Not dissing Stoops, but support for the MONEY COW grew because even our dumb academic faculty had to see that support had to grow from a negative to a positive when we started losing hundreds of millions from NON-support of football.
KSR today…..
- Thread starter Rockfly78
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And what was Stoops record his first season after adding three four stars compared to Joker's? The same criminal TWO OOC nobody win season.
Joker's mess was caused by a full DECADE of no improvements to football's facilities. You don't beat Florida in Joker's first year when you have TWO four stars starting (offset by two walkons starting) and their TWO DEEP (offense AND defense) averages above a 5.9 as recruits. And Joker's talent and record went down from his first year from there.
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And the things you need depend on an AD not totally worried about his position. And we don't have that, haven't since at least 2002.
It happened primarily because even the UK academic side had to realize that starving football to death (which they did) had a long time effect of losing hundreds of millions of dollars. Which it did.
I’m not saying in state base has no bearing at all but it matters as little now as it ever has. People are more transient than they’ve ever been and it will continue to increase. Somehow we are fortunate to be inside what has been the wealthiest conference to use as an attraction for players outside the conference footprint. In the conference footprint there are a ton of players and we have plenty to attract. Tenn has 5x the number of high level players as ky but they still go out of state for 3/4 of their class. Our recruiting budget needs to significantly improve so that we can go outside the footprint more easily. That part is on Barnhart. No reason to be down the pole in fb recruiting spend when our athletics budget is 7th in the conference. We shouldn’t be down at 11th or whatever even though we aren’t terribly far off from the other mid tier teams. But heck, for once overspend on it. I would rather overspend on that than the hc’s salary. Although it’s too late for that.
NIL is not the remedy for all. A&M would not have to change coaches if it was. NIL is about making good personnel decisions with it and being able to manage the ego portion of it. The transfer portal makes another group of people that historically couldn’t come here available to us. We just have to be good at selecting pieces and putting them together for a whole piece. Recruiting is beyond just having 4 stars. It’s being able to coach them and about getting ones that fit. Georgia isn’t Georgia just because they have dudes…it’s because they have dudes that are coached well and on the whole understand the game and accept what they are going into when they get there.
It also might be helpful if we actually ran things on both sides of the ball in a way that is more attractive to more recruits. That could be a start to getting more playmakers. But I’m not that down on recruiting being where we are on the national scene. Just because we’re behind other sec schools we’re close enough in all that jazz to be fine if you can coach and identify. We just need to start getting a playmaker or two or coaching in a way players can go make plays instead pf
Playing to not screw up. Our class isn’t going to compare to top 10 classes but the teams just ahead of us it isn’t much and certainly the entire formula of winning isn’t 100% recruiting. I just don’t sense stoops is a great ‘feel’ guy about anything. If a team of his can do well at his formula of stodgy football then they can be pretty good. But outside of that it’s a struggle and it’s getting tougher and tougher to play stodgy. The game is now a game of making plays on both sides of the ball. We haven’t played that way in any of his 12 years. He didn’t call games that way as a dc at fsu. We’ll see if that changes.
NIL is not the remedy for all. A&M would not have to change coaches if it was. NIL is about making good personnel decisions with it and being able to manage the ego portion of it. The transfer portal makes another group of people that historically couldn’t come here available to us. We just have to be good at selecting pieces and putting them together for a whole piece. Recruiting is beyond just having 4 stars. It’s being able to coach them and about getting ones that fit. Georgia isn’t Georgia just because they have dudes…it’s because they have dudes that are coached well and on the whole understand the game and accept what they are going into when they get there.
It also might be helpful if we actually ran things on both sides of the ball in a way that is more attractive to more recruits. That could be a start to getting more playmakers. But I’m not that down on recruiting being where we are on the national scene. Just because we’re behind other sec schools we’re close enough in all that jazz to be fine if you can coach and identify. We just need to start getting a playmaker or two or coaching in a way players can go make plays instead pf
Playing to not screw up. Our class isn’t going to compare to top 10 classes but the teams just ahead of us it isn’t much and certainly the entire formula of winning isn’t 100% recruiting. I just don’t sense stoops is a great ‘feel’ guy about anything. If a team of his can do well at his formula of stodgy football then they can be pretty good. But outside of that it’s a struggle and it’s getting tougher and tougher to play stodgy. The game is now a game of making plays on both sides of the ball. We haven’t played that way in any of his 12 years. He didn’t call games that way as a dc at fsu. We’ll see if that changes.
Probably correct on both statements, but isn't there some correlation in the DECADE our AD did NOTHING extra for facilities (and the TWO two win seasons) and the fact that nothing major has been done for football's facilities in the almost decade since we had to BORROW the money to reduce our seating by 6,000 seats. Now only ahead of powerhouse Vandy in the SEC.
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Fair point, but UL lost to a Pitt team that is no better, and potentially worse, than SC.
Fair point although I guess looking back and even at the time that was their ‘trap game’. We’ve lost trap games, challenge games, big games, games against duds when we were desperate for a win, etc. I’m anxious to see how the weekend plays out. It’s not beyond reason that we pull one off I just haven’t seen any sign of life for so long that it’s hard to buy into thinking it will happen. I also can’t remember outcoaching anyone on game day. We either feel physically prepared and it’s enough to win from the beginning or we just look befuddled all game long with no legit attempts at some other answer continuing to try the same things, throw to the same people, same types of throws etc that already don’t work. Which has happened an awful lot the last couple of years and many of stoops years frankly.
SECN talking heads said last Sat night that offensively UK needs to do better on first down. UK facing too many second and 10s or long. UK has done so poorly from the get-go of late it'll be interesting to see how they start vs U6.
People at UofL, Tennessee, Bama and Georgia are donating to their NIL in their state. That's why they are bringing in the top players.
Don't get mad at me because you are so broke you can't spot 10 bucks for your favorite team.
No shame in being broke...Been there done that in my 20s. Keep working hard like me and one day you will have an extra 10 bucks to spare.
Again...you are bitchin about fans paying for their team's NIL but that is just how it is done now. Put up or shut up.
Yeah the way we play we have no shot at overcoming bad early downs or getting behind on the scoreboard
Louisville is not bringing in top players. However they did hire the hometown hero and they are energized. They played a weak schedule and were able to gain confidence along the way. My hats off to them. But they are not bringing in top players
Well rhe stadium updates have been in place for 11 years now. We have made marrow in top handful of recruiting coordinator in college. Brad white is a top handful DC in college…same for Coen as OC. Stoops at 9M is top 10 paid head coach
if you’re making an argument investment in facilities, coaches or any aspect of program (besides NiL) is a reason for bad football the past two years…
I think your barking up the wrong tree
Maybe, but how about the first DECADE of our AD's reign, when the ZERO investment in football facilities led to the TWO OOC nobody win seasons. AND the FIVE years in a row without an easily attained bowl game? How about the loss of 15,000 season ticket holders and hundreds of millions in football revenue.
Name the football upgrades since we BORROWED the $120M for the upgrades for, plus paid the $60M bribe to academics.
The flood of money from the OTHER SEC programs that did support football is what rescued our Athletic Department, not a thing that our AD was responsible for.
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I respectfully disagree with this. In state recruiting is important from the relationships built at all the camps and visits. Geographic proximity means a lot! It’s was a lot of the incentive structure rests upon in my anecdotal experience.
KY prep football is better than it was 10-15 years ago for sure, but unfortunately it’s also better in TN, GA, OH, etc. LSU has it the best. Great instate recruiting and only one state school.
I don’t know what statement your attempting to make…what did or did not happen in rhe 90”s or earlier 2000”…..what difference is it making to why UK is losing to crap usc team? Or bad vsndy team at home last year?
We’ve gotten good recruiting classes , portal dudes we wanted etc. the distant past does not matter to the current dip stoops is having on the field
We are a full decade behind where we should be. We are still feeling the effects of that stupidity. How much has been invested in football facilities since we BORROWED the money for the stadium updates, how much in the last two years, let alone since we were FO"RCED to spend a little over a fourth of the amount A&M spent on their 100K stadium. With tacking on a $60M extortion fee to the actual $120M cost. And we now have the smallest number of seats in the SEC, except for that power house, Vandy.
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Dude..Ky is less then 1-3k seats to Arkansas, Ole Miss, mizzou, Miss st. …none of this matters and is an excuse for the crap show Stoops has put out
If you rhink stadium capacity matter../when we used to have 10k more…why were we losing more back then?
Yeah, anyone worried about seating capacity isn't dealing with the modern daybreality of attendance at sporting events across the nation.
Stoops has improved KY football, no doubt, brings in more talent, no argument from me in that end, but how much better are we really. Looking at the teams we have beaten since he has been here is pretty damn depressing. We look largely unprepared to play numerous games every single year. I’m tired of watching us lose games we should win because stoops is too big of a chicken shit to actually win the game itself and instead plays the not to lose garbage. By my assumptions I assume you are referring to our future 6-6 seasons and they aren’t baseless. No more baseless than we can’t get anyone better BS. We are 7-5 and soon to be 6-6 the last 2 years. If we beat UofL that would be great but still another 7-5 season with lackluster results most of the year. We are trending down, SEC is getting harder, it’s not rocket science. If we can’t take advantage of a down SEC with the talented roster we had this year then it doesn’t bode well for future seasons. We will get to see as stoops is going nowhere so we don’t have to guess, we will see it play out at least the next 2-3 seasons.
This map is wrong. The Ohio river is not the boundary.I dont think you know where the mason dixon line is so here.
I dont think you know where the mason dixon line is so here.
Fran Curci did it by cheating. Bear Bryant did it by paying players like everyone else did, but he left because it was easier to do it south of here.
So, if everyone else was paying players during the Bear regime, why was Bear winning more than the opponents?
Do you know Bear's record at Kentucky? He went to the sugar bowl once in 8 years. We weren't Alabama then. He was above 50% 3 out of 8 seasons in the SEC at Kentucky. You guys that are younger than me read shit on this board and believe it. He did have a winning record here, but other than 1950 we never really competed.
Even so, he won more games than his opponents to the tune of 60-23-5 overall and arguably won a national championship and also got to the Cotton and Orange bowls . My question is, how?
We are close enough to recruiting to the majority of the SEC, that superior coaching should let you beat the majority of the conference outside of UGA and Bama. Losing at home to Mizzu and UT and on the road to a bad South Carolina isn't going to get you great results.
Are you trying to compare stoops to bear bryant? With over half a century of distance between them no less? I wonder if Alabama fans compare Mike Shula to bear as well. What is the point? One is bear Bryant, the other is not
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He beat out of conference schools just like every one criticizes Stoops for doing. He left here because he saw that it was easier to do south of here. You say that he won more games than his opponents, how many games did Georgia, Ole Miss, Alabama, Georgia Tech, LSU and other southern schools win during his tenure at UK?
Everyone remembers the past being better than it was. I'm 87 and remember the Bear years. We really didn't compete then either. People want to act like we were great back then, but we were not.
I love Kentucky, football and I do believe the athletes that make the kids big money should be paid fair shares, but this whole NIL thing is ridiculous and a HUGE turnoff to me. I am sure I am partly sour grapes because we don't have an endless bag of cash to give these kids to switch colleges every year... The simple fact is it just doesn't seem like it is not professional anymore. It is basically sub par NFL with kids changing schools like underwear. Needs some moderation, it is the wild west.
Can we not agree that there needs to be some cap... perhaps salary cap per player and an overruling group that is worth a damn to oversee it. And I don't mean the NCAA because they have been suspect at best with their oversight.
Yes, I know we can say that the swim team, chess team, etc. will want their share of the pie.... but the sad fact is if you don't generate revenue you shouldn't have access to the same funds.
I don't know, this is just going to end up being a yearly pain in the butt and really damper the outlook for NOT JUST OUR SCHOOL but many competitive schools..
Can we not agree that there needs to be some cap... perhaps salary cap per player and an overruling group that is worth a damn to oversee it. And I don't mean the NCAA because they have been suspect at best with their oversight.
Yes, I know we can say that the swim team, chess team, etc. will want their share of the pie.... but the sad fact is if you don't generate revenue you shouldn't have access to the same funds.
I don't know, this is just going to end up being a yearly pain in the butt and really damper the outlook for NOT JUST OUR SCHOOL but many competitive schools..
It was because they treated him like crap around here. Fran wasn’t doing 1/2 of what goes on today in college football. Mumme cheated and couldn’t sniff anything above mediocrity.
It’s been done before and could be done again. It always has and always will come down to who the AD hires.
Stoops isn't going anywhere.
Barnie won't buy out calipari at a UK program with high expectations.
Why would UK and Barnie for one with little to no expectations?
As long as we go 6 and 6 or 7 and 5 most seasons it's a victory.
Lol, thats the line of confederate control/symptathy in the civil war. The picture you posted is from an article where the person who wrote it made that to show the confederate loyalty in the US during the civil war.
Mason-Dixon Line, originally the boundary between Maryland and Pennsylvania in the United States. In the pre-Civil War period it was regarded, together with the Ohio River, as the dividing line between slave states south of it and free-soil states north of it. The term Mason and Dixon Line was first used in congressional debates leading to the Missouri Compromise (1820). Today the Mason-Dixon Line still serves figuratively as the political and social dividing line between the North and the South, although it does not extend west of the Ohio River.
https://www.britannica.com/place/Mason-and-Dixon-Line
They did a lot of that prior to joining the B12. Not so much now. But WVU, like any team can have one great year now and again, but that’s not their general trend.
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You say UK has beat Michigan for a ton of recruits but then only provide one example (that may have not been a Michigan priority in that class)
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