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Jon Scott question re Don Haskins

mdlUK.1

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Dec 23, 2002
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Several years ago during one of the many Coach Rupp threads, I mentioned that I had seen an article stating that Don Haskins had recanted his statement that Coach Rupp had said, no all black team could beat his all white team. I have never seen that article again nor heard anyone else repeat the story.

I think it was you that responded that you had also seen that story but were unable to find it or verify its validity. Have you been able to do so?

Thanks
 
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Jon Scott question re Don Haskins Reply
Several years ago during one of the many Coach Rupp threads, I mentioned that I had seen an article stating that Don Haskins had recanted his statement that Coach Rupp had said, no all black team could beat his all white team. I have never seen that article again nor heard anyone else repeat the story.

I think it was you that responded that you had also seen that story but were unable to find it or verify its validity. Have you been able to do so?

Thanks
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welcome. maybe you just dreamed it.
 
You think we both had the same dream?
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I never saw the article, but I remember it being discussed in the old UK newsgroup. This probably in the late '90s or early 2000s. The name of the magazine was mentioned, but I can't remember what it was. It seems like I remember it being said that Haskins admitted to telling his team that just to fire them up.
 
Originally posted by O'boro Cat:
I never saw the article, but I remember it being discussed in the old UK newsgroup. This probably in the late '90s or early 2000s. The name of the magazine was mentioned, but I can't remember what it was. It seems like I remember it being said that Haskins admitted to telling his team that just to fire them up.
Yeah, that is what happened.
 
Originally posted by mdlUK.1:
Several years ago during one of the many Coach Rupp threads, I mentioned that I had seen an article stating that Don Haskins had recanted his statement that Coach Rupp had said, no all black team could beat his all white team. I have never seen that article again nor heard anyone else repeat the story.

I think it was you that responded that you had also seen that story but were unable to find it or verify its validity. Have you been able to do so?

Thanks
Yes, I know exactly what you're referring to. Unfortunately I've never been able to locate that particular article, either online or in my files. I BELIEVE that I had printed it out and had a hard copy somewhere but have since lost it. It's one of those things that bothers me that I haven't been able to relocate it.

FWIW, to those who aren't familiar with this story, in an article by Curry Kirkpatrick in 1991, he stated that Don Haskins had heard that Rupp boasted something along the lines of 'no black team could beat my team', afterwards Haskins informed his team of this remark.

This led to an explosion of stories throughout the 1990's repeating this claim, and making various claims like Rupp had told Haskins directly, that Rupp had said it in a press conference, that Rupp had said it on the radio etc. CBS in a 2002 documentary on the game even tried to suggest it happened in a press conference and showed footage of a press conference, but no audio. (as a way to subliminally support the claim, even though news reports of the press conference don't mention this at all.) The only problem being that no one could actually find any reference of Rupp actually saying this, or of there being any mention whatsoever in the news media about Rupp making such a claim.

I know that people who had interviewed Don Haskins have asked him about this, and he never said that he heard it from Rupp. Ben Roberts interviewed Haskins and he told him that others had told him that, but he didn't believe Rupp had said it.

There was also the article you refer to where Haskins basically admitted that he made it up, but it was soon after that he stopped talking to the media about the issue altogether.

There was another newspaper writer who had made an earlier claim which I challenged, and he went back to Haskins to ask him about it but by that time Haskins would no longer talk about the issue.

I think that Haskins' last information about the supposed incident can be found in Dan Wetzel's book on Haskins where Haskins said "I also have to admit that I may have used race as a motivating factor. By this point the media was talking about it anyway and there was no way it hadn't entered my guys' thinking. Beside I was told Rupp had told some people privately that there was no way a black team would beat him. It got back to me that he was tellin' a joke, 'What does TWC stand for ? Two white coaches.' I was a little pissed off about that. I didn't know if that was true, but during one of my meetings with the team on the afternoon of the day of the championship game, I mentioned to the players I had heard some rumors that Rupp had said that he 'ain't losin' to a team of black players.' I was trying to fire up their asses."

To me this is Haskins' way of admitting that at that time in his career he was guilty of using the race card.

Whether Rupp actually made any of these comments privately, I don't know. But I am pretty certain that Rupp didn't say any such thing in a public forum, despite what sportswriters in the 1990s and 2000s have tried to claim.

From interviews with his players, Haskins definitely did relay this information (whether it was true or not) and thus used the information to try and gain an advantage.

Is it morally right for Haskins to play he race card in order to gain an advantage in a basketball game? Not IMO, but I can certainly understand a young coach in the biggest game of his career using it.
 
Originally posted by JPScott:


Originally posted by mdlUK.1:
Several years ago during one of the many Coach Rupp threads, I mentioned that I had seen an article stating that Don Haskins had recanted his statement that Coach Rupp had said, no all black team could beat his all white team. I have never seen that article again nor heard anyone else repeat the story.

I think it was you that responded that you had also seen that story but were unable to find it or verify its validity. Have you been able to do so?

Thanks
Yes, I know exactly what you're referring to. Unfortunately I've never been able to locate that particular article, either online or in my files. I BELIEVE that I had printed it out and had a hard copy somewhere but have since lost it. It's one of those things that bothers me that I haven't been able to relocate it.

FWIW, to those who aren't familiar with this story, in an article by Curry Kirkpatrick in 1991, he stated that Don Haskins had heard that Rupp boasted something along the lines of 'no black team could beat my team', afterwards Haskins informed his team of this remark.

This led to an explosion of stories throughout the 1990's repeating this claim, and making various claims like Rupp had told Haskins directly, that Rupp had said it in a press conference, that Rupp had said it on the radio etc. CBS in a 2002 documentary on the game even tried to suggest it happened in a press conference and showed footage of a press conference, but no audio. (as a way to subliminally support the claim, even though news reports of the press conference don't mention this at all.) The only problem being that no one could actually find any reference of Rupp actually saying this, or of there being any mention whatsoever in the news media about Rupp making such a claim.

I know that people who had interviewed Don Haskins have asked him about this, and he never said that he heard it from Rupp. Ben Roberts interviewed Haskins and he told him that others had told him that, but he didn't believe Rupp had said it.

There was also the article you refer to where Haskins basically admitted that he made it up, but it was soon after that he stopped talking to the media about the issue altogether.

There was another newspaper writer who had made an earlier claim which I challenged, and he went back to Haskins to ask him about it but by that time Haskins would no longer talk about the issue.

I think that Haskins' last information about the supposed incident can be found in Dan Wetzel's book on Haskins where Haskins said "I also have to admit that I may have used race as a motivating factor. By this point the media was talking about it anyway and there was no way it hadn't entered my guys' thinking. Beside I was told Rupp had told some people privately that there was no way a black team would beat him. It got back to me that he was tellin' a joke, 'What does TWC stand for ? Two white coaches.' I was a little pissed off about that. I didn't know if that was true, but during one of my meetings with the team on the afternoon of the day of the championship game, I mentioned to the players I had heard some rumors that Rupp had said that he 'ain't losin' to a team of black players.' I was trying to fire up their asses."

To me this is Haskins' way of admitting that at that time in his career he was guilty of using the race card.

Whether Rupp actually made any of these comments privately, I don't know. But I am pretty certain that Rupp didn't say any such thing in a public forum, despite what sportswriters in the 1990s and 2000s have tried to claim.

From interviews with his players, Haskins definitely did relay this information (whether it was true or not) and thus used the information to try and gain an advantage.

Is it morally right for Haskins to play he race card in order to gain an advantage in a basketball game? Not IMO, but I can certainly understand a young coach in the biggest game of his career using it.
So at this point we have a bunch of random yahoos who have no proof yapping about Rupp being a racist and Frank Deford's article? Is that about right?
 
In order to believe that Coach Rupp would make such an utterance, you'd have to also believe that he was:

a) a poor evaluator of basketball talent (since Texas Western was bigger than his team on the interior and quicker/more athletic on the perimeter), and

b) naive enough to think his words wouldn't be used by the opposing coach to motivate his team, and

c) stupid enough to think he wouldn't be pilloried by the press!

Anyone even remotely familiar with the man knows he was none of those things... the polar opposite, in fact.





This post was edited on 1/17 3:15 PM by Rolf Russman
 
This whole Rupp was a racist is totally out of character for the man. It didn't start until he was in his grave. The University of Kentucky integrated before any SEC school. Before Brown v. Board of Education in 1954, Kentucky was playing against teams with black players. When Rupp decided to take his team national in the 1930's he knew they would be playing against teams with blacks. Florida, Miss State, Alabama and all the rest of the Deep South schools did do that until the 1960's.

It makes a nice Hollywood story and can be fed by the media who has no interest in telling the truth. For some reason every school in the South gets a pass for segregation except Kentucky and Kentucky was the first to integrate and Rupp was the first SEC coach to come out in the newspaper and say he was going to recruit blacks. He did that years before Texas Western in 1966.

I know because I clipped out the newspaper article and still have it
 
Originally posted by martinsm30:

So at this point we have a bunch of random yahoos who have no proof yapping about Rupp being a racist and Frank Deford's article? Is that about right?
I don't know. There's been a ton of stuff said and written through the years. Some of it factual, a lot of it not. The critics haven't done themselves any favors IMO by assuming things they heard are true without really knowing one way or the other.

FWIW, the only thing that's clear to me is that Rupp has been made the scape-goat, for a lot of people.

One analogy I can think of is a memorable scene from the movie "Roger and Me". When people who have seen the movie refer to the "Rabbit Lady" most people remember her skinning a rabbit which she was selling for "Pets or Meat".


The scene that I always remember from that however was when she was showing Michael Moore he rabbits and she had them squeezed into a small cage 10 at a time. One of the rabbits was dirty and yellow and she talked about how all the other rabbits will pick out a rabbit in the cage and basically piss on them, using the unlucky rabbit as their urinal.

I checked Youtube and the following I think starts to show the scene in question, but doesn't show the full thing I'm referring to.

Youtube Clip from Roger & Me: Rabbit Lady

Anyway, that's kind of how I view a lot of these people who go out of their way to criticize Rupp. He's a convenient scapegoat for them so they use it to the fullest.

To me they're ultimately trying to piss in one direction rather than admit that EVERY single institution in the country at one point had to deal with integration in some way. And at every single institution there were people who were heroes who helped make things better and there were others who were villains or at the very least made things harder than they needed to be. Most of those stories are unknown or forgotten because very few people talk about or discuss it, much less acknowledge it. Far easier for them to point fingers at their scape-goat rather than to look in the mirror, at their own schools.
 
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