Kawhi Leonard to Toronto, Spurs get DeRozan

[LineSkiCat14]

The Spurs got a top 20 protected pick that turns into 2 second round picks after a year.

Ok, it's still picks. Picks that can be parlayed into higher picks. I fail to see how this was a good move for Toronto as we now know that 1. Kawhi is a head-case and 2. he wants LA.

DeRozen is no saint, but he's been better than Kawhi. Spurs were going to lose him anyways, now they get draft pick(s), Poeltl, and a great talent under contract.

 

[FactCheckerUSA]

Danny Green is a role player at best lol. Poetl has more potential. Raptors GM should be shamed endlessly

Yeah that's just ignorant. Green can defend multiple positions, has led all guards in blocked shots for multiple seasons now, and is the only player I've ever seen consistently stop Lebron James on the fast break (seriously, his fast break defense is one of the weirdest things I've ever seen a guy excel at in the NBA.) Plus he can get hot from 3pt range, and his expiring contract will be great trade bait at the trading deadline.

With the 1st round pick being protected, the Raptors won this trade easily.

 

[Cindog28]

 

[LineSkiCat14]

We're making an awful lot of assumptions on Leonard's health and mentality. I'm not sure Toronto is getting anything close to 2016 Leonard.

Leonard was not a top5 player last season.. probably not even top50 considering the damage he had done. We shouldn't assume that he's fine playing in snowy Toronto.

If he's 100% in it, this is good for Toronto.. Even though he's probably gone in a year, and this season is already lost with GSW loading up. But if hes a team cancer, which is very likely, this isn't just a bad trade, it's an awful one.

 

[BlueBlood66]

If Kawhi is 100% and commits to playing for the Raps this year... I would still say the Celtics are the favorite to come out of the East.

 

[MWes11]

It's a protected 1st round pick that becomes 2 second rounders after a year.

The Raptors won this trade.

I disagree.

 

[FactCheckerUSA]

Ok, it's still picks. Picks that can be parlayed into higher picks. I fail to see how this was a good move for Toronto as we now know that 1. Kawhi is a head-case and 2. he wants LA.

DeRozen is no saint, but he's been better than Kawhi. Spurs were going to lose him anyways, now they get draft pick(s), Poeltl, and a great talent under contract.

The Spurs get 2 or 3 years of a midrange jumpshooter on an overpriced contract who made it clear he doesn't want to be traded to San Antonio, Poeltl, and possibly 2 2nd round picks. Their team got significantly worse on defense and for 3-PT shooting in the process.

The Raptors on the other hand got out from under the bad Derozan contract, and now look like they can actually challenge in the east. They also have the option to trade Kawhi before the trade deadline. If Kawhi is all about the money, they can pull a sign-and-trade with the Lakers, giving Kawhi a max deal with his hometown team and likely getting young talent in return. Either way Toronto has a strong chance of keeping their 1st rounder and having a ton of salary cap space for 2019.

 

[FactCheckerUSA]

If Kawhi is 100% and commits to playing for the Raps this year... I would still say the Celtics are the favorite to come out of the East.

Celtics gotta stay healthy too. A couple key guys on that squad are injury prone. But yeah, Boston is the favorite on paper.

 

[UKWildcats#8]

Hate the Spurs. I can't believe they found a team dumb enough to give away a king's ransom for a guy who probably will either 1. sit out all year or 2. Leave for the Lakers or Clippers next year. Raptor's being the Raptors...I hate them for firing Casey so they deserve this fate. Spurs won't win jack in the west anyways but still hate them.

 

[FactCheckerUSA]

Hate the Spurs. I can't believe they found a team dumb enough to give away a king's ransom for a guy who probably will either 1. sit out all year or 2. Leave for the Lakers or Clippers next year. Raptor's being the Raptors...I hate them for firing Casey so they deserve this fate. Spurs won't win jack in the west anyways but still hate them.

You and I have a very different opinion on what a "King's Ransom" is.

 

[HoptownCat93]

Ok, it's still picks. Picks that can be parlayed into higher picks. I fail to see how this was a good move for Toronto as we now know that 1. Kawhi is a head-case and 2. he wants LA.

DeRozen is no saint, but he's been better than Kawhi. Spurs were going to lose him anyways, now they get draft pick(s), Poeltl, and a great talent under contract.

He is a good guy and loves Toronto...but they were paying him superstar money....and he got BENCHED in their most important series of the year because he could not score.

Losing to LeBron brings no shame...but he was supposed to be their BEST PLAYER and they could not even have him on the court when it mattered most.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

The Spurs get 2 or 3 years of a midrange jumpshooter on an overpriced contract who made it clear he doesn't want to be traded to San Antonio Poeltl, and possibly 2 2nd round picks. Their team got significantly worse on defense and for 3-PT shooting in the process.

The Raptors on the other hand got out from under the bad Derozan contract, and now look like they can actually challenge in the east. They also have the option to trade Kawhi before the trade deadline. If Kawhi is all about the money, they can pull a sign-and-trade with the Lakers, giving Kawhi a max deal with his hometown team and likely getting young talent in return. Either way Toronto has a string chance of keeping their 1st rounder and having a ton of salary cap space for 2019.

Still waiting for those "facts"

There's absolutely no way Spurs lost this. If you want to say the Raptors won, well.. fine lol. But Spurs were losing Kawhi no matter what, and they had no use for him mid-way through the season.

They got an All-star under HOF coach Pop, Poeltl and some picks... They would have gotten nothing a year from now.

There's a lot of IFs in that 2nd part. If all that goes to plan, then Raptors aren;t so bad. But instead, you're looking at a head-case Kahwi playing in a place that I've ACTUALLY confirmed that he doesn't want to be.

He wants to go to LA.. you think the Lakers are going to give up a ton for him? They have lots of leverage here.

 

[MWes11]

The Spurs get 2 or 3 years of a midrange jumpshooter on an overpriced contract who made it clear he doesn't want to be traded to San Antonio, Poeltl, and possibly 2 2nd round picks. Their team got significantly worse on defense and for 3-PT shooting in the process.

The Raptors on the other hand got out from under the bad Derozan contract, and now look like they can actually challenge in the east. They also have the option to trade Kawhi before the trade deadline. If Kawhi is all about the money, they can pull a sign-and-trade with the Lakers, giving Kawhi a max deal with his hometown team and likely getting young talent in return. Either way Toronto has a strong chance of keeping their 1st rounder and having a ton of salary cap space for 2019.

Why would the Lakers do a sign and trade when they can wait if out, give nothing to the raptors, and still sign their guy in the off season? Lakers will not be a threat in the West this upcoming year. They are going all in next year. It's pretty clear.

Also, no clue why the Raptors didn't dump Lowry. Dude isn't a top 5 PG in the league, and I could argue not a top 10 PG in the league, yet they are paying him 28 million this upcoming season.

 

[BlueBlood66]

Yea the Lakers signed all those guys to one year deals this year. They know they can’t compete in the West as of now. The big push will come near summer, at which point they won’t have to give anything up for Kawhi.

 

[FactCheckerUSA]

 

[UKUGA]

I give Toronto credit for taking a swing.

Good for them.

 

[FactCheckerUSA]

Yea the Lakers signed all those guys to one year deals this year. They know they can’t compete in the West as of now. The big push will come near summer, at which point they won’t have to give anything up for Kawhi.

Until about January, when classic Lebron starts getting angry about the Lakers being mediocre. Then he forces the front office to get a trade done so his Lakers can compete immediately.

I mean seriously, what makes anyone think that Lebron is going to be fine with wasting an entire season of his career? Dude has a history of forcing moves.

 

[BlueBlood66]

Until about January, when classic Lebron starts getting angry about the Lakers being mediocre. Then he forces the front office to get a trade done so his Lakers can compete immediately.

I mean seriously, what makes anyone think that Lebron is going to be fine with wasting an entire season of his career? Dude has a history of forcing moves.

Would you like to bet whether the Lakers trade for Kawhi or not this year?

 

[MWes11]

 

[UKWildcats#8]

You and I have a very different opinion on what a "King's Ransom" is.

It's by far the best deal they could get. No one was giving up anything for this guy right now. Lakers know they can wait and see until trade deadline (and now next off-season it appears) and so on.

 

[TM2013]

Yeah that's just ignorant. Green can defend multiple positions, has led all guards in blocked shots for multiple seasons now, and is the only player I've ever seen consistently stop Lebron James on the fast break (seriously, his fast break defense is one of the weirdest things I've ever seen a guy excel at in the NBA.) Plus he can get hot from 3pt range, and his expiring contract will be great trade bait at the trading deadline.

With the 1st round pick being protected, the Raptors won this trade easily.

Seriously? Green has averaged 8pts & 3.5rbs over past two seasons (39% FG). Good on defense, capable of making an open 3...yes. Aka a role player.

 

[floatingyou]

Just really dislike this trade from both teams stand points. Nothing of need was addressed except Kawhi got moved which he obviously wanted. But I doubt Toronto was in his top 5 choices

 

[Newcattitudes]

Now just wait... in a few months the Raptors will flip Kawhi (and possibly Green) to the Lakers for some young players.

Everyone knows Kawhi wants to go to LA and will not resign in Toronto. Lebron isn't going to want to waste this season, so he'll pressure management to get a deal done.

I believe that this is the exact plan. Toronto knows they cannot keep KL for more than a year. Pop wasn’t going to directly trade him to a Western Conference team so this how they get around all of this. Toronto will gets some good pieces from the Lakers in return for KL and Danny Green. Greens outside shooting will compliment Lebron’s penetrate and kick out game.

 

[MWes11]

I believe that this is the exact plan. Toronto knows they cannot keep KL for more than a year. Pop wasn’t going to directly trade him to a Western Conference team so this how they get around all of this. Toronto will gets some good pieces from the Lakers in return for KL and Danny Green. Greens outside shooting will compliment Lebron’s penetrate and kick out game.

No, Lakers aren't trading their young talent/draft picks to Toronto for Kawhi at the deadline when they can get him for nothing after the season. LeBron/Magic have a plan, and imo, it doesn't involve selling the farm this year. I believe they both know this year they can't compete with GSW even with Kawhi as a late addition. He will join the Lakers in 2019, along with another big addition, and they will go from there.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

Lakers won 37 games last season and have a rising talent in Josh Hart.. Pretty sure LA is winning 55+ with Lebron and the additions of Rondo, McGee and Lance.. minus Randle..

 

[mj2k10]

Has Kev checked in yet with a whine about how none of this belongs on the board because he hates the NBA? How "real" Kentucky fans don't care?

If he hasn't, just wanted to make sure everyone knows that Kev disapproves.

 

[KingOfBBN]

It's by far the best deal they could get. No one was giving up anything for this guy right now. Lakers know they can wait and see until trade deadline (and now next off-season it appears) and so on.

If you were Toronto, would you try to win the East with Kawhi this year only to watch him leave or could you try to gauge a team like the Lakers via trade who could make a move this year to compete with the Warriors?

 

[KingOfBBN]

Just really dislike this trade from both teams stand points. Nothing of need was addressed except Kawhi got moved which he obviously wanted. But I doubt Toronto was in his top 5 choices

I'd be very curious what the other offers were that the Spurs received.

 

[mj2k10]

I give Toronto credit for taking a swing.

Good for them.

I think that's exactly what it is, and it's a good time to do so.

IF they get a healthy, mostly motivated Kawhi, that's a big step up from DeRozan. Even with LeBron out of the East, their pre-trade roster seemed unlikely to be able to get past Boston and Philadelphia. Now, they might have a chance. Beyond that, they can offer Kawhi more money than anyone else on the slim chance he likes it there and things work out.

If they aren't as good as hoped and Kawhi walks as expected, they'll still have some decent young talent, and a ton of cap room opened by jettisoning DeRozan's contract. Good way to start a rebuild.

 

[floatingyou]

If you were Toronto, would you try to win the East with Kawhi this year only to watch him leave or could you try to gauge a team like the Lakers via trade who could make a move this year to compete with the Warriors?

Good question. Maybe a mixture of both. Winning the East this year is doable with maybe one more move. Maybe another wing that can score

 

[MWes11]

Good question. Maybe a mixture of both. Winning the East this year is doable with maybe one more move. Maybe another wing that can score

I still can't see it. Maybe I am underestimating Kawhi (I mean we haven't seen him play in a year, lol), but either way I don't think he comes back as the 2016 Kawhi. I think the Celtics and Sixers are still far superior to a Raptors team who second best player is Lowry (overrated PG going into his 14th season).

Hot take: I actually think the Celtics can compete with the Warriors/Rockets as the best team in the NBA. Roster is filled with talent at every position and they are extremely deep. With Kyrie and Hayward coming back, they give the Warriors a serious run for their money as the best team in basketball.

 

[UKRuppster]

Much better deal for Spurs as they get a legit all star, and serviceable big in Poetl, and a 1st round pick.

It's not awful in a vacuum for the Spurs given that they weren't going to be able to fix things with Kawhi, but I think it sort of delays the inevitable rebuild for them. Granted maybe this is the idea so Popovich doesn't have to spend his last 2, 3 years coaching what would be a bad/rebuilding team. They won't be awful, but a team led by DeRozan/LaMarcus Aldridge will only go so far. That's especially true in a loaded West.

Toronto; this only works out for them if they win the East (not seeing them beat the Warriors). I'd still rank Boston ahead of them, but we'll see.

 

[KentuckyMildCats]

Kawhi is a crybaby, smart move by both teams really since I believe raptors are hitting the reset button.

 

[Big_Blue79]

Toronto just accepting a rebuild at this point. No way Leonard stays after 1 year and you just gave up a 1st. Yikes.

A top 20 protected first. Meh.

Still.. if they wanted to rebuild, you try and get draft picks for derozan, not give them up, to take on a player who might be proving to be a bit of a head-case.

No one is giving up good picks and/or young players for eMar eRozan and his bad contract. He's a good player, but he's already 28, he doesn't play D, he gets substantially worse in the playoffs (not just small sample size, either, this is year after year), and he's hard to build around (no D, no 3). His biggest strength - shotmaking - doesn't scale well. At maybe $18m/year? Sure, why not? But $27.7m/year for the next 3 years is an overpay.

I think they could've got a lot more from another team who was willing to give up picks and young prospects for Derozan, especially at the trade deadline mid season to a contender who felt Derozan could take them to the next level. .

Unless you're running an NBA team, no team (sans maybe Sacramento) was offering young players and picks for DD.

You and I have a very different opinion on what a "King's Ransom" is.

Right? Most of these posters have no idea how to evaluate NBA contracts, or defense.

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Mods please ban this guy for 1 week for posting a Stephen A. Smith tweet. TIA.

 

[qwesley]

I still can't see it. Maybe I am underestimating Kawhi (I mean we haven't seen him play in a year, lol), but either way I don't think he comes back as the 2016 Kawhi. I think the Celtics and Sixers are still far superior to a Raptors team who second best player is Lowry (overrated PG going into his 14th season).

Hot take: I actually think the Celtics can compete with the Warriors/Rockets as the best team in the NBA. Roster is filled with talent at every position and they are extremely deep. With Kyrie and Hayward coming back, they give the Warriors a serious run for their money as the best team in basketball.

Hate the Celtics but they have a lot of pieces and picks to go get anything they need in the future. Ainge never overpays so they never got anywhere for Kawhi.

 

[BlueBlood66]

No one is giving up good picks and/or young players for eMar eRozan and his bad contract. He's a good player, but he's already 28, he doesn't play D, he gets substantially worse in the playoffs (not just small sample size, either, this is year after year), and he's hard to build around (no D, no 3). His biggest strength - shotmaking - doesn't scale well. At maybe $18m/year? Sure, why not? But $27.7m/year for the next 3 years is an overpay.

The question becomes who are the Raptors signing with that open cap space? I don’t really see any free agents going to Toronto next summer and being better than DeRozan.

 

[mj2k10]

The question becomes who are the Raptors signing with that open cap space? I don’t really see any free agents going to Toronto next summer and being better than DeRozan.

Probably not, but they will have a decent selection. Think about how many good to excellent players signed short-term deals this past round of free agency. Some of those guys are going to be willing to take Toronto's money next year, or the year after.

I think the Celtics have shown that you can do a solid rebuild without bottoming out completely (they got lucky with the Nets' heist, but even before those picks drifted up towards the top of the draft, they were doing OK), and that might be what Toronto is shooting for after this season.

I don't think Toronto has the type of fan base that will scream for titles, but they do have a fan base that will offer strong support as long as the team is solid. That might mean more motivation to remain middle-class, something many NBA teams are now trying to avoid (as a lot of GM's see it as more helpful to be awful for a few years and get picks near the top of the draft). 70 million in cap space, if used wisely, can easily keep a team in the playoffs if there's a decent foundation to build around.

 

[BlueBlood66]

Probably not, but they will have a decent selection. Think about how many good to excellent players signed short-term deals this past round of free agency. Some of those guys are going to be willing to take Toronto's money next year, or the year after.

I think the Celtics have shown that you can do a solid rebuild without bottoming out completely (they got lucky with the Nets' heist, but even before those picks drifted up towards the top of the draft, they were doing OK), and that might be what Toronto is shooting for after this season.

I don't think Toronto has the type of fan base that will scream for titles, but they do have a fan base that will offer strong support as long as the team is solid. That might mean more motivation to remain middle-class, something many NBA teams are now trying to avoid (as a lot of GM's see it as more helpful to be awful for a few years and get picks near the top of the draft). 70 million in cap space, if used wisely, can easily keep a team in the playoffs if there's a decent foundation to build around.

The Celtics have done that with picks. Both by drafting well and trading those picks. Toronto doesn’t have that option. They even gave up a pick.

 

[~Keyser Soze~]

I'm not sure what kinda shoe deal Kawhi thinks he gonna get.

 

[Deli owl]

Yeah that's just ignorant. Green can defend multiple positions, has led all guards in blocked shots for multiple seasons now, and is the only player I've ever seen consistently stop Lebron James on the fast break (seriously, his fast break defense is one of the weirdest things I've ever seen a guy excel at in the NBA.) Plus he can get hot from 3pt range, and his expiring contract will be great trade bait at the trading deadline.

With the 1st round pick being protected, the Raptors won this trade easily.

Uhhhh. No one has consistently stopped labron on fast breaks. You lost it there.