Kennedy Assassination series on KET/PBS

[Tskware]

This week I watched the three part series on KET/PBS using a lot of private film that had not been shown before. Really fascinating to me, I was just three years old when it happened, actually almost the same age as John Jr (my parents always called him "John John" and told me my mom was pregnant at same time Jackie was with him). Did not know his third birthday was the day of his father's funeral. [as an aside, one of the worst decisions ever by UKAA was to play the Tennessee game on the day after the assassination, most games got cancelled, and everyone that was there said it was awful, like being at a funeral]

Could not believe how naive the SS and police were, to let a President ride through a major city in an open limo, then to let anyone and everyone know when and where they were taking Oswald, security was almost non existent, all the cops knew Jack Ruby and knew he carried a gun, yet he was at the police station almost immediately and no one thought to kick him out or at least take his weapon.

Looking for a good book to read anyway, what are some of the best re the assassination and aftermath? I know there are a zillion of them out there.

PS: Will also give a shout out to PBS for the five part series on "The Troubles" in Northern Ireland, called "Once Upon a Time in Ireland", also extremely well done and interesting, you quickly see that both sides had plenty of reasons to hate the guts of the other side.

 

[LeOtis Merriweather]

I recently finished “The Oswalds” by Paul Gregory. It’s a different perspective from someone who was sort of friends with the Oswalds about a year before the assassination. I found it interesting because Gregory spent significant time with Lee and Marina, even chauffeuring them around the Dallas-Ft. Worth area. Probably not one of the best regarding the assassination, just a different viewpoint.

 

[WildcatFan1982]

 

[vhcat70]

Old enough to remember it well. Watched Oswald get shot live. How many murders have you ever seen live on TV?

As for protection, people were way more trusting back then. The last 60 years have changed all that. There were no security checks to get on planes either. Anyone could walk up to the gate without ticket & you just showed ticket - no boarding pass - to get on. Friend's daughter traveled on a plane with another person's ticket. I thought the first boarding pass I saw was just another unnecessary complication.

 

[WildcatFan1982]

Old enough to remember it well. Watched Oswald get shot live. How many murders have you ever seen live on TV?

Kentucky vs. LSU in 96
United Staes vs Japan in the 2015 womens world up
Norm McDonald on Conan Obrien

 

[Tskware]

I recently finished “The Oswalds” by Paul Gregory. It’s a different perspective from someone who was sort of friends with the Oswalds about a year before the assassination. I found it interesting because Gregory spent significant time with Lee and Marina, even chauffeuring them around the Dallas-Ft. Worth area. Probably not one of the best regarding the assassination, just a different viewpoint.

Lee's wife is still alive and remarried and still lives in Texas per Wiki

 

[Glenn's take]

How many murders have you ever seen live on TV?

Not as many as I'd like.

 

[HymanKaplan]

I'll save you the time and effort. Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone. There WAS no conspiracy/second shooter/CIA involved etc.

My time, working in the intelligence community for the NSA taught me this, if nothing else: The government is AWFUL at keeping secrets.

 

[HymanKaplan]

Tskware - Case Closed by Gerald Posner is the definitive work on the JFK assasination and aftermath.

 

[WildcatFan1982]

I'll save you the time and effort. Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone. There WAS no conspiracy/second shooter/CIA involved etc.

My time, working in the intelligence community for the NSA taught me this, if nothing else: The government is AWFUL at keeping secrets.

Did Snowden ever say anything about JFK? I remember him saying something about having all that access and couldn't find anything about aliens.

Not that he is the be all and end all of anything, just curious.

 

[UKBrassowTipIN]

I'll save you the time and effort. Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone. There WAS no conspiracy/second shooter/CIA involved etc.

My time, working in the intelligence community for the NSA taught me this, if nothing else: The government is AWFUL at keeping secrets.

Exactly. Thats why the 9/11 conspiracies are always absurd...there would have to be so many ppl in on it. I mean Billl Clinton couldn't hide getting domed in the oval office yet ppl think this level of coordination could happen.

 

[WildcatFan1982]

Exactly. Thats why the 9/11 conspiracies are always absurd...there would have to be so many ppl in on it. I mean Billl Clinton couldn't hide getting domed in the oval office yet ppl think this level of coordination could happen.

No see they put it all out there for people to see. Like remember that fire in Maui? Well did you know that Mountain Dew has a flavor called Maui blast? DEW = Direct Energy Weapon!!! Also the Chief of Marketings secretary is a 33rd degree Freemason, or a Jesuit, or knights templar. ONe of those.

 

[RunninRichie]

If you wanna know what actually happened. Google operation JM/WAVE and operation Valkreye. It was a plan that anti-hitler germans were going to use on Hitler. The plan called to shoot Hitler out of his car when he was driving along berlin during a parade and blame it on a lone nut gunman. JM/WAVE was the codename for anti-castro cubans who were being trained by the CIA. They were taught this plan to kill Castro.

The plan called for them to shoot him as he rode in his open top jeep and blame it on a lone nut gunman. JFK promised these cuban teams trained by the CIA an ''umbrella'' of american fire support. He didn't come through on that promise and the Cubans got slaughtered during the bay of pigs invasion. So, the cubans, mad that JFK never promised that american air support and got their friends killed. Took the plan and training applied to them by the CIA and used it on JFK. Here's a pic of the team with a black umbrella (hinting at JFK's umbrella of fire support) on 11/22/64.



''I'm just a Patsy.'"-Oswald

jfkcountercoup.com

JM-WAVE: History

JM WAVE was the Central Intelligence Agency station in Florida. Located south of Miami in a heavily wooded 1,571-acre tract. The numerous buildings were said to belong to Zenith Technological Enterprises.

spartacus-educational.com

 

[Deeeefense]

Most compelling documentary I've watched on this subject is JFK: The Smoking Gun
It seems to be pretty well researched and was done by a detective familiar with investigating such incidents.

 

[downw/ball-lineD]

Not sure what to believe with respect to who shot Kennedy or Tippet. Have read and heard numerous compelling theories. Perhaps Hyman is correct. The simplest explanation is the correct one. All of that said, what I have always had trouble reconciling, are the vastly different observations between the Parkland Hospital staff and the autopsy doctors. Have no idea how medical professionals can have such drastically different takes on the wounds/nature of wounds/location of wounds/more bullet fragments found on Xrays than what is missing from the "magic bullet" etc.

Does that mean anything nefarious was afoot? Not sure. But, I have never been presented a satisfactory theory/answer to all of the Kennedy medical discrepancies/missing medical photos/etc. Don't recall Posner's book dealing with these questions much. I recall his book pointing out that Oswald tried to assassinate General Walker therefore Lee must have assassinated Kennedy. I think there was ballistic evidence to suggest that both bullets came from the Oswald rifle---which is compelling if you believe the rifle that was found was Oswald's.

I need to stop or I will type on this subject forever. Simply put. Not sure what I believe. Hyman, of course, makes a good point. If the government were involved, its hard to imagine the "secret" could be kept after all these years. Of course, when u are accused of being involved in a crime----and you are effectively allowed to investigate "yourself"---not sure its reasonable to expect a different outcome/determination. If what the recent SS agent has said is true, then I think it creates a number of problems for the official narrative (ie---if the magic bullet was found in the car behind Kennedy's head and then placed on a stretcher vs found/falling out of Connelly's leg---that does away with the magic bullet/single shooter theory).

 

[RunninRichie]

Not sure what to believe with respect to who shot Kennedy or Tippet. Have read and heard numerous compelling theories. Perhaps Hyman is correct. The simplest explanation is the correct one. All of that said, what I have always had trouble reconciling, are the vastly different observations between the Parkland Hospital staff and the autopsy doctors. Have no idea how medical professionals can have such drastically different takes on the wounds/nature of wounds/location of wounds/more bullet fragments found on Xrays than what is missing from the "magic bullet" etc.

Does that mean anything nefarious was afoot? Not sure. But, I have never been presented a satisfactory theory/answer to all of the Kennedy medical discrepancies/missing medical photos/etc. Don't recall Posner's book dealing with these questions much. I recall his book pointing out that Oswald tried to assassinate General Walker therefore Lee must have assassinated Kennedy. I think there was ballistic evidence to suggest that both bullets came from the Oswald rifle---which is compelling if you believe the rifle that was found was Oswald's.

I need to stop or I will type on this subject forever. Simply put. Not sure what I believe. Hyman, of course, makes a good point. If the government were involved, its hard to imagine the "secret" could be kept after all these years. Of course, when u are accused of being involved in a crime----and you are effectively allowed to investigate "yourself"---not sure its reasonable to expect a different outcome/determination. If what the recent SS agent has said is true, then I think it creates a number of problems for the official narrative (ie---if the magic bullet was found in the car behind Kennedy's head and then placed on a stretcher vs found/falling out of Connelly's leg---that does away with the magic bullet/single shooter theory).

A doctor at the hospital wsa thrown against a door by a SS agent and told to write down the bullet exited the front. Then you have all the cops running to the grassy knoll. And the numerous witenesses saying they saw a bald man in glasses on the floor oswald supposedly shot from.

 

[downw/ball-lineD]

A doctor at the hospital wsa thrown against a door by a SS agent and told to write down the bullet exited the front. Then you have all the cops running to the grassy knoll. And the numerous witenesses saying they saw a bald man in glasses on the floor oswald supposedly shot from.

Finding Mac Wallace's (a convicted murderer and Lyndon Johnson fixer) fingerprints on the boxes constituting the sniper's nest is pretty compelling evidence of a different shooter than Oswald. I think there were several eyewitnesses who described seeing a man who looked like Wallace in the TSD window as well. Wallace died in single car vehicle accident within a few years of the assassination.

 

[Deeeefense]

what I have always had trouble reconciling, are the vastly different observations between the Parkland Hospital staff and the autopsy doctors.

I think that, and the way the government handled the body post mortem, the testimony of others present at the autopsy etc. all adds up to a coverup. I asked myself what possible motive would the SS and other government officials have for a coverup? and the theory that George Hickey accidently shot Kenned makes all the pieces fit together. They wanted to protect Hickey and the agency.

 

[RunninRichie]

I think that, and the way the government handled the body post mortem, the testimony of others present at the autopsy etc. all adds up to a coverup. I asked myself what possible motive would the SS and other government officials have for a coverup? and the theory that George Hickey accidently shot Kenned makes all the pieces fit together. They wanted to protect Hickey and the agency.

Lol. You've got a long way to go.

 

[krazykats]

You can’t justify a reason to shoot Tippet unless you were guilty of something.

Whether it’s that he didn’t expect to get out of the depository alive and somehow thought maybe now he had a chance to get away with it, or he was indeed a patsy planted somewhere but then others performed the act and he was scared he was set up.

I think he did it because it’s absolutely mental gymnastics to figure anything else out, and if we are to believe our govt would just assassinate presidents that aren’t acting in a way we want then we should have done this multiple times over.

Beyond that, he absolutely had the training to pull this off.

What this new footage showed me was there are plenty of different people with the ability to record and snap pictures than I realized for the times. I’m shocked given the angle to the car and the depository no one could have possibly caught it on tape or witnessed it.

 

[_ukcat]

National Geographic has a 3 part Series about the event also...are they the same?

 

[Bill Derington]

JFK: One day in America, that’s the Nat Geo documentary, not sure if that’s the same as the PBS one, but it is excellent.

I’ve read that the 3 expended rounds were lined up in the depository. That seems odd , Oswald was mid 20’s, and he had just killed the President, but had the wits to collect the empty rounds and line them up?

Also, in the Nat Geo doc, at the Oswald press conference the reporter tells him he’s been charged with murdering Kennedy. Oswald’s reaction was weird, just caught my attention as I guess I had never seen that video prior.

 

[krazykats]

My parents told me that Oswald himself was the reason so many couldn’t buy that he did it. His demeanor was so off that it didn’t seem right, and the fact he was beat up by police and told he was brought in for shooting Tippit had they not brought up the JFK assassination I’m sure he was shocked.

Regardless he was the only Depository employee not accounted for when the police raided the building, and shot a cop.

That’s pretty damn telling.

 

[AustinTXCat]

4 pages, +/- 2.

 

[downw/ball-lineD]

My parents told me that Oswald himself was the reason so many couldn’t buy that he did it. His demeanor was so off that it didn’t seem right, and the fact he was beat up by police and told he was brought in for shooting Tippit had they not brought up the JFK assassination I’m sure he was shocked.

Regardless he was the only Depository employee not accounted for when the police raided the building, and shot a cop.

That’s pretty damn telling.

Not sure this is correct. Oswald was inconveniently "accounted for" in the SBD cafeteria calmly drinking a Coke within seconds of the shooting----by a police officer and the SBD manager. Further, several SBD employees who took the stairs of the SBD at or around the shooting never saw Oswald running up or down the stairs either. Finally, if I recall correctly, there was something wrong with the freight elevator that day---so Oswald could not have used the elevator to get to the cafeteria. Again, I'm not sure what I believe. However, I agree with those who say something was "off" with Oswald---although I don't know how anyone would act in that situation.

 

[Bill Derington]

Not sure this is correct. Oswald was inconveniently "accounted for" in the SBD cafeteria calmly drinking a Coke within seconds of the shooting----by a police officer and the SBD manager. Further, several SBD employees who took the stairs of the SBD at or around the shooting never saw Oswald running up or down the stairs either. Finally, if I recall correctly, there was something wrong with the freight elevator that day---so Oswald could not have used the elevator to get to the cafeteria. Again, I'm not sure what I believe. However, I agree with those who say something was "off" with Oswald---although I don't know how anyone would act in that situation.

I always thought Oswald did it, I still think it’s more likely than not he did. I just found the lined up casings unusual, if that’s true.

I agree that who knows how anyone would react upon finding out they had been charged with killing the POTUS, his initial response looked like disbelief and frustration to me.

 

[Tskware]

Tskware - Case Closed by Gerald Posner is the definitive work on the JFK assasination and aftermath.

I am reading the first part for free on Kindle, and it seems pretty thorough, think I may try to get through it although it is 600 pages or so (don't have the bandwidth I used to have. LOL)

 

[downw/ball-lineD]

^^^This is getting really deep in to the weeds on this stuff, but many believe Posner was paid by the CIA (indirectly of course) to write the book. TIFWIW. My recollection of the book was I felt like there was so much emphasis placed on the notion that BC Posner believed Oswald shot at Walker, then he must have shot at Kennedy. If I recall correctly, the whole notion Oswald shot at Walker was an assertion that was made long after Oswald's death. In fact, I think the only basis for the assertion Oswald shot at Walker was a "convenient" letter/confession found by Ruth Payne after Oswald was killed. Ruth Paine is believed to have had CIA ties and was Oswald's handler after Demorenschield (sp?) laid Oswald off to her. Presumably there was a ballistic match to bullets fired at both the Kennedy/Walker shooting. However, that "match" was supposedly made by the FBI/CIA, so......who the heck knows?

 

[parrott]

Just seems strange to me that in 1963, within 2 hours of the assassination and the shooting of Tippit, they have a description of the assailant, determined he had left the building, and had him arrested in 2 hours. That's w/o the benefit of today's technology (obviously). Can't make the arrest within that timeframe even today.

And then he's shot in police custody 2 days later. None of that is logical to me.

 

[PhDcat2018]

This week I watched the three part series on KET/PBS using a lot of private film that had not been shown before. Really fascinating to me, I was just three years old when it happened, actually almost the same age as John Jr (my parents always called him "John John" and told me my mom was pregnant at same time Jackie was with him). Did not know his third birthday was the day of his father's funeral. [as an aside, one of the worst decisions ever by UKAA was to play the Tennessee game on the day after the assassination, most games got cancelled, and everyone that was there said it was awful, like being at a funeral]

Could not believe how naive the SS and police were, to let a President ride through a major city in an open limo, then to let anyone and everyone know when and where they were taking Oswald, security was almost non existent, all the cops knew Jack Ruby and knew he carried a gun, yet he was at the police station almost immediately and no one thought to kick him out or at least take his weapon.

Looking for a good book to read anyway, what are some of the best re the assassination and aftermath? I know there are a zillion of them out there.

PS: Will also give a shout out to PBS for the five part series on "The Troubles" in Northern Ireland, called "Once Upon a Time in Ireland", also extremely well done and interesting, you quickly see that both sides had plenty of reasons to hate the guts of the other side.

Steven gillon wrote Kennedy assassination 24 hours after. About the hatred between the jfk people and lbj. Fascinating book about the transfer of power.

 

[UKWildcats1987]

Just seems strange to me that in 1963, within 2 hours of the assassination and the shooting of Tippit, they have a description of the assailant, determined he had left the building, and had him arrested in 2 hours. That's w/o the benefit of today's technology (obviously). Can't make the arrest within that timeframe even today.

And then he's shot in police custody 2 days later. None of that is logical to me.

Numerous people saw Oswald leaving the building. It was a general description. The president had been shot and the police were kinda making it a priority.

The moron also was walking down the street and made no effort to hide or disguise himself so Tippit stopped him just for him perhaps being close to the age and description. The moron panicked and killed the police officer in front of numerous witnesses and then proceeded to act weird in public at a store and the guy followed him to theater and called the cops. Cops arrest moron.

It's really not illogical at all if you have read the Warren report.

For books vincent bugliosi reclaiming history is the definitive book. It's like 2000 pages plus end notes though so most of you won't read it, same as the full warren report.

 

[parrott]

Yes it is. Read Bugliosi’s book on this and the Manson murders. His experience with Manson was first person, this not so much.

So people walking down sidewalks is compelling evidence? I’m not sure what to say.

Was he involved, I don’t know. Just say it seems convenient that he was captured within 2 hours. Yes, that is illogical.

 

[krazykats]

You all act as if he was just a couple blocks over when spotted.

You ever google where he was compared to the SBD? He got there in 30 minutes? Shew he was booking it.

 

[Nightwish84]

If the President of the United States is assassinated in a populated area in the middle of the afternoon and the alleged assailant doesn't have a detailed plan of escape, capturing that person within two hours doesn't seem that illogical. Someone can be a terrific shot but still a dunce.

I used to want to believe in all the theories because that makes what happened more exciting, in a twisted way. We still can't comprehend that one person can change the course of history forever. Anyway, JFK is getting a 4K release pretty soon so I can't wait to revisit that film. It's malarky but it's entertaining malarky.

 

[HymanKaplan]

Again, if you think the US government could cover up a deep rooted and extravagant conspiracy to assasinate a standing US president, well... I don't know what to tell you.

 

[LordEgg]

Thought the doc was pretty interesting. I liked the part where they were going to let the press interview Oswald (before he was shot). I can’t imagine.

 

[gollumcat]

This week I watched the three part series on KET/PBS using a lot of private film that had not been shown before. Really fascinating to me, I was just three years old when it happened, actually almost the same age as John Jr (my parents always called him "John John" and told me my mom was pregnant at same time Jackie was with him). Did not know his third birthday was the day of his father's funeral. [as an aside, one of the worst decisions ever by UKAA was to play the Tennessee game on the day after the assassination, most games got cancelled, and everyone that was there said it was awful, like being at a funeral]

Could not believe how naive the SS and police were, to let a President ride through a major city in an open limo, then to let anyone and everyone know when and where they were taking Oswald, security was almost non existent, all the cops knew Jack Ruby and knew he carried a gun, yet he was at the police station almost immediately and no one thought to kick him out or at least take his weapon.

Looking for a good book to read anyway, what are some of the best re the assassination and aftermath? I know there are a zillion of them out there.

PS: Will also give a shout out to PBS for the five part series on "The Troubles" in Northern Ireland, called "Once Upon a Time in Ireland", also extremely well done and interesting, you quickly see that both sides had plenty of reasons to hate the guts of the other side.

is that series on Northern Ireland showed on regular PBS channels , or only via Prime ?

 

[Tannerdad]

We’re never going to know for sure. Hell, it’s been 60 years.

But the same government can’t deliver your mail efficiently, so a complete coverup in 1963 seems way out there.

 

[krazykats]

Again, if you think the US government could cover up a deep rooted and extravagant conspiracy to assasinate a standing US president, well... I don't know what to tell you.

What if the act wasn’t the cover up. What if it was actually covering up the reasons why?

Oswald was clearly a Russian at some point, and deep rooted in a Cuban movement.

Both places that were absolutely enemies of one JFK.

What if they were trying to change our regime? Would we as a nation want a World War I stead of invading Viet Nam?

Just saying if America had any clue or hint of some kind of foreign country “attacking” our king piece like that, that easy, then what?

Of course that’s just speculation but that to me is the more likely cover up.

 

[downw/ball-lineD]

To ignore/dismiss the number of different factions that would benefit from Kennedy’s death is naive (mob, war machine, Cuban exiles, Johnson’s Texas henchmen).

I don’t know that our govt was involved in the assassination, but it had every motive in the world to control the narrative after the assassination. At a minimum, and maybe Hyman agrees with this, our govt was GROSSLY incompetent in protecting our president —-and therefore played a role in his death. Jmo