as the coach.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

Fair point...if it's "I'm a three or I'm out"...then it boils down to who you want more...Edwards or Livingston. To which point, I'm not sure So Livingston vs. Edwards Fr....probably slight edge to Livingston.

But I guess this is part of these deals with the devil. You promise kids something at the expense of the program then you're beholden to the player and not the team as the coach.

You might have to make promises sometimes, though, to form a team.. I think coaches do it way more often than we realize. All these guys give me used car salesmen vibes anyways.

I think Justin Edwards could be the real deal. And I think Cal is showing us he can't win by x's and o's.. he needs supreme talent that just 'out works" the other guys.

 

[YardCat]

But this kind of contradicts it self. If Livingston wants to play the 3, and he plays the 3 here, that means Cal isn't using him in the best way. If Cal wants to use him at the 4, and CL says "no way I'm leaving", that's not really Cal's fault. Our coach either has to tell him the truth or lie to him.

This comes down to CL playing the position he was designed for and accepting his place. If he doesn't, then it's on HIM not the coach.

What happened to positionless basketball that he loves to talk about

 

[UKat51]

Here is the issue - the Livingston family wants him to play the 3 spot - he is a below average passer dribbler and shooter
He’s great at hustle & rebounding - high motor
Edwards is coming next year - perfect 3 man
We would love for CL to be our 4 man
Does he want that? That’s were the transfer talk comes in

I thought he primarily played the 3 with Toppin at the 4. What am I missing?

 

[bnewt]

Even a shooter needs screens to get open. Cal doesn't try and get people open with screens and kick-out to the wings. Once the ball comes inside, it stays inside, good or bad shot.

Totally agree
No screens. No plays,no coaching

 

[UKat51]

Even a shooter needs screens to get open. Cal doesn't try and get people open with screens and kick-out to the wings. Once the ball comes inside, it stays inside, good or bad shot.

I think some of what you say has to do with Oscar’s ability to pass out of the post. Had five TOs yesterday. Loved his rebounding and scoring, but his limited defensive ability assisted in losing the St Peters game last year and against Kansas State yesterday. BTW, Reeves was 1-15 yesterday on a whole lot of open looks. Screen’s don’t matter if the shooter do hit the shot.