Let Talk The Recruited Class.

[C1180]

A decent not great recruited class. The top half is very good, Two four stars, seven 5.7 three stars, two possible immediate impact DL JUCOs and two transfers that were highly rated coming out of high school, have some experience playing at Nebraska, and IMO would have a huge immediate impact at need positions if they get their exemption from sitting out a year.

Players that I think are under rated OL George Asafo-Adjei IMO he should be a 4 star maybe best player in signing class, OL Logan Stenberg, should be a 4 star, OL Mason Wolfe should be a 5.7 3 star, CB/Safety Chris Westry 6.4, 180 and probably the second fastest player in the signing class IMO should be at least a 5.7 3 star WDE Kengera Daniels should be at least a 5.7 three star, DT Courtney Miggins a JUCO who at a 5.3 I believe he is grossly under rated, DT Javon Provitt I would bump to a 5.7 3 star, RB Sihiem King I would bump to 5.7 from 5.5. WR Therel Gosier to a 5.7 three star

Players that I think could have immediate impact next year. TE CJ Conrad,, WR Jabari Greenwood, WR Tavin Richardson, Safety Marcus Walker, DB Cris Westry Juco Avonte Bell, Juco DT Courtney Miggins, DT Javon Provitt and the two transfers from Nebraska if they get their exemption MLB Courtney Love and TE Greg Hart. OL George Asafo-Adjai who I believe might be the best player signed has a chance but it is very difficult for OL to play as Freshmen.

The player that I think could have the biggest impact would be MLB Courtney Love if he gets his exemption. He is the big run stuffing MLB that a UK defense that was lets just say terrible in run defense last year needs.

 

[KapitalCat]

That's a fair assessment. I think like each class the proof comes 3 years from now. We took some guys that were not highly rated that have great potential (Allen) and if the staff is as good as I think they were in evaluating players I think the class might go down as slightly better than 2014. Sieheim King is a guy that may make plays next year even though he wasn't that highly rated.

As we look at 2016, flipping Austin Kendall would be HUGE. IMO...a more important recruit than Damien Harris. He would give the class momentum and Drake Jackson and Kendall would keep the class together with less flips than last year.

 

[UKCatnNC]

I agree with your assessment C1180. I believe this class will show that they are better than their ratings. Go Cats!!

 

[C1180]

Lets have it UK football fans fans who do you think out of this class will have the greatest impact in the future? Who do you think is the most under rated? Who do you think will have the greatest impact next year? Who do you think might get the Randall Cobb award as the most under rated recruit coming out of high school that will have the biggest impact on UK football in the future? Who do you project to be a bust and prove to be over rated?

 

[KapitalCat]

Originally posted by C1180:

Lets have it UK football fans fans who do you think out of this class will have the greatest impact in the future? Courtney Love/CJ Conrad, Allen

Who do you think is the most under rated? Allen, King, Baity

Who do you think will have the greatest impact next year? Love, Conrad, King

Who do you think might get the Randall Cobb award as the most under rated recruit coming out of high school that will have the biggest impact on UK football in the future? King

Who do you project to be a bust and prove to be over rated? Sorry...I don't do busts

 

[docholiday51]

If what we read about the Allen kid is 3/4 accurate then we have a keeper.If you think short term future then if Love can get cleared to see the field this year and play a big role in helping us get to a bowl then maybe he gives us that extra push to the next level.

If we can get 3 or 4 of these guys to make the field on something other than special teams + have the redshirts from last year give us help where we need it we could make a bigger move than we expect.

 

[C1180]

Originally posted by KapitalCat:

Originally posted by C1180:

Lets have it UK football fans fans who do you think out of this class will have the greatest impact in the future? Courtney Love/CJ Conrad, Allen

Who do you think is the most under rated? Allen, King, Baity

Who do you think will have the greatest impact next year? Love, Conrad, King

Who do you think might get the Randall Cobb award as the most under rated recruit coming out of high school that will have the biggest impact on UK football in the future? King

Who do you project to be a bust and prove to be over rated? Sorry...I don't do busts

You are right about the bust thing and I wish I had not put that in there. Fans pleas ignore that part of my post.

I like your choices. You seem to be really high on Allen. Would you rate him as your number one under rated player. I thought of putting him in my list of under rated players but didn't know enough about him so did not. He looked really great in his video that I watched.

IMO the two biggest impact players in the future in this class will be OL George Asafo-Adeji and OL Logan Stenberg. They like all OL probably will not get the publicity but will in reality be the biggest impact players.

Most under rated after thinking about I think you are likely right and it is WDE/OLB Joshua Allen

Impact player next year MLB Courtney Love if he gets his exemption and TE CJ Conrad if love doesn't get his exemption.

The Cobb award for biggest impact by most under rated player I would give to King in the long run but Miggins in the short run.
This post was edited on 2/16 10:25 AM by C1180

 

[docholiday51]

If Love makes the field we could move Forrest outside and our defense gets a 2 for 1.It helps our talent on the field and makes us deeper which is always a good thing.

 

[LosGatos]

I'll be very surprised if either of the transfers get a waiver. But then, the NCAA is very unpredictable when it comes to these things.

 

[mrschwump]

I look for Conrad and King to have an impact in '15. GA-A will be a star but really needs a RS as does the other fr OL. UK's so thin at DE Daniel will probably be forced to play. He needs to RS as does Proffit. Richardson needs a RS too.

I'm not as high on the JUCOs as some. Miggins is undersized at 285 for a SEC DT. Looking at his pics he actually looks lighter than that. While Bell had some good offers out of HS, he did very little in 2 yrs of JUCO ball. Not sure he had an offer other than UK. I look for both to give depth only and that's not necessarily bad but you expect JUCOs on this level to see a lot of action.

 

[C1180]

Originally posted by docholiday51:

If what we read about the Allen kid is 3/4 accurate then we have a keeper.If you think short term future then if Love can get cleared to see the field this year and play a big role in helping us get to a bowl then maybe he gives us that extra push to the next level.

If we can get 3 or 4 of these guys to make the field on something other than special teams + have the redshirts from last year give us help where we need it we could make a bigger move than we expect.

IMO the defenses biggest immediate needs is a big tough run stuffing MLB and some DL that can play the piano and stop some runners at the LOS instead of allowing them 4 or 5 yards downfield before contact. I like third and 7 or 8 much better than third and 1 or 2. It makes it difficult to pick up the first with the run, and very short passes with YAC.

 

[C1180]

Originally posted by mrschwump:

I look for Conrad and King to have an impact in '15. GA-A will be a star but really needs a RS as does the other fr OL. UK's so thin at DE Daniel will probably be forced to play. He needs to RS as does Proffit. Richardson needs a RS too.

I'm not as high on the JUCOs as some. Miggins is undersized at 285 for a SEC DT. Looking at his pics he actually looks lighter than that. While Bell had some good offers out of HS, he did very little in 2 yrs of JUCO ball. Not sure he had an offer other than UK. I look for both to give depth only and that's not necessarily bad but you expect JUCOs on this level to see a lot of action.

The prediction of the two big OL having the most impact of any of the players in this class was for the future long haul not next year. I think they will be redshirted next year but that is not written in stone. IMO the Coaching staff could play one or both if they are the best option. Conrad was my likely impact player for next year since I think neither of the transfers get an exemption. Love would be my choice however if he gets his exemption.

 

[docholiday51]

Originally posted by C1180:

Originally posted by docholiday51:

If what we read about the Allen kid is 3/4 accurate then we have a keeper.If you think short term future then if Love can get cleared to see the field this year and play a big role in helping us get to a bowl then maybe he gives us that extra push to the next level.

If we can get 3 or 4 of these guys to make the field on something other than special teams + have the redshirts from last year give us help where we need it we could make a bigger move than we expect.

IMO the defenses biggest immediate needs is a big tough run stuffing MLB and some DL that can play the piano and stop some runners at the LOS instead of allowing them 4 or 5 yards downfield before contact. I like third and 7 or 8 much better than third and 1 or 2. It makes it difficult to pick up the first with the run, and very short passes with YAC.

Agree 100% hopefully Love gets cleared that would make us so much better in that area.Maybe Elam's second year will be a day and night situation.Middleton could be a factor as well.

 

[mrschwump]

Doubt Love gets the exemption. This is the NCAA after all, they seldom do the right thing.

 

[Grumpyolddawg]

Was the Westry kid hurt or something? How is a CB that tall and fast not rated higher? If not hurt maybe a baseball player in the summer and didn't attend any camps? JUCO guys are a hit and miss deal, I can't think of a recent one UGA has signed who was anything better than average, most didn't even make it through 2 years. 2 years ago we signed the JUCO top WR and he caught 6 passes last year, but we keep trying, got a couple we hope can contribute this year, plus a transfer from UAB who is eligible because they did away with football.

King was no smaller than Boom was as a HS sr. But to be fair I can't believe how thick Boom was this past season, he is no longer a small back, just a short one and probably a top 5 back in SEC. Asafo-Adei is probably good enough to play this year, don't know much about the other guys

 

[jauk11]

Fortunately I thnk this crew is in it for the long haul, and won't play any true freshmen unless they are sorely needed AND ready to play. And yes, those type of players do exist, we even get some occasionally, a lot more frequently now, but also now we aren't so desperate that we have to play them.

 

[C1180]

I have given it some thought and came to the conclusion that I left a player out of my Under rated group. DB Marcus Walker who is rated a 5.7, 3 star and IMO he is a four star at least and could be an impact player at UK next year at safety. IMO a plus for the UK secondary recruits is that most of them can play CB and Safety. That versatility IMO is a real plus.

 

[docholiday51]

Our need to fill spots in the front 7 is so great that we may be overlooking positions in the secondary,some of those guys might play very early.

 

[KapitalCat]

Originally posted by LosGatos:
I'll be very surprised if either of the transfers get a waiver. But then, the NCAA is very unpredictable when it comes to these things.

Hart has no chance. Love is 50-50 but it's a shot.

 

[KapitalCat]

Originally posted by C1180:
I like your choices. You seem to be really high on Allen. Would you rate him as your number one under rated player. I thought of putting him in my list of under rated players but didn't know enough about him so did not. He looked really great in his video that I watched.

I
This post was edited on 2/16 10:25 AM by C1180

I would rate him as my number 1 underrated player. Maybe not the best...but the most underrated. I like what his HS coach said about him and given the way he migrated from Alabama to NJ and the position change, I don't think he had a chance to get a fair rating. He will redshirt but with his speed and pass rush skills I think he will be a guy that develops like Trevathan. Danny was a 5.3 two star coming out of HS.

 

[C1180]

Originally posted by KapitalCat:

Originally posted by C1180:

I like your choices. You seem to be really high on Allen. Would you rate him as your number one under rated player. I thought of putting him in my list of under rated players but didn't know enough about him so did not. He looked really great in his video that I watched.

I

This post was edited on 2/16 10:25 AM by C1180

I would rate him as my number 1 underrated player. Maybe not the best...but the most underrated. I like what his HS coach said about him and given the way he migrated from Alabama to NJ and the position change, I don't think he had a chance to get a fair rating. He will redshirt but with his speed and pass rush skills I think he will be a guy that develops like Trevathan. Danny was a 5.3 two star coming out of HS.

What position do you think Allen eventually plays. Do you think they bulk him up and make a DE out of him or do you think he winds up at the hybrid LB/DE position like Dupree? I suppose a lot depends on whether they play 3 or 4 man fronts I certainly would like it if he has a career like Trevathan.

 

[KapitalCat]

Originally posted by C1180:

Originally posted by KapitalCat:

Originally posted by C1180:

I like your choices. You seem to be really high on Allen. Would you rate him as your number one under rated player. I thought of putting him in my list of under rated players but didn't know enough about him so did not. He looked really great in his video that I watched.

I

This post was edited on 2/16 10:25 AM by C1180

I would rate him as my number 1 underrated player. Maybe not the best...but the most underrated. I like what his HS coach said about him and given the way he migrated from Alabama to NJ and the position change, I don't think he had a chance to get a fair rating. He will redshirt but with his speed and pass rush skills I think he will be a guy that develops like Trevathan. Danny was a 5.3 two star coming out of HS.

What position do you think Allen eventually plays. Do you think they bulk him up and make a DE out of him or do you think he winds up at the hybrid LB/DE position like Dupree? I suppose a lot depends on whether they play 3 or 4 man fronts I certainly would like it if he has a career like Trevathan.

Very good question. I think he plays the hybrid LB/DE position. Watching his films he plays upright some and with his hands on the ground some.

 

[docholiday51]

Allen will be almost as big as Danny T when he gets here.Probably more in the mold of Dupree by the time he hits his peak here..An OLB,with his speed covering the wide or strong side of the field seems likely.
This post was edited on 2/16 1:05 PM by docholiday51

 

[Deeeefense]

I think we are close to the point now where the vast majority of this class will be redshirted. However as far as who could make an immediate impact I would look at Bell, Miggins and possible Daniel along the D line as they are all physically mature enough to see the field. Love if he is eligible. Because of his size Westry may get a look in certain matchup situations (facing a Missouri with a bunch of tall receivers for instance). On the offensive side I only see two possibilities, Conrad by virtue of the fact that we are really depleted at TE and need some immediate help, and King who I think could add some punch in the return game. Since Demarco Robinson is gone, and the staff still seems to be concerned abut Timmons' ball security, the door is open for someone to step in, especially on kickoffs but maybe punts too. Also with only 3 returning scholarship running backs King will probably be need at some point to carry the mail. So King probably has the best chance to get a Randall Cobb award if there was such a thing. Odd thing is he was a last minute addition to this class but in the end may very well turn out to be the most important addition.

I don't see any receivers or offensive lineman from this class seeing the field much at all this year. No linebackers other than Love and no DBs other than Westry who is a maybe.





This post was edited on 2/16 1:54 PM by Deeeefense

 

[bigblueinsanity]

This class wasn't as highly rated, but was full of athletic, physical athletes. Very few ready to contribute on day 1, or even year 1. But if they develop - there will be some real difference makers eventually.

 

[C1180]

Originally posted by Deeeefense:
I think we are close to the point now where the vast majority of this class will be redshirted. However as far as who could make an immediate impact I would look at Bell, Miggins and possible Daniel along the D line as they are all physically mature enough to see the field. Love if he is eligible. Because of his size Westry may get a look in certain matchup situations (facing a Missouri with a bunch of tall receivers for instance). On the offensive side I only see two possibilities, Conrad by virtue of the fact that we are really depleted at TE and need some immediate help, and King who I think could add some punch in the return game. Since Demarco Robinson is gone, and the staff still seems to be concerned abut Timmons' ball security, the door is open for someone to step in, especially on kickoffs but maybe punts too. Also with only 3 returning scholarship running backs King will probably be need at some point to carry the mail. So King probably has the best chance to get a Randall Cobb award if there was such a thing. Odd thing is he was a last minute addition to this class but in the end may very well turn out to be the most important addition.

I don't see any receivers or offensive lineman from this class seeing the field much at all this year. No linebackers other than Love and no DBs other than Westry who is a maybe.






This post was edited on 2/16 1:54 PM by Deeeefense

I agree that most of these players need to redshirt but disagree that no WR or DB plays this year. IMO UK has such a dire need of some players with length at those positions that some of the Freshmen recruits play this season. I also would not be surprised if one of the LBs of the Duo of Brown and Jones play instead of redshirting especially if Love does not get to play.

Do I think that those players should and need to redshirt. Yes, but IMO some will play because Coach Stoops realizes just how important that it will be for this team to make progress and win more games next year.

 

[WildCard]

It's a lazy, snowy day here in the 'Ville...a good day for a lengthy post.

Some years ago, well before Al Gore invented this internet thing, there were relatively few "recruiting experts". They tended to cover specific states or regions and their evaluation products were available only by subscription. In nothing else, just about every school used these products for initial screenings and to compile their own target lists. Naturally, established staffs in high talent states (e.g., TX) could successfully recruit within their own borders and had less need for outside help.

One of the more "prominent experts" of the day said he based recruiting classes on the "best" 15 recruits. His rationale was that regardless of how good was the class overall, only the top 15 were likely to be real "contributors" over their career. When you stop to think about it that is not an unreasonable assumption.

This was back in the days of wholesale redshirting. Now it was true that the ALs, the OKs, the MIs, the TXs, tOSU, et. al. had kids sitting on the bench that would have likely been major contributors in lesser programs but the reality of the situation was those kids generally made little impact at their school. If they were not good enough to play they were likely recruited over sometime in their tenure. Seems ridiculous to us here in the state of KY but, taken to the extreme, if you recruit 25 four star prospects only the 15 "best" are likely to be strong contributors over their career.

The upshot of this argument is that I think Rivals greatly enhanced the "accuracy" of their class recruiting rankings when they capped it at the top 20 recruits. I think it would be further improved if they eliminated the bonus points for being a so called Top 250 player (this is adding a subjective evaluation on top of an already subjective evaluation) and based it upon the Top 17 prospects (the 25/yr but 85 max numbers implicitly recognize a "loss" of an average of 8 players per class over a 5 year period).

Which finally brings me to the OP's "evaluations" of some of the current recruits, i.e.,

Players that I think are under rated OL George Asafo-Adjei IMO he should be a 4 star maybe best player in signing class, OL Logan Stenberg, should be a 4 star, OL Mason Wolfe should be a 5.7 3 star, CB/Safety Chris Westry 6.4, 180 and probably the second fastest player in the signing class IMO should be at least a 5.7 3 star WDE Kengera Daniels should be at least a 5.7 three star, DT Courtney Miggins a JUCO who at a 5.3 I believe he is grossly under rated, DT Javon Provitt I would bump to a 5.7 3 star, RB Sihiem King I would bump to 5.7 from 5.5. WR Therel Gosier to a 5.7 three star

C1180, other than being a hardcore UK fan (no apology necessary

) I am interested in "how" you arrived at the above "upgraded ratings" for those players.

While there are problems with the "completeness" of the data I am a big believer in offers as a "measure" of talent. Yes, there are always some sleepers and late bloomers. And while some staffs might do a bit better job identifying such players (and some staffs do not have to even bother doing so) I think overall most coaches are looking for the same things at most positions. You might make a few system driven allowances for QB but basically everybody wants the same kind of talent at other positions (e.g., regardless of whether you pull or not you want OLs with quick feet; you want quick CBs with good "swivel", you want big DLs that can run, etc.).

With that in mind, I do think offers lend credibility to the individual evaluations of "recruiting experts". Consider the following offer information from this site for the above players:

Name (RR) Tot Offers P5 Offers Best Offer

Asafo-Adjei (5.7) 12 7 FL
Stenberg (5.7) 02 1 UK
Wolfe (5.5) 01 1 UK
Westry (5.6) 08 3 AU
Daniels (5.6) 14 11 AL
Miggins (5.3) 03 3 MSU
Provitt (5.5) 04 2 UK
King (5.5) 12 5 GA Tech
Gossier (5.5) 10 6 Clemson

With the possible exception of Daniels I think those guys are pretty accurately rated. Naturally, there are always those that exceed expectations as well as those that do not meet them.

When I look at UK's class overall, I see a balanced class, a class that might be the core of the team in a few years. Four DBs, 3 LBs and 4 DLs, i.e., a complete defense. With the current roster deep and young at the QB and RB position, the offense includes 4 OLs and 5 more WRs/TEs. So the composition of the class looks very good. The question, of course, is whether or not the talent is sufficient to get UK where they want to go. I don't know. For anything less than the stunning collection of talent put together by The Usual Suspects it generally takes about 3 years to really see how good is your class overall.

All, of course, JMO.

Snow has stopped and the street has been plowed; should I tackle the driveway now or tomorrow? I think tomorrow.

Peace

 

[C1180]

Originally posted by WildCard:
It's a lazy, snowy day here in the 'Ville...a good day for a lengthy post.

Some years ago, well before Al Gore invented this internet thing, there were relatively few "recruiting experts". They tended to cover specific states or regions and their evaluation products were available only by subscription. In nothing else, just about every school used these products for initial screenings and to compile their own target lists. Naturally, established staffs in high talent states (e.g., TX) could successfully recruit within their own borders and had less need for outside help.

One of the more "prominent experts" of the day said he based recruiting classes on the "best" 15 recruits. His rationale was that regardless of how good was the class overall, only the top 15 were likely to be real "contributors" over their career. When you stop to think about it that is not an unreasonable assumption.

This was back in the days of wholesale redshirting. Now it was true that the ALs, the OKs, the MIs, the TXs, tOSU, et. al. had kids sitting on the bench that would have likely been major contributors in lesser programs but the reality of the situation was those kids generally made little impact at their school. If they were not good enough to play they were likely recruited over sometime in their tenure. Seems ridiculous to us here in the state of KY but, taken to the extreme, if you recruit 25 four star prospects only the 15 "best" are likely to be strong contributors over their career.

The upshot of this argument is that I think Rivals greatly enhanced the "accuracy" of their class recruiting rankings when they capped it at the top 20 recruits. I think it would be further improved if they eliminated the bonus points for being a so called Top 250 player (this is adding a subjective evaluation on top of an already subjective evaluation) and based it upon the Top 17 prospects (the 25/yr but 85 max numbers implicitly recognize a "loss" of an average of 8 players per class over a 5 year period).

Which finally brings me to the OP's "evaluations" of some of the current recruits, i.e.,

Players that I think are under rated OL George Asafo-Adjei IMO he should be a 4 star maybe best player in signing class, OL Logan Stenberg, should be a 4 star, OL Mason Wolfe should be a 5.7 3 star, CB/Safety Chris Westry 6.4, 180 and probably the second fastest player in the signing class IMO should be at least a 5.7 3 star WDE Kengera Daniels should be at least a 5.7 three star, DT Courtney Miggins a JUCO who at a 5.3 I believe he is grossly under rated, DT Javon Provitt I would bump to a 5.7 3 star, RB Sihiem King I would bump to 5.7 from 5.5. WR Therel Gosier to a 5.7 three star

C1180, other than being a hardcore UK fan (no apology necessary

) I am interested in "how" you arrived at the above "upgraded ratings" for those players.

While there are problems with the "completeness" of the data I am a big believer in offers as a "measure" of talent. Yes, there are always some sleepers and late bloomers. And while some staffs might do a bit better job identifying such players (and some staffs do not have to even bother doing so) I think overall most coaches are looking for the same things at most positions. You might make a few system driven allowances for QB but basically everybody wants the same kind of talent at other positions (e.g., regardless of whether you pull or not you want OLs with quick feet; you want quick CBs with good "swivel", you want big DLs that can run, etc.).

With that in mind, I do think offers lend credibility to the individual evaluations of "recruiting experts". Consider the following offer information from this site for the above players:

Name (RR) Tot Offers P5 Offers Best Offer

Asafo-Adjei (5.7) 12 7 FL
Stenberg (5.7) 02 1 UK
Wolfe (5.5) 01 1 UK
Westry (5.6) 08 3 AU
Daniels (5.6) 14 11 AL
Miggins (5.3) 03 3 MSU
Provitt (5.5) 04 2 UK
King (5.5) 12 5 GA Tech
Gossier (5.5) 10 6 Clemson

With the possible exception of Daniels I think those guys are pretty accurately rated. Naturally, there are always those that exceed expectations as well as those that do not meet them.

When I look at UK's class overall, I see a balanced class, a class that might be the core of the team in a few years. Four DBs, 3 LBs and 4 DLs, i.e., a complete defense. With the current roster deep and young at the QB and RB position, the offense includes 4 OLs and 5 more WRs/TEs. So the composition of the class looks very good. The question, of course, is whether or not the talent is sufficient to get UK where they want to go. I don't know. For anything less than the stunning collection of talent put together by The Usual Suspects it generally takes about 3 years to really see how good is your class overall.

All, of course, JMO.

Snow has stopped and the street has been plowed; should I tackle the driveway now or tomorrow? I think tomorrow.

Peace

Wildcard I have watched videos on most of these player, read reports on them, listened to a lot of the so called experts, and noted the stats in their Bios. I also know that kids that commit to schools like UK early get short shift in ratings compared to those that commit early to the big boys of college football. I have been around high school and college football a very long time and think my evaluations are near as good as some of our so called rating experts you included. There is also some of the so called rating experts whose opinion I respect more than other. That was also a factor in me stating my opinion on those players I believe to be under rated. You will note I said opinion and when we get down to it all any of these rating everyone seem to prize so much are only a sum of peoples opinions. I vote you go shovel your driveway and leave this rating bit to us experts

 

[catben]

CJ Conrad is the one recruit that is going to be thrust into the playing rotation and may even start the season at TE. So he has to be considered as the most important of the class.

Asafo-Adjel is the next in line to make an immediate impact. He has the size, strength and agility to get playing time this season.

I agree with KapitalCat that Allen has to be the potential "Randall Cobb" of the class. I heard his coach on WLAP state that he has had 4 high Div. 1 defensive players and Allen has the best upside of them all. The coach said that Allen had the lateral quickness and speed at 6'5'' to be a difference maker even in the SEC.

If Love gets to play immediately, then he will make the biggest impact. We need improved play from all LB positions this season. Love would allow Nico Firios to ease into playing the MLB position at the SEC level.

Kengera Daniel at DE and Marcus Walker at DB would be the other 2 that could get playing time depending on how healthy we stay.

I would love to be able to Redshirt the rest of the players.

This post was edited on 2/16 4:41 PM by catben

This post was edited on 2/16 4:48 PM by catben

This post was edited on 2/16 4:58 PM by catben

 

[bluescat92]

What this class gives us along with the 2016 class is the beginning of much needed depth from kids who will push whoever are starters are. Let the battles for playing time begin as I feel that will be the beginning to the kind of success this coaching staff is working towards.

 

[Grumpyolddawg]

Originally posted by Deeeefense:
I think we are close to the point now where the vast majority of this class will be redshirted. However as far as who could make an immediate impact I would look at Bell, Miggins and possible Daniel along the D line as they are all physically mature enough to see the field. Love if he is eligible. Because of his size Westry may get a look in certain matchup situations (facing a Missouri with a bunch of tall receivers for instance). On the offensive side I only see two possibilities, Conrad by virtue of the fact that we are really depleted at TE and need some immediate help, and King who I think could add some punch in the return game. Since Demarco Robinson is gone, and the staff still seems to be concerned abut Timmons' ball security, the door is open for someone to step in, especially on kickoffs but maybe punts too. Also with only 3 returning scholarship running backs King will probably be need at some point to carry the mail. So King probably has the best chance to get a Randall Cobb award if there was such a thing. Odd thing is he was a last minute addition to this class but in the end may very well turn out to be the most important addition.

I don't see any receivers or offensive lineman from this class seeing the field much at all this year. No linebackers other than Love and no DBs other than Westry who is a maybe.





This post was edited on 2/16 1:54 PM by Deeeefense

20-25 years ago RS were the big trend, but today with all the kids declaring early, especially RB, WR and DB, if they can be solid backups and likely starters the second year might as well play them. If they think they will get drafted in the first 3-4 rounds many of them are gone and you only have them 2 years. People around them telling them to get paid and coming from the backgrounds many of these kids come from its hard to turn down.

 

[C1180]

Originally posted by catben:
CJ Conrad is the one recruit that is going to be thrust into the playing rotation and may even start the season at TE. So he has to be considered as the most important of the class.

Asafo-Adjel is the next in line to make an immediate impact. He has the size, strength and agility to get playing time this season.

I agree with KapitalCat that Allen has to be the potential "Randall Cobb" of the class. I heard his coach on WLAP state that he has had 4 high Div. 1 defensive players and Allen has the best upside of them all. The coach said that Allen had the lateral quickness and speed at 6'5'' to be a difference maker even in the SEC.

If Love gets to play immediately, then he will make the biggest impact. We need improved play from all LB positions this season. Love would allow Nico Firios to ease into playing the MLB position at the SEC level.

Kengera Daniel at DE and Marcus Walker at CB would be the other 2 that could get playing time depending on how healthy we stay.

I would love the be able to Redshirt the rest of the players.


This post was edited on 2/16 4:41 PM by catben

I am not going to say it will be impossible that Marcus Walker will be at CB but I will say it is much more likely he will be playing at Safety. Maybe a Nickel Safety when they go the 4-2-5 route. Having good cover guys at those outside safety spots is a plus. I think he is a natural safety but Stoops has said that he thinks most off the secondary recruits can play both CB and Safety.

 

[catben]

Originally posted by Grumpyolddawg:

Originally posted by Deeeefense:
I think we are close to the point now where the vast majority of this class will be redshirted. However as far as who could make an immediate impact I would look at Bell, Miggins and possible Daniel along the D line as they are all physically mature enough to see the field. Love if he is eligible. Because of his size Westry may get a look in certain matchup situations (facing a Missouri with a bunch of tall receivers for instance). On the offensive side I only see two possibilities, Conrad by virtue of the fact that we are really depleted at TE and need some immediate help, and King who I think could add some punch in the return game. Since Demarco Robinson is gone, and the staff still seems to be concerned abut Timmons' ball security, the door is open for someone to step in, especially on kickoffs but maybe punts too. Also with only 3 returning scholarship running backs King will probably be need at some point to carry the mail. So King probably has the best chance to get a Randall Cobb award if there was such a thing. Odd thing is he was a last minute addition to this class but in the end may very well turn out to be the most important addition.

I don't see any receivers or offensive lineman from this class seeing the field much at all this year. No linebackers other than Love and no DBs other than Westry who is a maybe.





This post was edited on 2/16 1:54 PM by Deeeefense

20-25 years ago RS were the big trend, but today with all the kids declaring early, especially RB, WR and DB, if they can be solid backups and likely starters the second year might as well play them. If they think they will get drafted in the first 3-4 rounds many of them are gone and you only have them 2 years. People around them telling them to get paid and coming from the backgrounds many of these kids come from its hard to turn down.

Grumpy, I am looking forward to the not so distant future that UK Football has to worry about losing kids that have been here 2 years to the NFL.

 

[Deeeefense]

Originally posted by Grumpyolddawg:

20-25 years ago RS were the big trend, but today with all the kids declaring early, especially RB, WR and DB, if they can be solid backups and likely starters the second year might as well play them. If they think they will get drafted in the first 3-4 rounds many of them are gone and you only have them 2 years. People around them telling them to get paid and coming from the backgrounds many of these kids come from its hard to turn down.

I've gone back and forth on the pros and cons of red-shirting most of your freshmen but after seeing what Missouri has done with top 30 classes I'm convinced that for a program like where Kentucky is right now, very liberal red-shirting is the way to go. The rosters under the last staff was like a revolving door but this staff is retaining and developing the vast majority of what they bring in so I think they are in a good position to do even more red-shirting this year than last.

 

[catben]

Originally posted by C1180:

Originally posted by catben:
CJ Conrad is the one recruit that is going to be thrust into the playing rotation and may even start the season at TE. So he has to be considered as the most important of the class.

Asafo-Adjel is the next in line to make an immediate impact. He has the size, strength and agility to get playing time this season.

I agree with KapitalCat that Allen has to be the potential "Randall Cobb" of the class. I heard his coach on WLAP state that he has had 4 high Div. 1 defensive players and Allen has the best upside of them all. The coach said that Allen had the lateral quickness and speed at 6'5'' to be a difference maker even in the SEC.

If Love gets to play immediately, then he will make the biggest impact. We need improved play from all LB positions this season. Love would allow Nico Firios to ease into playing the MLB position at the SEC level.

Kengera Daniel at DE and Marcus Walker at CB would be the other 2 that could get playing time depending on how healthy we stay.

I would love the be able to Redshirt the rest of the players.


This post was edited on 2/16 4:41 PM by catben

I am not going to say it will be impossible that Marcus Walker will be at CB but I will say it is much more likely he will be playing at Safety. Maybe a Nickel Safety when they go the 4-2-5 route. Having good cover guys at those outside safety spots is a plus. I think he is a natural safety but Stoops has said that he thinks most off the secondary recruits can play both CB and Safety.

Sorry C1180, I meant DB as in Nickel for Walker, but only if we had injuries. Mis typed as you can see I've had to edit 3 times.

 

[C1180]

Originally posted by Deeeefense:

Originally posted by Grumpyolddawg:


20-25 years ago RS were the big trend, but today with all the kids declaring early, especially RB, WR and DB, if they can be solid backups and likely starters the second year might as well play them. If they think they will get drafted in the first 3-4 rounds many of them are gone and you only have them 2 years. People around them telling them to get paid and coming from the backgrounds many of these kids come from its hard to turn down.

I've gone back and forth on the pros and cons of red-shirting most of your freshmen but after seeing what Missouri has done with top 30 classes I'm convinced that for a program like where Kentucky is right now, very liberal red-shirting is the way to go. The rosters under the last staff was like a revolving door but this staff is retaining and developing the vast majority of what they bring in so I think they are in a good position to do even more red-shirting this year than last.

There is no doubt that in most cases that Freshmen need to be redshirted and that you will be better for it 5 years down the road but we do not live in a world where doing what is best is always possible. Even the big boys find it necessary at times to play true Freshmen. UK has holes to fill and some of those just might have to be filled with true Freshmen. IMO next season will be critical for this football program to continue in upward mobility and I think Stoops does every thing he can to make that possible including playing Freshmen if they are the best option.

 

[kyleb740]

I wouldn't be surprised to see both JUCOs (Bell & Miggins) redshirted. We have Sr- Huguenin, Lewis, CJ Johnson, J. Johnson. Jr- Hatcher. So- Meant, Elam, Hyde. rFr- Dubose, Middleton, Ware. We have enough bodies on the DL and DE/LB spots that will play so unless they are immediate impact players (which is a ? for me) then they would be better off redshirting like Lewis did his first year here.

 

[jauk11]

Originally posted by WildCard:
It's a lazy, snowy day here in the 'Ville...a good day for a lengthy post.

Some years ago, well before Al Gore invented this internet thing, there were relatively few "recruiting experts". They tended to cover specific states or regions and their evaluation products were available only by subscription. In nothing else, just about every school used these products for initial screenings and to compile their own target lists. Naturally, established staffs in high talent states (e.g., TX) could successfully recruit within their own borders and had less need for outside help.

One of the more "prominent experts" of the day said he based recruiting classes on the "best" 15 recruits. His rationale was that regardless of how good was the class overall, only the top 15 were likely to be real "contributors" over their career. When you stop to think about it that is not an unreasonable assumption.

This was back in the days of wholesale redshirting. Now it was true that the ALs, the OKs, the MIs, the TXs, tOSU, et. al. had kids sitting on the bench that would have likely been major contributors in lesser programs but the reality of the situation was those kids generally made little impact at their school. If they were not good enough to play they were likely recruited over sometime in their tenure. Seems ridiculous to us here in the state of KY but, taken to the extreme, if you recruit 25 four star prospects only the 15 "best" are likely to be strong contributors over their career.

The upshot of this argument is that I think Rivals greatly enhanced the "accuracy" of their class recruiting rankings when they capped it at the top 20 recruits. I think it would be further improved if they eliminated the bonus points for being a so called Top 250 player (this is adding a subjective evaluation on top of an already subjective evaluation) and based it upon the Top 17 prospects (the 25/yr but 85 max numbers implicitly recognize a "loss" of an average of 8 players per class over a 5 year period).

Which finally brings me to the OP's "evaluations" of some of the current recruits, i.e.,

Players that I think are under rated OL George Asafo-Adjei IMO he should be a 4 star maybe best player in signing class, OL Logan Stenberg, should be a 4 star, OL Mason Wolfe should be a 5.7 3 star, CB/Safety Chris Westry 6.4, 180 and probably the second fastest player in the signing class IMO should be at least a 5.7 3 star WDE Kengera Daniels should be at least a 5.7 three star, DT Courtney Miggins a JUCO who at a 5.3 I believe he is grossly under rated, DT Javon Provitt I would bump to a 5.7 3 star, RB Sihiem King I would bump to 5.7 from 5.5. WR Therel Gosier to a 5.7 three star

C1180, other than being a hardcore UK fan (no apology necessary

) I am interested in "how" you arrived at the above "upgraded ratings" for those players.

While there are problems with the "completeness" of the data I am a big believer in offers as a "measure" of talent. Yes, there are always some sleepers and late bloomers. And while some staffs might do a bit better job identifying such players (and some staffs do not have to even bother doing so) I think overall most coaches are looking for the same things at most positions. You might make a few system driven allowances for QB but basically everybody wants the same kind of talent at other positions (e.g., regardless of whether you pull or not you want OLs with quick feet; you want quick CBs with good "swivel", you want big DLs that can run, etc.).

With that in mind, I do think offers lend credibility to the individual evaluations of "recruiting experts". Consider the following offer information from this site for the above players:

Name (RR) Tot Offers P5 Offers Best Offer

Asafo-Adjei (5.7) 12 7 FL
Stenberg (5.7) 02 1 UK
Wolfe (5.5) 01 1 UK
Westry (5.6) 08 3 AU
Daniels (5.6) 14 11 AL
Miggins (5.3) 03 3 MSU
Provitt (5.5) 04 2 UK
King (5.5) 12 5 GA Tech
Gossier (5.5) 10 6 Clemson

With the possible exception of Daniels I think those guys are pretty accurately rated. Naturally, there are always those that exceed expectations as well as those that do not meet them.

When I look at UK's class overall, I see a balanced class, a class that might be the core of the team in a few years. Four DBs, 3 LBs and 4 DLs, i.e., a complete defense. With the current roster deep and young at the QB and RB position, the offense includes 4 OLs and 5 more WRs/TEs. So the composition of the class looks very good. The question, of course, is whether or not the talent is sufficient to get UK where they want to go. I don't know. For anything less than the stunning collection of talent put together by The Usual Suspects it generally takes about 3 years to really see how good is your class overall.

All, of course, JMO.

Snow has stopped and the street has been plowed; should I tackle the driveway now or tomorrow? I think tomorrow.

Peace

While I respect your football knowledge about as much as I don't understand how you can back the Cardinals I think the UK 10 class makes a shambles of your theory about limiting the ratings to the top 17. And I do have to admit that there was NO explaining how that class turned out. I was very excited by Joker adding four of our top rated recruits in that class at the last minute, 4* Smith and 5.7s Gainer, Patterson, and Priester, but the only 5.7 that did didley out of our top 5 recruits was Sanders, an early Joker commit.

On the other hand of the SEVEN two stars listed in the class Bailey started several games his first year, Eatmon contributed, Huguenin may start this year, Mansour was a big plus, especially as a Senior, T Robinson started a lot of games, Shields played quite a bit, and Simmons played quite a bit, surely more than the 5.6 rated Trimble. The ONLY total flameout among the two stars was Ratliff that was only rated a 4.9 and showed up 2" shorter and 20 # lighter that caused the coach that recruited him to get fired.

Mixed results on the 5.5s and 5.6s, 5.5s Brause, J Johnson and Rumph played while I think Delic, Gibbs, and McDuffen didn't do much. Same with the 5.6s that should be solid contributors, Williamson, Douglas, and Simpson certainly did but nothing from the other four, Trimble, McAdoo, Laughlin, and J Henderson.

Certainly an anomaly and a strange class in the way expectations turned out though. I'm sure you could find some classes to back your point of view, I have always scratched my head about the 10 class, the beginning of the end for Joker along with losing most of the stars from the 09 class early, the two four star JCs plus the much underrated 5.6 Warford.
This post was edited on 2/17 1:20 AM by jauk11

 

[C1180]

Originally posted by kyleb740:
I wouldn't be surprised to see both JUCOs (Bell & Miggins) redshirted. We have Sr- Huguenin, Lewis, CJ Johnson, J. Johnson. Jr- Hatcher. So- Meant, Elam, Hyde. rFr- Dubose, Middleton, Ware. We have enough bodies on the DL and DE/LB spots that will play so unless they are immediate impact players (which is a ? for me) then they would be better off redshirting like Lewis did his first year here.

IMO redshirting JUCOs defeats the reason that you likely signed them which was to fill an immediate need in your 2 deep. IMO if you are not going to use JUCOs right away it makes little sense to sign them. Signing a high school player that you would have for maybe five year would make much more sense. A JUCO has already had two years to gain strength and receive coaching and should be ready to put on the field. Think about it would you not question whether a high school player that had been in your program for two years entering his third and wasn't ready to contribute was going to be a bust.

 

[hmt5000]

provitt and gosier were underrated because of grades and i honestly dont know if they truly are good to go or not. if they both make it to campus we got steals.

miggins is gonna play big Z's spot in the 3-4 so he's not a small tackle, he's a large de. what i read somewhere. elam and lewis nt. meant middleton and cj johnson at dt. and then miggins, huegenin, dubose at big DE. you'll see different fronts so all those guys will kinda play different spots but i think that sounded right to me.

stenberg and wolfe didnt get more offers because they shut down recruiting upon committing. no re-evaluation because 8 different fanbases weren't screaming to know more about him.

i think some people are selling walker short. he can lay the wood. he's athletic. has really good ball skillz. watch some of his picks on highlight. he gets some that you just shouldn't get. i think he is a tad short for safety and that is why he's rated a little lower but he had a lot of interest from schools because of his skill.