Jay Bilas: NCAA officials ‘breaking their own rules’ to punish UNC
- Thread starter rick64
- Start date
I respect Jay Bilas. Perhaps he has better knowledge of NCAA regulations than even the NCAA.... I doubt it, but maybe. But just a quick run through the bylaws and you get a couple provisions that would not allow fraudulent classes. Most notably bylaw 10.1(b)
"10.1 UNETHICAL CONDUCT Unethical conduct by a prospective or enrolled student-athlete or a current or former institutional staff member (e.g., coach, professor, tutor, teaching assistant, student manager, student trainer) may include, but is not limited to, the following: (Revised: 1/10/90, 1/9/96, 2/22/01)
(a) Refusal to furnish information relevant to an investigation of a possible violation of an NCAA regulation when requested to do so by the NCAA or the individual’s institution;
(b) Knowing involvement in arranging for fraudulent academic credit or false transcripts for a prospective or an enrolled student-athlete;"
"10.1 UNETHICAL CONDUCT Unethical conduct by a prospective or enrolled student-athlete or a current or former institutional staff member (e.g., coach, professor, tutor, teaching assistant, student manager, student trainer) may include, but is not limited to, the following: (Revised: 1/10/90, 1/9/96, 2/22/01)
(a) Refusal to furnish information relevant to an investigation of a possible violation of an NCAA regulation when requested to do so by the NCAA or the individual’s institution;
(b) Knowing involvement in arranging for fraudulent academic credit or false transcripts for a prospective or an enrolled student-athlete;"
I wish I could man. But apparently UNC has already disabled the link too. The rabbit hole goes deep in this.
Some truth in what you say. i don't agree with him on this.
I've never been able to stomach the guy from his beginning on tv. maybe because he's a dookie. i've always considered him a shill for the acc and a condescending no it all.
Maybe you shouldn't scold "most of the vocal posters on this board."
I am an adult and i can hate someone even if i agree with them.
This is within their rules:
In addition, the report states that several counselors within the Office of Academic Support Program for Student Athletes not only had direct knowledge of the shadow curriculum but also, in some cases, steered students toward these courses in order to help them secure academic eligibility.
a. I was just arguing the single abstract point that they need lock-down proof of *thing* to punish for *thing*. That doesn't match the historical precedent.
b. Doesn't what I said at all. Regardless of where the line is drawn, it's just as arbitrary as any other line. Once you've jumped in to the world of okaying classes, you can dance around, equivocate, release a 5 page PR statement, but the point is, you're in the muck. All that's required then is somebody ballsy enough to publicly call them on it.
I thought we were soon to be free and clear of the insanity when Vitale retires, but this idiot Bilas is gonna take the torch and run with it for the next 25 years.
So NCAA isn't supposed to cover academic infractions...then what's the point of their existence? They can strip a school of 38 wins due to academic issue from high school but they can't legislate academic issues within their own members? And then why do schools constantly get hammered for academic issues? Remember Notre Dame just got hit with 2 years being removed because a trainer completed class work for 2 players...sounds a bit familiar to UNC right. This isn't something new with the NCAA and this isn't them going rogue to get UNC. If they wanted to get them, they would. They are letting UNC dictate how this goes. The NCAA can act swiftly like they did for Penn State, SMU, Ohio State, and Notre Dame or they can go slow like they did with Miami and UNC.
This article mentions dozens of schools dealing with this epidemic over the last decade. This isn't new.
https://www.insidehighered.com/news...mitted-academic-fraud-last-decade-more-likely
If UNC gets nothing, then Louisville, Penn State, Ohio State, Notre Dame, USC, Memphis, Syracuse, Michigan etc. should all start recognizing their banners, wins, accomplishments again. Dare the NCAA to come back after them.
I hate NCAA rules, but member institutions must abide by them and you can't make up an entire curriculum of fake and/or paper classes completed by tutors to keep players eligible. How this isn't an open and shut case is beyond me.
This article mentions dozens of schools dealing with this epidemic over the last decade. This isn't new.
https://www.insidehighered.com/news...mitted-academic-fraud-last-decade-more-likely
If UNC gets nothing, then Louisville, Penn State, Ohio State, Notre Dame, USC, Memphis, Syracuse, Michigan etc. should all start recognizing their banners, wins, accomplishments again. Dare the NCAA to come back after them.
I hate NCAA rules, but member institutions must abide by them and you can't make up an entire curriculum of fake and/or paper classes completed by tutors to keep players eligible. How this isn't an open and shut case is beyond me.
Hey Weatherbird: BOOM! there's your violations of NCAA bylaws.
YES!!! That is what nobody seems to grasp or care to bring to light because it goes against their argument.
This isn't about whether the NCAA has jurisdiction in determining what constitutes legitimate vs. non-legitimate curriculum. Those who worry about that are missing the point.
As has been stated, the first issue is about whether or not the university created these classes for the express purpose of keeping athletes eligible (they did). The second issue is whether or not athletes were falsely given credit for work they didn't do or that someone else did for them (they were.)
The "jurisdiction" argument is a classic straw man and an intentional distraction from the real issues.
As has been stated, the first issue is about whether or not the university created these classes for the express purpose of keeping athletes eligible (they did). The second issue is whether or not athletes were falsely given credit for work they didn't do or that someone else did for them (they were.)
The "jurisdiction" argument is a classic straw man and an intentional distraction from the real issues.
Yes we all know your sole purpose in life is to keep rafter posters in line. Well done.
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your post is a perfect example...so is his response to the UL scandal
He retains a sort of "plausible deniability"
I honestly think that he doesn't read everything, because he knows that he would find something to dispute he opinions and statements.
your post is a perfect example...so is his response to the UL scandal
He retains a sort of "plausible deniability"
Bilas reminds me of an aggressive, sanctimonious appellate court lawyer. It's never about whether the person convicted committed some horrific crime. It's a lot of self-righteous posturing about procedure and process and arcane codicils in the law.
That's fine. There is a reason the system is set up that way. But his job is TO BE A COMMENTATOR ABOUT THE STATE OF COLLEGE BASKETBALL. He's not UNC's lawyer. He's supposed to be an important voice on what is right and what is wrong in the sport. The fact that he never even acknowledges that Rashad McCants being on North Carolina's Dean's List during a title run is corrupt, or that Julius Peppers should never have been eligible for football or basketball, reveals how far from his role he has strayed.
As for his strident attachment to the argument that you can't punish UNC because non-athletes took the classes, that's as ludicrous as saying that if a collection of thieves figured out how to rig an ATM to spew out $2,000 when you asked for $20 that you couldn't punish them because some random people also got the pay outs.
And again, where is the morality? Hey Jay, if your kid came home and said, 'I got all As because we figured out a way to cheat the university computer' Would your answer be, 'well, that's fine as long as some other kids also got fake grades.' I hope not. It doesn't matter what non-athletes did. The NCAA oversees what athletes do.
That's fine. There is a reason the system is set up that way. But his job is TO BE A COMMENTATOR ABOUT THE STATE OF COLLEGE BASKETBALL. He's not UNC's lawyer. He's supposed to be an important voice on what is right and what is wrong in the sport. The fact that he never even acknowledges that Rashad McCants being on North Carolina's Dean's List during a title run is corrupt, or that Julius Peppers should never have been eligible for football or basketball, reveals how far from his role he has strayed.
As for his strident attachment to the argument that you can't punish UNC because non-athletes took the classes, that's as ludicrous as saying that if a collection of thieves figured out how to rig an ATM to spew out $2,000 when you asked for $20 that you couldn't punish them because some random people also got the pay outs.
And again, where is the morality? Hey Jay, if your kid came home and said, 'I got all As because we figured out a way to cheat the university computer' Would your answer be, 'well, that's fine as long as some other kids also got fake grades.' I hope not. It doesn't matter what non-athletes did. The NCAA oversees what athletes do.
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So the NCAA doesn't have a specific rule for this, huh?
Well, I just checked my company's employee handbook. It says absolutely NOTHING in there about me not being able to go in and piss on my boss's desk. Must be OK.
I'll let you know how it turns out. I'm sure when I point out that it's not addressed in the employee handbook that I won't be punished. But, of course, they will then close that loophole.
Here I go!
Well, I just checked my company's employee handbook. It says absolutely NOTHING in there about me not being able to go in and piss on my boss's desk. Must be OK.
I'll let you know how it turns out. I'm sure when I point out that it's not addressed in the employee handbook that I won't be punished. But, of course, they will then close that loophole.
Here I go!
Basketball player wants to immediately transfer but is denied
Bilas: NCAA must do what is right for the athlete and allow the transfer.
UNC fails to educate its athletes for over 20 years.
Bilas: UNC shouldn't be punished for guiding athletes into phony classes for 20 years. I don't really care about educating athletes as long as I am getting paid.
Right Jay...how is that hypocrisy sandwich? You and the UNC PR team go over your talking points before hitting the radio show circuit?
Bilas: NCAA must do what is right for the athlete and allow the transfer.
UNC fails to educate its athletes for over 20 years.
Bilas: UNC shouldn't be punished for guiding athletes into phony classes for 20 years. I don't really care about educating athletes as long as I am getting paid.
Right Jay...how is that hypocrisy sandwich? You and the UNC PR team go over your talking points before hitting the radio show circuit?
Maybe in your mind. UNC had over 20 years of fake classes and Diplomas. He defends them. UofL had hookers for 16 year old kids and he defends them. You can tie your ship to him if you want. I don't hate him at all. I just don't put any credibility into a guy that defends schools that allow this to go on.
Bilas always thinks he's the smartest voice that needs to be heard and takes full advantage of his position to sway public opinion to his liking.
The NCAA has already set precedent by penalizing Penn State for was essentially a criminal situation outside their prevue.
In the UNCheat case we have actual evidence that academic fraud was perpetrated in order to keep athletes eligible. And eligibility is definitely something that the NCAA can enforce. The only question remains is...will they?
In the UNCheat case we have actual evidence that academic fraud was perpetrated in order to keep athletes eligible. And eligibility is definitely something that the NCAA can enforce. The only question remains is...will they?
I still don't get it, don't go to class, imaginary professors, and you still get passing grades, what is right with this? And if the NCAA has to get involved to stop it, they should, it's cheating.
He's still smarting over the UK Fan Threats/Higgins non-story. He was on here spouting that moral superiority crap then as well. He trashed everyone that came down on the UK fans side of that argument and now is defending Bilas' very weak position on UNCheat. Kinda makes you wonder.
If you give a University the ability to claim whatever they want in terms of academic authority over what they constitute as an acceptable class or grade, then can't you do the same for what is an acceptable entrance test score (SAT/ACT). You would be creating the ultimate loop-hole, allowing schools to create classes with the sole purpose of keeping their star athletes eligible with minimal actual work. "Yes, we offer a Life Skills degree, where you learn how to count to 10, sign your name on a round ball, slip a pole-dancer a bill in her g-string, create your own signature move/dance, determine if a girl like you for your money/status, and even write a check.". "But it's ok, we offer the class to all students, even though it's a pretty useless degree in real life, so few real students take these classes."
Reductio ad absurdum
Let's start with the premise that the NCAA can't punish UNC*** because whether the class is legitimate or not because it is an academic matter outside of the NCAA's purview.
Let's start with the premise that the NCAA can't punish UNC*** because whether the class is legitimate or not because it is an academic matter outside of the NCAA's purview.
- Any college can offer any course and it would be valid with said stipulation if they are like UNC**** and have no morals and scruples.
- Any university that attempted to make student athletes take legitimate courses would be at an unfair competitive position given the NCAA's minimum GPA requirement but the NCAA does have a minimum GPA requirement and has punished other schools for not meeting it.
- Any university like the discredited UNC**** that decides bogus classes are the way to go is getting millions of dollars and providing only room and board and a minimum level of medical care in exchange for the millions of $$$ they get for their athletic teams. Since the university is clearly providing them less than minimum wage for their efforts, the SA's should be able to organize and sue said "academic institutions for fraud. The UNC****'s of the world and the NCAA should have to negotiate fairly with the SA union or be prosecuted for violation of the NLRB.
- Documented in the Wainstein Report that some classes were opened specifically for SA's
- Violated their own rules on number of self study classes you could take toward a degree
- Violated rules over who could take the classes
- Attempted to keep Frat boys out
- Fired employees for having those "legitimate" classes.
- UNC**** shut down the classes due to academic review and to keep accredication
Jay, you have turned into such a UNCheat ass kisser its a wonder your allowed back on Puke's campus !! I mean hell give it up Jay, we all know you are told what you have to say !!
Instead of writing my name out, just tag me, so I can be notified, as I almost missed this. The problem isn't this, it's proving the course was fraudulent. It was an accredited course. Now, maybe there were some grades changed, in which case, it definitely violates that bylaw. If there is sufficient evidence that the class was made fraudulent with the intention of keeping athletes eligible, then the NCAA needs to wait no longer and just punish UNC. My guess is that there isn't as much evidence as we would like.
Look, I wish they would get the death penalty, which in my opinion should happen. The NCAA on the other hand, has to be more diligent than I in matters like this. The NCAA is corrupt, and maybe that is what the real hold-up is. Maybe they are trying to find a way to get rid of all the evidence, which I wouldn't put past them. There is little doubt that UNC has been corrupt for years, but it is a little like the mafia. There is no doubt the crimes they committed, but fear and/or proof generally kept them out of prison.
Nothing is right about it. The question isn't about what's right, it's about what is legal (according to NCAA laws). I see a lot of people talking about just setting up a fraudulent class. UNC did something quite different, unless I missed something, and maybe I did. From what I have seen, the problem is the classes existed and were accredited before this scam. Therefore, they would not be fraudulent. Instead, it appears that UNC took an accredited major and turned it into a series of ultra easy classes. Now, if that is right, it will be a whole lot harder to prove that the classes were fraudulent, even if common sense tells you they were.
his argument is the exact just ridiculous. they are trying to steer the conversation to "we will be letting the NCAA dictate courses" while ignoring the fact that there is substantial proof that athletes were directed to these course and grades were changed. last time I checked those 2 things have always been against NCAA rules. I mean to the UNC fan it is totally cool to not let a kid take some extra food back to his dorm room but let a university just give kids A's in courses to keep them playing
I am betting there are no bylaws for child molestation but ask Penn State how that turned out for them!!
UNC admitted they were fake and the report they paid for showed they were fake. I am not sure what more we can ask for...
After the UL smack down, I figured the pro UNC folks were going to start bolstering UNC's position that the NCAA cannot treat UNC as harshly as UL.
I'm tire of Bilas on this - because quite frankly , this isn't a cause he has supported at other schools. He only became passionate about this when UNC was on the chopping block.
I'm tire of Bilas on this - because quite frankly , this isn't a cause he has supported at other schools. He only became passionate about this when UNC was on the chopping block.
LMAO.
Something tells me Blue Bomb is going to need bail money.
For the sake of his efforts to prove THIS point, I will put up a portion of it.
All alumni of Duke University can kiss my Kentucky white arse including the biggest and 2nd biggest alumni... Mr. Bilas and Mr. Matt 'KSR' Jones.
Don't catch me drunk cuz Duke fans take beatings without question. Just kidding...
Don't catch me drunk cuz Duke fans take beatings without question. Just kidding...
Wrong. SACS found that far from being "accredited" the classes in question were, in fact, fraudulent and that's why uncheat was PLACED ON PROBATION. Uncheat admitted as much, and agreed to "cease and desist", and thereby avoided the academic death penalty of loss of accreditation.
This whole thing reminds me of the old Soviet block trick of government doublespeak and ridiculous propaganda. Makes "spin" look tame.
The problem with Jay's argument is that this is UNPRECEDENTED!!! Thats all the NCAA has to say. and its the truth. There were no rules in place for this kind of cheating.
and by the way... Both of Bilas' bosses are UNC alums ... Never ever trust what he says about UNC because he has an Agenda... and since the word agenda doesnt have an S..... here are the $$$$ instead
and by the way... Both of Bilas' bosses are UNC alums ... Never ever trust what he says about UNC because he has an Agenda... and since the word agenda doesnt have an S..... here are the $$$$ instead
The NCAA is extremely strict on the High School transcript and Admission test scores for entry into their Div. 1 schools.
The inference Jay is trying to sell everyone, is once that admission standard has been established and the student-athlete enters school, the said athletic dept. has ZERO responsibility for the legitimacy of the classes? HOGWASH!!!
If that's the case these coaches also need to stop getting bonus' for academic accomplishments, especially when they are fraudulent like the UNCHEAT case!
Cheating is cheating, just because one finds a way to do it, that's never been done before shouldn't make it legal.
Jay Bilas needs to begin his rants by disclosing his HUGE conflict of interest.
He's employed (and set to make millions more )by a UNC alumn. Whether or not he's allowed an opinion is beside the point. He cannot be a voice of credibility on this case.
He's employed (and set to make millions more )by a UNC alumn. Whether or not he's allowed an opinion is beside the point. He cannot be a voice of credibility on this case.
