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Joel Berry returning to UNC

Wow that was quick. Don't know what to make of that. Maybe he's just trying to get away from Pinson.
 
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Good college player, probably not NBA caliber.

The thing is - Berry, Meeks and Jackson are on the same level as Bam, Fox and Monk in college but we will look back 5-7 years from now and say, how did we lose to those guys because UK's players will be in NBA and only Jackson from UNC will be there.

That's the issue. Everyone always says how do you lose with that talent but they are judging it on players that are much better and more developed than when they were in college. Lots of good college teams that have equal "college talent" as our guys.
 
Good college player, probably not NBA caliber.

The thing is - Berry, Meeks and Jackson are on the same level as Bam, Fox and Monk in college but we will look back 5-7 years from now and say, how did we lose to those guys because UK's players will be in NBA and only Jackson from UNC will be there.

That's the issue. Everyone always says how do you lose with that talent but they are judging it on players that are much better and more developed than when they were in college. Lots of good college teams that have equal "college talent" as our guys.

While it's true, it's no excuse. As far as our program goes, that means they had better players than us that year. A few of the most important guys on UNC last year were a 4 star and a 3 star. But according to half or more of this board those guys cannot win titles and are even laughed at while we count stars in recruiting classes.

I understand the other side of it, but it is what it is. We really should be recruiting needs and skills instead of strictly talent and stars, but it appears we just look at a top 25 list and go fishing. We need a bit more creativity. Hopefully with the recruitments of guys like Baker Cal is somewhat waking up to it, but hell if he plays half decent he'll leave too for the second round anyway I guess.

The beast is out of its cage right now. Hopefully we can start hitting the top 5 as hard as we did 5 years ago because that's what we have to have. People laugh at that but I think it's valid. For Cals system to work he's going to need 2 top 5 players from each class AND we need them to live up to the hype; otherwise we are too young and not talented enough to overcome it.
 
Joel Berry at UK leaves after his sophomore year most likely and DEFINITELY after winning the title as a junior. He's perceived as a failure if he accomplishes what he did and has to return for a senior year.

Real talk.

Like this post.
 
Good college player, probably not NBA caliber.

The thing is - Berry, Meeks and Jackson are on the same level as Bam, Fox and Monk in college but we will look back 5-7 years from now and say, how did we lose to those guys because UK's players will be in NBA and only Jackson from UNC will be there.

That's the issue. Everyone always says how do you lose with that talent but they are judging it on players that are much better and more developed than when they were in college. Lots of good college teams that have equal "college talent" as our guys.

How do we lose with better talent? Because it's a tournament of single elimination games. Anything can happen! That's what makes it so great. Only one fan base gets to revel in the win at the end and 63 are left asking, how did that happen?
 
He's not an NBA player.
Doesn't stop some of our guys from leaving.

Nothing wrong with a guy who enjoys college, playing basketball for his school, and enjoying being young, and when his senior year is over, he will still be young, and he can start making money playing basketball some where if he wants. Or, he could decide to get a career and move on.
 
While it's true, it's no excuse. As far as our program goes, that means they had better players than us that year. A few of the most important guys on UNC last year were a 4 star and a 3 star. But according to half or more of this board those guys cannot win titles and are even laughed at while we count stars in recruiting classes.

I understand the other side of it, but it is what it is. We really should be recruiting needs and skills instead of strictly talent and stars, but it appears we just look at a top 25 list and go fishing. We need a bit more creativity. Hopefully with the recruitments of guys like Baker Cal is somewhat waking up to it, but hell if he plays half decent he'll leave too for the second round anyway I guess.

The beast is out of its cage right now. Hopefully we can start hitting the top 5 as hard as we did 5 years ago because that's what we have to have. People laugh at that but I think it's valid. For Cals system to work he's going to need 2 top 5 players from each class AND we need them to live up to the hype; otherwise we are too young and not talented enough to overcome it.

You actually answered your own complaint with your reply. Cal has consistently tried to get kids who would likely be multi year players and they either transfer or go pro. That's why Cal continually loads up on the stars year after year. He never knows what his roster will look like from year to year. It's why I give Cal a pass on that. It's the culture and stereotype that is attached to UK and no one else. Cal's only real hope for 4 year players is the state keeps producing quality talent of kids who were born UK fans and want to be here for 4 years like Miller, Willis and Hawkins.
 
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Him declaring and then removing his name a day later saying "no reason to rush leaving school" is the biggest horse shit PR move from UNC to look good in the face of the academic scandal.

What a sorry ass phony that school and Roy are.
 
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Huge for UNC no matter how you look at it.
I'm actually surprised since they won the championship this past yr and with him having injury troubles.
 
Good college player, probably not NBA caliber.

The thing is - Berry, Meeks and Jackson are on the same level as Bam, Fox and Monk in college but we will look back 5-7 years from now and say, how did we lose to those guys because UK's players will be in NBA and only Jackson from UNC will be there.

That's the issue. Everyone always says how do you lose with that talent but they are judging it on players that are much better and more developed than when they were in college. Lots of good college teams that have equal "college talent" as our guys.

Totally agree. Look at the Wisconsin game. To be honest, we were't heads and shoulders better than them at the time. Let's say we were to play again today, no doubt we would crush them by at least 20. Just think of the development that Booker and Towns alone have had in the past two years whereas Kaminsky and Decker have pretty much maxed out their potential 2 years ago.
 
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He should have a doctorate by now at UNCheat, so if all else fails he can always get a teaching job some place where they speak fake-Swahili.
 
Guys, we lost by one basket to the eventual national champion. We get fair officiating in the first half and we could have won championship and all be talking about how great Cal's system is.

Cal and his system are great. Just enjoy it. We are in the hunt for the top talent and a championship every year.
 
Guys, we lost by one basket to the eventual national champion. We get fair officiating in the first half and we could have won championship and all be talking about how great Cal's system is.

Cal and his system are great. Just enjoy it. We are in the hunt for the top talent and a championship every year.
Problem is Cal likes pushing the NCAA's buttons so we better be that much better than our opponent or we will continually get screwed like we did against UNC. The fix was on and everyone knew it watching the first half of that game. It will only get worse from here on out as we've become an NBA farm team and the perception is that we don't care about education (Ironic I know because of the UNC scandal but they're immune apparently) and the NCAA hates us and Cal for it.
 
I know. And I hate the culture we have created. They have an All American returning AFTER winning a national title and here we are losing a guy who averaged two points a game. It's maddening.

Guys come to UK EXPECTING to go to the draft after 1 year...whether it's warranted or not

So when a marginal guy sees his teammates going, he goes too...doesn't matter if he's good enough or not...the attitude I think is "I'm at UK and this is how things roll here"...all the while forgetting the possibility that they might not be good enough now or maybe ever (to go lotto or first round NBA that is)
 
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While it's true, it's no excuse. As far as our program goes, that means they had better players than us that year. A few of the most important guys on UNC last year were a 4 star and a 3 star. But according to half or more of this board those guys cannot win titles and are even laughed at while we count stars in recruiting classes.

I understand the other side of it, but it is what it is. We really should be recruiting needs and skills instead of strictly talent and stars, but it appears we just look at a top 25 list and go fishing. We need a bit more creativity. Hopefully with the recruitments of guys like Baker Cal is somewhat waking up to it, but hell if he plays half decent he'll leave too for the second round anyway I guess.

The beast is out of its cage right now. Hopefully we can start hitting the top 5 as hard as we did 5 years ago because that's what we have to have. People laugh at that but I think it's valid. For Cals system to work he's going to need 2 top 5 players from each class AND we need them to live up to the hype; otherwise we are too young and not talented enough to overcome it.
You are correct,Cal has morphed into selling the NBA more than selling UK.Instead of "UK isn't for everybody" his slogan might as well be "UK isn't for anybody but the NBA is for everybody"

Cal's teams can be in the mix for a national championship most every year but are less likely to win it when the chips are down because of eternal youth.30+ win seasons are great and we play an entertaining type of basketball but come late tournament time our youth catches up with us and the NCAA doesn't want us to win so we get seeding and placement draws like we did this year.If you throw in a Higgins or two we are good for a few games of great T V ratings but then they have no more use for us.
 
I think he just recently watched Dumb and Dumber and realized there was "A CHANCE" he might get drafted. Heck, I buy a lottery ticket when it gets to 400 million or so
 
You are correct,Cal has morphed into selling the NBA more than selling UK.Instead of "UK isn't for everybody" his slogan might as well be "UK isn't for anybody but the NBA is for everybody"

Cal's teams can be in the mix for a national championship most every year but are less likely to win it when the chips are down because of eternal youth.

Less likely to win than whom? Only two teams have more than 1 title since Cal come to UK. And Duke's 2010 title was not a OAD team at all. So, I guess UConn is the team to emulate?
 
While it's true, it's no excuse. As far as our program goes, that means they had better players than us that year. A few of the most important guys on UNC last year were a 4 star and a 3 star. But according to half or more of this board those guys cannot win titles and are even laughed at while we count stars in recruiting classes.

I understand the other side of it, but it is what it is. We really should be recruiting needs and skills instead of strictly talent and stars, but it appears we just look at a top 25 list and go fishing. We need a bit more creativity. Hopefully with the recruitments of guys like Baker Cal is somewhat waking up to it, but hell if he plays half decent he'll leave too for the second round anyway I guess.

The beast is out of its cage right now. Hopefully we can start hitting the top 5 as hard as we did 5 years ago because that's what we have to have. People laugh at that but I think it's valid. For Cals system to work he's going to need 2 top 5 players from each class AND we need them to live up to the hype; otherwise we are too young and not talented enough to overcome it.

People just fail to realize two things concerning championships. One is that there are multiple ways to build a roster, none of them are fool proof, and all of them have flaws. UNC and UK are prime examples of teams that do it the best at each extreme. UNC gets really talented players that they keep around for 3-4 years and try to develop them. UK (specifically Cal) goes after the hottest talent in the incoming class and sends them on their way as soon as they can get drafted. In 2012, it worked out for UK. In 2017, it worked out for UNC. Both years these two teams were 2 of the top 5 teams. UNC had built an amazing team getting guys to return in 2012, only to see UK use more talented Freshman to win the title. UK had the #1 recruiting class in 2016, only to see veteran UNC team win the title.Building a roster with 3-4 year guys means you have to hope those guys develop enough to hide their issues over the years. Building a roster with "one and done" guys means you have to hope at least most of those guys live up to the hype. No assurances either way.

The second thing is that winning a championship involves a whole lot more than just being talented. I would argue matchups and officiating are two things that are at least as important as the roster, and maybe more important. Every team has weaknesses, and matchups can determine whether those weaknesses can be exposed or not. The tournament is not a round-robin, where the best record wins at the end. All it takes is one bad matchup, and you are done.

As another poster said, it took 3-4 years for Berry, Jackson, and Meeks to develop into the players they were. Yet UK had 3 freshman who were at least on par if not better than them. The first game was all about the stars, and they showed out, and UK won on a last second shot. The second meeting was all about the supporting cast (which UNC held an advantage), and UNC won on a last second shot, by a member of that supporting cast.
 
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Less likely to win than whom? Only two teams have more than 1 title since Cal come to UK. And Duke's 2010 title was not a OAD team at all. So, I guess UConn is the team to emulate?
We have one title since Cal has been here,somebody else won the rest of them.We probably had more talent than most of the teams that won.I don't think we should emulate anyone.If you read the rest of my post that you quoted I pointed out both positive and negative aspects of what we have become since the first years of Cal.There is no 100% right or wrong in recruiting and there is no free lunch whatever Cal does comes with an upside and a down side.
 
You are correct,Cal has morphed into selling the NBA more than selling UK.Instead of "UK isn't for everybody" his slogan might as well be "UK isn't for anybody but the NBA is for everybody"

Cal's teams can be in the mix for a national championship most every year but are less likely to win it when the chips are down because of eternal youth.30+ win seasons are great and we play an entertaining type of basketball but come late tournament time our youth catches up with us and the NCAA doesn't want us to win so we get seeding and placement draws like we did this year.If you throw in a Higgins or two we are good for a few games of great T V ratings but then they have no more use for us.

We have one title since Cal has been here,somebody else won the rest of them.We probably had more talent than most of the teams that won.I don't think we should emulate anyone.If you read the rest of my post that you quoted I pointed out both positive and negative aspects of what we have become since the first years of Cal.There is no 100% right or wrong in recruiting and there is no free lunch whatever Cal does comes with an upside and a down side.

I agree there are upsides and downfalls with every approach, the lone issue I have is with the insistence that there is some inevitable late game issue with young players. People put all of this importance on experience that has literally nothing to back those statements up. I forget the exact stat, but Cal at UK has won like 70% of his tournament games decided by 5 points or less, far better than every coach, yet continually has the youngest team year after year. Most people will use games like UNC this year, and Wisconsin in 2015 as examples of why experience matters. Yet seem to forget that a team that started 5 freshman won 4 consecutive games by 5 points or less, all against teams that went to the final four either that year or the year before, and all against teams that were playing with a lot more experience. Did that experience help them?

The games come down to who makes plays down the stretch, and who doesn't. While experience may be a small part of that, talent and aggressiveness are much bigger factors. People tend to look for simple reasons as to why we lose the games we do, when in fact the reasons are much more complex than most want to give it credit for.
 
I agree there are upsides and downfalls with every approach, the lone issue I have is with the insistence that there is some inevitable late game issue with young players. People put all of this importance on experience that has literally nothing to back those statements up. I forget the exact stat, but Cal at UK has won like 70% of his tournament games decided by 5 points or less, far better than every coach, yet continually has the youngest team year after year. Most people will use games like UNC this year, and Wisconsin in 2015 as examples of why experience matters. Yet seem to forget that a team that started 5 freshman won 4 consecutive games by 5 points or less, all against teams that went to the final four either that year or the year before, and all against teams that were playing with a lot more experience. Did that experience help them?

The games come down to who makes plays down the stretch, and who doesn't. While experience may be a small part of that, talent and aggressiveness are much bigger factors. People tend to look for simple reasons as to why we lose the games we do, when in fact the reasons are much more complex than most want to give it credit for.
You make a valid point,there is no metric to measure the value of experience vs talent.One could argue that Cal has the most talented players and therefore should win most close games,or veteran/experienced players have more skin in the game(like UNC this year)It is kinda like the Farmers Insurance commercial "We know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two"

As to the question you pose about experience helping them,maybe it gave them a chance to win a game that they should not have had a chance to win?
 
yeah i really wish we had shittier guards who stayed longer, like berry, instead of fox or ulis

sure
He's got back to back championship games and a ring to go with them,I don't like the cheating bastards at UNC any more than anyone else here but he has the championship and is still there,he rates some credit for that and there is not much way around it.
 
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